Revelation - Chapter 13

reply to post by caladonea


That's weird. I'm going to be pondering this for a while. good find m8

reply to post by caladonea


I studied this a long time ago and I recall people finding my conclusions offensive (early 80's). Back then, I wasn't even able to imagine how some of it could happen, I was sure the bible spoke of a distant future for we didn't have the technology (so I thought). Recently (the past few years), I started searching the net to find the conclusions I came too (I did my studies from the Strong's concordance, translating the texts from Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek, I put an estimated 2500 hrs. into Prophecy study). I have found only one place so far that is close to what my studies lead me to understand. Judge for yourself k, here is a link to some short videos describing some end times prophecies I agree with. God bless.
www.john1429.org...

p.s. I am not affiliated with any organized religion or the link I have given.

Originally posted by jmdewey60

The sea would be the abyss, as described in 11:7.

I always thought certain references to the "sea" were describing this too, such as in Revelation 20:13.

Revelation 20:12-13

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

I think the 10 crowns might be the financial backers of the potential operation or war...

The crowns are kings as the book of Revelation says. Revelation is an amalgamation of all the prophets end times prophecies, given through YHWH. All the prophets hold key pieces of the battle map and the events that will take place.

Revelation 17:12 "The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast.

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

Zacharia 14 verse 12 also tells of the Atomic Bomb effects on the people . There is only one explanation for that plague .This also time stamps the events where Israel gets almost destroyed .

I think it will lead to a nuclear war. People walking around while their flesh rots, eyes and tongues rot in their heads scream "radiation poisoning" at me and...those days are shortened or no flesh would be spared. The only weapon we got capable of wiping out all the people on earth are weapons like H-Bombs, A-Bombs and the more horrorific Neutron Bomb. Looking back through the course of human history, YHWH everytime mankind tries to play God we get a helping of Judgement and we've gotten to the point where our grasp overreaches our arm length. If people think WWI and WWII were bad, whats coming is going to be worse than all the wars in human history, past to present combined.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

1. The beast from the sea is the same beast that the great whore rides.
proof : Both beasts are described as having 10 horns and 7 heads.

Revelation is not set up to be read as a series of proofs.
The symbology is constantly morphing from one thing to another as it goes to different vignettes, for example, the beast from the sea becomes the False Prophet. The seven-headed symbology application goes from a dragon, to a sea beast, to the beast of a city. Different entities with the same description.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n

2. The great whore is a symbol for Jerusalem....as she is accused of having spilt the blood of saints and holy people.... a sin that ONLY Jerusalem is accused.

After an entire review of Revelation 18, I can't help but think that the Whore of Babylon represents Lucifer/Satan as the great merchant and trafficker as outlined in Ezekiel 28. Both the King of Tyrus and the Whore of Babylon are dressed the same and come to the exact same demise while all are watching.

I think there is something significant too in the references in Revelation 18 about everyone appearing to be watching the demise from "afar off". I think everyone will be watching the demise of Lucifer/Satan along with the entire earth from this standpoint. It appears as if the "great city" represents the entire earth in which the great harlot has always resided.

A complete review of the words, "afar off", in the Bible is very interesting.

I'm beginning to think that the "afar off" place in which everyone will witness this event could be this:

Matthew 25:31-33

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne.

32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.

33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


The Atomic bomb is a weapon unlike any other . The RADIANT HEAT from the FLASH of the bomb will consume the eyes and tongue and flesh from your body while you stand . This flash of intense light vaporized a patrol of marching Jap soldiers down to their leather boots ,leaving the remains of the bottom of their shoes where they stood . The blast of the bomb didn't blow the people up or even blow the shoes away . There are pictures where the bones of people were clean of meat and bleached white . Many skulls were not intact as the eyes and everything else was turned into a steam explosion . Peoples shadows were still in concrete today as they shaded the concrete for an instant and the bomb bleached out the area around them .

reply to post by SimonPeter


Actually that verse describes a neutron bomb which is specifically made to only damage living matter.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Actually I disagree . A neutron bomb is a very inefficient bomb . It does not explode like an Atom bomb . The Flash and explosion would be minimal . It's the Flash that Vaporizes the flesh . The eyes would explode in their sockets like a steam explosion . The difference in the 2 bombs is the neutron bomb doesn't have a neutron reflector that would reflect these particles back inward thus completing the fission process of the A bomb thus limiting the neutron emissions . This would cause a large flash and blast . The neutron bomb would emit neutrons with a small blast and flash thus killing every living thing within a smaller radius and with minimal collateral damage or residual radiation after .

reply to post by SimonPeter


What about the verse says it must be "large"? The valley of Megiddo is quite small if you've been to Israel anyways.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


These bombs will be poured out on the Arabs in their country . The Neutron bombs are for fighting on your own soil where contamination will be minimal . Atomic bombs can be large or small .

