The Homosexual Agenda

What state do you live in?

California , raised in Mississippi




If that is true than it is wrong and you can would raise hell with my blessing. EVERYONE has a right to there beliefs even the Christians.

Well they do but only one is being eroded.


As for creation vs evolution, should they teach evolution in church? Should they teach the creation story for EVERY religion? We have a really big thread on this one already. If you expect the school to teach YOUR fables as fact then the church should have to give equal time to Evolution even if they dont believe it.



Well I would be cool with that, if it were EQUAL but it is not. And you are right the other thread would be the place to take that one, but suffice to say evolution is crap, adaptation however......

Originally posted by edsinger
So what makes it not a sin in your mind? Have you no concept of sin? What makes you right and me wrong?

Well, my reasoning is based on morals and ethics; not sin. I'm not a religious person. I don't judge other people's sex life either (as long as the parties involved are consenting adults).

What makes you right and me wrong?

I'm not condemning other people because of their choise of lifestile. Tell me; are homosexuals breaking any laws or hurting anyone by their choise of lifestyle?

Originally posted by Durden
Tell me; are homosexuals breaking any laws

In some states YES, Goodnight.

Originally posted by edsinger
In some states YES, Goodnight.

Are you saying that a homosexual lifestile is actually illegal in some states. Which ones?

but it is still a sin in my mind and many others......

Yes, that's colloquialy vernacular to Christianity; it may seem like a sin to you and the Bible, but that does not make it right.

So what makes it not a sin in your mind? Have you no concept of sin? What makes you right and me wrong?

No, you're mind is the one sined, you fail to use reason to aproach the topic and rely on Christian dogmatism, thus far detracted, to label Homosexuality as a sin; Cardinal Sin is not inherent in humanity, we have an inclination to stray away from moral obligations we make to certain faculties, but we are far from being born with sin. The human mind is born unconditioned and is subject to be nurtured by it's enviroment and shaping whatever one may become; bar none.

The Christian concept of sin simply relies on the "fact" that God, written through unknown authors of unknown origins, abhors certain character flaws and dispositions as sinfull in nature; it holds no merit whatsoever in the grand scale of things and has been privy in schools of philsophy the world over.

What makes Durden right you ask ? Simple, saturate the following: Act consequentialism, is the claim that an act is morally right if and only if that act maximizes the good, that is, if and only if the total amount of good for all minus the total amount of bad for all is greater than this net amount for any incompatible act available to the agent on that occasion.; given the large amount of members who have contested your views, you, good sir, are wrong; Ad populum at it's best

Deep

Originally posted by edsinger
So what makes it not a sin in your mind? Have you no concept of sin? What makes you right and me wrong?

It is not a sin because no innocent party is being harmed, and that seems to me a logical gauge of sin, if an innocent, unwilling person is negatively affected. I think most of us these days have concept of sin, and most intelligent individuals do not derive their concept from a book written in the dark ages that some are somehow still wholly convinced is to be taken literally to the last word and strictly and blindly adhered to. It's mind boggling, if the bible was written just a few hundred years earlier people would still think the sun is a god. We're right because we are fully aware what others do is none of our concern unless innocents are being harmed, we do not claim to be righteous and holy while supporting the violent deaths of innocent Iraqis' and our young soldiers, who are taking orders from the greediest most corrupt administration this country has ever seen, so these corporate whores can make money off our soldiers (mostly 18 year old kids, not even allowed to drink here) deaths, and the deaths of Iraqi children. But all they have to do is say god talks to Bush and an astonishing majority of christians swallow it with no hesitation, would Jesus really support this war? I thought he taught not to defeat your enemies with violence, did he not? Why are christians so quick to believe Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson, can't you see the hate in their eyes when somebody doesn't share their views? I think that if your god does exist, he is not too happy with the current situation, true christians would recognize that.

Christians are being made to dope down Christainity to fit those who are not. Why can my chile not say God in school? Oh he can if it is Budda or Allah but WOAH if he says Jesus! Now you see.....?


You just nailed it! Homosexuals are minorities huh? Thats EXACTLY what they want. You have proven my point..

Minorities are race, color, handicap, gender, NOT Lifestyle.....

Thanks you have just proven my point better than I could.

Becuase America is a secular -- cough cough bull# cough cough-- and pluralist society; you cannot force your lifestyle on another using Christian sovranty.

