Secession petitions now filed for all 50 states - Yahoo! News

Originally posted by incoserv

Originally posted by BubbaJoe
People, get a freaking grip, we do not need another civil war on this soil. My family has a very long history in North America, and have lost family members on both sides in all of our wars, up until Korea. I am a veteran, I am a liberal, and I am a marksman.

Again, the point of this discussion was not about starting a civil war. I don't see that happening.

How can the administration respond to this - as they have promised to do, since there are more than 25,000 signatories - in a way that will be constructive?

Or will they?

A few folks have actually addressed that question. Thanks.

Really 70000 signatures out of 315 Million population in the USA, that is (.02%) of the population, do you seriously think that is something the president needs to respond to, I am thinking the 45 mil (14.3%) on food stamps is far more important. But then again, it is just the liberal in me, responding to the hypocritical right wing ding bats. Sometimes the fringe really needs to grab on to what is important, or it is just fringe that blows in the breeze.

Originally posted by SG-17
reply to post by incoserv

 

I am not calling you racist. I am calling the people behind these movements and behind the conservative media (Fox News et al) racist.

That is, still, an overly broad brush. If I do agree with any of those, then I am a racist, right?

I do not deny that there are people in those movements who are racists, but there are many who disagree with the current administration, and whose disagreements have nothing to do with race.

FACT!

Originally posted by SG-17
The Declaration was a hastily thrown together statement to justify the Revolution to other nations, that is it. That is all it was ever intended to be. It is made very clear by how the government switched from the Articles of Confederation in which the States were Sovereign States to the Constitution in which the States are Federated States that the Founders thought that States needed to have limits on their powers. As well the actions of Jackson (a Second Generation Founding Father) during the Nullification Crisis and the actions of Lincoln (a Founding Father of the modern United States) during the Civil War demonstrate conclusively that both Nullification and Secession are not the rights of the States and are subsequently illegal, seditious, and treasonous.

There are principles stated in that document that were foundational to the American Revolution and, therefore, would have been foundational to the new country and it's underlying philosophical and legal principles. The fact that somebody, later, called those very principles illegal, seditious and treasonous only makes the founding of the United States of America an illegal and seditious act, and brands the founding fathers all traitors. They were all seditious traitors to somebody, I guess. I'm sure King George though they were all illegal, seditious traitors.

See, it just depends on what piece of political ground you happen to be standing on as to who's seditious and traitorous. There's an old saw that says the winners write the history books.

edit on 14-11-2012 by incoserv because: just 'cause

no offense but they cant secede and we cant over throw either all those options have been stitched closed tightly to include federal prison time. whose scared now

Originally posted by BubbaJoe
Really 70000 signatures out of 315 Million population in the USA, that is (.02%) of the population, do you seriously think that is something the president needs to respond to, I am thinking the 45 mil (14.3%) on food stamps is far more important. But then again, it is just the liberal in me, responding to the hypocritical right wing ding bats. Sometimes the fringe really needs to grab on to what is important, or it is just fringe that blows in the breeze.

Ooo, "ding bats." Yeah, that's good. Conducive to intelligent discussion. Well done, there, BubbaJoe!

Look, it's not a matter of if the president "needs" to respond. The WeThePeople project says that if more than 25,000 people sign any petition - ANY PETITION - they will respond.

Again, I'm looking to discuss what would be the best way for them to respond.

Oh, wait, I know. Just call everyone traitors and racists and dingbats, and ask 'em if they skeerd now!

Yeah, that'll do it.

Know what? I'm going to bed....

Originally posted by Druid42

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by LittleBlackEagle

 

Secession is NOT the first amendment. That's absurd, dangerous and ignorant to even suggest and people may well get killed over this stupid idea before it's over. This isn't a game and may the first Rambo here encouraging others, be the first in line to lead the charge. Otherwise? Cheap seats are cheap shots to take while others ignorantly sign their own arrest warrants.

There is NO debate to what is spelled out in plain black letter law......and if this hasn't crossed it already, it's on the RAZOR edge of it. I personally have about no respect for people who would egg on idealists to do something this ill conceived.

Title 18, Chapter 115 - United States Federal Code on Sedition / Subversion / Insurrection and Treason

We spend days debating back and forth about the nature this Government assassinates it's own citizens. NDAA and detention without charges and without appeal or hope of relief. These are all valid things.............and then go kick that same Gov't between the legs with NO way to back up the action?? Well, I guess people's lives may well depend on all the theories being WRONG. If the Government is HALF as ruthless and dangerous as people suggest, then this wasn't signing a petition....it was signing death warrants that'll just take a but of time to work their way BACK to those who so helpfully volunteered to go first.

