Revelation - Chapter 13

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

This egg of Semiramis is depicted in many medievel paintings, here's a picture of a medievel soldier (Templar Cross)raising his hands in praise and...the egg is above him.

What egg? Looks like a UFOs to me.

Looks like a flying easter egg to me.

reply to post by caladonea



Many believe the things in Revelations have already come to pass. I'm not a history buff, but I'm curious as to what wars might have already taken place with the nations you've mentioned.

Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by caladonea

 

Many believe the things in Revelations have already come to pass. I'm not a history buff, but I'm curious as to what wars might have already taken place with the nations you've mentioned.

I have heard that too...that many say Revelation has already happened. I am now just wondering if it was written too...because (in the future) the author was shown that...history would keep repeating itself.

Originally posted by caladonea

Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by caladonea

 

Many believe the things in Revelations have already come to pass. I'm not a history buff, but I'm curious as to what wars might have already taken place with the nations you've mentioned.

I have heard that too...that many say Revelation has already happened. I am now just wondering if it was written too...because (in the future) the author was shown that...history would keep repeating itself.

Usually people that claim that hate the Jews and the state of Israel. Just ask those folks when the events of Matthew 24 already happened. Or why the nations of Joel 3 are not yet judged.

reply to post by jiggerj

Many believe the things in Revelations have already come to pass.

I don't know anyone who thinks that.
What you have is people who think that the writer of Revelation believed these things were going to happen in his own lifetime.
Obviously these things did not happen and we are still living in the same world that existed when the book was written.
There are some people who belong to various religious cults who think these things are going to happen in some literal sense.
One subgroup believe in a mixture of historical fulfillment with some parts yet to happen. They look at things like the Muslims taking over large parts of territory formerly of the Roman Empire as fulfillment of the earlier stages of the description of the chain of events in Revelation.

Originally posted by caladonea

Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by caladonea

 

Many believe the things in Revelations have already come to pass. I'm not a history buff, but I'm curious as to what wars might have already taken place with the nations you've mentioned.

I have heard that too...that many say Revelation has already happened. I am now just wondering if it was written too...because (in the future) the author was shown that...history would keep repeating itself.

It hasn't happened yet. Micah 5 is believed to be part of it by many, the 7 shepherds and 8 princes and the ships of Kittim (the West) who comes to fight the "Assyrian".

"She who is in Labor" who gives birth to the Messiah's brothers is christianity and messianic judaism who believe in Yeshua and who he is. I think this was the Apostles. The "daughter of Zion" i think was created when judaism split and christianity was born.

Revelation 12:1-2

Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars. 2 Then being with child, she cried out in labor and in pain to give birth.

Rev. 12:6

6 Then the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there one thousand two hundred and sixty days.

The wilderness is also thought to be here in the West by some, where she could be nourished for 1260 days (years).

Ofcourse Rev. 12:1-6 are connected with Rev. 12:13-17 because it is about the woman her child and remnants of her offspring.

In prophetic/biblical language women are religions or churches and their purity is determined by their wings. Wings of an eagle is clean, eagles are clean birds. Wings of a stork are unclean, storks are unclean birds.

So the Daughter of Zion is a woman, so she is a religion (or church if you will). I think she is christianity because there are only 2 abrahamic faiths, and judaism failed and christianity was born from judaism via the Messiah and his Apostles.

Lol, confused yet?

Originally posted by caladonea

Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by caladonea

 

Many believe the things in Revelations have already come to pass. I'm not a history buff, but I'm curious as to what wars might have already taken place with the nations you've mentioned.

I have heard that too...that many say Revelation has already happened. I am now just wondering if it was written too...because (in the future) the author was shown that...history would keep repeating itself.

Revelations describes the end times that would only last 1000 years for the millennial reign and 7 years for the Great tribulation .That time has already expired and that theory has been proved wrong . The people that believe that the events of Revelations has already happened are Pretribulation Rapturist .They must believe it because they can't deal with the Tribulation . Israel had to become a nation again and did in 1948 before time could start running down on the Tribulation clock . One main thing that must happen is for the Temple to be rebuilt . This is yet to happen , but will soon . The Antichrist is bound by God to fulfill prophecy also . 2nd Thessalonians chapter 2 verses 1 thru4 spells this out . Another time stamp on the prophecy is that a global government must be formed and the Mark of the Beast control of money must be possible . Never before was this possible until the advent of the Internet and Electronic money that requires a specific access to that system . Now Possible !!!

reply to post by SimonPeter


No, the people that believe the events of Revelation happened already are "preterists". Pretribulational means we believe we are living in the period of time before the tribulation.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


The Pretreist are by nature Pretribulation Raptutist . They believe in pre trib rapture . That is their basis for their belief . That nothing needs to be fulfilled and there fore they will not have to endure the Great Tribulation .

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

The Pretreist are by nature Pretribulation Raptutist . They believe in pre trib rapture . That is their basis for their belief . That nothing needs to be fulfilled and there fore they will not have to endure the Great Tribulation .

No, preterists believe everything happened at the fall of jerusalem in 70 AD. That group all but died out after WW1 and WW2. Pretrib means we believe we are living in the period of time prior to the Tribulation. And the Great Trib is only 3 1/2 years not 7. Are you thinking of Daniel's 70th week?

