Guns Don't Make Us Free. Period.

Originally posted by khimbar

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
Do you have any idea what an insurmountable task it would be to disarm American, there are people with arsenals, and I imagine more then we realize.

Genuine question I have here, one I've been thinking about.

'I'm president. I announce a 1000% tax on all arms sales and ammunition. It's effective immediately and I use one of those convenient presidential powers I've given myself to do it.

At the same time I offer to buy back all guns at twice the current market value, for cash or for three times value with US bonds'.

Would that go some way to doing it? Maybe a fraction?

Immediately the criminals on the black market arms sales would throw you a party for making them the new billionaires. Ammunition is easy to produce privately as well.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by micmerci

 

Humans have always been entrusted with power over life and death. The only question that remains is WHICH humans?

The ones who are most useful to the guys giving the power.

Now that's the scary truth.

I bet your thoughts would change in an instant if 3 thugs broke into your home and held you down while they raped and murdered your loved ones while you watched. That exact thing has happened many times. Society is broken, law abiding citizens need protection unfortunately. Unless you put an armed guard on all sides of every home/business etc you can not be safe. 50 years ago things were different but even then bad things happened. I did not see England complaining when America supplied them weapons and ammo to save them from certain destruction and domination. It was at our peril that we did so.

reply to post by micmerci


True. So I only buy back the guns that are registered to you.

The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced they won't 'come for the guns'. Like every other weapon they have and use, it'll be done with economics.

They'll price them out. Bit by bit. Nothing in the Second Amendment says everyone has to be able to afford them.

I have held my tongue past these threads which are becoming so numerous and repetitive that they should have numbers assigned to them.

Anyway...the entirety of the subject is becoming a bit of a flame for the moth of insanity.

I personally am sick of repeating the same talking points over and over again to what appears to be a def crowd. You can rationally and logically destroy every talking point someone may have...but they will continue on with those same exact talking points...as if you never said anything, as if they are educating you, and as if its the first time you have ever heard it...

lot of people regurgitating lots of the same stuff at people who aren't listening...it begins to look like a group of insane people stuck in a cycle of talking to themselves...because there sure as hell isn't any "progress" being made here...there is no compromise...this isn't even dialogue...it's gone south of a discussion and has all the hallmarks of lunacy.

its all about the guns....its all about the guns...

people who aren't even in this country keep repeating this completely ignorant of the FACT and REALITIES of the world...the facts that these atrocities happen in "gun free zones" goes COMPLETELY over their heads...the facts that gun laws/regulation has increased phenomenally over the past 30 years and consequently so has the occurrence of mass shootings...but they glaze over this factual reality...they dismiss it, it doesn't enter their brain it bounces completely off their head and the continue to make the same fantasy land points over and over again...

they fail to see the failure of gun laws and instead adopt a completely fantasy filled illusion of a world where the gun was defeated by laws...they are in essence trying to un-invent the gun...and are so miserably hopeless to see that as an sad exercise in futility...

They are so miserably desperate for a "solution" that they would do the first irrational thing that comes to their mind JUST so they can say...."we'll at least were doing something about it..." and in the criticism of their illogical, irrational insanity they default to "should we just do nothing??" as if the absolutely only option on the table is an exercise in futility...eliminating the gun.

You can present any number of rational, logical, and most of all PRACTICAL solutions to the issue and they will nod their heads and go back to talking about the ever so fabled boogie man..."the gun"...

I find it funny when people demonize the gun as the culprit behind the worlds problems yet expect and are relieved when people with guns (police) show up and save the day...

I just can't handle the insanity of it all...

but to the OP...you are right...guns don't make us free..just as they don't kill people. A gun is a tool and its use is determined by people...It takes action by someone behind that gun that makes it a tool for freedom...or a tool of oppression.

outlawing them will strictly make them a tool for oppression though and of that I can guarantee you. At that stage freedom-fighters would all be criminals.

reply to post by milominderbinder


Yer right but they sure help ya sleep a little more safely at night....

