common sense: how to beat the tea party in a battle of wits

reply to post by Osiris1953

We don't need all the answers, or have to agree with each other all of the time in order for us to collectively announce that we have had enough. It has to start somewhere.

The world will always be divided on hot-button issues such as abortion because people have different moral compasses. If we have any chance at all in coming together on an issue it should be taxes IMO, but even that is elusive.

A growing percentage of our country believes they have a ‘right’ to make the same amount of money as their neighbor (notice I said “make” rather than “earn”). The way they get this “equality” ( ) is through wealth redistribution which currently comes in the form of graduated tax scales, welfare, food stamps and other forms of government assistance which takes from the ‘haves’ and gives to the ‘have-nots’.

There will always be givers and takers…that’s life. Getting these two types of people to agree is as likely as getting oil and water to mix.

I applaud your optimism though; you have the right idea!

reply to post by XPLodER


Every dollar you pay in taxes is 85 cents they use to enslave and subjugate you and the rest of the planet. Maybe they break off 15 cents for your entitlement programs to buy your consent each year. Is this okay with you? Would you rather be coddled by a nanny government from cradle to grave, knowing that the price is your freedom and liberty, or would you rather stand up like a man and do for yourself?

As someone who has attended several tea party events, I have to say I think you don't know what you are talking about. Tea Partiers are, by and large, NOT anarchists. Anarchists believe in zero taxation. Most tea partiers want simple, easy to see and trace taxes which we currently do not have. Let's just start with the taxes I can think of that I pay. There are the easy ones, federal, state and local. Then there is social security and medicare which I probably won't see by the time I retire or the currency will have been inflated through printing so much that I'll get a fraction of what we paid into it. Then I pay 5% sales tax on non-food items. I pay 2.5% on food items. My utilities, gas and electric, are taxed. My cell phone bill is taxed. The gas I put in my car is taxed. My car is taxed. My home is taxed. If I stay in a hotel, the stay is taxed. If I eat out at a restaurant, my bill is taxed. I'm taxed on investments. Starting in 2013 with Obamacare, I'm taxed if I sell my home and make any profit. I'm taxed if I choose (or cannot afford) to purchase health insurance, a private product. These are only the taxes I can think of. How many more do you think might be out there that I have forgotten? Do I know how much my husband and I pay in taxes? Not a frickin' clue but it's enough. Do the tea partiers have reason to be upset? Ummm, yes yes and yes. Anyone that wants to increase taxes right now is insane. We could create an entire post on the waste, fraud and abuse happening with billions of our tax dollars a year. Please, go to a tea partier event. Don't just watch a news clip on CNN of the few freaks or outright plants in the group and assume the entire group is stupid. It would be the same as saying everyone in Occupy Wall Street is stupid, lazy and should just get a job. Both movements are extremely important. Wall Street and Government are completely out of control.

reply to post by reluctantpawn


Wow, you wish to change the USA so only certain classes have rights and liberty?

If your Christian and upper middle class you should have the right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. If your poor and on governmental assistance you think the government should be able to limit what you purchase and own?

You wish to limit the food people can purchase.

You wish for kids to not have toys.

You wish for mandatory birth control??

You wish to eliminate the right to vote?

And this is America? This is the vision you have for the USA?

The more the tea party speaks the sooner they will go away.

Disgusting.

Enacting these suggestions, how does it create a smaller government, or does it create a huge government?

reply to post by LDragonFire

If your poor and on governmental assistance you think the government should be able to limit what you purchase and own?

If you are spending my money don’t you think I have a say in how you spend it?

That seems reasonable to me.

If you don’t like the conditions then don’t take the money.

Originally posted by Jocko Flocko
reply to post by Thunderheart

 

It's a tough position to be in that's for sure. When parasites in a society feel entitled to your hard earned money it's enough to make you want to "go postal". What has happened here in Canada is many people are now "self employed" in name only and are "contracted" by companies to do work rather than actually being employed on that companies payroll. This allows for huge amounts of "under the table" or off the books type of work where cash is king and the greedy government never see's one penny of it, neither do the entitlement parasites.

I would say 50% of my income is via this method and it has allowed me to actually grow my business and put away for an early retirement.

Making your income transparent to a greedy government and society is not difficult.

And who the hell makes up the difference. Those who have no choice but to pay taxes as employees.

Well done your selfish attitude has increased taxes for those less wealthy than you. Gives yourself a pat on the back.

Please don't give me the well they should self employed nonsense. It is IMPOSSIBLE for everyone to be self employed.

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by LDragonFire

 

If your poor and on governmental assistance you think the government should be able to limit what you purchase and own?

