Why Haven't You Enlisted?

Originally posted by billybob
i owe him squat.

On second thought, stay out of his life. His life will be much fuller and satisfying without you and your kind.

Originally posted by Astygia
My sympathies to your brother. But they will be sending him a check for the rest of his life and paying his medical bills, as they do me. Was he Army? Perhaps I knew him.

I realize that money doesn't cure a situation like this, but it is the best they can do. The service takes care of their own, it is the politicians that abuse the military. I know words don't mean much about this sort of thing, but your brother is honorable, and again my deepest regrets as to his condition.

i wonder if they will play catch with his newborn baby for him.
i wonder if he feels the 'sacrifice was worth it'.
i'll be sure and ask him in a few years.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Originally posted by billybob
i owe him squat.

On second thought, stay out of his life. His life will be much fuller and satisfying without you and your kind.

back to my first thought, why don't you stop telling me what to do, "dad".
his life does not seem like it will be very satisfying or fulfilling, anymore, thanks to the globalist regime. i will do my best to show him why his sacrifice was in vain (in time, once the wounds heal), in the hopes that he will become a poster boy for 'the good fight'; against war for big business' goals.
my 'kind' are good at stopping stupid wars, and that is the best way to 'honour the sacrifice', imho.

the world would be a better place if nobody thought it was 'okay' to make THEIR views and opinions on someone else as mandatory.

What it comes to, is blame, billybob. My right eye is glass. My right leg ends at the ankle, I walk with a prosthesis. I have a thumb, index and middle finger on my right hand.

While not nearly as bad as your brother's wounds, I have my limitations. I can't run. I have no right-side peripheral vision, thus most jobs that require decent eyesight are closed to me. I have no college education to take a higher-tier job, hence my current line of nowhere jobs. I cannot take a job of any sort which requires me to be "handy".

I do not blame the government for this, I blame the insurgent who placed the IED that could, but blessedly didn't, have killed me. I do blame politicians who make their wars for their purposes, whether its straight up money, dominiation, or whatever other force drives them. The military are directed by the politicians, and soldiers die or get maimed for it. It is a dirty circle, all over the world.

I enlisted of my own free will, as did your brother. Nobody can tell you what to do, billybob, it's up to you to decide. You aren't dishonorable for not enlisting, imo. But accountability doesn't begin and end at the political level.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Originally posted by billybob
i owe him squat.

On second thought, stay out of his life. His life will be much fuller and satisfying without you and your kind.

Grady, I read through a large portion of this thread and it would seem you started it as a vehicle for some grand standing here. There are a few things you like doing, but in particular you seem to enjoy sorting people in two categories -- "patriotic heroes, guns ablaze" and "lazy cowardly civs, couch potatoes". This is pretty pathetic.

With regularity of a clockwork, you keep asking why the terrible events of 9/11 did not motivate majority of this country's population to quit whatever they were doing and go fight in Iraq. Newsbreak: Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. And seeing how defeating Hussein has opened up the Gulf area for Iran's expansion makes me sick in the stomach. I don't want to be a cog in the wheel implementing lunatic policies of the rich and the powerful. Sending this country into an unprecendented debt didn't make any Americans more secure and comfortable, as you keep suggesting.

Originally posted by Astygia
What it comes to, is blame, billybob. My right eye is glass. My right leg ends at the ankle, I walk with a prosthesis. I have a thumb, index and middle finger on my right hand.

While not nearly as bad as your brother's wounds, I have my limitations. I can't run. I have no right-side peripheral vision, thus most jobs that require decent eyesight are closed to me. I have no college education to take a higher-tier job, hence my current line of nowhere jobs. I cannot take a job of any sort which requires me to be "handy".

I do not blame the government for this, I blame the insurgent who placed the IED that could, but blessedly didn't, have killed me. I do blame politicians who make their wars for their purposes, whether its straight up money, dominiation, or whatever other force drives them. The military are directed by the politicians, and soldiers die or get maimed for it. It is a dirty circle, all over the world.

