Secession petitions now filed for all 50 states - Yahoo! News

Originally posted by SG-17
reply to post by incoserv

 

Because at the base level it is racism. It has always been racism. Some people do not like that we have a legitimate black and popular President and they are the loudest voices and the ones who have organized things like the Tea Party and now this faux "secessionist" movement.


Secession is not legal, it never has been since the ratification of the Constitution. The very act of secession is an act of treason and war against the rest of the states and the federal government.

Also the Declaration of Independence is not a legally binding document that applies to the laws of the United States.

Nullification has been proven to be illegal as well.

Right-wingers love to cry about precedence and the Founders, but it is blatantly obvious from both the Founding Fathers and from historical precedence that both Secession and Nullification are not the right of the Federated (not Sovereign) States that are the United States.

edit on 11/14/2012 by SG-17 because: (no reason given)

rather argue this nonsense, why don't you explain YOUR position to the residents of Vermont ??
vermontrepublic.org... ... or ... vermontsecession.blogspot.com...

so, how 'bout you provide a link proving your claim to "federated States" rather sovereign

Originally posted by incoserv
...A Russian senior analyst named Igor Panarin was predicting, back in 2008, that by the middle of 2010, the US would have broken up into six separate administrative regions, due to economic collapse.

Any chance he was just off by a few years?

edit on 14-11-2012 by incoserv because: added information

Yeah, and a guy from the future named Titor, I believe, claimed online that the US would have a civil war in the mid 2000's, didn't he? Any chance HE was off by just a few years?


And if you want to get REALLY tinfoil-hat about it-- These petitions were started on the whitehouse site, right? What if these were started and/or escalated by a faction of the government looking to start a pseudo-rebellion as an excuse to lock people up?

Either way... should be interesting to see how this one plays out.

Originally posted by hellobruce

Originally posted by Honor93
why don't we simply erect a fence around the occupied territory known as DC ??

Just erect a fence around your state and dont let anyone or anything in or out - problem solved!

They way they will respond will simply be:

"Thank you for your petition, we will consider it."

It is a very very small % of the people from each state signing them, so they will not be considered.

DC isn't a state, so what does mine have to do with it ?
DC is occupying territory which they annexed from 2 States.
according to the Constitution, DC has no standing. legal or otherwise to even exist.

and no, i doubt such a vague response will be issued to the public at large.
Obama likes his position far too much for that

Wow, no petitions concerning ETs

Reply to post by Honor93

Sorry mate. Natural law trumps all laws of man. Unless you believe judges trump God-given inalienable rights.

And by the way, secession from Britain was illegal, seditious, and treasonous as well.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.


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Originally posted by Shimri
Reply to post by Honor93

 

Sorry mate. Natural law trumps all laws of man. Unless you believe judges trump God-given inalienable rights.

And by the way, secession from Britain was illegal, seditious, and treasonous as well.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

 

Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

 

so, what about secession is NOT acting within the boundaries of "natural law" ??

and yes, according to British law it was, nothing else.

what does British law have to do with American secession from their own government as prescribed in the "compact" known as the Constitution ?

since the original secession from England was prefaced by this declaration, how can it apply any less today ?

www.archives.gov...
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.-- [color=amber] That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

Originally posted by BubbaJoe

Originally posted by incoserv

Originally posted by BubbaJoe
People, get a freaking grip, we do not need another civil war on this soil. My family has a very long history in North America, and have lost family members on both sides in all of our wars, up until Korea. I am a veteran, I am a liberal, and I am a marksman.

Again, the point of this discussion was not about starting a civil war. I don't see that happening.

How can the administration respond to this - as they have promised to do, since there are more than 25,000 signatories - in a way that will be constructive?

Or will they?

A few folks have actually addressed that question. Thanks.

