The Homosexual Agenda

Originally posted by edsinger

In pointing out to someone that it is a sin in my belief, I would also put out that a man/woman living together out of wedlock is also a sin, its called fornication..

But yet you by your own admission..you look at other woman, drink, smoke....what makes your sin so much less in your eyes then ttheir sin? Sin is sin....you are holding aa double standard here.....do as I say, not as I do....

Originally posted by W_HAMILTON
Yep, that's basically what I said in one of my other posts, even though I probably stumbled around it. I'm basically exactly what you are talking about, that's why I won't believe in Christianity, or any of these people preaching to me what God wants. If God did not want me to be gay, he would not have made me that way.

Not all Christians are like that, and because the bible is pretty vague about this subject, lots of Christians let their primal thoughts guide them, which leads to the confusion and over-rushed opinions we see today.
I don't know why God allows people to be born gay, just as I don't know why he allows bad things to happen to people who do not deserve it, but I do know Gods understanding of someones position in life is bigger than we can imagine.
I suggest you take a look at www.godmademegay.com...

Originally posted by edsinger
In pointing out to someone that it is a sin in my belief, I would also put out that a man/woman living together out of wedlock is also a sin, its called fornication...

Correction, it is a sin in your perception of your belief.
Not saying you're wrong, but regarding this subject there is not one clear set of rules in our belief, thus my opinion differs from yours even though we talk to the same God.

Originally posted by DurdenAre you saying that a homosexual lifestile is actually illegal in some states. Which ones?

Well W Hamilton points out that sodomy is an example. And yes that is not limited to a homosexual act.












[edit on 19-10-2004 by CazMedia]

I'll ask you the same questions that I asked edsinger......you can read my reply above......you can not say one sin is worse than any other sin...it's absurd....why do so many Christians think it's ok to disobey their god when it suits them, and be ridged and judgmental on other issues.....doesn't make people of your faith look very good, and it most certainly doesn't make Christianity look very inviting!.

There is NO degree to sin, and only one is unforgiveable. And believe it or not Christians DO sin, yet they recognize that it takes them further away from God and therefore they need his forgiveness. That is the difference, A Christian calls a sin a sin to the best of his/her understanding. As I have said all sin, some just recognize that it is sin and therefore try to not sin, but we all fall short.

Originally posted by W_HAMILTON

Originally posted by Durden
Are you saying that a homosexual lifestile is actually illegal in some states. Which ones?

I believe some states have anti-sodomy laws, but outside of like one incident in my lifetime, I don't think they are ever enforced. We have lots of silly antiquated laws that are never enforced, such as you can't carry soap in your pocket in Kansas, or all sorts of crazy things.

What people who point out the sodomy laws fail to note is that, sodomy refers to basically anything besides vaginal intercourse. In those laws sodomy can refer to homosexual sex, heterosexual oral sex, heterosexual anal sex, etc etc. So the heterosexual people that bring this up are either breaking the laws themselves, or wishing that they were

Thanks but that is the law that was used W_HAMILTON. thanks for beating me to the answer. Btw Georgia, guy got 5 years cause his wife was well slobbing a nob and they got caught. What an asshole cop.

Originally posted by W_HAMILTON
And edsinger I'm disappointed you chose not to answer me. But alas, I told you as much. It's easy to debunk someone like yourself. Because Lord knows you'd never admit that you pondered asking out a guy instead of a girl, and if you say being straight came naturally to you -- well, that's the same way being gay is to me.

I assume you are a straight, white male. You didn't choose to be white. You didn't choose to be male. And you didn't choose to be straight. If it's not a choice for you, don't assume it's a choice for someone else.

I ahve not delibriately not answered you, could you please repeat your question? Look no offense, but I do not buy that gay people are born that way. I think it is a product of environment and many other things. If you cant understand this I understand but it is what I believe. There are many people that thought they were gay and yet when finding the Lord, the realize the sin and repent and become perfectly happy hetrosexuals. Kind of like the lady from Roe V Wade. She later in life realized what she had done and is now pro-life. You do not have to believe me and I am not asking you to, but it is my opinion and I am so entitled to have it. I would treat you no different if I met you, I would be kind etc, but if asked I could not condone the behavior thats all.

Originally posted by W_HAMILTON

Yep, that's basically what I said in one of my other posts, even though I probably stumbled around it. I'm basically exactly what you are talking about, that's why I won't believe in Christianity, or any of these people preaching to me what God wants. If God did not want me to be gay, he would not have made me that way.

