Secession petitions now filed for all 50 states - Yahoo! News

Originally posted by boncho
If people wanted a revolution or change, they should have voted for an independent in the election. Hell, they should have rallied a campaign for "Joe the Plumber" and sent a message to the two-party system that they would not let them have complete control over politics.

I agree on principle, but I do believe that the whole electoral process was broken and out of control.

Originally posted by boncho
You don't destroy a country you rebuild from within. There isn't a country in the world that isn't affected by global interests today anyhow, so if you think separating and hoarding all your resources is going to work you are sadly mistaken.

Not what the authors and signatories of the Declaration of Independence said!

reply to post by incoserv

How long can the administration ignore this? Or can they?

They can ignore it just like they ignored

Benghazi was over a video
Fast and furious was the last guys fault.
Billions wasted on green energy was someone else's fault

etc.

They can ignore it rather easy and just spin it off an a fringe movement,.

reply to post by incoserv


I think he can just ignore it. It's ridiculous first of all. Do you pay attention to the guy with the "The End is Nigh" sign and address his concerns..

I don't know how many of these petitions are actually out there, but they need 25,000 votes to be looked at. Hardly a true sampling of how a given state feels overall. Also important to note, one petition in each state with 25,000 signatures a piece only adds up to be .4% of the total US population. Even if four times as many petitions spring up with at least 25,000 signatures.... we're still talking about maybe 2% of the population. So yeah, I think it's something that can be and should be ignored.

reply to post by neo96


And that would be sad.

I say that neither in support of nor against the petitions. If something like this matters to this many people and the people allow it to just fade away without any engagement, then the people deserve whatever comes down the pike.

Originally posted by Osiris1953
reply to post by incoserv

 

I think he can just ignore it. It's ridiculous first of all. Do you pay attention to the guy with the "The End is Nigh" sign and address his concerns..

I don't know how many of these petitions are actually out there, but they need 25,000 votes to be looked at. Hardly a true sampling of how a given state feels overall. Also important to note, one petition in each state with 25,000 signatures a piece only adds up to be .4% of the total US population. Even if four times as many petitions spring up with at least 25,000 signatures.... we're still talking about maybe 2% of the population. So yeah, I think it's something that can be and should be ignored.

Hey, they made the rule that any petition that garnered over 25,000 signatures would be addressed, buddy.

What I"m saying is, either they put up or shut up. If they follow through on the petitions that are politically expedient and ignore the ones that might be embarrassing, it just shows that the whole thing is a joke.

reply to post by charles1952


in a perfect world where the president actually cares.... i applaude and star you but in all seriousness he's one of THEM.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by LittleBlackEagle

 

They're betting their lives and everything they have...that Obama sees it precisely the same way and their call against his authority and right to lead the Union is something he not only takes no offense at....but has good humor about. If not.....He can pretty well end their futures on the spot. Ask Jose Padilla about that kind of thing. He actually did NOTHING overt. Not one actual act.....and still hasn't been charged. Still sits doing time for nothing with no sentence and no end to it.

if living by default is ones only goal, why not just go somewhere and expire quietly? i''l bet my life to defend this country from criminals, foreign and domestic and if i cannot live as my Constitution prescribed, then why bother?

Yeah.. Jose Padilla may have a few opinions about Obama seeing free speech as free when it's about HIS own future being ended. That is....if that guy ever sees free air or sunshine again....or they even bother to charge him with an offense that has some form of due process.

Oh well... I said my piece... I hope to God this isn't a thing I'm ever proven right on. If I am...it'll mean a whole lot of people suffered to get there..and they signed up for it by choice.

your piece is disheartening and mutters the will of a slave more so then a citizen of these United States. living like a slave is a far worse fate than dieing like a free human being. i don't want my kids and grandchildren to live in a country that doesn't even abide by it's own contract, laws and inalienable rights, no thanks.

reply to post by LittleBlackEagle


"It is better to die on your feet than to continue living on your knees."
~Emiliano Zapata

reply to post by neo96

I agree... Ignoring this is child's play when they could ignore Occupy actually camped in the cities and almost within direct line of sight to the White House windows. They ignore the other things you mention and blame every which way....until it's just another "mess" people are happy to call that and forget about.

