Guns Don't Make Us Free. Period.

There are arguments for 2nd amendment but this whole hoohaa about stopping tyranny isn't one of them. Armed citizens won't do anything to stop tyranny and US is a shining example of that.

Originally posted by GunzCoty
reply to post by vor78

 

Please read my post above you.
What more do you want?

I don't think there's anything wrong with the background check system itself, I just think we need to be sure that the reporting requirements into that system are adequate, especially with regards to the mentally ill. It may be fine as it is, but I think we need to be sure that people aren't slipping through the cracks for whatever reason.

reply to post by PsykoOps


The US is the general bringer of Tyrany. Owning or not owning a gun will not change that. Guns in the wrong hands ends lives FACT. In fact guns have very little other uses than bringing death. Why some people are so keen on holding onto that is mystifying.

reply to post by michael1983l

So if owning a gun keeps all of these things from happening, why are you no free'er living in the USA today than say if you compare with Ireland, France, the UK or Japan. The citizens of these countries are being treated no differently to US citizens and fire arms are illigal so your whole point is mute as far as I can see.

In America we retain the right (and means) to ensure that freedom. I can walk out of my front door tomorrow and buy 100 guns an 1,000,0000 rounds of ammo without a problem...I can TOMORROW...next year is a different story.

The citizens of those countries are susceptible to the whims of their government and have no final recourse; they've already been neutered. Its no surprise that people who have never experienced CONTROL over their government would argue that there is no difference.

You don't miss what you've never had...

Obama is speaking right now hear we go!!!!

reply to post by michael1983l


I'm pro gun. For reasons that doesn't involve the whole bs. about stopping tyranny. I should've made that clearer

Originally posted by madenusa
Obama is speaking right now hear we go!!!!

I’m sure he’s saying something intelligent!

reply to post by vor78


I could be perfectly healthy when I apply for my gun license, but mental illness can occur at any time and generally cannot be predicted. Doing a background check is merely a snapshot of time that is irrelevant the following week. Whilst guns are legal and so readily available, people with Mental Health problems and people with general irresponsibility and disregard for life will always get their hands on them.

Originally posted by michael1983l
reply to post by PsykoOps

 

The US is the general bringer of Tyrany. Owning or not owning a gun will not change that. Guns in the wrong hands ends lives FACT. In fact guns have very little other uses than bringing death. Why some people are so keen on holding onto that is mystifying.

So Michael do you believe the officials of your government are made of a finer sort of clay than you and your fellow citizens? Do you deny that throughout history more have died at the hands of tyrannical governments than at the hands of a sick individual?

It's a simple issue at hand, safety or liberty.

reply to post by MsAphrodite


Governments can only perputrate tyranny if it has the support of enouigh of its citizens to do so. That is a completely seperate issue. I am however a little confused as to how you can relate legalized gun ownership as the bringer of "safety". All you need to look at there is statistics of gun related crime and gun related death when compared with a nation that has strict gun ownership laws. More people owning guns = more chance of being in the firing line as far as I am concerned.

Originally posted by seabag

Originally posted by madenusa
Obama is speaking right now hear we go!!!!

I’m sure he’s saying something intelligent!

He is really using the Kids in his speech he said we have no choice but do what ever power they can..
HE used Jesus in his speech were f.......ked

reply to post by PsykoOps

I'm pro gun. For reasons that doesn't involve the whole bs. about stopping tyranny. I should've made that clearer

BS? Really??

When the Revolutionary War ended and the Americans were making their new Constitution, they were very aware of the need for self-defense. They still needed protection from Indians and they wanted to be able to defend themselves from any external enemies that might arise. They were also very aware that the new government they were creating could turn corrupt and they wanted to defend themselves from it if necessary.

After all, Thomas Jefferson had written in the Declaration of Independence that if a government failed to protect its citizens and instead became the enemy, the citizens had the right to overthrow it! So one reason the citizens wanted to be armed was not just for defense against external enemies. They wanted protection from their own government!

link

Guess what? I want protection from the NEW government, and the 2nd amendment is STILL IN PLACE! Whether you agree with that or NOT the only reason the 2nd is still alive is because of people who recognized the threat you dismiss.

