Republicans’ Ex-Spokesman Calls For Armed Rebellion Over Obamacare

Originally posted by NavyDoc
So do you feel Geico should be forced to insure your car after you have wrecked it?

Should a fit person who does not smoke be forced to pay the same rate as a smoker or someone who refuses to be fit?

Interesting comparison: So you say we should just total them all (read - have them die) before we even try to help them?

How about those with cancer or any other illness? Same thing? Why would we care?

Some conservatives are bummed that Romneycare has been upheld by the highest court in the land. Since yesterday, I have been inundated with and threads such of these, on various social media platforms, calling for armed rebellion, and other such nonsense. Some of my friends have threatened to move to Canada if the president is reelected. I saw a tweet last night that pretty much summed it up:

Conservatives threatening to leave US, but can't find a wealthy western democracy without universal healthcare.

My only problem with Romney's plan is that it doesn't go far enough. Frankly, our workers need single payer if our goods and services are going to compete with the rest of the world on the so called "open market."

reply to post by 0zzymand0s


They're not gonna leave, they are going to stay here and get taxed into poverty, until we are all living off some type of government benefit, and the middle class will be something we read about in history books. That is the end game. That is the direction this government is headed, and it isn't Obama's fault, and Romney won't make it any better, it is just he natural progression of a Central Government. The only way to stop it is to exercise the 2nd amendment rights that were specifically included in the Constitution for this very foreseeable development. From time to time the government has to get the reset button pushed.

Originally posted by nuclear12346

In short, I don't care about your over-inflated sense of self-worth. I, and many others, will die to stop you from bringing down our government even if we don't agree with everything it does.

I'm sure the government will accept your sacrifice to further their agenda. Fact is that cannon fodder is aways in high demand.

Another fact is that this government has already looted the treasury and destroyed our economy. It's only a matter of time until collapse because the situation is too far gone to salvage.

reply to post by Destinyone


I have thought about this as well and I know to some extent the ability IRS has to criminalize those who don't pay there taxes. My brother almost lost his home and that was after years of # from the IRS to resolve his nightmare. They are not fun people to do deal with to say the least.

I think most American's are scared of the IRS and would not have the guts to stand against them.

If they did refuse, well I see the end results being operational FEMA camps. This government is all about control and they will do whatever it takes to keep the masses under their thumb.

Watch the Catholic church here. They are backed in a corner and providing birth control, sterilization, morning after pills and very likely abortion coverage in their insurance would be going their own teaching. The Archbishop of St. Louis said he will go to jail before paying any of the huge penalties they will incur. If that happens I would not be surprised to see it quickly followed by martial law.

reply to post by 0zzymand0s


Well, maybe we should get the hint and create a system that tops all the other systems! Isn't that the American way?

Unless we're better off resigned to the current reality of the health care boondoggle?

reply to post by getreadyalready


Are you guys going to close the borders and end trade with the rest of the world as well? I only ask because the corporitist model has left us on shaky competitive ground in the fake marketplace, but nothing else has changed. We still have plenty of natural resources, we still have the creatives, we still have engineers, we still have skilled labor, we still have the factories, tools, and infrastructure. The only thing we don't have is the faith of the MBA's, and frankly -- I'm not sure a "government reset" can fix that (or if it really matters).

Obviously, YMMV.

reply to post by 0zzymand0s


If we end the corporatist model there would be no need to end trade with the rest of the world. In my opinion, when I speak of "government" it includes the giant corporations. They are one and the same. Those corporations would not exist without government protectionism, and the government would not be so bloated an corrupt without those corrupt lobbyists.

So, the reset button includes both, and once the reset is pushed, our goods, services, resources, and innovation would be plenty to support ourselves, or export to the world as we have done in the past.

Things will take care of themselves once we get the corruption out of the way.

reply to post by The Sword


That's just it. We aint going to sit down and figure anything out, because we are too busy yelling partisan pejoratives across an imaginary line in the dirt.

The left wants UAC. The right wants to let the "free-market" sort it out. Trouble is, deregulation in the 80's and 90's led us into the current crisis, which is that the real cost of healthcare, prescriptions and medicine are up nearly 500% in 30 years, while wages have remained largely flat. The "free-market" has already figured it out, and the end-game is to run every single person in the country through the shredder for their precious bits.

We already pay more per capita in the US for our healthcare, and yes -- if you are paying cash -- we are the best in the world. If you are a struggling at the average per-household income (or less) you are getting healthcare that is somewhere just north of Venezuela.

Ya damn right we could do better, but we won't, because we are divided by ridiculous ideologues and ideologies. These play us against our own best interests in the name of a mythology called "free-market capitalism" which absolutely does not exist. The real name of the game is collusion; a tiny group of people who sit on the board of directors for the top 50 multinational corporations in the world have effectively purchased legislation allowing them to kill their competition in the cradle.

