Revelation - Chapter 13

TEvery knee shall bend before the Lord ext

reply to post by AfterInfinity

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Well i'm still open for alternatives because from what i read of your quotes jerusalem was being called a queen and not a whore.However my understanding of the bible goes as far as the chapter before me for the most part.
So who would be the daughters of the whore?

reply to post by deadeyedick


Rev. 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

The only man in the history of the bible that had 666 attached to him was Solomon. It's not the number that makes him unique it is what Solomon did. Solomon disobeyed YHWH and ignored his warnings to get rid of his pagan wives, and he fell and turned to sorcery and demon majicks and built idols and altars to Ba'al and Molech for his pagan wives and he sacrificed children to Molech and fell, resulting in his son being punished by Israel and Judea fracturing and becoming two kingdoms.

It is also written he will come from out of Zion, so he will likely be jew or zionist, probably both since he is going to claim to be Christ, he would have to come from Judah and probably Bethlehem. He would have to meet prophetic requirements or ultra-orthodox/orthodox jews wouldn't take him seriously. He's going to be one hell of a fake Jesus because he will fool even the elect if possible. Knowing who comes first will not matter, if you do not have the seal of YHWH on you, you're going to get snookered (Great Deception?).

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


I know this idea may be a little (out there) but sometimes I wonder if (666) might mean the birthday of an anti-christ person...(June 6 1966).

Originally posted by deadeyedick
reply to post by sk0rpi0n

 

Well i'm still open for alternatives because from what i read of your quotes jerusalem was being called a queen and not a whore.However my understanding of the bible goes as far as the chapter before me for the most part.
So who would be the daughters of the whore?

Well, scripture does point to Jerusalem being the Whore. There's the Whore and then there's Mystery Babylon. Revelation gives you hints though...hidden in the prophets to her identity. Even though many Israelites had been apostates in ages passed there were always a faithful remnant like Elijah and the 7000, all throughout the age. Rome will figure into this somewhere, they are not innocent and they too have the blood of the martyrs of Christ on their hands and prophets, because every believer in Yeshua is a prophet proclaiming the kingdom to come.

Originally posted by caladonea
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

I know this idea may be a little (out there) but sometimes I wonder if (666) might mean the birthday of an anti-christ person...(June 6 1966).

No telling. People have come up with all kinds of crap. He wont be revealed until the Restrainer (Holy Spirit) has been removed. Yeshua is the only thing keeping him in check right now, he's the only thing keeping this world from tearing apart at the seams at this very moment. You know when his Spirit is removed he will be coming, because in order for the Holy Spirit to come he had to leave, and in order for him to return he has to withdraw his Spirit. Thats when this world is going to look like we have slid face first into hell and all morality will disappear.

Originally posted by OldSchoolMom
reply to post by caladonea

 

I studied this a long time ago and I recall people finding my conclusions offensive (early 80's). Back then, I wasn't even able to imagine how some of it could happen, I was sure the bible spoke of a distant future for we didn't have the technology (so I thought). Recently (the past few years), I started searching the net to find the conclusions I came too (I did my studies from the Strong's concordance, translating the texts from Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek, I put an estimated 2500 hrs. into Prophecy study). I have found only one place so far that is close to what my studies lead me to understand. Judge for yourself k, here is a link to some short videos describing some end times prophecies I agree with. God bless.
www.john1429.org...

p.s. I am not affiliated with any organized religion or the link I have given.

edit on 7-7-2012 by OldSchoolMom because: (no reason given)

Interesting videos. I have no doubt Pope is going to be involved. Try telling that to catholics and get called a heretic (been there and done that).

I've found at least 5 pagan gods hiding in catholicism, Ishtar, Dagon, Cybele, Mithra and Allah, no telling how many more are in there i haven't found. Their trinity is Nimrod, Semiramis and Tammuz.



I've begun to believe that there is no trinity, because the central statement i see in OT and NT as that YHWH is One. he's not 3 Gods in One. I can't put my finger on how he did it, thats way above my pay grade, i really do not know but somehow Hayah is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Isaiah pointed me in this direction with isaiah 43 and 59 and how Isaiah 63 parellels Revelation 19 and then John 5, 8, 10 and 14. I feel like someone put my mind in a blender and hit puree. I have fought and wrestled with this for months and i'm so tired. Yeshua is YHWH and scripture declares it, i have said my peace.

