Why Haven't You Enlisted?

The simple reason i didn't enlist even after seeing the horror of 9/11 is simple, i refuse to die for a government that doesn't care about me.

look how badly they have bungled the iraq war. They killed many good servicemen in a war based on lies. I find it immoral to fight for a government that starts a war on a lie. There was never any WMDs and saddam could have became our ally and help us smoke out the terrorists IMO

i actually have a buddy that served in the military and we went to high school together, i talked to him not long ago and he is very high in the service now, apparently 4 ranks from the top. While i respect him, i relize that me and him are so vastly different, i dont even know how we were aquantences back in the day.

People who join the military just have a different mindset than people that dont. I feel if you are inclined to join the services, you will join the services no matter what. And if you aren't inclined to, then you wont no matter what you see in life.

Other reasons i wont ever join any government agencies, is because they wont listen to people and make efforts to change unfair or un working laws. Tell me why the majority of the prison population nowadays is minority, with a great number being incarcerated for minor drug offenses. that is a travisty. nevermind the horrible fact that rougly 40% of the people who go to prison get raped. the government wont do anything to change policies like that because its easy for them to keep the drugs on the street so that they can get more arrests and line their pockets with money.

And what about the poor kids in iraq who wont even get adequte body armor from the government they are fighting and dying for. Why should i give my life for someone who wont even give me the protection i need? I enjoy my life to much to die in some war that some old greedy white man decided was a just idea.

Then there's the workers at ground zero, who spent a year cleaning up dead boddies and rubble, who now have lung and heart afflictions. Their own government wont compensate THEM. It's absoloutley sickening to me that these workers can't even get proper medical treatment. So again i ask, why should i risk my life and die when i wont even get proper medical treatment for the government i'm serving?

My point is, i dont feel the government protects me as the individual enough to warrent throwing my life away for their personal agendas. 9/11 was horrible but you know what, me throwing my life away wont bring any of those people back. me dying in an unjust and illegal war based on lies and propaganda wont honor the memory of those people lost.

Excuse me if this offends the older generation, but it seems to me that older people think the young generation is to unpatriotic because there is so much dissent amoung young people about the war, and resistance to the war.

To them i say, we have learned from your mistakes. the vietnam war was a mistake and the younger generation now has learned that they shouldn't blindly throw their lives away just because the government says they "have to defeat an enemy". WW2 was important, and u know i might have fought in a war like that.. but NOBODY on earth right now is as dangerous as hitler and the japanese were back in those times.

There's to many problems with the USA today....while it's important to bring those responsible for terrorist attacks to justice, that's not what this administration is doing. And like i've already said in reasons i've listed, the governement only wants you to server THEIR agenda. They could care less about your, your health or your family and their health.

Unfortunatley, i guess you could say i don't trust in, or love the government of country enough to die for it. if that makes me un patriotic or a hater of america then so be it... =\

You have voted ultralo1 for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have one more vote left for this month.

Enjoy. There's ten clerks for every every soldier, tanker, and pilot, but people aren't interested in that, are they?

Infinite, there is a big difference between a revolutionary terrorist group like the IRA, and the more broad, genocidal groups. Compare the ideologies of the IRA to the KKK. Both used terrorist tactics, however, the IRA fights for a homeland, and really doesn't want much beyond that. The KKK doesn't fight for a homeland, they want the extinction of a few peoples, or their slavery. One has clear boundaries of where it will stop, the other...well, they need a more forceful approach. You can't politicize with a bigot or fundamentalist. Are you going to appease them by trading peace for women's rights? Or appease them by turning african americans back into second-class citizens?

DE

Originally posted by infinite
en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

Thanks.
From what I read The IRA just wanted to have an independant Ireland, free of Britsh Rule. This can be done through diplomacy.