I enlisted of my own free will, as did your brother. Nobody can tell you what to do, billybob, it's up to you to decide. You aren't dishonorable for not enlisting, imo. But accountability doesn't begin and end at the political level.

wow.
sorry for your pain. really. i feel almost as bad for the maimed soldiers as i do for the innocent little kids who have no water, no limbs, no food, and no parents, over in the war torn countries.
veterans are not treated well by the government. many are left to their own diminished resources, with the 'compensation' being paltry and insufficient compared to their real world needs.
luckily, there is billions spent on propoganda to pave over anyone's doubts about anything the government does.

ever heard of 'veterans for truth'?

Why didn't I enlist?

Ah well I did try, but the RAF wouldn't take me because of my asthma.

Fact is though, Grady, when you fought in WW2 there were clear enemies.

Today, there isn't one.

Without coming out with some hugely crass racist or xenophobic comment, tell me what a terrorist looks like? Tell me where to point my weapon. I'm, sure that 99% of the people on here would shoot a terrorist dead to ensure they saved lives. But what do they look like? Where are their tanks, planes and submarines. Where is their country for me to attack? Is it Southern Ireland? South America? Iran? Iraq? Afgahanistan? Syria? Germany? Israel?, Spain? Italy? France? Northern Ireland? Vietnam? Korea? France? South Africa? The Philippines? The USA? Chechneya? Russia? All those places have terrorists, of all different types of ethnicity and religion.

Just point me at them, clearly. I need directions sir.

Who do I kill?

Everyone?

Just in case?

You can't compare WW2 with the "war" on terror. Theres been no formal declaration of war by a state on another, theres no mass mobilisation of manpower. The enemy isn't clearly defined. There is no imminent danger of the loss of sovereignity. Its NOT the same.

Originally posted by Mouth
I think that pacifism is more like a state of mind. If everyone believes in it, would it not therefore be so?

Of course, it is getting every human on the same page that is the problem. To do that, we as a species would have to overcome a few things, such as pride, greed, hatred, and ignorance. Do you not think that these attributes are the true enemies?

I absolutely agree. Getting everyone on the same page will be tough, but for those who are ahead in the book, why stop reading because others aren't as far as you? What I mean is, for those who undersandd that violence only leads back to the beginning, begetting more and more violence, why would they stop being pacefists and fight?

I actually see this as an awakening of sorts for some people. They are learning that you don't have to die just because some utra rich politician who is making money off of your life tells you to. It's a way to see that jsut because they're in charge, doesn't mean they're right.

Originally posted by Rasobasi420


I actually see this as an awakening of sorts for some people. They are learning that you don't have to die just because some utra rich politician who is making money off of your life tells you to. It's a way to see that jsut because they're in charge, doesn't mean they're right.

I like finding others that I see eye to eye.

Originally posted by Aelita
Grady, I read through a large portion of this thread and it would seem you started it as a vehicle for some grand standing here.

This is untrue, but if you choose to believe it, so what?

There are a few things you like doing, but in particular you seem to enjoy sorting people in two categories -- "patriotic heroes, guns ablaze" and "lazy cowardly civs, couch potatoes". This is pretty pathetic.

This is a broad generalization, but sorting people is something we all do and I don't see anything pathetic about it. However, if you really read the thread you would note that I am quick to honor all types of service to one's country, not just those that involve combat. Maybe I'll post such examples for you.

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[edit on 2006/9/8 by GradyPhilpott]

While enlistment is the most effective way for those who are young and fit, there are myriad ways for all of us to lend our support to the war effort.

(from one of the above links)

Grady, you don't offer any other suggestions. You say to die, kill, or help others to kill or die is the best way to serve your country. You mention that there are other ways, but don't say even one.

On top of that you seem to want war. You say support the war effort, but what if I whole heartedly disagree with the war? Why would I support the war?

I love my country, and intend on doing anything I can to make it a better place for my friends, family, and loved ones, but I think I can do much more for them alive than dead.

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
You mention that there are other ways, but don't say even one.

Look, I started a thread. I'm not recruiting here. Everyone here is on the internet and can google as well as I can, but since I am such a nice guy, I'll give you a hand.

Google Search

[edit on 2006/9/8 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Why haven't you enlisted?

Because I don't believe in killing people. Because I don't want to be stacked like logs. I don't think partaking in a war industry keeps your conscience clean. I haven't enlisted because I don't believe in THIS war. The WAR ON TERROR in only an excuse to attack the US's threats to global power.

