Who is Jesus? Son of God or God?

reply to post by jmdewey60


That idea is easily refuted. Christ was tempted in the wilderness after fasting for 40 days.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


He didn't give into his temptation though. My understanding is he spent that 40 days, not fighting "Lucifer", but battling with his carnal desires. He was fighting himself. And when he emerged, he had won the battle with the temptations that lead other men to doom. He was in control of every aspect of his being.

He wasn't fighting Lucifer. He was fighting the darker side of humanity that was inherent with his incarnation.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


I never said He did give into temptation, to do so is sin. And He was tempted by satan, both are clear from the text.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by jmdewey60

 

As I understand it (if I may) Jesus was body, containing essence of the Source (holy ghost) and thinking with the mind of "God" (higher consciousness or Christ Consciousness). In this sense, he was all three, temporarily combined within one person. This is not a natural shape or condition to be in for planet Earth, and that's probably why he sacrificed himself, because he didn't belong. However, he chose to come so as to restore karmic balance and give us a few lessons. Still, the exact nature and proportions of his "divinity" are confusing, so let's give it another look. I might be able to help with this.

To make it clearer, let's put sugar-water and strawberries in a Tupperware container. The strawberries (Higher Consciousness) give understanding and awareness to the sugar-water, flavoring it. When it comes time to garnish or add to dishes, you pour some of that syrup out, just as Jesus did when applying his cosmic abilities. You fill it with more sugar-water from the sink, or "cosmic ether", and repeat. And when it comes time to REALLY enjoy that combination, you take the strawberries out too.

But see, the strawberries are not the Tupperware, and the sugar-water is not the Tupperware, nor is it the strawberries, although the strawberries BOOST the "power" of the sugar-water by adding flavor and decadence to it. The Tupperware is merely a vessel, and when the vessel is ready, it pours its sweetness into other things to bring them closer to "perfection".

The Tupperware is Jesus, the sugar-water is Spirit, and the strawberries which lent so much goodness is "God", or Higher Consciousness. That's really the best example I have right now, so I hope that helps some of you.

edit on 26-7-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

That was a very good example.

reply to post by deadeyedick

I think he said i am who i am.
yhwh

Of course he was speaking in Greek when he said that, so it is not whatever you are suggesting (yhwh * sic).
Now of course there is a direct correspondence between the I Am in the Old Testament stories and what Jesus was claiming for himself as to who he was.
YHWH would have been some sort of divine being who would appear to various people representing God though I should point out that YHWH I doubt was ever meant to be understood as if it was the proper name of God.
It would have been appropriated by the later editors of the OT for a designation of God, since human nature insists on such things, so when the manifestations of God's divinity, or His messengers, appear in one of the stories, it was given that designation, to keep it separated from maybe some other sort of super-human entity.
So, when Jesus said he was the I Am, he meant it in the sense of the manifestations of God's divinity, or His messenger. In his case, both would be applicable, but he was no more God, than was those before him who were later called YHWH when the stories were written down in their final form of OT.
Whatever status to humans that the old Angel of the Lord had in former times, then Jesus was claiming for himself.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

He didn't give into his temptation though. My understanding is he spent that 40 days, not fighting "Lucifer", but battling with his carnal desires. He was fighting himself. And when he emerged, he had won the battle with the temptations that lead other men to doom. He was in control of every aspect of his being.

He wasn't fighting Lucifer. He was fighting the darker side of humanity that was inherent with his incarnation.

A egodeath and probably a fear induced amagydala overload. It seem to be the quickroute to instant awakening/enlightenment/gnosis and turning the pineal gland on. He might have been perciveing some higher dimensional things also. It would be interesting to experiance what he went thru if you can obejctivly go thru it without being overwhelmed by the emotions or with the emotions turned off. Maybe if we ask him or god nicely when we are on the other side. I hope he is having a nice time right now.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

That idea is easily refuted. Christ was tempted in the wilderness after fasting for 40 days.

What exactly does that "refute" and how?
(you don't have to give a lengthy dissertation on that right this minute if you are using your phone, since I am not in that big of a hurry for a reply)

reply to post by apushforenlightment


Thank you, I do try. Unfortunately, 50 years from now, someone will find that example and begin worshipping strawberries.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

. . . he chose to come so as to restore karmic balance and give us a few lessons. Still, the exact nature and proportions of his "divinity" are confusing . . .