I see what the OP is saying, even with all the well armed citizens in america the government hasn`t been afraid to deprive americans of their rights and trample on their liberties.The government doesn`t seem too worried about all the armed citizens in amerca.

reply to post by Sly1one


well said. I agree with you, but alas,

this will go on and on........like election season brings out the elect-my-tards, shootings bring out the ban-the-gun-tards...

reply to post by Tardacus


but the provisions for an armed populace aren't related to revolution. Not exactly. The STATE authority *may call upon citizens in an extreme case of emergency, hence the state militias, but really gun ownership is for personal protection AND to uphold the responsibility of being trained enough to be conscripted into a standing army.

It is not that we will start a revolution, it is that lets say an earth shattering danger loomed and law enforcement and national guard failed or failed to respond , the state could call upon the citizenry to do their duties.

There is the reserved power of the state government having a sort of force to counter the central federal government by way of state militias, but really it is about personal safety.

Basically Americans are not free so what the hell lets add more laws for something that is already covered with the law making murder illegal.

That is some flawed "logic".

Tearing down the Constitution one line at a time is what it's really about. The best thing to ever happen to humanity is the Constitution. Destroy it at the worlds peril.

reply to post by milominderbinder


You are making statements like they are fact yet you have no evidence to back up your statements. The NRA has done more than you will ever know to support our 2nd Amendment rights. You are on a Conspiracy site claiming that gun owners have done nothing to bring light to the examples you have made but, bringing light to those situations is just that....a conspiracy. It is a fine line an organization like the NRA has to walk between, supporting our rights and not sounding like raving lunatics.

You sir are projecting; projecting an opinion that holds no ground based on a company you know little to nothing about.,

Originally posted by YAHUWAH SAVES
reply to post by milominderbinder

 

Yer right but they sure help ya sleep a little more safely at night....

Not really.

As a middle class white guy from Wisconsin who once was relocated to COMPTON, CA for an entire year for my work...I can honestly say that I have not at any time in my entire life felt I needed a gun to take a nap.

Never. Not once.

Originally posted by Tardacus
I see what the OP is saying, even with all the well armed citizens in america the government hasn`t been afraid to deprive americans of their rights and trample on their liberties.The government doesn`t seem too worried about all the armed citizens in amerca.

EXACTLY!!

Let me rephrase the post in a more direct manner...maybe that will help.

"If guns keep us "free"…then why are we all slaves??"

....It's like a guy with lung cancer crediting the cigarettes to keeping the cancer away. It just doesn't make any sense at all and it stands in stark contrast to any and all observable reality.

Originally posted by milominderbinder

Originally posted by Tardacus
I see what the OP is saying, even with all the well armed citizens in america the government hasn`t been afraid to deprive americans of their rights and trample on their liberties.The government doesn`t seem too worried about all the armed citizens in amerca.

EXACTLY!!

Let me rephrase the post in a more direct manner...maybe that will help.

"If guns keep us "free"…then why are we all slaves??"

....It's like a guy with lung cancer crediting the cigarettes to keeping the cancer away. It just doesn't make any sense at all and it stands in stark contrast to any and all observable reality.

The answer to that is: We are slaves because we think we must have a damn political leader telling us how to live our lives and prosper as a society. The president/politician can't do a damn thing but talk. We are the once who actually have to make things happen. But still we blame the damn politicians/president for all the things we do for them. We should all wake up and see that its actually we who keep ourselves looked up in a bloody prison.

Originally posted by Sly1one
but to the OP...you are right...guns don't make us free..just as they don't kill people. A gun is a tool and its use is determined by people...It takes action by someone behind that gun that makes it a tool for freedom...or a tool of oppression.

outlawing them will strictly make them a tool for oppression though and of that I can guarantee you. At that stage freedom-fighters would all be criminals.