The only thing we are good for is buying their junk, and only until the music stops and we run out of chairs.

Originally posted by 0zzymand0s
Conservatives threatening to leave US, but can't find a wealthy western democracy without universal healthcare.

Had a good laugh about this line.

I for one don't mind paying more if that means that someone else will be provided care for, I wouldn't mind if it was universal - for all developed country to provide health care for everyone in the world... but we humans and our freedom to greed...

IMHO, people just don't know better, and are afraid for new... in next 3-6 months they will notice that nothing dramatically has happened, but at the moment tensions are high... this reminds me of a bar owner in Chicago who discarded all French liquor because France did not support Iraq war...

"There is something going on in time and space, and beyond time and space, which, whether we like it or not, spells duty." W. Churchill

Ron Paul will get America back on the CONSTITUTION.

reply to post by ownbestenemy


What good is tax revolt if the govt thugs with an alphabet name can still bug you and put you in jail. I have yet to hear of a genuine case where people stopped paying their taxes and didn't get harassed. Enough people have to do it as well, not a few or a hundred out of 300 million.
If oh maybe 100 million went rogue with it though, how would the feds enforce Obamacare then? What a mess it would be. But honestly do you see that many going that route?

Originally posted by SuperFrog

Originally posted by 0zzymand0s
Conservatives threatening to leave US, but can't find a wealthy western democracy without universal healthcare.

Had a good laugh about this line.

I for one don't mind paying more if that means that someone else will be provided care for, I wouldn't mind if it was universal - for all developed country to provide health care for everyone in the world... but we humans and our freedom to greed...

IMHO, people just don't know better, and are afraid for new... in next 3-6 months they will notice that nothing dramatically has happened, but at the moment tensions are high... this reminds me of a bar owner in Chicago who discarded all French liquor because France did not support Iraq war...

Unfortunately the true ramifications of the healtcare act will not be known for a while, and premiums have already gone up before any of that even happened. It is naive to think that govt can and should provide health insurance for everybody on someone else's dime. It is just getting coverage too, which does not necessarily translate into better care. If you are worried about the common good, you should be concerned that the level of care for everybody goes down in a socialized system. But socialists won't tell you that because it's not a great advertisement for them.

Originally posted by 0zzymand0s
reply to post by getreadyalready

 

Are you guys going to close the borders and end trade with the rest of the world as well? I only ask because the corporitist model has left us on shaky competitive ground in the fake marketplace, but nothing else has changed. We still have plenty of natural resources, we still have the creatives, we still have engineers, we still have skilled labor, we still have the factories, tools, and infrastructure. The only thing we don't have is the faith of the MBA's, and frankly -- I'm not sure a "government reset" can fix that (or if it really matters).

Obviously, YMMV.

End trade with the rest of the world? Or did you mean the "Free Trade" model brought to us by the Internationalists who have no sense of sovereignty or loyalty? There has always been trade with other nations by all nations. It's just that now it is easier to farther than the nexto locale. We don't require months of travel on ships or caravans across the desert. But even today's shipping requires giant containers on ships or cargo airplanes. We just don't carry spices on our camel's backs these days.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


Once again you fail to grasp reality. Obamacare is not Socialist it is Corporatist. Not one single person is going to be on anyone else's dime than currently or previous to the enactment of the law. What the Obamacare now says to do is that by law we have to give money to an insurance company or we have to pay a tax penalty.

Socialized medicine would be a huge relief for damn near everyone except the insurance companies and Pharma. But, wing-nuts don't like to tell people that.

Originally posted by SuperFrog

Originally posted by N3kr0m4nc3r
It is not healthcare that riles us up, it is the fact that now that they have passed this it basically means that the government can require us to do "anything" or penalize us with a "tax". The government wants you to buy 50 shirt per year, do it or we will penalize you with a tax, you make enough money to buy a house but won't, do it or we will tax you. It is insane, when are Americans going to stand up against the government and tell them NO MORE, you are not our parents or our keepers, you will not tax us to death, you will not regulate our freedoms. If I want to sit my behind on a couch with a 64oz soda, a pizza and a cheesecake smoking a cigarette I will do it, I don't need the government to regulate what I will and won't do. Maybe he is right, maybe we should remember the Stamp Act, and the Tea Tax, is it really gonna take another Boston Massacre?

You sire have wild imagination...

Don't you think that you are a bit over-dramatizing situation?

No one is taxing you to death, nor is anybody taking away your freedom by giving everyone affordable health care.

You really will compare affordable health care bill with tea tax?