Originally posted by michael1983l
reply to post by vor78

 

I could be perfectly healthy when I apply for my gun license, but mental illness can occur at any time and generally cannot be predicted. Doing a background check is merely a snapshot of time that is irrelevant the following week. Whilst guns are legal and so readily available, people with Mental Health problems and people with general irresponsibility and disregard for life will always get their hands on them.

It certainly can, I don't disagree with that. There's no way you can eliminate risk entirely.

reply to post by seabag

Yes it is complete and utter bs. If it worked as intented then you wouldn't have a government that can kill it's own citizens without trials, can send people to other countries for torture and all the other stuff that is all well known to the general public. Not to mention the fact that citizens if they'd choose to revolt with their peashooters wouldn't do anything against a government that has tanks, aircraft, drones, nukes etc.

reply to post by vor78


It's more than that. Every time you vote for "safety" you give up more of your liberty.

reply to post by michael1983l


Criminals will always have guns. If the laws prohibit guns, the only ones who will be unarmed are the honest citizens, who will no longer have protection against criminals.

In the event of riots, or social upheaval, or any kind of disaster, it is comforting to know that you can defend your loved ones. If you do not live in a country with that freedom, then you do not understand.

In the US, owning a gun is a right, and almost everyone I know owns them. It gives me comfort to know that if some other country tried to invade, or if the government decided to unnecessarily invoke some kind of martial law, that the citizens could defend themselves. You can't understand what that means either, if you live in a country where this is not a fact of life.

Gun crimes are actually very rare when considered in proportion to how many people own guns. It is people committing the crimes, not the guns.

If it worked as intented then you wouldn't have a government that can kill it's own citizens without trials, can send people to other countries for torture

Owning guns doesn't make you free- not needing guns, that's freedom.

Having a (somewhat) functional society is what makes us free and prosperous, but that's being destroyed by the same people who are clinging to their right to shoot people.

reply to post by BlueAjah


And what you have just said there is just what has been indoctrined into you since birth by your gun loving parents. I have never owned a gun, I have never been threatened by a gun and I have certainly never needed a gun. That goes for EVERYONE I know. When guns are completely illigal, even the criminals struggle to get hold of them and in general the criminals tend to use them on each other most of the time anyways. You will never understand what it feels like to live without fear of being shot by one of your fellow Citizens. I would not swap our laws for yours if your paid me a million dollars. The USA and the word FREEDOM is just used as a tool to get you to do what your government wants.

reply to post by michael1983l

I could be perfectly healthy when I apply for my gun license, but mental illness can occur at any time and generally cannot be predicted. Doing a background check is merely a snapshot of time that is irrelevant the following week. Whilst guns are legal and so readily available, people with Mental Health problems and people with general irresponsibility and disregard for life will always get their hands on them.

So because you feel the need to be protected from yourself you’re willing to give up your freedom?

Then you deserve neither!!!!

You're absolutely right, in none of those instances did gun owners do anything with their firearms.
They did not use them in anger
They did not use them while it still appeared the judicial system was functional and that we could vote in new people if the old ones proved crooked.
You've just proven that gun owners are a very responsible class and will use every other option before resorting to violence.
Despite overwhelming evidence we live under a corporate/banking oligarchy gun owners are still not ready to take up arms against their government.

Criminals do whatever they want regardless of the law, that's why they're criminals.
Therefore they live beyond laws and any new attempts at legislating their behavior will be met with a resounding "no, we won't comply".

All new laws will do is to disarm those same 10's of millions of responsible gun owners who still agree to live by the law and who have never broken the law.
These people deserve your respect for their restraint, not your admonition for failing to react with violence.

Why do people only rag on America for having guns?
Switzerland has more per capita than we do yet nobody wants to take theirs away.