Just a bump forward with this. You guys better go check out that link. 10 years for sedition, 20 years for advocating. Yikes. Just read the link.

Sedition and secession are two different things.

The occupy movement was a good start. The current action is also a good start. Occupy made one very big error, they did not go armed! To win they need to stand up, together, in great numbers ....... and they need to be armed. Would also be a really good move to talk to the National Guard Hierarchy and remind them who they are supposed to protect.

I would bet the police forces would take a whole new view of things if the National Guard took the occupy side.

The reason you are allowed weapons is just for this very situation. As long as you are willing to take the beatings THEY WIN.

P

reply to post by pheonix358


My hope for the resolution of this whole thing would be that the administration understand the frustration of the petitioners (and not scream words like RACIST or DING BATS), and engage in constructive dialog to address the issues that are real issues and that are causing discontent. That the kind of reaction you are talking about will be completely unnecessary.

Do I see that happening? Sadly, I don't see anybody in the country - by and large - willing to sit down and talk. That takes leadership, and in this society we neither have leaders, nor would we brook leaders if any were to appear.

No longer just 70,000,

It's now 105,000.

Blah blah blah still not a "significant number", derp de derp. Go on.

Originally posted by LightWarrior11
No longer just 70,000,

It's now 105,000.

Blah blah blah still not a "significant number", derp de derp. Go on.

It's still greater, by far, than the minimum 25,000 required. Derp de derp.

The administration established the website. The administration placed the threshold of significance at 25,000. I didn't. They felt that if 25,000 signed, it was worthy of attention.

Derp de derp.

edit on 15-11-2012 by incoserv because: I could

edit on 15-11-2012 by incoserv because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by incoserv

Originally posted by LightWarrior11
No longer just 70,000,

It's now 105,000.

Blah blah blah still not a "significant number", derp de derp. Go on.

It's still greater, by far, than the minimum 25,000 required. Derp de derp.

The administration established the website. The administration placed the threshold of significance at 25,000.

Derp de derp.

edit on 15-11-2012 by incoserv because: (no reason given)

Don't copy my derp bro.

Edits and whatnot, Nevermind...

I know the threshold, and folks keep signing it.

So what's the so called.."next step"??

I said a few days ago that this would only work if it was done as a collective movement. I'll be damn if this is what happened... This can work. It could also blow up into something much bigger if people are serious.

Originally posted by LightWarrior11
Don't copy my derp bro.

Dammit, I have Tourette's Syndrome. (Seriously, I do.) Can't help it, You got me started now.

Derp.

Originally posted by Mizzijr
I said a few days ago that this would only work if it was done as a collective movement. I'll be damn if this is what happened... This can work. It could also blow up into something much bigger if people are serious.

I hope the effect is that it gets the attention of some people at the top of the food chain who can make a difference.

I guess my ultimate point is that that is the whole point of the exercise. Nobody (well, not very many people, and nobody with any sense) wants to secede.

It's like when that woman who's tired of being beaten up by that man she loves finally gets the guts to say, "Either fix this or I'm outta here." She doesn't want to leave, but she has to have some resolution.

Anybody would have to be a fool to say that there are no issues to address. The federal budget (or lack thereof) is, IMO, a big enough issue without even mentioning anything else.

reply to post by MissCoyote


I wish we could all just get along like we used to in middle school...
I wish I could bake a cake filled with rainbows and smiles and everyone would eat and be happy...

P.S. This comment is so true. Just thinking about everyone's political stances make me so worn out, because it seems like no one is willing to compromise. I mean, I can understand someone not compromisng principle. Also. I read Yahoo articles for the comment section, does anyone else do this?

I will add one last comment tonight, then I'm really going to bed:

This thing has the potential to force meaningful dialog within the political and social context of this society.

If enough people are willing to engage in meaningful, thoughtful and constructive dialog as a result of this very civil and public expression of discontent with the status quo, something good might come of it.

If all we can do is throw around pejorative epithets, then we're screwed.

Sadly, I'm not sure that, as a society, we are capable of that meaningful, thoughtful and constructive dialog.

G'night.