I'm sure there are a lot of ways to look at what was going on with Jesus as he was in his "ordinary" man-status between his birth and his death on the cross.
I think there are a few important things concerning this that should be kept in mind since they have theological consequences, plus the trouble was made in the New Testament to point them out.
Jesus was a real person and a human being born of a daughter of Eve.
The person Jesus was, was the same person who was before his birth in heaven with God, and was himself "in the form of god", whatever that means.
Jesus was tempted in all ways as we are.
Jesus resisted temptation and lead a life fully pleasing to God.

reply to post by jmdewey60

Jesus was a real person and a human being born of a daughter of Eve.

I think great-great-granddaughter would be somewhat closer to the actuality, but I see what you're saying. His physical form was completely mortal, and his only "specialness" came from the Christ Consciousness that he, for some reason, was born with or able to develop. I think he was just more psychic than the other people. Gifted, as we would say.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

That idea is easily refuted. Christ was tempted in the wilderness after fasting for 40 days.

What exactly does that "refute" and how?
(you don't have to give a lengthy dissertation on that right this minute if you are using your phone, since I am not in that big of a hurry for a reply)

Your last sentence. Claiming people are in a "cult" if they believe the Son of God incarnated as a man and could never be tempted. That claim is easily refuted by the Biblical texts. He was tempted in every way we are but without sin. He never yielded to that temptation.

"""The virgin answered: 'Now how shall I bring forth sons, seeing I know not a man?' The angel answered: 'O Mary, God who made man without a man is able to generate in thee man with- out a man, because with him nothing is impossible.'
Mary answered: 'I know that God is almighty, therefore his will be done.' The angel answered: 'Now be conceived in thee the prophet, whom thou shalt name Jesus: and thou shalt keep him from wine and from strong drink and from every unclean meat, because the child is an holy one of God.' Mary bowed herself with humility, saying:
'Behold the handmaid of God, be it done according to thy word.'
The angel departed, and the virgin glorified God, saying: 'Know, O my soul, the greatness of God, and exult, my spirit, in God my Saviour; for he hath regarded the lowliness of his handmaiden, insomuch that I shall be called blessed by all the nations, for he that is mighty hath made me great, and blessed be his holy name. For his mercy extendeth from generation to generation of them that fear him. Mighty hath he made his hand, and he hath scattered the proud in the imagination of his heart. He hath put down the mighty from their seat, and hath exalted the humble. Him who hath been hungry hath he filled with good things, and the rich he hath sent empty away. For he keepeth in memory the promises made to Abraham and to his son for ever'."""" Barnabas chapter 1
Barnabas.net

Do you see any incorrectness if we call Jesus the son of Mary not God ?

reply to post by maes9


I actually find that to be much more accurate than the more widely-accepted titles...

reply to post by NOTurTypical

. . . Claiming people are in a "cult" if they believe the Son of God incarnated as a man and could never be tempted. That claim is easily refuted by the Biblical texts. He was tempted in every way we are but without sin. He never yielded to that temptation.

For one thing, I was not claiming anyone in particular belongs to a cult. I was saying you are influenced by lies spewed out of the mouths of false prophets on YouTube videos who seem to me to be in a cult or are cult leaders themselves of the "free grace" theology, which teaches the only important thing to be "saved" is to be convinced that you are.
I am not sure what it is exactly you are trying to support here in this post.
You have said in earlier posts that you thought Jesus could not have possibly sinned because he was God. I have to assume that you are saying he could have been tempted even though he never could have possibly succumbed to the temptation. I see that as a contradiction, and again, I can only see as an explanation for this position, the poison venom of the serpent Satan destroying the Gospel for the weak minded who crave the fruits of sin more than they do godliness.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

. . . Claiming people are in a "cult" if they believe the Son of God incarnated as a man and could never be tempted. That claim is easily refuted by the Biblical texts. He was tempted in every way we are but without sin. He never yielded to that temptation.

For one thing, I was not claiming anyone in particular belongs to a cult. I was saying you are influenced by lies spewed out of the mouths of false prophets on YouTube videos who seem to me to be in a cult or are cult leaders themselves of the "free grace" theology, which teaches the only important thing to be "saved" is to be convinced that you are.
I am not sure what it is exactly you are trying to support here in this post.
You have said in earlier posts that you thought Jesus could not have possibly sinned because he was God. I have to assume that you are saying he could have been tempted even though he never could have possibly succumbed to the temptation. I see that as a contradiction, and again, I can only see as an explanation for this position, the poison venom of the serpent Satan destroying the Gospel for the weak minded who crave the fruits of sin more than they do godliness.

edit on 26-7-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

And I say Jesus couldn't have possibly sinned because he was a prophet, apostle of God. if an apostle is inclined to do a sin as we do, for example lie, then he is not reliable, how can it convey the message of God to humanity !

reply to post by maes9

And I say Jesus couldn't have possibly sinned because he was a prophet, apostle of God. if an apostle is inclined to do a sin as we do, for example lie, then he is not reliable, how can it convey the message of God to humanity !

