Why Haven't You Enlisted?

All I can say, after reading these 21 pages, is...

Thank God I raised my son the way I did.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Why haven't you enlisted?
[edit on 04/10/11 by GradyPhilpott]

In light of US foreign policy since 9/11, your post makes no sense. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 and the invasion of Iraq has fueled hatred of the USA.

KL- where do you think you'd be if I or my dad hadn't fought those wars?
Would you have a British accent? Most likely. Would you have the freedom to post here? not likely. I mean come on...think about it.
None of the currrent freedoms you enjoy would be possible without someone fighting a war.
So......you didnt enlist. ok fine. Do you at least vote?
If not......well you got nothin to complain about.

Originally posted by Zerinity
My husband tried to get into the Airforce adn they shot him down because he had a GED.

I know the feeling.. Im basicaly in the same boat as him, Only way around it is 15 college credits, To get them to recognize a G.E.D as equal to a HS Diploma, Or just go for 4 years and go OCS..

I have to say that some of these posts makes my blood boil. My son has just re-enlisted in the Army. He is an honorable and responsible young man. Married with 3 young children.

He does vote and he is aware of current policies and politics. He has been interested and aware since he was a teen-ager. So, it makes me angry to hear him criticized, by implication, as being lowest of the low social register, dumb as a rock, and the rest of the crap posted here.

He has been an active duty soldier, recalled from the reserves, served an additional year and then out of the service for about 1 1/2 years. He will be leaving a good paying position to serve our country again.

My 2 cents

My thoughts and best wishes are with your son and his family, Mahree.
Shrug it off and stay strong, at least for him and his family's sake.

My best to him and may he be safe where ever he goes to serve.
You should be very proud of him for making the decisions he has, for in the end, they were his choices. He is a 'brother-in-arms' and will always be remembered as such, at least by me.





seekerof

My best to your son, Mahree. It takes substantial character to see what needs to be done and put one's own well-being on hold to respond to a higher calling. Thanks for sharing that with us.

A self-important social worker with no children who was in Vietnam but criticises today's young people for not enlisting themselves to die in a dubious war. wtf

I don't even knowwhere to begin there.

Ha ha. This made me laugh.

Grady, why did you ask someone else to take down offensive pics in their post yet your own post is so offensive to people who are opposed to war?

How bout if I tell you my friend was killed in Iraq and your post offends me? I am giving 10/10 odds that you'll respond with boilerplate rhetoric.

Is one vietnam vet having burn-flashbacks (from a horrible war) reason enough to edit one's thread on ATS? Sure, if you are compassionate.

So how bout it, Grady? You are recruiting the young in this here thread. I am assuming you will not validate their parent's claims of offense against you when their kids are burned as you have been? They should buck up and take it like you did. Is that right?

But then, your post here really isn't going to recruit anybody, so I expect that's why it's considered harmless as is your namecalling and attack.

This thread is really all about you grady, most of your threads are.

Couldn't have said it better. But GP has a soft spot in people's hearts here because he is consistent, and consistency is valued here at ATS. Rightfully so.

Anyway, here's my answer:

I have not enlisted because I might end up wounded, on the Internet, fourty years later, having convinced myself that my cause is right, trying to recruit other youngsters to go to war.

[*shudder*] I don't want to become that person.




[edit on 19-12-2005 by smallpeeps]

Originally posted by smallpeeps
I have not enlisted because I might end up wounded, on the Internet, fourty years later, having convinced myself that my cause is right, trying to recruit other youngsters to go to war.

[*shudder*] I don't want to become that person.

You'd have to learn to read, write, and spell to become the person I am today. You'd have to live enough with hardship and heartache to accumulate some character and appreciation for the nation you live in and the price others paid for your most basic freedoms. You'd have to subjugate your immediate desires for a better future for yourself and others. You'd have to grow a spine. You'd have to come to terms with the fact that you're not the most important person in the world, but that you can make small differences in the lives of people who will carry that legacy far beyond your own short lifetime. You'd have to learn to appreciate history, tradition and posterity.

An enlistment might provide you with some of those things and a foundation for the rest, but there are no guarantees. I wouldn't trade my service years for anything in the world, not even the war, my wounds and my recovery. I know that regardless of how anything else has turned out, I know that for one brief period of my life, I did something that will impact eternity. I'm glad I served, otherwise, I might still be like you.


[edit on 2005/12/19 by GradyPhilpott]

Well, this thread certainly brings back memories. I was just reading some of my early posts. Even I can't believe the size of the chip on my shoulder back then. Amazing how much a guy can change in a couple of years with the right experiences .

Oh well, here's my penance for all the nasty stuff I said:

Originally posted by KLSyesca
why should these young kids give the government there lives to play the game of war with???i am sick of hearing about ww1 and ww2 vets saying there crap about the youth of this nation is not enlisting,do not forget they drafted most of you...and for the ones that enlist you are fools

1. There is no dishonor in having been drafted. They stepped up to the plate when their nation needed them. As I have said much earlier in this thread, it is not unpatriotic to decide against voluntary enlistment, but when a draft comes about one must determine where his values are and make the decision either to take his equal share of the cost of living in our democracy, or leave. If a man was drafted and performed the duty which his country took upon itself, he is a man who values his principles above his life and I find that highly respectable.