And I sincerely believe that He did not make you that way. I really do.

Originally posted by LadyV

But yet you by your own admission..you look at other woman, drink, smoke....what makes your sin so much less in your eyes then ttheir sin? Sin is sin....you are holding aa double standard here.....do as I say, not as I do....

So I said that I am a sinner, when I do look I feel guilt for what I ahve done, that is the key. I recognize it as sin. I can never be sin free, but in the eyes of God I am becuase I accept his Grace through Faith in the Belief in Calvary.


Drinking alcohol - Cant be a sin because Christ drank it and he was sinless. The Bible as a matter of fact supports wine as good for your health and now science is catching up. Drunk

A little off topic but.....edsinger, just curious, I assume by your above post, in bold letters you state one sin is unforgiveable, by that I also assume you mean murder. But when looking at your signatures (making the other poor bastard die for his country, and arranging the meeting, etc.) you are in fact condoning the one unforgiveable sin. Also, judging by your Bush as uncle Sam rolling up his sleeve to "arrange the meeting", I assume you are behind this war. Forgive me if I'm wrong but I don't think there was any fine print at the bottom of the "thou shalt not kill" commandment saying as long as it's done by the government, that killing is OK, did I miss that? Is it OK in gods eyes that Iraqi children and babies are being maimed and killed, as long as it is to prevent the possibility of Saddam ever having acquired WMD's (except the ones we gave him)? Even now that it is known he was not even CLOSE to developing them, do you think god still approves of innocents' deaths? Did he buy into the "bad intelligence" also? I think if you're a true christian, perhaps you should not worry about gays commiting what you think MAY be a sin, and worry about the administration you support FOR SURE committing the worst sin of all, MURDER.

Originally posted by 27jd
A little off topic but.....edsinger, just curious, I assume by your above post, in bold letters you state one sin is unforgiveable, by that I also assume you mean murder. But when looking at your signatures (making the other poor bastard die for his country, and arranging the meeting, etc.) you are in fact condoning the one unforgiveable sin. Also, judging by your Bush as uncle Sam rolling up his sleeve to "arrange the meeting", I assume you are behind this war. Forgive me if I'm wrong but I don't think there was any fine print at the bottom of the "thou shalt not kill" commandment saying as long as it's done by the government, that killing is OK, did I miss that? Is it OK in gods eyes that Iraqi children and babies are being maimed and killed, as long as it is to prevent the possibility of Saddam ever having acquired WMD's (except the ones we gave him)? Even now that it is known he was not even CLOSE to developing them, do you think god still approves of innocents' deaths? Did he buy into the "bad intelligence" also? I think if you're a true christian, perhaps you should not worry about gays commiting what you think MAY be a sin, and worry about the administration you support FOR SURE committing the worst sin of all, MURDER.

(1) No Murder is not the sin in which I speak of........One can kill in self defense, Murder is 'cold' blooded.




(2) WMD? Well I will not retype all that but just say I think he had them and some are in Syria/Lebanon and the documents that came out last week shows that he still has biological weapons (if proven I conceed). But I think he did.

Inspector's Report Bolsters Credibility of Iraqi Intelligence Documents
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Saddam planned to provide aerial drones to terrorists
www.abovetopsecret.com...

WMD: The Burden of Proof cont...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

The 911 Report & and Why War in Iraq!
www.abovetopsecret.com...






(3) I believe the war is just, no doubt in my mind. And accusing the USA of murdering Iraqi's then you would have said the same in Vietnam, vote Kerry then

"The New Soldier" And some will actually vote for him..
www.abovetopsecret.com...

20 Questions That John Kerry will NEVER answer** Getting real Good now
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Top GOPers in 'Major Effort' to Uncover Kerry's Naval Discharge
www.abovetopsecret.com...




(4) Well homosexuality is a sin, no different than any other sin..



You accuse the US of Murder.....you have said it all and need to read the links and educate yourself to another viewpoint.


If you are more interested follow my links for more in depth discussion.

[edit on 19-10-2004 by edsinger]

[edit on 19-10-2004 by edsinger]

[edit on 19-10-2004 by edsinger]

A few points, then I'm out of this spamfest.

1) For those who say that god "made you gay", you are no different. You should not condemn those who say with "certainty" that homosexuality is an abomination and demonizes Christianity.

a) It's possible that you were not "born gay", much as others are possibly not born a thief, a junkie, a slut, etc. If what you claim is true, then there is a complete removal of responsibility, expectations, or repercussions, so there would be little point in heaven and hell.