Really 70000 signatures out of 315 Million population in the USA, that is (.02%) of the population, do you seriously think that is something the president needs to respond to, I am thinking the 45 mil (14.3%) on food stamps is far more important. But then again, it is just the liberal in me, responding to the hypocritical right wing ding bats. Sometimes the fringe really needs to grab on to what is important, or it is just fringe that blows in the breeze.

No disrespect broooooooo but you are completely wrong. It is just the start of a long line of dominoes. Wayne's World 2 is a great example of this.



These petitions came out of no where and without media talk about it, there is no promoting. Ever since then, yahoo has been covering it and the signatures have risen. Get enough people pissed off and one of them will do something stupid. Then the government will do something stupid. Then someone will scream that was my family member. Then the ultimate family support will step in and say the government has gone to far in violating their rights. Then the conspiracy group joins in and rallies everyone else. And so on and so on.

It will be easy for the start of a revolution...The only question we have to ask ourselves..............is when?

lol

Ratification of the Fed Reserve
Income Tax
The Patriot Act.
The NDAA?
Gitmo-see US Treaties and Tribunals as part of our law of the land.
Rendition
Agenda 21
Gun Control
Search without warrant
Phone and email taps
Stop and Frisk
Drones over America
Gov Fear Porn

Nope. Can't do those . . . Oh wait . . .

So in essence the US can strip search you without reason, invade your home, force you to pay income tax never fully ratified, have your tax go to a private corporation, force you to buy medical care another force to engage in giving money to private enterprise..abduct you, arrest you and even KILL you if they feel like it all without due process and some clueless morons feel we as a people are hands tied to do anything about it?

Why hide behind a Constitution that you have already burned and pissed on?

So illogical

reply to post by Shimri

first, i did no such thing or did i support those who have.

second ... i believe you are mistaken.
you said ...

and some clueless morons feel we as a people are hands tied to do anything about it?

are you sure you're responding to the correct person ?

who are these clueless morons of which you speak ?
are you professing the ppl signing the petitions are or the ppl supporting the movement as a whole or what exactly ?

more and more ppl are recognizing the simple fact that they do NOT have to "feel we as a people are hands tied to do anything about it" and that's why the signatures are increasing exponentially by the hour.

I suppose the U.S. citizens forgot we fired a king once....one of the most powerful on the planet at the time. Just took a few stern and steadfast leaders. It only takes a match to start a fire.

I just tracked something down I wanted to come back and share. First, I want to say if the numbers really balloon to make this into a political movement in it's own right...who knows? Maybe the thing that brings TPM and OWS together on a common purpose, albeit opposite long term results to each. It's a goal I've written my own threads on so I'd love to see THAT happen.

At the same time...still people talking rash ideas and crazy concepts...so this really is worth sharing. It's not something I've really heard talked about much in media as a capability the U.S. has but given the very source here, it's hardly secret any longer. Who knows how long it existed before it was open enough to give to Moscow and let be used in a high profile removal of a problem?

Russia's security chief told President Vladimir Putin that Basayev had been killed in a special operation, while a rebel-connected website said Basayev had died in an accidental explosion. Ingush authorities said the explosion occurred mistakenly during a special police operation against rebels.

The ITAR-Tass news agency, citing an unidentified law enforcement official in southern Russia, reported that Basayev had been killed by a missile that homed in on his cellphone — the method used to kill Chechen separatist president, Dzhokhar Dudayev, in 1996.

Source

It's a hard thing to have to consider, but the idea that Hollywood conveys of Running Man type endings of bloodless coups or more recent flicks of near violence free internal 'regime changes' just aren't realistic. The above is part of what really pisses me of actually. People like Bin Laden and his lieutenants were still on PHONES back then and this being open enough to just hand around to old comrades means it's old tech to those guys. The whole war probably could have simply been fought, won and ended with a few salvos of missiles in the right time and spot. I disgress though...