This? Heck... Carney just gets out and says the Right Wing are sore losers and need to get over it. I wonder if those aren't nearly the words he'll use too. I don't feel it's remotely close to that simple but I have dozens of captures of Carney's unbelievable statements over his little tenure. He'll spin something to say it's meaningless.

** By the way guys.... Your numbers are nifty but in Mid October of 2011 at near the height of it? There were an estimate 4.2 Million people actively standing IN Occupy camps with at least part time presence. The camps covered almost every state and over a dozen nations around the world.

They laughed at that. They beat them. They maced them. They Dazzled them and they deafened them. They arrested everyone they could physically grab and they beat the movement down into irrelevance. THAT was millions..they THEY were actually on the street and standing physically to oppose this system. The public ridiculed Occupy even at a time when it could well have accomplished something.

reply to post by incoserv


Those who realize their interests are not being represented in Washington is not sad.

Those are the people who are trying to stand for something better are the ones who want to secede.

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by incoserv

 

Those who realize their interests are not being represented in Washington is not sad.

Those are the people who are trying to stand for something better are the ones who want to secede.

edit on 14-11-2012 by neo96 because: (no reason given)

I mean, it would be sad if they ignore the petitions.

Expected, but sad. Of course, the whole charade that has become the US gov't is sad...

reply to post by Osiris1953


so if u count only registered voters, than the percentage goes up, and if the petition holders start reaching out to the non voters and get them registered, how much u wanna bet the percent would be way higher, this would be a great way for the non registered voters to cast there vote. since a good portion of non voters dont vote because they dont believe in the system(not all) but most. all it takes is one spark.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by LittleBlackEagle

 

Secession is NOT the first amendment. That's absurd, dangerous and ignorant to even suggest and people may well get killed over this stupid idea before it's over. This isn't a game and may the first Rambo here encouraging others, be the first in line to lead the charge. Otherwise? Cheap seats are cheap shots to take while others ignorantly sign their own arrest warrants.

There is NO debate to what is spelled out in plain black letter law......and if this hasn't crossed it already, it's on the RAZOR edge of it. I personally have about no respect for people who would egg on idealists to do something this ill conceived.

Title 18, Chapter 115 - United States Federal Code on Sedition / Subversion / Insurrection and Treason

We spend days debating back and forth about the nature this Government assassinates it's own citizens. NDAA and detention without charges and without appeal or hope of relief. These are all valid things.............and then go kick that same Gov't between the legs with NO way to back up the action?? Well, I guess people's lives may well depend on all the theories being WRONG. If the Government is HALF as ruthless and dangerous as people suggest, then this wasn't signing a petition....it was signing death warrants that'll just take a but of time to work their way BACK to those who so helpfully volunteered to go first.

no offense but you sound awfully cowardly...What you are saying boils down to behave and do as your told or die....and you are fine with being subservient the rest of your days because you are afraid to fight against your own enslavement...

I certainly haven't seen you post any solutions that don't entail just sucking it up and dealing with the fact you aren't free...this is why I used the word cowardly....

At what point of forced servitude do you decide death is better than living under said servitude? This is why freedom is not free...

NOT because you have to pay taxes for it....NOT because you have to finance a government and army to protect it...freedom is not free because you have to constantly be willing to DIE for it...at some point you have to draw a line in the sand and say..."I am willing to give my life fighting for my freedom"...in the face of NDAA, rogue governments, dictators, etc....

You seem to know your place in the world well Wrabbit....I find it odd that you accept it though.

reply to post by incoserv


Maybe I'm just pessimistic, but I would expect an online petition to be ignored no matter what it is or how valid it is. I think the existence of the website is to placate the angry folks, not actually provide a catalyst for change. The government is going to march on no matter how much we scream... beyond that something as serious as secession from the union should be approached with more gravity than an internet petition.

If they were actually interested in secession, as in seriously wanting secession, they should be engaging their representatives and finding ways to organize the people to get behind this, and actually have a good majority of the state population on your side. If there were 3,000,000 names on a petition that would be worthy of note, yes they have said that anything over 25,000 will be addressed.... but if these people truly wanted secession they would do more than visit a website.... and again it's ridiculous.

