Secession petitions now filed for all 50 states - Yahoo! News

reply to post by hellobruce


when you sign up for the petition site they ask for your first and last name and valid email......they do not show the last name because it may place that person in danger.

reply to post by retiredTxn


I agree that some changes would go a long way.

6 weeks left in the year and Congress plans on working 14 days while we have this current mess that needs to be cleaned up. It's not like they really put in a good year either. Maybe pay by the hour is required for them to light a fire. Oops, forgot most of them don't need the money.

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

Perhaps if I hadn't put my heart and soul into Occupy as a way to bring change a year ago...to watch everything fall to pieces and fail...

Kali.. I don't know what happened to you. I honestly don't. When I first knew you last year you were energetic, passionate, positive and bright. Now all that has turned dark and ugly. I can't recall the last message I've read of yours that was in any way light or uplifting? The costs of taking the stands we all choose, I suppose. Still, it's been a sad thing to watch over the months.

The only fail, has been on your part. You're afraid and you're willing to accept authority where it has no place because of it. You over-reacted with fear of blood baths that never happened... you were so sure a cop was going to kill someone during the evictions and larger protests. You outright begged people to back-down. Winning back our Liberties will not come with pleading and begging on your knees to the very people that took them away.

We need to clear up something here. I am an American. That doesn't mean I'm an American Citizen when it suits me...or when they piss me off, I can root for the destruction of the very nation I love. It means I've a citizen through GOOD AND BAD. It means, when this nation is broken, I look to help FIX it...not destroy it. I left Occupy because the cause of change became the cause of destruction and at this point, I'm as likely to fight against them as I am to stand with them on ANYTHING. They've become as much my enemy as an American as they have any sort of solution to anything.

Now, I had advised caution...I have damn well asked people to be careful and consider what consequences might be. A Military Vet last year put it best in a message here. IF a U.S. civilian unit encounters a U.S. or similarly trained Military unit, the result will be totall anhialation of the civilians and WITHOUT EVEN QUESTIONING DETAILS. We have a lot of people here living in total fantasy land and Occupy is over-populated with dreamers and delusional romantics. When you, Kali, know what it feels like to pick the damned brains of another human being off your shirt because a shotgun blew off what used to be their head a few feet from you, THEN tell me about courage...and discretion as the better part of valor with judgement applied. Until then......you know academic theory of what you're talking about....but at this rate, everyone will learn a bloody hard lesson soon. I'll weep when the day comes too....because it never had to.

You are over-reacting now. You are not witnessing a brewing civil war or a brewing bloody exodus from the USA. You are witnessing a temper tantrum. You are witnessing a five year old child tell it's parent's it's running away because it doesn't like their rules.

Perhaps I am overreacting. It's possible that the entire concept of law and order is basically negotiable now....so the fact this is on the HAIR LINE of violating one of the most serious laws any nation has....may be totally irrelevant in the long term. Then again....the penalty for Sedition or fomenting Insurrection is life or death, literally. I'll pass on THAT risk for ABSOLUTELY NOTHING GAINED. Thanks anyway.

Now, you want to play revolutionary and see what Che and Fidel did when they played this game. Thats fine... but don't even think about questioning the patriotism, courage or motivation of other Americans who choose NOT to go down that insane path with you. Change MUST come but change through DIRECT CONFRONTATION with an opponent who simply has no possibility of losing is called losing the war before the first battle is joined.

Sun Tzu wrote a little book on the topic...I've forced my way through it now twice. Ever read it? You may want to before you go back out on the street to face the authorities. I can promise you many if not MOST of those commanding the forces that you'll be fighting HAVE read it and within those pages are the very reasons why Occupy failed...and this will to.

Fight smart....NOT loud. Prison is FULL of loud people....History is written post-conflict by the smart ones. Everyone will have the chance to pick those sides soon enough...Why are you and others so anxious for the bloodshed to start, anyway? It IS coming....be patient...you'll have enough to last 2 lifetimes before this is over. We all will. There is no need to hurry the process along.

every court in the united states has ruled that secession was illegal.

even if a popular vote was held.

so much for democracy and the will of the people.

the worst part is that the courts can't even come with a reasonable explanation other than no.

it's the united states of america, comprised of 50 members. the way i see it, if the people of a particular state wish to leave and make it on their own, that personifies the spirit of america.

and if they wish to leave, wish them luck.

i think their worst fears are that a state secedes and achieves great things.

it will expose monumental corruption and lead to mass protests boarding on revolution. every state would want to secede.

