common sense: how to beat the tea party in a battle of wits

This is a good idea.
People do resonate with anger and resentment..they will more likely vote out of anger than logic..so, just show the flipside of an argument presented and let people realize they can have a choice.

Colbertism I guess it can be called...but do it with a straight face for ages and really build the public anger up enough to get off their arse and vote for reason verses do nothing.

Good video, good thread. S&F

Originally posted by reddwhite
reply to post by Thunderheart

 

Well, if you are even close to 50% tax bracket, you sir already make more than enough, which means your complaints are based off of pure unadulterated greed. You have plenty, but still want more, which has led us to this spot in the road, where the greedy gonna have to come off of the golden goose, the starving serf masses ( most of which don't pay any taxes, since tey are already at or below the poverty level, taking money from hem would cruel and unusual punishment.) Can eat more than once a day.

You have absolutely 0 right to tell anyone when they have made enough. You sir are the greedy one who would take what you have not earned.

Question for everyone

If I walk up to you on the street and reach into your pocket to take a dollar because I need it, is that theft?

If and 2 other people walk up to you you and each take a dollar, is that theft?

If now 20 people walk up to you and take a dollar because they all claim they need it is that theft?

I say yes to all even all they way up to the societal level.
These days people like to use their vote to mug people instead of doing it directly on the street but the outcome is the same. You take that which you dont earn.

Originally posted by 11235813213455
You have absolutely 0 right to tell anyone when they have made enough. You sir are the greedy one who would take what you have not earned.

Question for everyone

If I walk up to you on the street and reach into your pocket to take a dollar because I need it, is that theft?

You mean the street paid for by tax dollars?
No, its not theft, because the person whom took it from you used it to make the street your standing on with your righteous indignation

Tell me, if your standing on the street I paid for with my taxes spouting off about how taxes are bad, is it trespassing considering your disowning the street, yet using it...?

derp logic 101...you can't even make a analogy without showing benefits of society via tax and spend collective.
Go read a book...at a library..about how taxes are always bad. Then look up the definition of irony.

reply to post by SaturnFX


Well you see that where you made your mistake. You got caught up in an assumption that I believe that there should be no taxes. This is not true.

TEA stands for Taxed Enough Already. Its not EAT Eliminate All Taxes.

Furthermore almost half the population in America already are not responsible for paying for that street or sidewalk because they dont have an income tax liability. So if i'm in the 50th percentile I'm just barley making enough to pay taxes arent I?

reply to post by 11235813213455


I think you misunderstand my position. I am not greedy, I am not asking that someone takes anothers money. I am one of the working poor, I don't get ANY .gov assistance at all. I just find it to be laughable( well if it wasn't so sad) that so many on here complain about "their money" situation, when they are already making more each year than 3 average Americans combined.

And the whole " taking my money to give others free stuff" line. Have any of you got one single shred of human compassion in you at all? You have plenty, that much was obvious from your 50% tax rate. Truth be told, if you were doing with your money the kinds of things people in your position should be doing, you wouldn't have to pay any taxes at all. However talking about charity, and caring for your fellow man is beyond the vision offered by personal greed, the only thing that the greedy can see is their own need for more.

Originally posted by 11235813213455
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

Well you see that where you made your mistake. You got caught up in an assumption that I believe that there should be no taxes. This is not true.

TEA stands for Taxed Enough Already. Its not EAT Eliminate All Taxes.

Your taxed enough already. Thats nice.
You are a single voice..the rabidly insane tea party corporate movement is a fringe group.
In a democratic republic, minority voices are heard, but majority decide who will represent what interest. The 3 people next to you may like a program and will gladly chip in a few bucks to have it stand and your moaning about also having to chip in has little concern.
We are not a free country (contrary to popular beliefs), and the preamble does not even suggest that is what we are after. We want life, liberty, and the persuit of happiness. See anything missing there? right..freedom...founding fathers didn't suggest we are free to persue personal freedom from the government..just that we can direct it for those 3 principles.
So..taxed enough already is like telling the sun your tanned enough already. Your not going to shut the sun off, but you can perhaps get some sunscreen or find a bit of shade

FOC movement is far more relevant than a TEA movement. Fix Our Corruption...taxes would be fine if we were to walk through the entire fiscal process and eliminate unneeded agencies, red tape, and other things. That mixed with more liberties (stop making some things illegal and instead, regulate and tax em..you know the things I speak of..and funding for many programs would be perfectly fine without raising taxes more..but don't you find it funny the "side" that demands such things remain illegal are the same ones shouting no more taxes?...their liberties are required...but anyone elses is bad)

A small fraction of the US resonates with the TEA message...but if it was a call to end corruption of tax dollars, red tape, and unnecessary agencys/methods, you would have most of america on both sides supporting it..especially the middle of the roaders. Tea party is akin to the PETA of politics..with taxes being the corporate influences they are trying to protect at all costs.