Amen.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


That was an impressive trick at Christ's baptism then. Quite impressive indeed.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

The seven headed beast always referred to the same thing

It could be a trinity of seven headed beasts, one who is the father, the dragon, then the beast from the abyss, then the one which was on the rivers and was analogous with the seven-hilled city where the whore got her wealth.
The second, two-horned beast is just a fill-in to represent the second of the twin prophetic beasts, Leviathan, and Behemoth (one of the sea and the other of the land), and fills no other role afterwards. The beast from the abyss becomes the False Prophet.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n

There are direct parallels between Jerusalem and the whore.

Case study 1. The blood of the saints

Jerusalem:
That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. -Matthew 23:35

Babylon:
And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth. -Revelations 18:24

Further, even if Jesus had implicitly alluded to Jerusalem as the city upon which would come "all the righteous blood shed on earth," it would still not be the same as Mystery Babylon, for in Mystery Babylon is found the blood of ALL who were slain on earth. That is an even more comprehensive blood guilt than that of which all the Pharisees, scribes, and lawyers were guilty.

In fact, doesn't the Bible say that the Devil was a murderer from the beginning?

Case study 2. Boasting followed by sudden destruction

Jerusalem
You said, ‘I will continue forever— the eternal queen! ’ But you did not consider these things or reflect on what mighthappen. 8 “Now then, listen, you wanton creature, lounging in your security and saying to yourself, ‘I am, and there is none besides me. I will never be a widow or suffer the loss of children.’ Both of these will overtake you in a moment, on a single day: loss of children and widowhood.
-Isaiah 47:7

Babylon
How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her. -Revelation 18:7

Sorry, but Isaiah 47 is referring to Babylon. Where did you get the idea it was talking about Jerusalem?

Case study 3. Their "gold and scarlet" and their destruction

Jerusalem
And you, O desolate one, what will you do? Although you dress in scarlet, Although you decorate yourself with ornaments of gold, Although you enlarge your eyes with paint, In vain you make yourself beautiful; Your lovers despise you; They seek your life. -Jeremiah 4:30-31

Babylon
And the woman was clothed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a gold cup full of abominations and of the unclean things of her immorality – Revelation 17:4

Ezekiel 28 also uses the same description to describe the King of Tyrus/Satan. The only difference is the detailed list of the "precious stones" that Babylon could have been wearing too.

Ezekiel 28:13

13) Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. – Revelations 17:16

What else does Revelation say about Babylon?

Revelation 18:21

21) And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

If Jerusalem is thrown down to be found no more, where will the Anti-Christ rule from?

And do you really think that Jerusalem fulfills the last two verses in Revelation 18?

Revelation 18:23-24

23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.

24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

Do you really think that Jerusalem's merchants are the great men of the earth who have used sorcery to deceive ALL nations?

"Rome or Jerusalem?"
"A Protestant Study on the Whore of Babylon in Revelation"

www.philvaz.com...

By the way, even though I posted this link as an argument against Jerusalem being Babylon, I'm not convinced that Rome is either.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by deadeyedick

 

The only man in the history of the bible that had 666 attached to him was Solomon.

edit on 7-7-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)

If I may interject on this - Adonikam had 666 descendants. Adonikam was a descendant of Parosh - whom Nebuchadnezzar had taken captive to Babylon (Ezra 2:13)

Other than that I agree with your post.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

That was an impressive trick at Christ's baptism then. Quite impressive indeed.

I said i didn't know how he did it. Somehow in some form Yeshua is YHWH's right arm per Isaiah 59. Maybe he's like a mirror image? In the OT it doesn't put much emphasis on holy spirit, he's only mentioned once or twice so it appears he plays a minor role, which is what led me to my conclusion. Perhaps it is YHWH's omnipresence that allows him to be in heaven and on earth at the same time?