I don't think succession would work in today's society.
There are too many leashes around our necks.
Back in the 1800's you didn't need to worry about your house getting reposed by banks, or car payments or electricity bills, cell phone bills, electric bank accounts, having to need money to buy food because you can't grow your own or shoot a possum.
There's too much crap keeping us down and not allowing us to go play war for a year or three.
Also, at the end of the day, most people are too buzzed and into their shows to really make sure their gun is up to date, etc..
I think a fair compromise would be for the government to section off an area of northern Nevada and Utah and make it a legal "rebel state", totally up for grabs with no regulations or any kind of law or funding.
The US would promise to allow trade deals and a peaceful border.
Then we can all move there and be like Mad Max or Conan.
We can all carry guns and start tribes and build villages.
We could prosper off of "anything goes" tourism.

Best line in the article:

Meanwhile, residents of Austin, Texas' stubbornly liberal stronghold, have petitioned the White House to allow the city to "withdraw from the state of Texas [and] remain part of the United States."

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by LittleBlackEagle

 

Secession is NOT the first amendment. That's absurd, dangerous and ignorant to even suggest and people may well get killed over this stupid idea before it's over. This isn't a game and may the first Rambo here encouraging others, be the first in line to lead the charge. Otherwise? Cheap seats are cheap shots to take while others ignorantly sign their own arrest warrants.

There is NO debate to what is spelled out in plain black letter law......and if this hasn't crossed it already, it's on the RAZOR edge of it. I personally have about no respect for people who would egg on idealists to do something this ill conceived.

Title 18, Chapter 115 - United States Federal Code on Sedition / Subversion / Insurrection and Treason

We spend days debating back and forth about the nature this Government assassinates it's own citizens. NDAA and detention without charges and without appeal or hope of relief. These are all valid things.............and then go kick that same Gov't between the legs with NO way to back up the action?? Well, I guess people's lives may well depend on all the theories being WRONG. If the Government is HALF as ruthless and dangerous as people suggest, then this wasn't signing a petition....it was signing death warrants that'll just take a but of time to work their way BACK to those who so helpfully volunteered to go first.

Just a bump forward with this. You guys better go check out that link. 10 years for sedition, 20 years for advocating. Yikes. Just read the link.

Originally posted by Advantage
reply to post by MrWendal

 

These secession petitions will go nowhere.. HOWEVER... the opening of many eyes is starting. Never know where that will lead. Id love to see a US of A renaissance...

Thank you, Advantage. That's pretty much what I was getting at in starting this thread. These petitions may not be the end all, but maybe, just maybe, a few more folks will wake up...

Originally posted by SG-17
There is no issue. There is just a superminority of sore, probably racists, losers who want to take their ball and go home.

You know, it's amazing how many people just whine racist when anything is said that does not fall in step with this administration. I don't remember anyone crying racist when someone disagreed with the Bush or Clinton or Regan administration. Stop whining and let's have some constructive, thoughtful, intelligent discussion here huh?

It's really sad when all one can do is say pointless falsehoods like this.

Originally posted by SG-17
The states in the Union are NOT sovereign states. They are federated states. Which basically makes them the same as counties within a larger state. They are just a distinct level of administration.

They DO NOT have the right to secede from the Union without the consent of a total 100% of their population and consent of all of the other states. This has been proven numerous times in our history, starting with the FOUNDING FATHERS replacing the Articles of Confederation with the Constitution.

I disagree. I think Ben Swan makes some excellent points here. (Of course, he's probably only a racists!!!!!)

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by ConspiracyNutjob

 

...To call it racism just shows you don't know what the issues are or you are willfully blind to it all.

ThirdEyeofHorus, when folks start to whine racist, it's just because they have nothing intelligent left to say. The last grasping whine of a lost mind.

Ignore 'em!

Originally posted by boncho
reply to post by incoserv

Not what the authors and signatories of the Declaration of Independence said!

 

Ah yes, and how did that all work out again?

Well, I'd say it won't work out very well if everyone just lies down and takes it.

Originally posted by roadgravel
99,000 people do not speak for the whole state of Texas. I would think the state legislature would also have to get involved.

Wow, it's up to 90,000 now?