OK...so...why not advocate a compromise of some sorts? Why not trade a demilitarization of our civilian armaments in exchange for a demilitarization of the police and DHS? Maybe no more AR-15 combat rifles and whatnot in exchange for no more chemical weapons, tasers and drones? We give eye tests when we renew our driver's licenses because it's dangerous to have people who can't see a damn thing drive a car. Isn't it equally dangerous for someone who is blind as a bat to be using a semi-automatic rifle where the only thing standing between them and firing off 100 rounds is the 2 seconds in between changes of the magazine when it runs out??

If a medical doctor can call the DMV and say "Look...Grandpa just isn't fit to drive anymore because he's damn near blind and deaf...and he's well on his way to latter stages of dementia to boot"...shouldn't THE SAME RULE HOLD TRUE for firearms? Maybe I'm wrong...but as I understand it the only way a Dr. or shrink has any say about such things is if the guy actually threatens somebody. However, if Bob Smith comes in and the Doc sees a 4 year long degeneration of mental faculties where he's becoming increasingly distraught with every visit...they just pat him on the back and tell him to come back soon. Remember when everybody (myself included) also blamed the parents of those kids that went nuts in Columbine because we found it implausible that any parent who is remotely aware would be oblivious that their teenager is stockpiling weapons? Shouldn't the same thing kind of hold true when the Doc sees someone who is clearly losing their grip on reality?

....you know why we WON'T have a grown up discussion about these things as a country?? Because you let the NRA convince you that it's Team Tie-Dye vs. Team RealTree and that anybody at all cares about your hunting rifle. Just mention the WORDS "gun control" and people start screaming incoherencies about the Constitution they never bothered to read instead of acting like a grown-up who realizes that something is terribly, terribly wrong when we have all these mass killing sprees THAT NO OTHER FIRST-WORLD COUNTRY ON EARTH SEEMS TO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH.

Originally posted by spy66

Originally posted by milominderbinder

Originally posted by Tardacus
I see what the OP is saying, even with all the well armed citizens in america the government hasn`t been afraid to deprive americans of their rights and trample on their liberties.The government doesn`t seem too worried about all the armed citizens in amerca.

EXACTLY!!

Let me rephrase the post in a more direct manner...maybe that will help.

"If guns keep us "free"…then why are we all slaves??"

....It's like a guy with lung cancer crediting the cigarettes to keeping the cancer away. It just doesn't make any sense at all and it stands in stark contrast to any and all observable reality.

The answer to that is: We are slaves because we think we must have a damn political leader telling us how to live our lives and prosper as a society. The president/politician can't do a damn thing but talk. We are the once who actually have to make things happen. But still we blame the damn politicians/president for all the things we do for them. We should all wake up and see that its actually we who keep ourselves looked up in a bloody prison.

edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)

Precisely. That's why it doesn't matter if you have a gun or not. You can't shoot your way out of your own self-imposed mental incarceration.

Originally posted by jimmiec
Tearing down the Constitution one line at a time is what it's really about.

Reagan started doing that with the War the Drugs....and gun owners did NOTHING ABOUT IT AT ALL. Wake up...THERE IS NO CONSTITUTION ANYMORE and there hasn't been one for AT LEAST 32 YEARS AND ARGUABLY A LOT LONGER.

The best thing to ever happen to humanity is the Constitution.

Really? I tend to favor the invention of fire...but whatever floats your boat.

Originally posted by neo96
Basically Americans are not free so what the hell lets add more laws for something that is already covered with the law making murder illegal.

That is some flawed "logic".

Not all. I'm not necessarily ADVOCATING any gun control.

I'm just pointing out that guns or no guns...you are slave either way. You are no better nor any worse off for having them because the Federal Government has not ONCE shown any hesitation in screwing with you since Nov. 22, 1963 whether you own 1 gun, 1,000 guns, or no guns at all.

reply to post by milominderbinder


Apparently someone thinks the only way to be free is to go around shooting people on sight, and their elected leaders.

If anything that shows Americans are a slave to no one meaning they could end their "oppressors" at any time of their choosing,.

And yet the don't.