I just find it unlikely and improvable in the near future.

b) I'm surprised you have transcended above the human dilemma that has plagued us for thousands of years. Please don't condemn the Christians for doing exactly the same as you.


2) What it is about key issues that makes people loose their minds.

Nothing gets done in issues like this and abortion, because of the bigots.

Bigot #1 - The Christian. Totally betrays God's words to spread or prove God's words.

Bigot #2 - Assuming Christianity is full of stupid "Aw Lawd" shouting simpletons is ridiculous. Please don't play the same game as some of the "Super Christians" play. It makes you as bad as them.


I guess it's another line in the sand here. Who wants to grow the hell up?

Originally posted by KrazyJethro


I guess it's another line in the sand here. Who wants to grow the hell up?

It seems all that is necessary here...is for people to keep their nose out of other people bedrooms....plain and simple why is that so hard for some Christians to do? It's no one else's business...and if there is a 'Christian almighty", it's only between them and him and no one else!

Originally posted by edsinger
(1) No Murder is not the sin in which I speak of........One can kill in self defense, Murder is 'cold' blooded.

a. Where in the 1st commandment does it say "thou shalt not kill....except in self-defense"? Personally I agree, but I'm not christian, you are a hypocrite, I am not.

b. And how are we killing in self defense? What threat was posed? Even if Saddam had WMD's (which he didn't, we both know if he did they would be parading them up and down our TV screens), what makes you think he would dare attack the U.S.? Oh yeah, because you have been told to believe that, this administration must feel lucky to have such obedient sheep.

(2) WMD? Well I will not retype all that but just say I think he had them and some are in Syria/Lebanon and the documents that came out last week shows that he still has biological weapons (if proven I conceed). But I think he did.

WE GAVE HIM THE WMD'S HE HAD TO FIGHT IRAN! The same weapons he used to kill the Kurds back in the 80's, all of those were courtesy of the USA. How many other, more hostile countries have WMD's Saddam could only dream about? Quite a few.

(3) I believe the war is just, no doubt in my mind. And accusing the USA of murdering Iraqi's then you would have said the same in Vietnam, vote Kerry then

Yes I would, this is not the first time our government has killed countless people for a political or financial agenda, I must say though, it is no fault of our soldiers, they are young and believe they are defending us, it's the corrupt bastards who give them orders that are the slime of the world, the true terrorists. And I will vote for Kerry, the lesser of two evils, but part of me thinks we are voting between two puppets, one on each hand of the same man the same system, part of me thinks we are all f**ked no matter what. Amazing how they can cause the nation to be divided and be more worried about bashing one puppet or the other, when either way the same people come out on top, and we're all too busy fighting amongst ourselves to even realize it, good plan if I do say so.

(4) Well homosexuality is a sin, no different than any other sin..

Thou shalt not judge, lest ye be judged. In other words, your god doesn't want you making that call for him, he's perfectly capable of doing it on his own if he exists.

You accuse the US of Murder.....you have said it all and need to read the links and educate yourself to another viewpoint.

How ignorant can you be? I never accused the entire US of murder, just the current administration and the corporate interests they serve, both have little to do with the US other than using her like a whore. I don't need to educate myself to a followers viewpoint, I'm perfectly capable of forming my own, but thanks anyway.

Well I guess I am not going to repeat myself again and again....I ahve already addressed what you speak of..

sin....murder but in self defense? Did God tell the Jews to not fight when attacked by nations? Nope, he told them at Jericho something a bit different.

Bad argument on your part.


Oh yeah just Bush is a murderer....uh right.


Same stuff...spin away

As for the WMD's we never sold him VX, where did he get it?

Edsinger,

How are we sinners? I want a praxeological discource on the disposition of man to sin; your constant redundant rambling that man is sinfull i nature is annoying now, nothing but empty words.


Deep

Originally posted by edsinger
sin....murder but in self defense? Did God tell the Jews to not fight when attacked by nations? Nope, he told them at Jericho something a bit different.

So, what your saying is, god told the jews they didn't have to abide by the first commandment? Who did he tell that to? Did he tell them directly, with his own voice, or did he speak through some "prophet"? I can't believe otherwise intelligent adults believe these fairy tales written by primitive men thousands of years ago. It is humorous and frightening at the same time. But I guess commandments, like rules are meant to be broken. And once again, Saddam was no threat WHATSOEVER, he had no ability at all to attack us, nor would he commit suicide if he did, he enjoyed ruling his country. I guess unluckily for him he was sitting on a lot of oil that his former ally, the U.S. wanted to get it's hands on (the government of course).