2. Volunteers are not fools On the same note as those who step up when drafted, a man who volunteers during a time of draft has not only chosen his principles and his country above himself, but he has perhaps taken the place of another man who was not as suited to the task. As I have said, not everyone is cut out for the military; there are other virtues which some are more fit to offer to society. Volunteers ensure society the benefit of such people as well as the benefit of their own service. As the good book says, "No greater love has any man than this: to give his life for his friends".

3. War is no game. Not all wars are necessary. Not all wars are just. Most wars are undesirable. That being said, conflict is a natural component of life. War is sometimes a lamentable necessity of conflict, and in some cases war is just. You have singled out WWI and WWII veterans, which is clearly a mistake. What would you prefer that our grandfathers had done? Certainly you realize that American intervention was one of several vital components of stopping Germany and Japan. Had that not happened, there is a strong likelihood that Germany and Japan would eventually have gone to war with one another, and that citizens of subject nations, including Americans, possibly in this generation, including yourself, would have been forced to fight an even more awful war. Do you think that a Nazi Empire would give you conscientious objector status, or call for volunteers from its subjects? Or do you think they'd starve the hell out of us, round you and your friends up, and send you to the front with no choice other than which side you wanted to be shot by?

4. Your only point is against the criticism of those who do not enlist while we maintain a volunteer military, but you make the case badly I maintain my belief that there is no grounds to judge those who do not volunteer when the majority has not agreed so far supported any law that would require that contribution as a necessity for securing the common good. I don't find anything unpatriotic about speaking against a war or against the draft. That's all fine. On the same note though, there is no grounds for you to judge those who have chosen to serve either in the volunteer military or by honoring their obligation to a draft instead of renouncing their citizenship.

....see any of uncle sams kids fighting ......not

Oh, my bad, I forgot that two wrongs make a right.
Do you idolize the men in power and therefore conclude that if their sons do not serve that not serving must be the right choice?
Do you believe that the right thing ceases to be right the minute anyone fails to do it?
You don't see Ted Kennedy driving sober- does that mean that only suckers obey the law against driving while intoxicated?

Also let's not forget that James Roosevelt (son of FDR) was a Marine Raider in WWII- it's not as if there aren't exceptions to the rule.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
You'd have to live enough with hardship and heartache to accumulate some character and appreciation for the nation you live in and the price others paid for your most freedoms.

The problem with this is the complacency that has over taken the youth of the nation today - Me being one of them, I am a 19 year old college student, and I do agree that this war is being fought for all the wrong reasons, but tha does not devalue the sacrifices being made and that have been made by the men and women of the armed forces.

Grady, you must understand the enemy today is not the Communists of Vietnam and the Soviet Union. They were a tangible, hard enemy, with a clear and malicious goal: The domination of the United States of America and the eradication of capitalism as an economic system. People always fall back on the horrible experience of Vietnam as a reason not to go to war, but most of them do not realize that the war only fell into bad favor when things turned bad- joining the bandwagon.

Todays enemy is invisible, his reasons unknown, and much worse, there is no tangible nation or entity to target. We as a nation can no longer simply point the finger at a suspect nation and expect world wide approval. With an enemy that cannot be reasoned with, an enemy with nothing to lose, the road will be very long, and very hard, and many people fail to realize this.

How can you defeat an enemy who is willing to give everything they have, including themselves, to their cause? This is the enemy of today, and he/she is everywhere. "They" are not just Arabic. "They" do not have any certain skin color. This is a massive contrast to the Communist enemy, who all wore those silly fur hats and had thick Russian or East German accents.

And this is the hardship we must all accept, you can not simply ask the youth of today to fight a war they do not understand. You must make them appreciate what it is they are being asked to die for. That appreciation can only be gained through the unity of the people and the determination to finish what we started, whether right or wrong. Until that happens, that will be why I have not enlisted.

I know that regardless of how anything else turned out, I for one brief period of my life, I did something that will impact on eternity. I'm glad I served, otherwise, I might still be like you.

Cool, and I want you to go with that.

I'm just wondering how you feel about the wounded fellas who didn't take the patriotic path like you did. Some guys felt bad about Vietnam and opposed it. I guess when one is recovering in a hospital bed, the mind has some serious choices to make about the initial decision to enlist. Was it a good choice or a bad choice? I'm sure every wounded vet asks themselves this. Some take the patriot path.

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by Conquistadork
Grady, you must understand the enemy today is not the Communists of Vietnam and the Soviet Union. They were a tangible, hard enemy, with a clear and malicious goal: The domination of the United States of America and the eradication of capitalism as an economic system. People always fall back on the horrible experience of Vietnam as a reason not to go to war, but most of them do not realize that the war only fell into bad favor when things turned bad- joining the bandwagon.

You have so many misconceptions about Vietnam and also my own appreciation for the similarities and differences between Vietnam and Iraq that I can't begin to address them. One thing has remained the same, however. The excuses for not serving in both wars are almost identical--shallow, self-serving, and transparent.

