Mass shooting in Aurora, CO (At Batman Film Premiere)

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
reported on local news right now:

*NO military history
*only runin w/ law was traffic ticket w/ aurora police...
*parents live in san diego...
*although his name has been released by MSM, aurora has NOT released his name as they are running his background now.....they are trying to figure out TN connection (his plates).....
*a rifel, handgun and additional gun was used....
*suspect did not try and flee, nor turn weapons on himself, he was just standing outside the theater and was arrested right there and informed LE his car/apt has explosives....none have been found yet, still checking...

ETA...

*not on any watch list, no known link to a terrorist group (though they are still digging into his background)...he was on NOBODYS radar!

edit on July 20th 2012 by greeneyedleo because: (no reason given)

What do we got?

Nothing. No matches on prints, DNA, dental. Clothing is custom, no labels. Nothing in his pockets but knives and lint. No name, no other alias.

reply to post by antonia


Are you sure about that?

As I have said, in Arizona, it is open carry/ccw carry state. If you have a driver's license, you can open carry. But people take a lot of training, beyond the course required. Many of them take military style defensive training.

I felt safer there than in my gun control state.

reply to post by DriCo04


So, if he'd had a knife, he woulda been able to kill 14 and wound 50 in a cinema?

There is something that Europeans have to understand about gun control and why weapons will never be eliminated in the US.

Europe is very fortunate to have this pact among countries with somewhat similar ideals, or at the very least they are allies, and your governments can easily communicate and watch your borders, though you don't need too.

The US has Canada to the north. Not that we have to worry about Canadians, lol. But it is a HUGE gaping border that no country has the resources to gaurd.

Than we have Mexico.

That is all I have to say.

Originally posted by longlostbrother
reply to post by NavyDoc

 

flawed logic at it's best... or worse... you can't simply sell people endless guns, and then when one of the people that's bought multiple guns, goes on a shooting spree in a cinema say, see, that cinema didn't allow guns.. therefore guns aren't the problem... I mean you can, but you're probably not to honest if you do that...

No, it is quite honest and quite logical. Like a total ban on drugs, a total ban on guns in the US will not keep those who want those guns from getting them, therefore the only people you disarm are people who obey the law and hence are not part of the problem. All you do is create disarmed victims. Very logical and very consistent position.

reply to post by nixie_nox


Come visit Ireland. You won't see a gun for months, years even, at a time.

Chances of being shot are next to none. Cops don't carry guns cause the crooks don't have them.

Same in the UK.

That's 10s of millions of people with almost no gun crime.

If you carried a gun here, for safety, people would report you to the cops for being a nutter.

The news is now saying James Holmes had bought a ticket to the movie to watch it, then he exited the emergency exit using something to keep the door open, went to his car and geared up and got his weapons, then went back into the theater from the exit, and then did his horrible act.

That explains how he got in through the one way emergency exit door.

Originally posted by nixie_nox
reply to post by antonia

 

Are you sure about that?

As I have said, in Arizona, it is open carry/ccw carry state. If you have a driver's license, you can open carry. But people take a lot of training, beyond the course required. Many of them take military style defensive training.

I felt safer there than in my gun control state.

Yea, I'm sure about it. Just google "shooting in nightclub" and you will see how prevalent it is. A "person" is smart, people are dumb. This is where you are getting confused. Your average person who takes to the time take the training isn't the type to go get drunk in a bar with a gun.

Originally posted by petrus4

Originally posted by detachedindividual
There is no evidence for anything you are suggesting. You're just weaving reality into your delusions.

You sound like an intelligent person generally, but you're really not making any sense. You're incorporating complete fiction into real events as though they actually happened, and even quoting movie lines as "evidence" of something!

I'm basing this on what I've seen happen before.

The other thing to understand, detached, is that you can't ask for concrete proof of the type you seem to want, because you'll never get any. Look at the prosecution of Al Capone. Ness knew how much he was guilty of, but the only thing they could ever nail him on was tax fraud, because they had no way to prove any of the rest of it.