Homosexuality is not a lifestyle, it's a sexual orientation. Homosexuals dictate the same mannerism as the regular Joe living beside you; sure, Joe has the alternative of 3 holes to make use of with this wife, but our homosexual freinds just have on less; this is the fundamental difference: One hole.

Christianity was never meant to be taken literaly to begin with, it was allegorical forumulation of previous pagan beliefs; Syncretism manifested countless cults in the Hellensitic-Romen era that would translate non-Greek works with a Greek bias. It needs to be doped down, and thrown through a paper shredder.

I'm a kid and i would never want to recite and pay homage to God in my school, that's just pathetic.

Deep

Well this nation was founded on Judeo Christian principles and worked dam well for 200 years, yet in less than 25, God is being made to be something we should do in our homes, yet any other religion can do as they please...

Regress.

America was founded on secularism; the founding fathers were escaping from religious persecution.

Deep

Well I feel that the Word of God is the test and it tells us what is right and wrong. If you do not believe then you will not understand my argument. I feel I do have a clue what he wants, I feel that we all do yet choose to ignore it. God created in you the ability t know right from wrong, nature didnt.

Oh really ? Tell me, since God gave us the ability to determine right and wrong, why did he make us sinfull in nature?

Deep

Zero....Man was without sin before eating from the tree of knowlege of good and evil.....


27jd says,

It is not a sin because no innocent party is being harmed

#1 "Thou shalt have no other gods before me."
#4 remmeber the sabbath and keep it holy
#10 thou shalt not covet (remember that this could not be expressed but only in your heart.)

Where is the innocent party for these sins? #1-4 all are sins against god...does he count as an innocent victim?

Now i know the ten commandments are not the be all end all list of sins, just the top ones and a guide for us to discuss when talking about sins.
basically...define sin.

[edit on 19-10-2004 by CazMedia]

Originally posted by CazMedia
Zero....Man was without sin before eating from the tree of knowlege of good and evil.....


27jd says,

It is not a sin because no innocent party is being harmed

#1 "Thou shalt have no other gods before me."
#4 remmeber the sabbath and keep it holy
#10 thou shalt not covet (remember that this could not be expressed but only in your heart.)

Where is the innocent party for these sins? #1-4 all are sins against god...does he count as an innocent victim?

Now i know the ten commandments are not the be all end all list of sins, just the top ones and a guide for us to discuss when talking about sins.
basically...define sin.

[edit on 19-10-2004 by CazMedia]

I'll ask you the same questions that I asked edsinger......you can read my reply above......you can not say one sin is worse than any other sin...it's absurd....why do so many Christians think it's ok to disobey their god when it suits them, and be ridged and judgmental on other issues.....doesn't make people of your faith look very good, and it most certainly doesn't make Christianity look very inviting!.

Originally posted by Durden
Are you saying that a homosexual lifestile is actually illegal in some states. Which ones?

I believe some states have anti-sodomy laws, but outside of like one incident in my lifetime, I don't think they are ever enforced. We have lots of silly antiquated laws that are never enforced, such as you can't carry soap in your pocket in Kansas, or all sorts of crazy things.

What people who point out the sodomy laws fail to note is that, sodomy refers to basically anything besides vaginal intercourse. In those laws sodomy can refer to homosexual sex, heterosexual oral sex, heterosexual anal sex, etc etc. So the heterosexual people that bring this up are either breaking the laws themselves, or wishing that they were

And edsinger I'm disappointed you chose not to answer me. But alas, I told you as much. It's easy to debunk someone like yourself. Because Lord knows you'd never admit that you pondered asking out a guy instead of a girl, and if you say being straight came naturally to you -- well, that's the same way being gay is to me.

I assume you are a straight, white male. You didn't choose to be white. You didn't choose to be male. And you didn't choose to be straight. If it's not a choice for you, don't assume it's a choice for someone else.

Originally posted by edsinger
Well I think we ahve what he wants us to know..It is the Word. As obviously a non-believer you cant recognize this. It is a "put in in my hand and let me smell it attitude" of which you are entitled. But dont nessesarily assume you are right, oh wait I do that dont I? See the irony?

Well, as Amuk says I am a believer, but I do not assume anything other than something as powerful as god can not translate into something we can understand with the finite nature of our brains. I think any priest can tell you that as well.