The point is, when they really REALLY care and want someone or a group of someone's removed? They get removed. Erased... Gone. This guy didn't even get the chance to fight anyone and he wasn't a goober with no common sense. He was a top commander and a rather exceptionally bad (as in evil) one at that. The lights just went out and one second it was a someone on the phone, the next? Only He knows. (click)

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

Remember Tienanmen Square. If anyone doubts for ONE SECOND Obama wouldn't clear the National Mall with equal efficiency, I weep for the victims that will pile up at the end of the day.

I think you are entirely, completely nuts and delusional comparing Tienanmen Square with the US.

And I also have reason to believe that many who signed those petitions are of the same mindset, in other words: Nuts, brainwashed, hopelessly confused...maybe from listening to limbaugh etc....anyway I hope you will get better soon.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

so, does this technology scare you ? or are you sharing hoping to scare others into submission ?

does it surprise you that it took 15yrs, thousands of deaths and the loss of a seal team to "get BL" when all we could have done had already been done repeatedly since 1996 ?

not sure about you, but my blood boils the more that reality sinks in

Think long and hard before you sign anything people!
Since when does the MSM work for The People?
Why then would they bother to cover this?
Unless you are willing to put your life on the line don't sign or that is exactly what you will be doing.
Why do you think they've been spying on every American for years?
Go ahead and save them the trouble of sorting out who aren't the willing sheep for them and out yourself.

I mean this with all sincerity, this is a honey trap meant to lure you in to the open.
The NDAA will go in to effect when the economy collapses which is coming soon.
The Military is being gutted right now of any leadership that might stand in the way of the coming Corporate-led New World Order. This is why Generals are taking the fall left and right as the CIA is becoming the main enforcing arm of the coming dictatorship. Yet another reason why our best troops will not be coming home to defend the American people from the coming takeover.

People like myself in failing health have little to lose by speaking their mind but most of you do. Besides, I have spoken out too long publicly to pull my head back in my shell now, The intelligence agencies know what I think about our government being a group of treasonous pack of hyenas who are only there to line their own pockets but most of you have long futures ahead of you and dreams yet to fulfill.

I beg you don't fall for this.
This has zero chance of succeeding.
Fight them yes, but this is not the way nor is it the time.
It didn't work before and the next time it won't be North against South but patriots against mercenaries and blue helmets but that's only after they sweep up the serious opposition quietly.
Besides, they will launch WW3 before they'll let themselves be removed from power and go hide underground until the smoke clears.
To beat them we would have to be just as sneaky as they have been.
This is the long quiet war for freedom that can't be won by grabbing a rifle and running in the streets.

PS - Isn't Red Dawn 2 coming out soon?
What I said above.

Reply to post by flexy123

I signed.

I am not a nut.

I despise Limbaugh, Hannity, Levin, etc.

I do not listen to Alex Jones or Jack Blood.

I do not like like Obama, just as I did not like Bush.

I am not a Republican, nor a Democrat.

I am not far right, and I am not an Evangelical Christian. Neither am I far left or godless.




How does that fit into your paradigm?


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Originally posted by incoserv

Originally posted by boncho
Seriously? Memes get a lot of attention. Justin Bieber gets 800,000,000 views on YouTube. However, I wouldn't elect the Biebs into any sort of political office.

Uh, yeah, that's the point. It's not just a meme anymore. The number of signatories is growing an a surprising rate. When this first started, I didn't think they'd garner enough signatures to see the light of day.

The petition needs ... what was it, 25,000 signatures to merit a response from the administration?

Texas has well over 70,000 at last count, and Louisiana over 30,000. Either he answers it, or he ignores it.

IMO, if they ignore it, it de-legitimizes the assumption on which the whole process is based.

Dude get real!!!!!!!!!!!!!

For Texas that is waaay less than 1% of the population!!!

Hell the website petition.org regularly hits 300,000 up to 1,000,000 million signatures over animal abuse or corporate abuse.... So telling me that 70,000 people, mostly angry Donald Trump style crazy people, represents any meaningful public sentiment is laughable if not simply nutty and outrageous!!!