And he also had a lot of paid off and blackmailed people in senior positions of law enforcement, the courts and government too, lets not conveniently forget that!

There was PLENTY of evidence, but also plenty of people able and willing to help him cover his ass.

I'm not saying that lack of evidence means something isn't possible or doesn't exist. I'm talking about probability and likelihood. Occam's Razor.

Just because I can theorize something doesn't mean that it actually happens. I can theorize that when I look the other way my dog turns into a juggling clown and puts on a show. I can suggest that he's had training for years with all the toys he has, and he has plenty of time to practice when I'm asleep too. Dogs love attention after all, and he must have some hobbies aside from licking his extremities!

Because I can theorize that my dog is secretly a juggling canine with stealthy ninja skills doesn't mean it's real. In all likelihood he's not that talented at all. And when I hear his ball hitting the floor in the other room it doesn't really mean he's dropped it while juggling.

You see what I'm trying to say here? You have no evidence for any of what you are saying. Not just no evidence, but no reason to believe what you believe in this instance. You're creating fiction.

The most plausible scenario is that this gunman is not a juggling dog, he's just a dog.

When you find the giant shoes, the clown car, the spinning dickie bow or the flower that squirts water then maybe I'll accept that your hypothesis has some potential merit. Until then the guy is just a regular dog with a mental instability.

Originally posted by longlostbrother
reply to post by DriCo04

 

So, if he'd had a knife, he woulda been able to kill 14 and wound 50 in a cinema?

Probably not, but he'd have gone close with tear gas and armour

I was just watching this witness being interviewed on the msm who was very near the shooter, and dodged his aim. Witness stated shooter had a cannister which looked like a spray can, and he pulled it's top off, some kind of gas was coming out, and he threw this amongst people. sounds like some kind of SWAT team tool. Where would this young man get such a thing?

Just woke up to hear about this tragedy.

Local (Northern California) news reports have run interviews with survivors who state that the gunman began his rampage by tossing teargas canisters and then opened fire on the crowd as panic ensued.

But what caught MY attention was that at least one survivor stated that the attack ocurred at a point in the movie where a similar attack, using gas and weapons against a crowd of people, was ocurring.

my question:

Was this gunman's attack timed for this very specific moment, or is this just a very, very strange "coincidence?


I tend not to believe in coincidences.


But the counter to coincidence, in this case would imply that the gunman (whose mother, it has been reported is a southern California resident, and who has stated that the gunman is her son, and is now flying to CO) had prior knowledge of the film's events and planned his attack accordingly.

Further, given the extent to which the gunman was prepared for this attack (multiple weapons, body armor, teargas, riot/gas mask etc) it would seem that he not only had prior knowledge of the film's Exact time-line, he had this knowledge significantly in advance of the film Premire! to plan and arm himself for the attack!

How was this possible?

Even if he had seem a screening of the film earlier in the same evening (was there an earlier showing?), how could he have assembled his "armory" (which witnesses, again, say mimiced the the weapons in use in the film, at the time of the attack), in so short a time frame?



It may all be just a horrible coincidence, and it is true that I don't see the "media" making much of the parallels, yet, but I'm having a hard time believing the "official story" that "terrorism" is not supected.


Something smells distinctinly like sunburned three day-old SHAD!

reply to post by NavyDoc


Sorry, but no.

If I wanted a gun right now I would have NO WAY of getting one.

You've never lived somewhere with ACTUAL gun control if you believe that.

I don't know a single person with a gun and have maybe seen two, on police detectives, in the 5 years I've lived here.

There's crime, yep, but here, there's almost NO gun crime.

If what you were saying was true, then there'd be a lot of it... there's not.

There are several kinds of crazy, but everytime I see something as disturbing, tragic as this I can not help but feel something more is at play. Mind you, I understand the notion of the human concious trying to correct an inbalance of when something as serious as this happens that there MUST be equally as disturbing of a reason for it, something just as 'heavy' to balance it on. But having said that, I am trying my best to keep from letting my mind run wild with speculation of conspiracy (aside from the fact he obviously plotted and planned to slaughter without prejudice man, woman, and child).