If you are spending my money don’t you think I have a say in how you spend it?

That seems reasonable to me.

If you don’t like the conditions then don’t take the money.

You have no right to infringe on the rights of others. No matter how you justify it. Why should you have more rights than me? I don't approve of the massive amounts of money pouring into the military industrial complex, I don't approve of gitmo and torture, I don't agree with my money being spent on over seas military bases. Yet somehow you think your special, you think you should have the right to dictate how others should live because you paid taxes.

I get such a laugh from one political party laughing at another.

Use a mirror much?

They are all absurd.

Deny the left/right paradigm.

reply to post by reluctantpawn


Margaret Sanger is that you?

reply to post by LDragonFire


So if you smoke, I should pay taxes so you can buy cigarettes? If you are 400 lbs and have obesity related diabetes, I should have to pay for your healthcare even though your personal choice might be to eat cheeseburgers and french fries every day while I eat spinach and workout to try to stay healthy? If you are already poor and on assistance and you decide to get pregnant, I should pay for your hospital labor and for assistance for your new child even though I had no say in you getting pregnant while on assistance? I had no say in whether you are a smoker or not. I had no say in what you choose to eat every day.

If you want freedom, it starts with personal responsibility. You have freedom with unemployment insurance because losing a job is more often than not someone's fault. Should you have freedom when you choose not to accept personal responsibility? Why should I be personally responsible for others who do not take responsibility for themselves?

I get what you're saying that it isn't fair for poor people to have others make decisions for them but I've given you solid examples of where taxpayer money is spent on people making irresponsible choices to begin with. I want to help people but I also want them to want to help themselves. Giving out free money with no strings attached, no social stigma anymore, does nothing but feed dependency for many. We should reconsider every program we have going today and ask the question, "Is this helping to make this person more personally responsible and self-sufficient, or less?"

See, this is the same horse malarky that goes on EVERY TIME taxes need to be raised. Why do they always say "we need a school operating levy... FOR THE TEACHERS!!" Or "We need to raise taxes... FOR THE LIBRARY!!" Or "We need to raise taxes so the FIREMEN and the POLICE can all get paid!!" Its never "Let's raise taxes so the DMV employees or the IRS agents can continue having their comfy cost of living pay raises every year!!"

You mean to tell me that the city couldn't cut some other ridiculously bloated budget item so that they could afford to continue funding the library? Give me a break. They always threaten to cut the stuff that people have been conditioned to feel accepting of (teachers, firemen, police, library, ect.) I'd like to see them say "Vote YES for a .7% tax increase so that Tyrone and his family can get an extension on their section 8 housing benefits."

A tax is a tax whether it be for the library or some crack head his housing and food paid for. We bail the government out every time we vote for another tax increase. Its maddening.

reply to post by LDragonFire

You have no right to infringe on the rights of others. No matter how you justify it. Why should you have more rights than me?

And somehow you have a RIGHT to taxpayer money???

I missed that part of the Bill of Rights….please show me.

I don't approve of the massive amounts of money pouring into the military industrial complex, I don't approve of gitmo and torture, I don't agree with my money being spent on over seas military bases. Yet somehow you think your special, you think you should have the right to dictate how others should live because you paid taxes.

I disagree with some of those things too and we DO HAVE A SAY in those things. Send the right people to do your bidding and you’ll get more of what you want (Hint – Obama ain’t it).

Back to the topic, if you depend on taxpayer money to sustain your life then don’t you feel obligated to work for it or follow guidelines set forth by the people supporting you? You should!

Originally posted by femlibertarian
reply to post by LDragonFire

 

So if you smoke, I should pay taxes so you can buy cigarettes? If you are 400 lbs and have obesity related diabetes, I should have to pay for your healthcare even though your personal choice might be to eat cheeseburgers and french fries every day while I eat spinach and workout to try to stay healthy? If you are already poor and on assistance and you decide to get pregnant, I should pay for your hospital labor and for assistance for your new child even though I had no say in you getting pregnant while on assistance? I had no say in whether you are a smoker or not. I had no say in what you choose to eat every day.

Smokers and drinkers pay much more taxes than you do. Because of sin taxes, they pay more into the system, so should they have more rights to say how everyone else should live? Is the left attempting to force religion and churches to pay taxes? (there not taxed, $400 billion dollar industry isn't taxes)?? If you ax murder your wife, do we all not pay taxes for your imprisonment and or execution?

Its none of your business if some one over eats or has sex.

If you want freedom, it starts with personal responsibility. You have freedom with unemployment insurance because losing a job is more often than not someone's fault. Should you have freedom when you choose not to accept personal responsibility? Why should I be personally responsible for others who do not take responsibility for themselves?