What the Islamic fundamentatist groups want is to convert everybody to thier religon. If you do not convert then you must die. This cannot be acomplisihed truogh any form of diplomacy. And I have no idea how to change this goal. The only way that I know of is to stand against these people and refuse to accept thier beliefs and not let them kill me. I have just as much right to my beliefs as they do to thiers.

Originally posted by DeusEx

Enjoy. There's ten clerks for every every soldier, tanker, and pilot, but people aren't interested in that, are they?
DE

Thanks

Originally posted by ultralo1
What the Islamic fundamentatist groups want is to convert everybody to thier religon.

ermm....no

Islamic Fundamentalists want to restore the Islamic Caliphate. Thats why Al Qaeda and Islamice groups are no different from the PLO,ETA,IRA, etc all have political movement surrounding land and countries.

[edit on 12-9-2006 by infinite]

[edit on 12-9-2006 by infinite]

It's funny how people think every badguy is 'The Borg" trying to assimilate the world, when in reality, the only groups that make that attempt are Christians, and those in favor of a single world government (ie USA).

I wish i could have enlisted. I had a car accident 5 years ago which broke my hip, some ribs, and shattered bones in my feet. I am unable to run long distances, and walk for long periods of time. This is one of my biggest disappointments, the fact that I could not join the military. It's one thing that I would have loved to do. I still think about it all the time.

Let's try to keep this thread on topic.

Islam, Christianity, the IRA, KKK, etc., are stretching a bit beyond why an idividual chooses not to volunteer for military service.

If you ever go on google check out the independent movie "Loose Change," the government was behind the demolistion of the two world trade centers according to the film. I'm not saying I agree or disagree, but never before has a building collasped from an airplane hitting it. Also, when one has hit a builing tiny little flashes didn't go off, like they did at the world trade center. Don't take my word for, just watch the movie and make your own deductions.

As far as the war on terriorism. Any war is dependent upon how strong a country's economy is. If people want to join the military because they can't get a decent job, that's fine. If people can boost worker productivity and become more useful than they would be as warriors, that's even better. You fail to recall how devastated Europe was after the war. Look at the Time Life series on world war II: Europe the after Math and you can see exactly what I am talking about. An example tells how one village in England held a raffle for one egg!

The other thing to recall is any prolonged war will bankrupt a nation. This is why it is so important not do have a minor or major economic downturn until the following has occured: 1) Iraq has stabilized. 2) Iran has gottne off the Nuke drama. 3) Opium production stops funding the Tailban in Afganistan. 4) The internet is used more to track down the Terriorists using it to communicate and make money. 5) The connection between organized crime and organized terriorism is reconginzed. I could go on but the point is this. The economy must stay strong and the military must remain a voluntary force. Yes. it's true alot of people did volunteer during WWII, however alot more were drafted. Alot of people were drafted during Vietnam. I'm not saying this is a bad thing, however, when the all volunteer forces went into the first Gulf war and the second things were pretty fast in the take down department. I also know that for psychological reasons the communists were amazed that Amercians at "Check point Charlie," at the Berlin Wall were voluntary. I know in one instance the communists were like:'"YOU guys VOLUNTIED? WE'RE NEVER WIN!!!"

You also have to recall during worlds war two the Soviet Union took at huge beating and deflected alot off of the allied forces. The number of people we lost during d-day was nothing compared to the 100,000 people the red army lost a day during battles. Add to that the amount of work people in America did to support the economy. (again see the homefront in the time life world war II series that I mentioned. Maybe your state public library has a set.) The point is this, a war that took place over 60 years ago cannot be compared to a war that is taking place now. America is deep in debt and needs to expand it's economy to pay for all the actions taken place by the military. We also need to improve our education system to make future soilders more smarter when dealing with their technology and battle field tactics. How many people in the military study Sun Tzu's The Art of War? How many Generals could pass on oral test on that book? Why send more people into the military when the people in the military don't even study the art of war that has proven itself hundreds of years before Jesus was born?