I really wish we had proof this was put in to play from demonic posession, or some secret goverment plot to scare the public out of there freedom(s), or even a alien probing gone wrong. Anything other than knowing a single human being could wake up one morning and decide to walk in to a public arena and slaughter everyone he sees, all while eating his morning cerial...

+I'm not sure if this has been posted here or not, but this is a link to a thread on reddit posted by someone who was in the theatre when the shooting happened..

Reddit post

Originally posted by longlostbrother
reply to post by nixie_nox

 

Come visit Ireland. You won't see a gun for months, years even, at a time.

Chances of being shot are next to none. Cops don't carry guns cause the crooks don't have them.

Same in the UK.

That's 10s of millions of people with almost no gun crime.

If you carried a gun here, for safety, people would report you to the cops for being a nutter.

Now I know you live in a mansion with mummy and daddy

Please exit this conversation. You are out of touch with British and Irish society.

So here is what we have.

James Holmes, DOB; Dec 13, 1987
Apt in Aurora Colorado.
A car with Tennessee plates.
Asking for a Naval Rep?
12 dead.
50+ injured
white sedan that is alleged to be James Holmes car, and it had Colorado plates 119 ROC

One ticket in 2011

Bought a ticket and exited and entered back in to commit his act.

Anything else is speculation at this point.

Originally posted by longlostbrother
reply to post by NavyDoc

 

Use real numbers...

how many per year, across multiple countries (Europe) vs how many a year in the US.

Here's two more from this year in the US:

en.wikipedia.org...
www.washingtonpost.com...

Find three from the first 6 months of 2012 in Europe...

Europe's murder rate of 4.83 per 100,000 is higher than that of the United States' 4.58 per 100,000, but has only 14% the civilian gun ownership of the U.S.
Conversely, the U.S. has 7.33 times the civilian gun ownership of Europe, but a lower murder rate per capita. You focus on mass shooting incidents, but those do not reflect the situation as a whole. You've got three in 2011, which is pretty close.
- April 9, 2011 - THE NETHERLANDS

A gunman opens fire in a packed mall in the Netherlands, killing six people before shooting himself dead.

- July 22, 2011- NORWAY

A bomb attack on government buildings in Oslo that kills eight is followed by a shooting which kills 69 at a summer holiday camp organised by the ruling Labour party on the island of Utoeya, near to the capital. A right-wing extremist is arrested for carrying out both attacks.

- December 13, 2011 - BELGIUM

Three people, plus the gunman, are killed when a man, armed with grenades, opens fire on a square packed with children and Christmas shoppers in the eastern Belgian city of Liege.

Originally posted by detachedindividual

You see what I'm trying to say here? You have no evidence for any of what you are saying.

I do; and that's exactly what they rely on.

Not just no evidence, but no reason to believe what you believe in this instance.

I'm not claiming to be 100% certain. I'm claiming, at most, that I definitely think that things look a certain way; but you're right that I don't have evidence, yet.

We'll just have to wait and see what develops. If gun control law goes through as a result of this, then I won't have anything else, perhaps; but I will have a possible motive.

If you've got a theory on this, which doesn't reduce back down to the usual, "just some random nut," explanation, then I'm all ears. I don't buy the random nut hypothesis any more though, because as I've said, there have been a few too many random nuts.

Originally posted by JailTales

Originally posted by longlostbrother
reply to post by nixie_nox

 

Come visit Ireland. You won't see a gun for months, years even, at a time.

Chances of being shot are next to none. Cops don't carry guns cause the crooks don't have them.

Same in the UK.

That's 10s of millions of people with almost no gun crime.

If you carried a gun here, for safety, people would report you to the cops for being a nutter.

Now I know you live in a mansion with mummy and daddy

Please exit this conversation. You are out of touch with British and Irish society.

Don't even live in the same country with my parents (my dad is dead for the record).

And guess what, I'm friends, close friends, with two Irish cops, and I lived in London for years... so...

wrong on all counts.