I guess you missed all the news in the last 6 years of how many jobs were eliminated in the US and your going to blame the individual for losing a job that got shipped to India?

Was it your personal responsibility to bail out the banks? If corporations are people why are they not held personal responsible?

Once your taxed its no longer your money, how that money is spent is decided by elected officials.

Huh wow. In case any does not know Troy, Mi is a very, very wealthy area. In addition the city has many large corporations headquartered in its limits. This city also made it illegal to pick your nose and drive (technically). I avoid it at all costs. Which is a pun because they are money-grabbing motherf#ckers. In conclusion, this is one city THAT SHOULD NEVER RUN OUT OF MONEY!

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by XPLodER

 

See that's the problem. Taxes aren't a completely bad thing as long as you know where it's going. See, I would feel GOOD about paying taxes for a library because I use mine weekly. The Tea Partiers there were obviously complete idiots. Maybe they should just issue library cards to everyone that opts out (or in) to that particular tax. That way the Tea Partiers couldn't use the library. That would be swell.

The tea party didn't start off bad the problem came when the Tea Party super stars came along and changed what it was about. So instead of intelligent people you have a bunch of idiot TPers that think that all taxes are the same and should be done away with. That's what happens when you boil down and idea. You dumb it down for dumb people and then you have a mess on your hands.

The Tea Party started out as a good thing. Unfortunately it was co-opted.

My only real problem is the income tax. The income tax should be illegal.

See, we don't need anywhere near as many taxes as we pay.

What's wrong with paying for the use of your library? We all pay it anyway, in taxes. So those who don't use the library have to pay for it, not koesher.

The list of useless taxes goes on and on and on.

The list of taxes that "need" to be paid are relatively small.

Taxes for municipality and city service. I.E. Police and Fire Fighters and Roads. EMS doesn't count, because they charge you 2 grand if you need an ambulance, and that's just for the ride.

We don't need a federal government, we only need state governments, so federal income tax is bunk. All we need federally is a small council to make sure the states comply with the constitution. Anything else is excess.

That is all that is really needed for society.

I'd love to see any nation attack a free society, it'll never happen because the people become the military. You only need a taxed based military if you plan to go on the offensive. Real Talk.

Just imagine if the trillions of dollars that are spent on military power were used for science and education instead....

How many alphabet agencies are there anyway?

I mean, just look at the redundancy, F.B.I. federal bureau of investigation. They investigate and deal with intelligence. Then you have the C.I.A, Counter/Central Intelligence Agency.

Why do we need both of these? We don't.

Then there is the Department of Education. Since we have one, education has declined, I vote get rid of it.

Then we have the T.S.A, Transportation Security Agency. I thought we had police already? X it out.

Then we have The Department of Homeland Security. What do they do that the Department of Defense doesn't already do?

I say x it out too.

Child Protection Agency. What is it they do that the Administration for Children and Families can't do?

I say X it out.

ATF, again.... we have police and the FBI, so why do we need the ATF?

X it out.

The list goes on and on and on and on and on. There are literally hundreds of overlaps... All federal. So we pay to have federal departments on top of our state departments that do the same things.

The truth is, the federal government is WAY to BLOATED. If we trimmed all the fat and made it a lean machine, we wouldn't have to pay anywhere near as much taxes. 95% of the taxes should be state taxes.

Then add this to the fact that major corporations pay negative taxes [read; get paid by the government] and you can see that EASILY the federal government could survive off of corporate taxes if they just taxed corporation owners getting paid billions.

Nobody needs a billion dollars. Nobody. The fact that we allow this to happen has very serious negative side affects on society.


We live in a very inefficient, non-transparent system. It literally needs to be torn down and streamlined and made to be clear. All actions of the federal government should be obvious to the people supporting it. However, it's not. It's veiled in darkness and black budgets....

The real truth is, nobody has a clue why we pay the amount we do, we just do it because they demand it.

If the government garnishes my check for their taxes, WHY DO I HAVE TO FILE?

I mean, they take take take, and when I file I get money back. If I'm getting money back, why do I have to file? Why don't they just send me my check? It's just like the reoccurring subscription scams. They hope you forget so they can keep what's not rightfully theirs.

IMO, the tea party has it wrong, and all those that are pro tax have it wrong as well. We need to restructure and kick the banking cartel to the curb.

Have you ever heard that, money doesn't come from nothing? Well, why then, does the bank get money from nothing? They don't provide a service, they hold your money and make money simply by holding it.