In conclusion, The economy must stay strong for the war on terriorism to continue for the decades it was be prolonged into. Can we win it? Sure. It's not like the violent Anarchists weren't defeated a hundred years ago. Do we need to draft people and create major labor shortages? Do we need to draft people who will be lead be people that don't memorize the art of war? Maybe not.

Originally posted by Big Papa
How many people in the military study Sun Tzu's The Art of War? How many Generals could pass on oral test on that book? Why send more people into the military when the people in the military don't even study the art of war that has proven itself hundreds of years before Jesus was born?

In conclusion, The economy must stay strong for the war on terriorism to continue for the decades it was be prolonged into. Can we win it? Sure. It's not like the violent Anarchists weren't defeated a hundred years ago. Do we need to draft people and create major labor shortages? Do we need to draft people who will be lead be people that don't memorize the art of war? Maybe not.

Great post, good points and great summary.
I own a copy of Art of war and several people I knew in the military had copies as well.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Let's try to keep this thread on topic.

Will do

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Why haven't you enlisted?

I'm a little old now in my sixth decade and having served my six year obligation and serving a "tour of duty" at the same time as the illustrious Mr. Kerry, though with considerably less fanfare and far more serious wounds.

When Pearl Harbor was bombed, most people had never heard of Pearl Harbor. Yet men stood in line for hours to sign up. These men stormed the beaches of Normandy, Anzio, Guadalcanal, Iwo Jima and Bougainville. They fought in North Africa, France, Brussels, and Italy. They liberated Paris, Sicily, Manila, and Auschwitz. They fought in sub-zero temperatures at the Battle of the Bulge, in the steaming hot jungles of the South Pacific and the dry, suffocating heat of the Sahara.

The stench from the dead on the islands of the Pacific was so bad that pilots flying over were said to become sick from the smell. Rotting bodies were everywhere and men would lose their footing in the mud and slide down a hill onto a mass of rotting flesh and maggots. They ate their meals sitting on top of the dead to stay out of the mud. They exchange their wet uniforms with the dry uniforms on the dead. They saw heavy combat for week and months on end.

The US dead were stacked like cord wood on the beaches, and yet they fought on. On Peliliu, Chesty Pullers, First Marines took so many casualties that when a reporter asked a Marine who was returning from the front, if he was with the First Marines, he replied, "Mister, their ain't no more First Marines."

These men endured heavy losses under the most vicious of circumstances so that the world can be free, not only for their own posterity, but for those whom they would never meet again.

Today, we all know of New York. We saw the towers burn and collapse and about the only response we can get is, "Do you think they will reinstitute the draft?

Why haven't you enlisted in the cause of liberty?


[edit on 04/10/11 by GradyPhilpott]

That has to be the most crazy post I have ever read in my life. I am surprised to did not mention George riding a bow of a boat helping to push the ice bergs away so we could kill the enemy. What happened then is not today by any means what so ever. There are many of us that served in uniform for america. The causes of events of pearl harbor and 911 are like butter and steel compared to one another!
Federals in america knew that 911 was going to happen, many businesses knew about 911 and did put calls on companies that would be effected. Why should a real american volunteer to die for oil, so a fat cat in washington can have more retirement options.
There has always been people that think less of human lives during war, cannon fodder is a human person that thinks its doing the right thing because someone in authority said it was so! If americans should volunteer to serve in this time an age then they should think about securing our borders, making sure there is a United States left in the future for the american generations that are too come.
But to mock people because there are other things in life then dieing in so hell hole, in dirt and filth so oil barons can take away our rights in the America is far fetched.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Let's try to keep this thread on topic.

Islam, Christianity, the IRA, KKK, etc., are stretching a bit beyond why an idividual chooses not to volunteer for military service.

it is on topic

i just used examples of why military service will not solve the war on terrorism.

Originally posted by mondegreen
That has to be the most crazy post I have ever read in my life.

Really.

The causes of events of pearl harbor and 911 are like butter and steel compared to one another!