Originally posted by OldSchoolMom
reply to post by caladonea

 

I studied this a long time ago and I recall people finding my conclusions offensive (early 80's). Back then, I wasn't even able to imagine how some of it could happen, I was sure the bible spoke of a distant future for we didn't have the technology (so I thought). Recently (the past few years), I started searching the net to find the conclusions I came too (I did my studies from the Strong's concordance, translating the texts from Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek, I put an estimated 2500 hrs. into Prophecy study). I have found only one place so far that is close to what my studies lead me to understand. Judge for yourself k, here is a link to some short videos describing some end times prophecies I agree with. God bless.
www.john1429.org...

p.s. I am not affiliated with any organized religion or the link I have given.

edit on 7-7-2012 by OldSchoolMom because: (no reason given)

Your video site is very good, I use much information from their remnantofgod.org site as well in my own threads (check out my thread in my signature). They are basically a derivative from Seventh-Day Adventist teaching (which is what the videos I posted up earlier were from) and their prophecy but they have found the need to separate themselves from the SDA banner as they see some apostasies creeping into the church (because of strong Jesuit infiltration trying to undermine the church) and they want to remain true to the original/historical SDA message.

This is my own position basically as well, I study all the official historical material and positions of the SDA church and loosely affiliate myself with the actual church (but still recognizing their are serious attempts to undermine them) I have not sufficient reason to separate myself from that church (where I am) at the moment.

They call themselves SDR meaning Seventh-Day Remnant ...

Here is some info from their video link Seeds of Truth

I love the SDA brothers and sisters. It is those who have gone into the church and highjacked it into another organization (Vatican Take Over). Everyone says and knows the church is in Apostasy as the fruits are clearly seen, but they say not to call it Babylon.

Here is a typical example of their position in relation to SDA historical teaching:

Video: Sister White said remnant would leave GC SDA [meaning the General Conference Seveth-Day Adventist church)


Video: What did the SDA pioneers believe?


So I would definitely recommend your link www.john1429.org... as well...just giving some information to people here who might wonder why they are targeting the SDA church in a few of their videos though and where their theology/prophecy comes from.

reply to post by Deetermined

Sorry, but Isaiah 47 is referring to Babylon. Where did you get the idea it was talking about Jerusalem?

You're right. It is referring to Babylon. But a close look at scripture shows that several times, the same language is used to describe Jerusalem and Babylon....

The killing of the saints and holy men.... the adornment in scarlet and gold....Both applying to Jerusalem AND the "city" Babylon.

Do you really think that Jerusalem's merchants are the great men of the earth who have used sorcery to deceive ALL nations?

I think you mean the merchants of the earth who mourn over her.
Anyway, nobody can be 100% sure of the exact meaning of the symbolism used in revelations.

But we do know this.... when the same symbols are used to describe 2 places... we can know that its referring to the same thing. In the case of Jerusalem and Babylon, similar symbols are used for both, similar accusations are made towards both and a similar destruction is foretold for both. . So we can conclude that they are the same.

Revelations 18 (the chapter about the destruction of Babylon) ends with "In her was found the blood of prophets and of God’s holy people, of all who have been slaughtered on the earth.” Once again, a mention of the crimes of killing the saints and holy people and prophets.... a crime that ONLY Jerusalem is accused of.

reply to post by deadeyedick

Well i'm still open for alternatives because from what i read of your quotes jerusalem was being called a queen and not a whore.

Jerusalem was also called guilty of of having the blood of saints and holy men... just like the whore. No other city is accused of this crime... this confirms the the identity of the whore a.k.a Babylon as being Jerusalem.

Jerusalem was also described as being adorned in scarlet and gold... just like the whore.
Or is it just a mere co-incidence that Jerusalem also happened to be described in the same way as Babylon?

Note that the whore is a city.
The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth. - Revelations 17:18

Also, note how the destruction of the whore is followed with the destruction of Babylon. (revelation 18)

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

Revelations 18 (the chapter about the destruction of Babylon) ends with "In her was found the blood of prophets and of God’s holy people, of all who have been slaughtered on the earth.” Once again, a mention of the crimes of killing the saints and holy people and prophets.... a crime that ONLY Jerusalem is accused of.

So far, Jerusalem is filled with the blood of the saints and prophets, but not ALL that have been slain on the earth.

I suppose if the Anti-Christ/Beast/Dragon/Satan sets up their kingdom in Jerusalem and takes over the temple declaring himself as God, then we would have Satan as the main character deceiving all the nations AND the only one who's capable of having the blood of every slain individual on the earth at the same time.