Bad argument on your part.

Hardly.

Oh yeah just Bush is a murderer....uh right.

More ignorance? There has to be an end somewhere. When did I say just Bush? Please, show me. Again, he is just a puppet, a figurehead, it's the corporate interests and Rove neo-cons that are the murderers.

Same stuff...spin away

Bill O'reilly? Is that you? The spin stops here, right?

As for the WMD's we never sold him VX, where did he get it?

Really? I love the Bushie habit of making up facts!

Reports by the US Senate's committee on banking, housing and urban affairs -- which oversees American exports policy -- reveal that the US, under the successive administrations of Ronald Reagan and George Bush Snr, sold materials including anthrax, VX nerve gas, West Nile fever germs and botulism to Iraq right up until March 1992, as well as germs similar to tuberculosis and pneumonia. Other bacteria sold included brucella melitensis, which damages major organs, and clostridium perfringens, which causes gas gangrene.

www.rense.com...



[edit on 19-10-2004 by 27jd]

Originally posted by 27jd

As for the WMD's we never sold him VX, where did he get it?

Really? I love the Bushie habit of making up facts!

Reports by the US Senate's committee on banking, housing and urban affairs -- which oversees American exports policy -- reveal that the US, under the successive administrations of Ronald Reagan and George Bush Snr, sold materials including anthrax, VX nerve gas, West Nile fever germs and botulism to Iraq right up until March 1992, as well as germs similar to tuberculosis and pneumonia. Other bacteria sold included brucella melitensis, which damages major organs, and clostridium perfringens, which causes gas gangrene.

www.rense.com...



[edit on 19-10-2004 by 27jd]

Well I guess we did and I will admit when I am wrong, I didnt know we sold nerve agents, I just thought blister agents...I was wrong.


And also saddam was a threat to the US, in his support for world terrorism and thats enough for me.

[edit on 19-10-2004 by edsinger]

Originally posted by edsinger
I ahve not delibriately not answered you, could you please repeat your question? Look no offense, but I do not buy that gay people are born that way. I think it is a product of environment and many other things. If you cant understand this I understand but it is what I believe. There are many people that thought they were gay and yet when finding the Lord, the realize the sin and repent and become perfectly happy hetrosexuals. Kind of like the lady from Roe V Wade. She later in life realized what she had done and is now pro-life. You do not have to believe me and I am not asking you to, but it is my opinion and I am so entitled to have it. I would treat you no different if I met you, I would be kind etc, but if asked I could not condone the behavior thats all.

I asked whether or not you chose to be straight. I'm not talking about whether you follow thru on it, I'm talking about in your mind, have you ever been attracted to another male. Yes or no. If you've always been attracted to females as far back as you remember, that means that it's not a choice. Either it came "natural" to you, or at some point you were equally attracted to both men and women, but 'chose' women for whatever reason. I'm asking for you, which of these statements is true.

As for that finding the Lord comment, sorry, I don't believe that. Even though it's not a choice, being gay is something you can hide. Because of people like yourself, and worse, some of the more hateful people, it's easier to hide who you are rather than simply be yourself. If your family would disown you if you were gay, some gay people would prefer to hide their sexuality. If you are in a religious setting, and the priests say that you will go hell if you are a homosexual, it's probably easier to hide the fact that you are gay than be out and open. There's far more to the story than simply "hey this dude was gay but he found Jesus and he's happy and straight now."

And I sincerely believe that He did not make you that way. I really do.

And that's why I feel sorry for you. Because you have no idea. If you base so much of your life on God, and you say that God would not create someone gay, I know for a fact you are wrong. You don't have to believe me, as I said you will find out some day. I have no doubt when that day comes, you'll find some way to justify your beliefs, much the same way people did when they found out men don't have one less rib than women, or any of the other stories told by the bible which have been proven wrong by science.

As for your other comments trying to justify the sins you commit every day, that's a shame. Don't hold people up to one standard while you follow a completely different standard. If God doesn't want you to be sinful, don't be sinful. If you are by your own admissions sinful, don't talk down and criticize other people for being "sinful" either. You are not preaching God's ideals, you are just preaching your own. You try to justify your sins while saying someone else's 'sins' are worse on the sin-o-meter. It's not a choice to be gay, but it is a choice whether to smoke, or drink But hey, even if you choose to sin, God still loves you!