Originally posted by edsingerYep, the famously Clinton statement. "if it feels good, do it"

So wrong. That is not what I meant. I mean that you must do as you think is right, with good in your heart.

Originally posted by edsingerWe are told to point it out, you ahve a conscience, it talks to you. All I am saying is that someday you will recoginze that is what makes you different than any other animal. When you ask why and then search, you now know where to look. Thats all, and have a great day, God loves you!

While I do point it out, it is not for us to demonize the opposition, but to invite them to share knowledge with us in hopes that we can lead them to what we believe is truth (not what IS truth, because no one knows).

We are allowed to do many things, which includes defending ourselves. But the venom is my chief concern, in that the stereotype that I am sure you don't like being placed on you about Christians, is a direct result of folks (you included) who fight Godly battles out of mean spirits and vitriol rather than love, understanding, and inclusion.

You do not have to accept it as being correct (as I do not), but Jesus did not associate with prostitues and other undesireable people to reject them and tell them they are not welcome.

Originally posted by CazMedia
#1 "Thou shalt have no other gods before me."
#4 remmeber the sabbath and keep it holy
#10 thou shalt not covet (remember that this could not be expressed but only in your heart.)

Where is the innocent party for these sins? #1-4 all are sins against god...does he count as an innocent victim?

Now i know the ten commandments are not the be all end all list of sins, just the top ones and a guide for us to discuss when talking about sins.
basically...define sin.

[edit on 19-10-2004 by CazMedia]

I don't think god would count as an innocent victim, being as (according to those who believe) god instilled those desires and tendencies in some of it's creations, imagine god's surprise when men act on those impulses it supposedly created, never saw that coming. Try putting your dinner in front of your family dog, if he eats it, beat the dog because he should've known you didn't really want him to eat it, you were just testing him. You were the innocent party, right? To me, since I'm not christian, I define sin as causing harm on an innocent living creature. You have every right to follow the rules of whatever ancient book written by men living in ancient times that you wish, and you have the right to express that you follow those rules, but if somebody chooses a different path in life, you should respect that as well. If you truly believe that you are right, then why are you so worried about what others do? Do you believe that if others don't live by your rules, that will somehow prevent you from going to your heaven? I just can't understand why so many christians (there are some who are good, respectful people) feel that they must impose their beliefs on the rest of us. Do you feel threatened that unless everybody believes as you do, that your beliefs are not valid? Why must we all share your values?

People do not choose to be or become gay, it is a state some are born in.
Because of this, I think it is valid to say that God does not condemn being gay, as He understands some are born like that and it's not something you can change.

Wether or not engaging in a relationship with someone of your own gender is wrong, is (even the Christian world) not entirely clear.
I am a Christian myself, and I happen to agree with the opinion explained on
www.godmademegay.com...

Whatever your opinion is, remember that you should not base it on the fact that you do not understand someone else's desires.
Of course straight people will think it feels unnatural to have gay feelings, gay people probably think the same about straight people.
Try to get out of the narrowminded "gaysex is nasty" arguments, because in all objectivity, all sex is equally "nasty".

[edit on 19-10-2004 by Jakko]

Originally posted by Jakko
People do not choose to be or become gay, it is a state some are born in.
Because of this, I think it is valid to say that God does not condemn being gay, as He understands some are born like that and it's not something you can change.

Yep, that's basically what I said in one of my other posts, even though I probably stumbled around it. I'm basically exactly what you are talking about, that's why I won't believe in Christianity, or any of these people preaching to me what God wants. If God did not want me to be gay, he would not have made me that way.

YOu know, I will catch up on the threads later but I have to make a point that I thought of.

In pointing out to someone that it is a sin in my belief, I would also put out that a man/woman living together out of wedlock is also a sin, its called fornication...


That is also a sin, but I would point it out just the same, so it is not just a homosexual issue.......with reguards to sin.

This is what gets me.

How can it be wrong to be gay, when god made all. Why would he make something then put in a postion to be hated? Why play games against his children? Why fear, what you dont understand?

[Edited on 19-10-2004 by SpittinCobra]

God and Gays dont mix.

Zero....Man was without sin before eating from the tree of knowlege of good and evil.....

Right.........

And you have conclusive objective proof of this ? I hate it when people don't read what i said.

Also, " thoug shall not have another god before me "-- Why don't we kill all the little Hindus in America becuase they chose another lifestyle? They are sinners, in fact, let's not allow them the right to marriage.

Deep