So, yes, I could see it turning out this way as long as Satan is the one sitting in the center of the great city when that day comes.

reply to post by Deetermined


Isaiah 47 appears to be talking about Israel as a whole, not Jerusalem alone. Revelation 17 from my POV is talking about Rome, because scarlet and purple is what the cardinals and bishops wear, the colors of royalty. However scarlet was worn by romans and purple the royalty of Israel.

Personally i'm thinking Mystery Babylon has something to do with all the ancient pagan religions and their modern incarnations, which if you look deeply into catholicism, you will find Nimrod, Semiramis and Tammuz at the core, which all the ancient pagan religions are based on. Father, Mother and Son which is where this representation of the Father (King of Heaven) Mother (Queen of Heaven) and Son (Prince of Heaven) derives from depicted in this catholic painting.



In ancient mythologies, Nimrod was a mighty "hunter" (warrior) before YHWH ( before means he put himself above YHWH and considered himself God). His mother was Semiramis whom he married and created the first one world religion and ofcourse built the tower of Bab'El (gateway to God). According to the myth he died and ascended to heaven and became the sungod. Semiramis was impregnated by him when one of his rays of light shone on her womb and Tammuz was born. Tammuz was a shepherd (and reincarnation of Nimrod), he was killed at the age of 40 in a hunting accident by a boar and the 40 days holiday "Weeping for Tammuz" came to be in which the people would weep and fast for 40 days, one day for each year he lived which today appears in the catholic Lent. Semiramis at one point ascends to heaven and becomes the moongoddess (and fertility goddess) and returns to earth in a silver egg. She emerges naked from the waist up and causes rabbits to lay eggs (and the myth of Ishtar/Easter comes into being).



This egg of Semiramis is depicted in many medievel paintings, here's a picture of a medievel soldier (Templar Cross)raising his hands in praise and...the egg is above him.

Interesting site i found that has a few things to say about Semiramis that is accurate to mythology.

Lastly this comes to mind but, think of the greek myth of Oedipus Rex

aletheia.consultronix.com...

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Isaiah 47 appears to be talking about Israel as a whole, not Jerusalem alone. Revelation 17 from my POV is talking about Rome, because scarlet and purple is what the cardinals and bishops wear, the colors of royalty. However scarlet was worn by romans and purple the royalty of Israel.

Personally i'm thinking Mystery Babylon has something to do with all the ancient pagan religions and their modern incarnations, which if you look deeply into catholicism, you will find Nimrod, Semiramis and Tammuz at the core, which all the ancient pagan religions are based on. Father, Mother and Son which is where this representation of the Father (King of Heaven) Mother (Queen of Heaven) and Son (Prince of Heaven) derives from depicted in this catholic painting.

Honestly, I think as time goes on, we're going to see all of them merging together. I can even see the Vatican working a deal with the Anti-Christ to move/merge their headquarters out of Rome and into Jerusalem to create a combined "great city" or kingdom, but ultimately, I think Jerusalem could most likely be the physical location.

reply to post by Deetermined

Honestly, I think as time goes on, we're going to see all of them merging together. I can even see the Vatican working a deal with the Anti-Christ to move/merge their headquarters out of Rome and into Jerusalem to create a combined "great city" or kingdom, but ultimately, I think Jerusalem could most likely be the physical location

It's already happening. Have you noticed the push from the Vatican to unite all christianity under the Pope again? Have you noticed the rising numbers of jews who claim that YHWH is Allah? The people claiming that Yeshua is Krishna? That all religions have the same God? We have a front row seat to seeing the birth of the one world religion. Just take a look at Bahai and you can see where this is heading, which is straight back to Nimrod and Babylon. Here in the U.S. we have the "Lincoln Memorial" which is an Obelisk and is a giant phallic symbol depicting Nimrod's phallus, and we have a giant idol to Libertas/Ashtoreth (state of liberty) off the coast of New Jersey and Long Island. There's also an Obelisk in Rome at the Vatican, an Obelisk in Egypt. This crap isn't coming, it's already here and it was here 200 years ago courtesy of Freemasonry and other secret societal groups.

Here's a Glenn Beck clip where he is pushing ecumenism "We are all catholic now", government propaganda is shoving this right in our faces.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

This egg of Semiramis is depicted in many medievel paintings, here's a picture of a medievel soldier (Templar Cross)raising his hands in praise and...the egg is above him.

What egg? Looks like a UFO to me.