No, 90,000 people do not speak for the whole state of Texas. But again, that is not the issue.

The White House said thaf more than 25,000 signed a petition, they would respond to it. That is the issue!!!

reply to post by incoserv


Because at the base level it is racism. It has always been racism. Some people do not like that we have a legitimate black and popular President and they are the loudest voices and the ones who have organized things like the Tea Party and now this faux "secessionist" movement.


Secession is not legal, it never has been since the ratification of the Constitution. The very act of secession is an act of treason and war against the rest of the states and the federal government.

Also the Declaration of Independence is not a legally binding document that applies to the laws of the United States.

Nullification has been proven to be illegal as well.

Right-wingers love to cry about precedence and the Founders, but it is blatantly obvious from both the Founding Fathers and from historical precedence that both Secession and Nullification are not the right of the Federated (not Sovereign) States that are the United States.

Originally posted by retiredTxn
...If people would spend as much time and energy working for real change, as they spend on frivolous efforts such as secession, there is no end to what could be accomplished...

Now, that is, perhaps, the most prescient statement in this whole thread!

I love the keyboard warriors, you lost the election, but yet you think the other side would not fight back. Obviously, from the election you are not in the majority, nor do you have the backing of the federal government. But somehow, the anonymity of the keyboard has convinced you that you are almighty. Seriously, some of you all need to educate yourselves about the civil war, some of the rest of you need to read about the tech that our military has, can you say drone strikes. Much like the civil war, if the warriors, that are on your side are honourable, they will leave the service, and come fight for your side. There are others, that with the full backing of the military will take you out.

People, get a freaking grip, we do not need another civil war on this soil. My family has a very long history in North America, and have lost family members on both sides in all of our wars, up until Korea. I am a veteran, I am a liberal, and I am a marksman.

Originally posted by SG-17
reply to post by incoserv

 

Because at the base level it is racism. It has always been racism. Some people do not like that we have a legitimate black and popular President and they are the loudest voices and the ones who have organized things like the Tea Party and now this faux "secessionist" movement.

Oh, come off it, will you? I don't care what the race of the president or anyone else is. You don't know me. You don't know what my race is. But you accuse me of being racists if I don't agree with you?

Again, that is a cheap trump card. Nobody with any integrity or sense takes it.

Originally posted by SG-17
Secession is not legal, it never has been since the ratification of the Constitution. The very act of secession is an act of treason and war against the rest of the states and the federal government.

Also the Declaration of Independence is not a legally binding document that applies to the laws of the United States.

edit on 11/14/2012 by SG-17 because: (no reason given)

No, it is not a binding legal document, but it elucidates the philosophical principles on which the binding legal documents of the republic were built, and it provide an historical and philosophical context for those documents, thereby helping anyone with an eye for and a mind toward history to understand what the framers were getting at.

reply to post by incoserv


Collectively, there are over 700,000 petition "signatures". The WH is supposedly sending out email responses those registered before making an "offical" statement.

Originally posted by BubbaJoe
People, get a freaking grip, we do not need another civil war on this soil. My family has a very long history in North America, and have lost family members on both sides in all of our wars, up until Korea. I am a veteran, I am a liberal, and I am a marksman.

Again, the point of this discussion was not about starting a civil war. I don't see that happening.

How can the administration respond to this - as they have promised to do, since there are more than 25,000 signatories - in a way that will be constructive?

Or will they?

A few folks have actually addressed that question. Thanks.

Originally posted by Druid42
reply to post by incoserv

 

Collectively, there are over 700,000 petition "signatures". The WH is supposedly sending out email responses those registered before making an "offical" statement.

Thanks. Good to hear that.

I'm really looking forward to seeing how they will respond.

reply to post by incoserv


I am not calling you racist. I am calling the people behind these movements and behind the conservative media (Fox News et al) racist.

The Declaration was a hastily thrown together statement to justify the Revolution to other nations, that is it. That is all it was ever intended to be. It is made very clear by how the government switched from the Articles of Confederation in which the States were Sovereign States to the Constitution in which the States are Federated States that the Founders thought that States needed to have limits on their powers. As well the actions of Jackson (a Second Generation Founding Father) during the Nullification Crisis and the actions of Lincoln (a Founding Father of the modern United States) during the Civil War demonstrate conclusively that both Nullification and Secession are not the rights of the States and are subsequently illegal, seditious, and treasonous.