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Hello anybody home

The concept of Rapture is Jesus coming back for the Christians that are alive and remain and taking them up to be with him . There are three schools of thought on when this occurs . #1 Pretribulation Rapture is before any Tribulation begins . #2 is mid tribulation before the Wrath is poured out . #3 is Post tribulation after going through it all . The Preterist want to put the Great Tribulation behind them so that they will not have to go through the tribulation .

reply to post by SimonPeter


Calm down, who do you think you're trying to school here? Just a few posts ago you claimed the pretrib camp believed the events of Revelation already happened in the past. That's completely in error. The preterists believe that, the pretrib camp believes we are living in the time before the tribulation and all the events of Revelation are still to come.

Preterism

Deny ignorance. I'm trying to correct an error, but if you want to get rude and nasty I'll let you rot in your folly.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


I was not trying to be smart about it , but the Preterist that I had much discussion with was only interested in putting the troubles of the Tribulation behind them . Their belief was fueled by their desire to believe that they would not have to make that decision where they face death if they don't take the mark . There are people who do not want to think about the seriousness of the matter . That was what I was trying to say .

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

I was not trying to be smart about it , but the Preterist that I had much discussion with was only interested in putting the troubles of the Tribulation behind them . Their belief was fueled by their desire to believe that they would not have to make that decision where they face death if they don't take the mark . There are people who do not want to think about the seriousness of the matter . That was what I was trying to say .

Okay, then you should change the 2nd sentence of your post above. The PreTERISTS think the events of Revelation are past, you said it was the "Pretribulation Rapturists". They aren't the same thing. The PreTRIB folks (which I am one of) believe the events of Revelation are yet to come in the future. The PreTERISTS think the events of Revelation all happened prior to and including the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD. Those guys all but died out after the events of WW1 & WW2 happened and they could clearly see that things were not getting progressively better on Earth.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


You are correct in fact that the believe the 70 AD Abomination of Desolation . But I found that their main concern in clinging to the out dated Idea was that they had a real problem with facing the trials of the Great Tribulation . The Pre tribulationist also suffer from the same anxiety . I used that term incorrectly because they share the same fears .

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

You are correct in fact that the believe the 70 AD Abomination of Desolation . But I found that their main concern in clinging to the out dated Idea was that they had a real problem with facing the trials of the Great Tribulation . The Pre tribulationist also suffer from the same anxiety . I used that term incorrectly because they share the same fears .

I can assure you im not a Pretribulationalist because of any fears. I'd love the opportunity to martyred for my Lord. What generally separates the amillennialist and premillennist camps is their hermeneutical approach to the eschatelogical verses in Scripture. If one tends toward the allegorical method championed by Justin Martyr and Augustine they usually align with the Amillennial camp (Alexandrian method), and if they take a more literal approach they usually align with the Premillennial camp. (Antiochian method)

The rapture isnt a blessing for salvation anyways, its only a blessing for the overcomer. If you look at the letters to the seven churches in Revelation some are told they will be spared from that time we call the tribulation (Philadelphia) and other churches are told specifically they will be sent into the Tribulation (Thyatira).

reply to post by NOTurTypical

No, the people that believe the events of Revelation happened already are "preterists".

Preterism has more to do with Daniel. That Old Testament prophecy comes up because it is mentioned in the Gospel as being spoken of by Jesus.
The Abomination of Desolation is what links the two things together, the Daniel prophecy and the Jesus prophecy. Preterism would see the fulfillment in the destruction of the temple in 70 AD by the Romans, and as the Gospel-predicted judgment. Dispensationalists don't like that because they see Israel as separate from Christianity, rather than Christianity as the fulfillment of the destiny of Israel. They would rather see Christianity and Christians wiped off the face of the earth instead of the old form of Judaism that killed Jesus being Judged. Of course there is an underlying bias against Christianity and in favor of Judaism behind the cult of Dispensationalism that rejects the Kingdom of Jesus as Lord and Christ.
Preterism is the traditional and orthodox view to explain the points brought out in the Gospels concerning the soon to happen (in relation to the people listening to Jesus) judgment against the temple cult of Jerusalem.
Dispensationalism is a nineteenth century invention apparently bankrolled by Zionists in preparation for the planned revival of a Jewish state in Palestine and has no regard for the Christians who will loose their souls as a result of being taken in by the heretical deceptions of that philosophy.
Regarding specifically the Book of Revelation, the traditional mainstream Christian view is to take it as allegory.

reply to post by jmdewey60


No, Dispensationalists don't believe that, that's slander. Christ is the fulfillment of the law and the prophets. We see a distinction between Ecclesiology and Israelogy.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


There is two parts to that Tribulation . Christ comes back before the wrath portion .

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

There is two parts to that Tribulation . Christ comes back before the wrath portion .

Yes, the "Great" Tribulation is only the last 3 1/2 years. And dont forget you have two "wraths" the wrath of the Lamb and the wrath of God. Jesus is not returning as a Lamb, but as a lion. (Isaiah 63:1-4, Joel 3)