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

These bombs will be poured out on the Arabs in their country . The Neutron bombs are for fighting on your own soil where contamination will be minimal . Atomic bombs can be large or small .

The valley of Meggido is on their own soil, it's in Israel.

reply to post by jmdewey60

Revelation is not set up to be read as a series of proofs.
The symbology is constantly morphing from one thing to another as it goes to different vignettes, for example, the beast from the sea becomes the False Prophet. The seven-headed symbology application goes from a dragon, to a sea beast, to the beast of a city. Different entities with the same description.

(If I say the correct thing, it is not me who is right.. but God has directed me. If I say the wrong thing, then it is my own mistake)

The seven headed beast always referred to the same thing, i.e that of the end times "beast" kingdom. Notice how it also appears in the chapter about the whore. The whore is Jerusalem... and she rides that beast. Whoever that beast is, it is associated with modern Jerusalem.

The 2nd "beast" is also a symbol for the false prophet... is described as working on behalf of the first beast who is always portrayed abstractly... as the 10 horned, 7 headed beast.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

Revelation 13:11-18 King James Version (KJV) 11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, 14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

It sounds to me like something separate from the first that for fills the first.


When i read over revelations 17 i get the feeling that the church or rome is the whore spoke of and the daughters of the whore would be the churches that came from her and continue in her path.All i ask is that one read the chapter with that in mind and see if it fits better than other suggestions.

reply to post by OldSchoolMom


I took a quick link at the titles in the page you linked, and I had to exit out. Seriously? Religion is more screwed up than politics, methinks. At least politics has a clearly written Declaration to go off of; you guys have the Bible, which is sketchy and inconclusive at best. If the rules aren't vague, the author is. If the author isn't vague, the witnesses are. And if the witnesses aren't vague, the wording is.

There's just no winning unless you stop asking questions. Oh, wait...

reply to post by deadeyedick

When i read over revelations 17 i get the feeling that the church or rome is the whore spoke of

Was the church or Rome accused of having the blood of the saints and holy men?
No... but Jerusalem was.

There are direct parallels between Jerusalem and the whore.

Case study 1. The blood of the saints
Jerusalem:
That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. -Matthew 23:35

Babylon:
And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth. -Revelations 18:24


Case study 2. Boasting followed by sudden destruction
Jerusalem
You said, ‘I will continue forever— the eternal queen! ’ But you did not consider these things or reflect on what mighthappen. 8 “Now then, listen, you wanton creature, lounging in your security and saying to yourself, ‘I am, and there is none besides me. I will never be a widow or suffer the loss of children.’ Both of these will overtake you in a moment, on a single day: loss of children and widowhood.
-Isaiah 47:7

Babylon
How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her. -Revelation 18:7


Case study 3. Their "gold and scarlet" and their destruction
Jerusalem
And you, O desolate one, what will you do? Although you dress in scarlet, Although you decorate yourself with ornaments of gold, Although you enlarge your eyes with paint, In vain you make yourself beautiful; Your lovers despise you; They seek your life. -Jeremiah 4:30-31

Babylon
And the woman was clothed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a gold cup full of abominations and of the unclean things of her immorality – Revelation 17:4

And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. – Revelations 17:16

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I am not defending the church here, just stating that the case for Jerusalem being the whore has biblical validity.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


The Bible is so unreliable that for all we know, a seven-headed alien that's been sleeping in the Marianna trench if going to be awoken by James Cameron's submarine and wreak havoc in Tokyo, who will call it Godzilla. Afterward, Godzilla will lay a bunch of nuclear eggs in New York, which will send an assault team to destroy the eggs and end up blowing up the Eastern Seaboard. America, seizing the opportunity, will launch an attack on Japan, claiming the lizard was their pet project, and World War 3 will begin. In the end, the meek will inherit the Earth...

...In the form of giant radioactive cockroaches. Enter I Am Legend 2.

What? Don't believe me? That's a more conclusive answer than you will ever get from the Bible. Yes, you're welcome. Now go back to being unproductive.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


I'm not reading that the pre Temple war of Gog and Magog is fought in the Vally Of Armageddon . To nuke the cities of the invader would stop their support and kill their spirit . After the antichrist permits the Temple to be built so that he can show himself and sit in the seat of God , the Jews will rebuke him and he will move to destroy Israel . Jesus will then fight for Israel .I believe that this would make 2 wars . Then the 1000 year reign and then Armageddon . 3 wars
No one really knows but there is most probably going to be a war before the Temple, Jesus defending Israel , and the final war where the Hordes of the East comes through the Himalayas to fight Jesus .

Thank you to ALL who have responded to this thread. I am a novice at studying the Bible...and I have a lot to learn.

You all have added a lot of important information to this thread...and given me more to study! I appreciate all the encouragement too.

I am grateful....