I understand where you are coming from... it is supposed to be addressed... but I don't think it will be, and personally if I were in Obama's shoes, I wouldn't really pay this any mind.

reply to post by LittleBlackEagle

Show me a stand to take that isn't 100% pure symbolism and I'll be there ahead of you and keep a seat warm when you get there yourself.

I put my money where my mouth is once before and I'll do it again without much hesitation. I just need to know that if I go down fighting for something I believe in.....the cause and the approach was worth the loss. I need to walk into something knowing in my heart that if my last moments are to come as a part of it, I can think to myself that it was a life well spent and an end well met. When I stood with Occupy, I felt that deeply. When I didn't any longer? I left that movement, as I'd become a liability to them, not a help.

In this case? gee... If I'm in a street protest for the secessionist movement and it goes badly...like Occupy did SO MANY times...would I be able to think to myself that the cost and loss had been worth the cause it was in the name of? Hell no.... Show me a cause with *ANY* chance of success. I'll give it everything I have.

reply to post by DocHolidaze


And.. if that were to occur it would be a completely different ballgame, and in that situation I would have a different opinion. We aren't quite there yet though.

Now, I am sure, without a doubt. This is the work of a few individuals, and not the body American.

Nothing to see here. Really, I knew something was up based on what I saw on IRC. Seriously, folks, carry on. I warn you all that this is in place in order to get jollies and cause further tension in the far right ideology versus the American social mind. Trust me, when I say: Stop paying attention to this, you're being yanked.

reply to post by TheOneElectric


It is not :"far right ideology" if anything it is the antithesis of it thosewho seek to limit the power and control of Federal Government over their lives.

They use to call those people liberals in the classical sense on the other hand far right ideology as in those who believe government is their master won the election.

That also makes anyone who stands agianst the rights of the states to leave the union a right winger.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by LittleBlackEagle

 

Show me a stand to take that isn't 100% pure symbolism and I'll be there ahead of you and keep a seat warm when you get there yourself.

do you realize the revolution began with a few people just talking about it? they talked about it for many years, all along they way garnering more support for themselves. their original gripe was that they were paying a lot of money to D.C. in taxes and were not getting much in return. taxation without representation. we succeeded from england for the same reason. at the time the southern cotton plantation's were driving the economy for the entire nation, for the most part.

I put my money where my mouth is once before and I'll do it again without much hesitation. I just need to know that if I go down fighting for something I believe in.....the cause and the approach was worth the loss. I need to walk into something knowing in my heart that if my last moments are to come as a part of it, I can think to myself that it was a life well spent and an end well met. When I stood with Occupy, I felt that deeply. When I didn't any longer? I left that movement, as I'd become a liability to them, not a help.

In this case? gee... If I'm in a street protest for the secessionist movement and it goes badly...like Occupy did SO MANY times...would I be able to think to myself that the cost and loss had been worth the cause it was in the name of? Hell no.... Show me a cause with *ANY* chance of success. I'll give it everything I have.

i think what needs to be realized about this is that people are taking action. they are talking, they are realizing, they are getting off the proverbial couch. people are beginning to see how bad our fed government has become, how large, how forceful, how corrupt and how very much non representative they are. that's the victory with these petitions, not what the fed will do with them, which my guess is nothing, just like the rest of the petitions.

i don't think you are a coward, if you were you wouldn't be on ATS discussing relevant subjects of life, you would be merrily going about your day's accepting that life sucks and then you die.

this still small voice will continue to grow, it has no choice not to, because we have all been wronged and we're realizing that now. i just like to discuss it with others around me, that's how real change begins by the first person saying no, not any more.

People just love to jump on the bandwagon about this stuff, but they fail to acknowledge the fact that this isnt an issue of states wanting to secede. This is petitions that have been started by individual citizens, not the states themselves, and anyone can sign these. You can go on with the whole "the people are the state!" argument, but you know exactly what I am getting at.

Not a single one of these is a state government sponsored petition. If a state's government actually sponsored the action of requesting to remove itself from the United States, it sure as hell isnt going to start with a petition on the White House website, and there would be one hell of an uproar, far beyond anything we've ever seen.