As for KT, please don't tell me what to do. It is NOT a choice. The only choice I have in the matter is whether to live my life a lie because some people try and preach to me what God wants, or live the way I am. Whether or not I was born this way, or had some sort of trigger or whatever that caused me to be this way when I was 2 -- it's not a choice, and never has been. The same way it is 'natural' for straight people to be straight, is the same way it is 'natural' for me to be gay. Same thing I said to edsinger. Did you choose to be straight Krazy Jethro? If so, when did you choose this? When were you debating whether or not to be gay, but said hey, I think I'll try out this whole straight thing and see how it works out for me. Fair question, is it not? I'm still waiting an answer from edsinger, and now you.

Originally posted by ZeroDeep
How are we sinners? I want a praxeological discource on the disposition of man to sin; your constant redundant rambling that man is sinfull i nature is annoying now, nothing but empty words.

Well, I think I can safely say that you will shut everyone up with that demand.

I don't want to get into the religious aspect of this, but I think I can summarize the phenomenon of homosexuality as being a perversion of the natural order, having been nearly universally reviled, and its deleterious effects on society have been noted since antiquity.

This condition is likely to never change, as it is so inextricably bound to the visceral. Personally, I do my best to treat all my brethren honestly and respectfully and avoid violent action at almost all costs.

Most don't share my values, so eventually the homosexual element will push the envelope just a little too far and there will be a violent backlash. That time could be very soon, as American society is as volatile as it has ever been and scapegoating is such a common human response to adverse conditions. Certainly, if the radical muslims have their way, "equal rights" will cease to exist.

Now, if I may remind people, this is the purpose of this thread:

Many have claimed that there is no gay agenda. Many have claimed that the agenda is only about equality. Others claim that the agenda is all about destroying the traditional and replacing it with the revolutionary. This should be a discussion of the social movements associated with Homosexuality.

[edit on 04/10/19 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Certainly, if the radical muslims have their way, "equal rights" will cease to exist.

And if people like yourself have their way, "equal rights" will cease to exist.

I don't want to get into the religious aspect of this, but I think I can summarize the phenomenon of homosexuality as being a perversion of the natural order, has been nearly universally reviled, and its deleterious effects on society have been noted since antiquity.

Eloquent formulation, backed up with nothing. Homosexuality is a perversion to the natural order; a natural order that has dictated that the act of homosexuality is manifest in many animals and cannot be laid to reason that they are subject to choice, nor sinfull behaviour.

Homosexuality has not had a detrimental affect on society, nor do i see proof of this, only vernacular to Christian societies; which can be said to be deleterious to the rest of the world.

Anthropologicaly speaking, homosexuality is common in most societies the world over and has been accepted.

Deep

[edit on 19-10-2004 by ZeroDeep]

Originally posted by ZeroDeep
Homosexuality has not had a detrimental affect on society, nor do i see proof of this, only vernacular to Christian societies; which can be said to be deleterious to the rest of the world.

Anthropologicaly speaking, homosexuality is common in most societies the world over and has been accepted.

Okay. Can we now turn to the topic of the thread and discuss the very fecund topic of the social movements associated with homosexuality?

Zero, this is an excellent opportunity for you to discuss the gay rights movement, the Stonewall riots, the behavioral changes in the gay community relative to the AIDs epidemic, gender feminism, gay adoption, NAMBLA, gay marriage and a host of relevant topics.

That was my intention from the outset.

[edit on 04/10/19 by GradyPhilpott]

Uh oh, I think Grady's a homophobe. You know, this study, www.apa.org..., shows that a large percentage of homophobes have homosexual tendencies. Don't hate yourself Grady.

Zero, this is an excellent opportunity for you to discuss the gay rights movement, the Stonewall riots, the behavioral changes in the gay community relative to the AIDs epidemic, gender feminism, gay adoption, NAMBLA, gay marriage and a host of relevant topics.

Of some i'am ignorant, so i'll just comment on what i know. Homosexual couples should be granted the right to adopt children in desperate need of loving parents; you can try to state subjective rhetoric that the children will come across x situation and be faced with the issue vis-a-vis an ignorant contester, but, as studies have proven, children raised by homosexual couples will be no more or no less healthier than a child rasied by hetrosexuals.

Deep