HELLO, scam.

reply to post by reluctantpawn


all hail caesar, reluctantpawn.

please tell the mob more of what they can have or not have.

because your contribution of .000001 cents of your taxes that actually goes to a welfare recipient gives you the right to rule over their everyday life.

while you're at it great caesar reluctant pawn, your mighty taxes also pay for cruise missiles. can you order the pentagon to stop production so the poor mob can enjoy some extra bread.

are you afraid, mighty caesar, to speak up against the pentagon. i don't see any seething anger and rage directed at the military.

they dare use your glorious tax contributions to purchase unnecessary equipment at inflated prices, pocketing the profits to fund lavish lifestyles.

where is your anger mighty ruler, picking on poor people who just want what the rest of the people take for granted, is hardly the mark of a great caesar.

mighty caesar, i ask humbly for the address of your mighty palace, so that i may send you a copper penny, to cover your tax burden and contribution to the poor for this year of our Lord.

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by LDragonFire

 

You have no right to infringe on the rights of others. No matter how you justify it. Why should you have more rights than me?

And somehow you have a RIGHT to taxpayer money???

I missed that part of the Bill of Rights….please show me.

I don't approve of the massive amounts of money pouring into the military industrial complex, I don't approve of gitmo and torture, I don't agree with my money being spent on over seas military bases. Yet somehow you think your special, you think you should have the right to dictate how others should live because you paid taxes.

I disagree with some of those things too and we DO HAVE A SAY in those things. Send the right people to do your bidding and you’ll get more of what you want (Hint – Obama ain’t it).

Back to the topic, if you depend on taxpayer money to sustain your life then don’t you feel obligated to work for it or follow guidelines set forth by the people supporting you? You should!

Hint; Nobody is it. Not Obama, Not Romney, Not Paul, Not Perry, Not Clinton, Not Palin, Not Giuliani, Not Santorum, Not Johnson, Not Alexander, Not Lane, Not Martin, Not McMillan, Not Miller, Not Rollins, Not Snyder, Not Terry, Not Woodring, Not Wuensche, Not Bachman, Not Cain, Not Gary, Not Gingrich, Not Harris, Not Huntsman, Not Karger, Not McCotter, Not Pawlenty, Not Person, Not Roemer, Not Wrights.


I'd give you a whole dollar if you even recognize half of those names. Not a single ONE of those people want to do what is necessary to save America. They merely SAY what they THINK we WANT in HOPES that THEY become the presidential elect. Once they are elect, the power brokers stone wall everything that goes against their master plan.

Anything that goes against Corporate interest, stopped dead. Anything that goes against Federal interest, stopped dead. Anything that is FOR the people, stopped dead.

The answer does not rely on who you vote for. The answer lies in revolution, be it peaceful or violent... The answer lies with the PEOPLE standing up for the PEOPLE.

I happen to believe it can be done peacefully... The US population is 311,591,917. If just 50,000,000 people just up and quit the system and marched in one place, all the power would be removed from those who obtain it.

The problem is everyone is so indoctrinated into the system. I'd say only 2,000,000 people even KNOW of the problems, let alone have any aspiration to do anything about it. The Occupy Movement was it, it came and went because we allowed them to manipulate our opinions of the movement with propaganda. Key words like "Socialist" and "Violence" made us look at our brothers and sisters who were, and currently are, still trying to stand up for REAL LIBERTY with disdain.

We are cooking our own goose.

We need a 500 million man march, and we need it FAST.

The problem is Paradigm. You can't be a Conservative. You can't be a Liberal. You can't be a Moderate. You can only be a PERSON. The real truth is, a PERSON knows some issues must be handled conservatively, others liberally, and others moderately. WAKE UP.

reply to post by XPLodER
I am not a Teas Party Member but after reading your other comments here, I do oppose you and all of you feeding at the public trough parasites, at every turn bub.

reply to post by reluctantpawn

You should not be allowed to vote while recieving public assistance of any sort. [You should not have a say in what you are given by voting in those that promise more. i.e. see ancient Roman Empire]

the ONLY prerequisite to be elagable to vote should be citizenship,
or one side could simply fire massive numbers of their opposition and take them off the role when they apply for welfare,

very slippery slope that one

xploder

Originally posted by Osiris1953
reply to post by seabag

 

Well that is the difficult part since we have become so polarized that common ground is hard to find.

A challenge to be sure, however our current political/governmental system is destructive.

Taxes, abortion, religion, etc, there is plenty to divide us.

We don't need all the answers, or have to agree with each other all of the time in order for us to collectively announce that we have had enough. It has to start somewhere.

star for the truth
peace and truth

xploder