The US are acting like sore-losers.

Originally posted by neformore
Fact is though, Grady, when you fought in WW2 there were clear enemies.

I'm not a WWII veteran, neformore. I served in the US Marine Corps from 1967 to 1971 and I served in Vietnam in 1968 and 1969. I'm 57 years old. Even my father was too young to have served in WWII. He entered the US Navy in August 1945.

Maybe the enemies were "clearer" during WWII, but today, they are no less deadly and I have to differ with you when it comes to the stakes. Today, especially dealing with terrorists, the stakes are higher than ever before.

So there are no clear enemies, but we and we have to trust the Gvt to point out who is and who isn't my enemy? Wow!

And, just so you know, another alternative to military service is protesting the war at every opportunity. And I believe by doing so, one is performing a greater service to this country.

Just my 2 cents

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
If you are of an age appropriate for military service and you have not volunteered to serve, I would, once again, ask, Why not?

I was in the military also, for 10 years. The last 3 years I was assigned as a recruiter ( not by choice mind you). I learned quite a bit why people do not join the military.

In your day Grady there were less people going to college, there wasn't an internet, and there was more of an emphasis on the military. Let me try to explain.

During WWII and Vietnam alot of the men who went to war were 18-20 years old. For the majority there was no plan of college. Now if you ask any high school sr. they will tell you they are going to college. I know it doesnt always pan out for them, but thats what they want. From my experience talking to the ones that end up not going, they are going to work and save up the money to go. After College they will think about the military.

We also have the internet now so everything that happens anywhere in the world everyone knows about it. Now anyone can find out how many soldiers have died in this war and how they died. You can find very graphic pictures and some videos anywhere on the web. Alot of people I talked to gave that the reason they would not enlist.

Some told me their parents just wouldn't let them, and if they did anyway, the parents would disown them. Now I know you could be thinking well they might say anything to not enlist. Well when you sit down with enough of these kids and their parents, you start to see it is the parents. Even the parents that were vets wouldn't do it. The anwser was always not for this war.

That is just one side of it though. The military has become more selective. I had lots of people that wanted to enlist but couldn't. Whether they could not get high enough on the ASVAB, past medical problems, or medication they have ever taken. The standards might have changed, I have been out for 2 years now and it seems they are still having problems with their numbers.

Those young all go, no quit, gung-ho, blood thirsty, Rambo types just are not out there as they once were. And I fear the longer this war goes on, there will be even less that will enlist. I still have buddys that are in and the majority are getting out as soon as they come back to the states. They have been involuntarily extended so many times its not funny. People hearing that will not want to go through that.

But that is just my 2 cents from my experience.

Hope you all have a good day.

Originally posted by Curiousme

In your day Grady there were less people going to college, there wasn't an internet, and there was more of an emphasis on the military. Let me try to explain.

During WWII and Vietnam alot of the men who went to war were 18-20 years old.

There was no internet and that's about the only fact you have correct. I'm not sure where you got your historical knowledge, but most of the opposition to the Vietnam war was because it was an inconvenience for those going to college. For others, it was an excuse to go to college. The average age for combat troops in WWII was about 26. In Vietnam, it was closer to 19.

In fact, this thread, if nothing else, has shown me how shallow the excuses for not going to war really are, because for those who just won't go any excuse will do.

Yes, the services are more selective than they have ever been. You can't blame a guy who's rejected for reasons beyond his control.

By the way, what branch of the service were you in.

[edit on 2006/9/8 by GradyPhilpott]

I wont enlist for one

1) will not fight in a phoney war.

2) They dont like homosexuals in the Army is why I will not join, wouldnt get in anyways

So that rules me out (being gay and all smootchies)

My apologies, my intent was not to anger you it was only to show you from a perspective of a recruiter. I have heard all the "shallow excuses" but I have also talked to these kids one on one. I know what they want to do with their lives and what they are afraid of. So I see both sides.

I was in the Army.

You didn't make me angry, but let's say, I was a little taken aback by the misconceptions about the era. The Vietnam era had a lot more in common with today's situation than during WWII, but that is not to say that all the comparisons made about Vietnam and the war on terror are valid.