To admit your a tea party member is to admit you have no clue what this country is about...nor is it addressing any actual problem. Might as well just say "I will listen to the koch brothers no matter what! Go Sarah Palin!"

reply to post by 11235813213455


Oh you mean like how you have absolutely 0 right to tell me what I can tell others?

It just seems to me that the haves always act like the have nots are just lazy, and aren't willing to work hard. Lol this is funny, especially considering all the "hard " work that gets done is done by the same have nots that are just to lazy to work. Everyone in the office makes 35k plus a year, to sit in air conditioning, and play on facebook all day, while on the other side of the wall, ALL of the profits for the company are made on the floor by minimum wage workers, without air conditioning, at a break neck pace. Because they are lazy they only actually work in the heat for next to nothing, while the guys in the A/C sit around all day talking and playing on the computer, basically accomplishing nothing for the company, but making all the money.

So who is lazy here? It isn't the have nots. I know I have been one my entire life. I have always worked hard, I have always hd good attendance, I have always been able to accomplis my job with little or no accomidation. I am not lazy, I am just poor, and I will have words with any of you pathetic trolls that try to act like the working poor are lazy. We are not lazy, you greedy douche bags need to pony up your share, just like we all do. This country will not function past tomorrow morning if all of us lazy have nots, took one day off work. The same isn't true of you haves, matter of fact, as long as the pay checks kept coming most would never notice if you showed up at all.

Originally posted by reddwhite
reply to post by 11235813213455

 

Oh you mean like how you have absolutely 0 right to tell me what I can tell others?

It just seems to me that the haves always act like the have nots are just lazy, and aren't willing to work hard. Lol this is funny, especially considering all the "hard " work that gets done is done by the same have nots that are just to lazy to work. Everyone in the office makes 35k plus a year, to sit in air conditioning, and play on facebook all day, while on the other side of the wall, ALL of the profits for the company are made on the floor by minimum wage workers, without air conditioning, at a break neck pace. Because they are lazy they only actually work in the heat for next to nothing, while the guys in the A/C sit around all day talking and playing on the computer, basically accomplishing nothing for the company, but making all the money.

So who is lazy here? It isn't the have nots. I know I have been one my entire life. I have always worked hard, I have always hd good attendance, I have always been able to accomplis my job with little or no accomidation. I am not lazy, I am just poor, and I will have words with any of you pathetic trolls that try to act like the working poor are lazy. We are not lazy, you greedy douche bags need to pony up your share, just like we all do. This country will not function past tomorrow morning if all of us lazy have nots, took one day off work. The same isn't true of you haves, matter of fact, as long as the pay checks kept coming most would never notice if you showed up at all.

Where did I use the word lazy?

And yes you have 0 right to tell anyone they have enough in this life. Its none of your business. Stop being so covetous of other peoples things. If you dont like your situation change your situation, not others.

All taxes are fair game for anyone or any group that wishes to challenge them as excessive or oppressive. Specific taxes can be rescinded in the exact manner they were enacted.

How bout we simply realize that we are being divided against each other for a reason.

Instead of battling over the labels we have assigned one another, we should be uniting against the current system.

Republican, Democrat doesn't really matter, we're still getting screwed.

Question the system that leads people to be at each other's throats.

Compromise or die.

reply to post by 11235813213455


At exactly which point was I covetous? I work, 6 days a week every week, I make $1600 every month ( roughly somtimes more, rarey less) I qualify for .gov assistance, but don't want or take it. I find there to be somthing quite fullfilling about paying my own way, don't know why, just feels " right".

I can have more, I don't have to struggle, at birthdays for my 3 kids, or around Christmas, but we get by alright, we don't have al that we want, but we do get most of what we need.

I don't consider it "taking" your money to help the poor. Truth be told, if your greedy asses ponied up and helped yu wouldn't have to pay as much in taxes. That's why they give a tax break for charitable contributions, for doing the right thing they give you a little tax break.

What exactly is so bad about helping the poor anywyas? We could always go back to the basics, nature rules after all. I could instead of having reasonable discourse on the subject, just come and take what my family needs. We developed charity and the like, to stop predation, man will feed his kids, he will provide for his families needs. You can give a man a decent job and hewill work hard for you, you give a man a crap job that pays #, then keep shackling him with higher costs and little pay, and he will revert. He will stop participating in he system, and instead he will feed off it. At which point, you will wish you had just paid some taxes for poor relief, instead of paying for all the jails that wil be needed to put all the poor into. That is after they rob your house for all the valuables you have wasted all those resouces on, so they can feed their kids.

reply to post by SaturnFX

You mean the street paid for by tax dollars?
No, its not theft, because the person whom took it from you used it to make the street your standing on with your righteous indignation

Tell me, if your standing on the street I paid for with my taxes spouting off about how taxes are bad, is it trespassing considering your disowning the street, yet using it...?