I guess I could agree with that. Pearl Harbor was at the time an almost unknown Naval Base located in a small Pacific US territory, inaccessible to most Americans of the day. The target was military.

New York City and Washington, DC are on the mainland. The targets were both civilian and military. The White House was probably next.

Federals in america knew that 911 was going to happen, many businesses knew about 911 and did put calls on companies that would be effected.

I hope I don't get into trouble for saying this, but that's the craziest thing I ever heard of.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
dgtempe, after having read each post in this thread, I have come to the conclusion that many of these people aren't willing to die for anything in any war. I've heard all these excuses before and they are just the rationalizations of the spinally challenged.
[edit on 04/10/10 by GradyPhilpott]

Excuse me but that is an insult to pacifists including the Quakers and the Amish. Those 2 religions expressly forbid war because their spirituality tells them that war is wrong. They are sincere in their beliefs because of moral reasons, not because they have no backbone. I am myself a pacifist, I think it's time that the human race began to evolve into some other way of solving problems and disagreements other than war. Most especially, I feel that the war in Iraq is just plain wrong. How many innocent Iraqis' have been killed, does anyone know? Apparently not even our govt is keeping track, which shows how little regard they have for human lives.

After I read "War is a Racket" by Gen. Smedly Butler, a much decorated hero, I was convinced that war is just not a good way to solve anything. I believe that war truly is a racket. Who benefits? The arms dealers/manufacturers such as Dupont, etc.

Stumason, loved your post, I couldn't have said it better myself. Vagabond thanks for sharing your story and I agree with you.

Originally posted by forestlady
Excuse me but that is an insult to pacifists including the Quakers and the Amish.

Excuse me, but there are plenty of ways for pacifists to serve.

I have noted earlier that I knew an Army medic who was a conscientious objector, who served in combat in Vietnam and never carried even a sidearm.

He was the recipient of the Distinguished Service Cross, two Silver Stars and a Bronze Star.

He was assigned to the burn ward at Brooke Army General Hospital in San Antonio when I was a patient there.

He was perhaps the most impressive individual I have ever met.


[edit on 2006/9/12 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by ultralo1

Originally posted by infinite
en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

Thanks.
From what I read The IRA just wanted to have an independant Ireland, free of Britsh Rule. This can be done through diplomacy.

Read it again. Look at the casualty figures. I think you'll find that the IRA wanted to kill people more than anything else.

Deus-X they weren't "revolutionary terrorists" - they were SCUM, who killed indiscriminately, in an attempt to overthrow a sovereign nation.

Odd that this came up in Grady's thread. Where was the War on Terror while the IRA was blowing up London, Belfast, Manchester, Eneskillen etc. Why didn't the US enlist in the fight against the IRA? Why didn't you enlist???

Nef, I meant 'revolutionary' as in they supported a nationalistic cause, as compared to the Islamic Fundementalist kind, who wish to push a religious agenda. By no means do I support the IRA, and as you may have noted, I am Canadian.

As for why I didn't enlist for a campaign against them, I was twelve in 1997- hardly the type of soldier you want, neh?

DE

Originally posted by neformore
Where was the War on Terror while the IRA was blowing up London, Belfast, Manchester, Eneskillen etc. Why didn't the US enlist in the fight against the IRA?

Why didn't Britain declare a war on terror?

I really don't have an answer your questions. Had the British asked the US for help, I think something might have been done.

I don't know anyone on this side of the Atlantic who even knows what's going on with Northern Ireland, either why they want their independence or why Britain won't let them have it.

As it it is, the IRA has never presented a global threat.

The Islamic terrorists have struck the US, Britain, Spain, Maylasia, India, Pakistan, and others I can't remember now and it won't stop until the threat is eliminated.

Originally posted by neformore
Why didn't you enlist?

I served my country.


[edit on 2006/9/12 by GradyPhilpott]

Most of the world deals with terrorist acts as criminal acts and keeps the military out of it...and, I think that we would be better off if we followed suit.