Originally posted by incoserv
I will add one last comment tonight, then I'm really going to bed:

This thing has the potential to force meaningful dialog within the political and social context of this society.

If enough people are willing to engage in meaningful, thoughtful and constructive dialog as a result of this very civil and public expression of discontent with the status quo, something good might come of it.

If all we can do is throw around pejorative epithets, then we're screwed.

Sadly, I'm not sure that, as a society, we are capable of that meaningful, thoughtful and constructive dialog.

G'night.

edit on 15-11-2012 by incoserv because: clarification

It's yet another piece of political theater

These same people sat by while the debt and the liberty
Bending ideas...

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
People have wondered for years and speculated how we could ever go from a peaceful and quiet way of life like we enjoy right now to a police state or oppressed society. Well... There you have it, we now know HOW that is likely to happen.

I hope the people drop kicking Uncle Sam in the family jewels with this are willing to fight with all they have to back it....because if Uncle takes it the least bit seriously, it'll take all that and more just to stay breathing for those being chased.

Remember Tienanmen Square. If anyone doubts for ONE SECOND Obama wouldn't clear the National Mall with equal efficiency, I weep for the victims that will pile up at the end of the day. This is suicidal in my opinion. Writing Washington directly to say you are 100% in support of the crime of Sedition is tantamount to calling the Police Department to say you're a drug dealer who just got robbed. You'll get a response alright....and then spend years wishing you never had.

Just my thoughts on this insanity.

edit on 14-11-2012 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)

yup, everyone who signed one of those petitions are all now on the governments terrorist watch list.
None of those states will seccede but all those people will stay on the terrorist watch list.

Originally posted by DrGod
I don't think succession would work in today's society.
- snip -
I think a fair compromise would be for the government to section off an area of northern Nevada and Utah and make it a legal "rebel state", totally up for grabs with no regulations or any kind of law or funding.
The US would promise to allow trade deals and a peaceful border.
Then we can all move there and be like Mad Max or Conan.
We can all carry guns and start tribes and build villages.
We could prosper off of "anything goes" tourism.

edit on 14-11-2012 by DrGod because: (no reason given)

and on this note, i'm wondering, since all 50 states have active petitions and 10% of those 50 have reached minimum required signatures ... why don't we simply erect a fence around the occupied territory known as DC ??
declare all inhabitants foreigners/occupiers and address them as the Feds would any other ??

no trade without a treaty.
no travel without a passport for each state they intend to traverse.
(revenue generator for the states )
the list could go on and on but, if we are paying for the drones, perhaps we should employ them as the security and defense that monitors the Feds/occupiers ?

ah heck, let's just CHIP them, then we can track their every move.

they never wanted to be part of this Union, or they would be.
the treasonous activities originating from this region and its inhabitants are unparalelled in any other region of this nation. DC doesn't belong ... it never has.

until the US frees itself from the occupation, there is no level of negotiation that can suceed.

Originally posted by Tardacus

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
People have wondered for years and speculated how we could ever go from a peaceful and quiet way of life like we enjoy right now to a police state or oppressed society. Well... There you have it, we now know HOW that is likely to happen.

I hope the people drop kicking Uncle Sam in the family jewels with this are willing to fight with all they have to back it....because if Uncle takes it the least bit seriously, it'll take all that and more just to stay breathing for those being chased.

Remember Tienanmen Square. If anyone doubts for ONE SECOND Obama wouldn't clear the National Mall with equal efficiency, I weep for the victims that will pile up at the end of the day. This is suicidal in my opinion. Writing Washington directly to say you are 100% in support of the crime of Sedition is tantamount to calling the Police Department to say you're a drug dealer who just got robbed. You'll get a response alright....and then spend years wishing you never had.

Just my thoughts on this insanity.

edit on 14-11-2012 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)

yup, everyone who signed one of those petitions are all now on the governments terrorist watch list.
None of those states will seccede but all those people will stay on the terrorist watch list.

edit on 15-11-2012 by Tardacus because: (no reason given)

The idea now is to get as many people on these lists as you can. You would have reached your target when everyone is on it. Then it is about as useful as the electoral roll.

P

Originally posted by Honor93
why don't we simply erect a fence around the occupied territory known as DC ??

Just erect a fence around your state and dont let anyone or anything in or out - problem solved!

They way they will respond will simply be:

"Thank you for your petition, we will consider it."

It is a very very small % of the people from each state signing them, so they will not be considered.