The street in front of my house is paid for with my property taxes collected by my state, not the huge chunk of money I pay to the IRS every payday.

What percentage of a person’s check should the federal government allow them to keep?

reply to post by Osiris1953

Instead of battling over the labels we have assigned one another, we should be uniting against the current system.

What, sir, do you propose we unite against if we can’t even agree that taxes are bad and the federal government wastes our money already?

reply to post by reddwhite

I don't consider it "taking" your money to help the poor. Truth be told, if your greedy asses ponied up and helped yu wouldn't have to pay as much in taxes.

How do you know what anybody on ATS pays in taxes?

Based on what you claim to make, you pay zero income tax while many of us are paying a small fortune. Is that fair to my children?

reply to post by seabag


Yes it is. If you have a fortune, and pay a small fortune in taxes, that is more than fair. You still have a lot left over, which is more than I can say. I don't own a house, my car is 20 years old, I have nothing to pay in taxes, can't squeeze blood from a turnip.

We poor pay more than our fair share, we pay it in blood sweat and tears, the "not poor" pay a little in money. What is worth more?

reply to post by reddwhite


You come out of the gate saying youre not covetous but then the rest of the post is pretty much bashing others for not giving you what they have earned.

reply to post by seabag


Well that is the difficult part since we have become so polarized that common ground is hard to find.

A challenge to be sure, however our current political/governmental system is destructive.

Taxes, abortion, religion, etc, there is plenty to divide us.

We don't need all the answers, or have to agree with each other all of the time in order for us to collectively announce that we have had enough. It has to start somewhere.

After fifty years of life and innumerable discussions I have come to some conclusions.

First a little background info. i am once married to one woman. I have three children. We make approx. 80k a year pretax now. When we first got married 20 yrs ago about 50k. We always pay cash for vehicles. We live in a paid for 3800 sq ft house on 1.3 acres. This on the outskirts of a top 20 city. We enjoy vacations.[ always paid for in cash]. We both have retirement accounts. What we do not have is debt. We do not have a lcd or plasma tv. We do not have but basic phone service. Our cars are seven yeaars old. We do not drink, use tobacco, use drugs, get tattoos, smoke or gamble[lottery included]. We eat responsibly at home. We always give 10% off the top to church. We always put aside some for savings. So we are not rich but better off than the majority of Americans. Why? Our lifestyle is different.

So here goes.

Food stamps should only be allowed to buy staples.[i.e. beans, rice, some meat. not frozen pizza, chips, and soda] If we cannot afford them on what we make you should be able to afford them on MY taxes.

if you live on government housing, you should not have appliances that are noy necessary for survival. [ no big screens, no gaming machines.] You should be required to keep up said property. If recieving govt aid a garden should be required.

Mandatory birth control should be required while on govt aid. If you cannot afford the children you have you sure cannot afford any more.

Work of some sort should be required. If not spending time looking for a job, then you should be required to help keep the city and public housing sectors up.

You should not be allowed to vote while recieving public assistance of any sort. [You should not have a say in what you are given by voting in those that promise more. i.e. see ancient Roman Empire]

if you cannot pass basic literacy tests you should be required to do so before recieving public assistance. [Everyone that is born in the US has ample opportunity to get a FREE taxpayer paid education.[ Public assitance should be unsavory and unwanted. Used as a last resort.

In other words you should be doing your best to get off of it and not looking to increase yourself by it. It should be a hand up not a hand out. I know too many good people that worked their way out of a poor environment to not believe that it is anyones fault but their own. Wash windows, cut grass, pick up scrap. find something to do. It can be done.

We need to cut out the National Endowment for the Arts, Return the education of our children back to the states and do away with the Dept. of Education. We need to close the Dept of energy that has not done anything to help the energy issues. close federal HHs. Limit term of politicians. And cut spending across the board. Instill torte reform and put the burden of expense on the loser of frivoulous lawsuits. Eliminate corporate lobbyists. And I could go on and on.

After we do all this then we can discuss raising taxes!

By the way I don't know anyone in the TP movement that is not willing to pay their fair share of taxes.

Reluctantpawn

reply to post by reluctantpawn


WOW! I could not put it better.

reply to post by reluctantpawn


I can't say I disagree with any of that. In fact, these ideas really should be implemented.