I would like to address another misconception here. This thread is not about me. It is about you. So, you can address the question without bring me into it.

[edit on 2005/12/19 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Why haven't you enlisted?
...
The stench from the dead on the islands of the Pacific was so bad that pilots flying over were said to become sick from the smell. Rotting bodies were everywhere and men would lose their footing in the mud and slide down a hill onto a mass of rotting flesh and maggots. They ate their meals sitting on top of the dead to stay out of the mud. They exchange their wet uniforms with the dry uniforms on the dead. They saw heavy combat for week and months on end.

The US dead were stacked like cord wood on the beaches, and yet they fought on. On Peliliu, Chesty Pullers, First Marines took so many casualties that when a reporter asked a Marine who was returning from the front, if he was with the First Marines, he replied, "Mister, their ain't no more First Marines."

These men endured heavy losses under the most vicious of circumstances so that the world can be free, not only for their own posterity, but for those whom they would never meet again.


[edit on 04/10/11 by GradyPhilpott]

Because my idea of a fun job does not include eating on top of the dead corpses of my fallen friends. And it deffinatly does not involve bullets in any way. I enjoy life alot to say the least. And I have no plans on trying my luck on the battlefield. My grandfathers were in the marines and my step father was in the army. WW2 and the gulf respectivly. I respect what they did but its just not for me : )

[edit on 19-12-2005 by Civil44]

Originally posted by smallpeeps
en.wikipedia.org...

Your sophomoric appeals to your Psych 101 course doesn't cut with me. I didn't need to reconcile the war with my sacrifice. I've been through several stages of approval and disapproval of the war and its execution and even today, there are things I think were right and things I think were wrong. One thing has never changed in the intervening years and that is my desire to go to Vietnam, my efforts to make sure that I got there and my gratitude that I did get there, although I would have preferred to serve my entire tour.

Now, get back on topic. I'm not the topic of discussion.

Just my two cents, but I'd like to think the discussion is ultimately about a decision to enlist or not, though the people who make the decision are of course a factor.

I've fallen into the same trap in this thread before of discussing people, but I've always found that principles are a lot easier to understand than people, so where possible they make a good point of reference.

All the same the question stands: Why decide one way or another? Grady has asserted that the motivation for the decision is primarily a selfish one, so it seems to me the best answer is either to challenge that assertion or justify it.

My position is that the decision in either direction is selfish to an extent- it just depends whether or not someone values their ideals above their carnal interests.

To say a few of the things I've said much earlier in a slightly more intelligent way, I enlisted as an idealist, and with a few hard knocks came out a little less idealistic, but still not opposed to the military (edit to add- maybe a little opposed for a while. it took some time to learn the moral of what happened), only to arbitrary judgement- again to quote Rommel "if we judged everyone by his qualities as a soldier we would have no civilization".

Anyway, that's just me- an example if you will.

Any other takers for the question, or do we really all want to keep making fun of ourselves without even knowing it the way I used to?

[edit on 19-12-2005 by The Vagabond]

Why haven't you enlisted in the cause of liberty?

Because that clearly is not the cause the US is fighting for...

Your sophomoric appeals to your Psych 101 course doesn't cut with me. I didn't need to reconcile the war with my sacrifice. I've been through several stages of approval and disapproval of the war and its execution and even today, there are things I think were right and things I think were wrong. One thing has never changed in the intervening years and that is my desire to go to Vietnam, my efforts to make sure that I got there and my gratitude that I did get there, although I would have preferred to serve my entire tour.

Now, get back on topic. I'm not the topic of discussion.

Oh but it you are the topic of this discussion. You've made more self-references in this thread than about anything else. Re-read it. You've also been aggressive in this thread, asking people directly to prove their military service and prove their identity while backpedalling when others get aggressive with you.

Anyway, I just think it's uncool to send kids to be de-limbed in this manufactured war called Iraq.

You're no doubt a brave man, Grady. I respect you for that. For what part your sacrifice had in protecting my freedom, I genuflect.

I for one appreciate and commend anyone who has served or will serve in the military. I myself look forward to my own military career in the near future and I hope it will be as gratifying as it was for everyone else who has served.

That said, Grady, I want you to read something you wrote earlier:

Freedom and duty were indissolubly mixed in the rational minds of those who sacrificed so that you could spew sewage.

Grady and anyone else who is bitter, let me remind you that your duty (and you all love to say this) is to ensure that the rest of the people have the unabated freedom and right to live their lives and do what they please. So if that bothers you, I'm not sure why you served in the first place. If you believe it was truly your duty, then don't complain about what the end result is, because its ultimately your duty no matter how things turn out.

Anyway, to end my rant, the military a great career path for anybody. I highly recommend it to all. And no, you don't need to worship the Republican party to be in the military.

[edit on 19-12-2005 by sweatmonicaIdo]

Originally posted by Off_The_Street
All I can say, after reading these 21 pages, is...

Thank God I raised my son the way I did.

Well, each to their own, of course.