You obviously do not subscribe to the New Testament and are probably looking at this from a non-Christian viewpoint, so I am not especially concerned with engaging in a dispute over Christian doctrines in particular with that sort of person, and as an unbeliever, you can make up any sort of religion you want and I don't see it as a threat to those who are called by God.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by maes9

 

And I say Jesus couldn't have possibly sinned because he was a prophet, apostle of God. if an apostle is inclined to do a sin as we do, for example lie, then he is not reliable, how can it convey the message of God to humanity !

You obviously do not subscribe to the New Testament and are probably looking at this from a non-Christian viewpoint, so I am not especially concerned with engaging in a dispute over Christian doctrines in particular with that sort of person, and as an unbeliever, you can make up any sort of religion you want and I don't see it as a threat to those who are called by God.

Ok I see, I respect your views, and doctrines, I just threw out my Idea. but I do believe in God and Jesus so I am not an unbeliever.

Originally posted by maes9

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

. . . Claiming people are in a "cult" if they believe the Son of God incarnated as a man and could never be tempted. That claim is easily refuted by the Biblical texts. He was tempted in every way we are but without sin. He never yielded to that temptation.

For one thing, I was not claiming anyone in particular belongs to a cult. I was saying you are influenced by lies spewed out of the mouths of false prophets on YouTube videos who seem to me to be in a cult or are cult leaders themselves of the "free grace" theology, which teaches the only important thing to be "saved" is to be convinced that you are.
I am not sure what it is exactly you are trying to support here in this post.
You have said in earlier posts that you thought Jesus could not have possibly sinned because he was God. I have to assume that you are saying he could have been tempted even though he never could have possibly succumbed to the temptation. I see that as a contradiction, and again, I can only see as an explanation for this position, the poison venom of the serpent Satan destroying the Gospel for the weak minded who crave the fruits of sin more than they do godliness.

edit on 26-7-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

And I say Jesus couldn't have possibly sinned because he was a prophet, apostle of God. if an apostle is inclined to do a sin as we do, for example lie, then he is not reliable, how can it convey the message of God to humanity !

But what if a lie is what god needs to be told to the seekers who have not experianced gnosis? And just because the thing he is telling might be untrue do not mean he does not mean he lies. He might belive something is true that is false.

According to one book that was not included Jesus did not say the thruth about hell becuase it was counterproductive to humanitis spiritual evolution.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by maes9

 

And I say Jesus couldn't have possibly sinned because he was a prophet, apostle of God. if an apostle is inclined to do a sin as we do, for example lie, then he is not reliable, how can it convey the message of God to humanity !

You obviously do not subscribe to the New Testament and are probably looking at this from a non-Christian viewpoint, so I am not especially concerned with engaging in a dispute over Christian doctrines in particular with that sort of person, and as an unbeliever, you can make up any sort of religion you want and I don't see it as a threat to those who are called by God.

Be nice to your soulbrothers. All is sooner or later called by god in their own way. But I agree with your prev post that yes some people should focus more and not play around with ego/sin.

Would you follow god if he appeared himself to you in a form or scripture if they where totaly at odds with each other? And sorry I am of no religion so I should probably not discuss new testament even if I find it very enlightning sometimes.

Originally posted by maes9

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by maes9

 

And I say Jesus couldn't have possibly sinned because he was a prophet, apostle of God. if an apostle is inclined to do a sin as we do, for example lie, then he is not reliable, how can it convey the message of God to humanity !

You obviously do not subscribe to the New Testament and are probably looking at this from a non-Christian viewpoint, so I am not especially concerned with engaging in a dispute over Christian doctrines in particular with that sort of person, and as an unbeliever, you can make up any sort of religion you want and I don't see it as a threat to those who are called by God.

Ok I see, I respect your views, and doctrines, I just threw out my Idea. but I do believe in God and Jesus so I am not an unbeliever.

Do not take that so serious. Since I am beliving in God/Jesus/Buddha and some part of Bhagavad Gita seem to fit but is a bit off by my thoughtpattern then I am probably a heretical Mystic that questions every knowlege humans have created and especially their views of god. Oh well you cant win the approval of all humans so why even care. . Do not worry to much about labels or what other people think. Even if they call you unbeliver it does not matter since your spirit/core tells you otherwise.