These signatures literally represent NOTHING more than a few crazies obsessed with promoting "Obama-hate".!!!

reply to post by LittleBlackEagle


While I agree with your sentiments regarding freedom and the Constitution one cannot compare what's happening now in any way with either the revolutionary war or the civil war for one simple reason.

Technology.

They couldn't spy on us then like can (and have been) now.
They didn't have drones, tanks, helicopters, napalm or machine guns.
Armed resistance is doomed before it even starts.
Let's not give anyone unrealistic expectations of anything other than a quick death.

I can tell you there are a lot of pissed off people in this country, especially older conservatives. They're waking up to a new reality but let's not go off with any knee-jerk reactions that could get people hurt.

TPM and OWS both started as real, patriotic movements but were subverted by gov/corporate interests.
That is the other lesson that must be digested before any reasonable response can be formulated.

Reply to post by CAMale

And yet major polls (Gallup, Rasmussen, etc) are based on an even smaller percentage and taken as very strong evidence of the will of the people.

Hmmmmm


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

A very entertaining take on the subject;

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

Kali.. I don't know what happened to you. I honestly don't.

Nothing has happened to me. I'm passionate about the truth; Lies, misconceptions and misinformation piss me off... regardless of who the person is that is spewing them or what they are regarding.

I can't recall the last message I've read of yours that was in any way light or uplifting? The costs of taking the stands we all choose, I suppose. Still, it's been a sad thing to watch over the months.

I could easily say the same of you.

I am an American. That doesn't mean I'm an American Citizen when it suits me...or when they piss me off,

I never thought such.

I left Occupy because the cause of change became the cause of destruction and at this point, I'm as likely to fight against them as I am to stand with them on ANYTHING. They've become as much my enemy as an American as they have any sort of solution to anything.

I have a feeling that you can't articulate why we've become your enemy or for that matter how we became a cause of destruction. You've made similar statements before and wonder why I react as I do, to you. You defined me as an enemy not just of yours but of America.

Now, I had advised caution...I have damn well asked people to be careful and consider what consequences might be.

I don't believe that the State has slipped that far as of yet, but there are things now in place that can easily turn it into something to truly revolt against. Now is the time for words and discussions, it is the time for peaceful protest and shining a spotlight on the corruption that could lead us down the path you're so terrified of. It hasn't yet and hopefully it won't. Begging people not stand in opposition because you're afraid the State can be provoked into disappearing masses of people or ushering in Martial Law or anything along those lines, is beyond foolish... if you fear to act now before it has gotten that bad, how are we going to stop it from becoming that bad?

Perhaps I am overreacting. It's possible that the entire concept of law and order is basically negotiable now....so the fact this is on the HAIR LINE of violating one of the most serious laws any nation has....may be totally irrelevant in the long term. Then again....the penalty for Sedition or fomenting Insurrection is life or death, literally. I'll pass on THAT risk for ABSOLUTELY NOTHING GAINED. Thanks anyway.

There's nothing seditious about asking the White House to engage in a conversation about secession. The military isn't going show up at these peoples homes and arrest them for treason.

Now, you want to play revolutionary and see what Che and Fidel did when they played this game. Thats fine...

There's nothing Che about me or Occupy but again you demonstrate why I've taken a hard-line with you. A statement such as that, that solidly blocks us in on the Far/Militant Left when the majority of Occupy is Center/Center Left... it's unfounded, untrue and unfair.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

Maybe the thing that brings TPM and OWS together on a common purpose, albeit opposite long term results to each. It's a goal I've written my own threads on so I'd love to see THAT happen.

After saying all that you've said against Occupy, you follow with this? If we're a bunch of wannabe Che's why would you want us at any table? And no, Occupy will not be participating in any movement that has a goal of Seceding from The USA, we love our country, the principles of it anyway. The TPM and the rest of the Right can run away tails tucked all they want and when they're done having their meltdown... we'll still be here trying fix this mess, that every single American helped, in one way or another, create.