No, he is not over-dramatizing by any means. He/she is entirely correct. People are very naive about all this Obamacare stuff. It is a huge overreach by the govt and will result in bankrupting further our already bankrupt economy, and ruin the level of healthcare we have now with more federal bureaucracy. But then if you love the DMV and those sourpuss faces that help you after you waited in those long lines, you're gonna LOVE the healthcare version of it!!! Especially the part where they convince you that it's time to allow them to off you to benefit the rest of your family because you are nearly terminal. The ruling that just came down from the Supreme does indeed mean that govt can force you to purchase a product of any kind and tax you if you don't.

reply to post by getreadyalready


Oh please.

Taxed into poverty?

Since when has pushing doom ever been profitable?

You know, I'd feel much better knowing that my taxes are going toward something productive (health care) than something detrimental (war).

I may say differently in a few months but for now, I'm sticking with it.

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

 

Once again you fail to grasp reality. Obamacare is not Socialist it is Corporatist. Not one single person is going to be on anyone else's dime than currently or previous to the enactment of the law. What the Obamacare now says to do is that by law we have to give money to an insurance company or we have to pay a tax penalty.

Socialized medicine would be a huge relief for damn near everyone except the insurance companies and Pharma. But, wing-nuts don't like to tell people that.

Kali, you and I are going to go round and round forever on this issue. You still do not understand the process of going from Capitalism to communism using Fabian socialism in increments. This is incremental. The Left thinks it is no good because they didn't get the single payer option which is what would make it truly "Universal". They want nothing less than complete govt takeover of every aspect, which would mean the centralized govt would control the production of bandages and syringes too. That will occur in increments too, you just don't know it yet. When private insurance companies fail, govt will grow increasingly powerful and controlling and there will be fewer and fewer private options. People have already said this, but you were not listening or you don't believe it. Even the insurance companies may feel it's a good deal temporarily because it means more people buying product from them, but in the long run it will be one of the most destructive and communistic things ever to happen in this country.

Also, if people are purchasing their product through the govt, which is what the plan really entails, it will be a subsidized version, otherwise the govt would not be able to say they can provide lower cost insurance coverage. How else can govt provide a lower cost product without subsidizing it through taxpayer donations? It will still be redistribution of the wealth only in a very stealthy manner.
Further, I believe that some of this manufactured economic crisis is part of the plan to force more and more people into socialized health care as the Nanny State answer to the problem. Remember problem/reaction/solution...it's the Hegelian Dialectical process.
Further, we already have a partially socialized system resulting from previous administrations who were socialistic.

The push for increased government involvement in the administration of health care in the United States dates back to 1912, when presidential candidate Theodore Roosevelt, campaigning on the Progressive Party ticket, called for the establishment of a national health insurance system modeled on what already had been established in Germany.

The proposal languished until the Great Depression, when a 1932 a governmental panel known as the Wilbur Commission reported that millions of Americans were unable to afford adequate medical coverage and recommended the expansion of group medical practices and group prepayment systems wherein the financial risks associated with potential illness or disability could be shared by many people who were covered by the same insurance company.

And don't think that just because govt is controlling something, that it will do so in an effective way.

In 1997 President Bill Clinton signed legislation to create the State Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP), an initiative designed to provide federal matching funds (to states) for health insurance covering children whose family incomes were modest but too high to qualify for Medicaid. Because SCHIP's funding formula gave states an incentive to add middle-income youngsters and even adults to its rolls, the program's costs spiraled out of control. By 2008, the SCHIP program covered not only 7 million children but also 600,000 adults in fourteen states; in six states, more SCHIP money was being spent on adults than on children -- even as the program had still failed to enroll almost 2 million children who qualified financially.

And to put to rest that this whole thing started with Romney and crafted by GOP

During his 2008 presidential campaign, Democrat Senator Barack Obama promised to bring about sweeping health-care reforms for the estimated 47 million Americans he claimed could not afford health insurance. Obama had long advocated the creation of a federally administered, government-run, “single-payer” health care system. But when it became clear that such a plan would be too politically unpopular to have any chance of passing in the form of a single, sweeping piece of legislation, Obama and Congressional Democrats crafted a bill whose aim was to pursue that same ultimate objective in incremental steps rather than all at once. The chief method of promoting such incrementalism was the bill's call for the establishment of health care "exchanges" through which people could purchase government-subsidized coverage. Details of this are provided below, in the section titled: "How Obama and the Democrats Laid the Groundwork for an Incremental Move Toward a Single-Payer System."

www.discoverthenetworks.org...

Incidentally, my original comments were before I even read the Discover The Networks article.

Originally posted by The Sword
reply to post by getreadyalready

 

Oh please.

Taxed into poverty?

Since when has pushing doom ever been profitable?

You know, I'd feel much better knowing that my taxes are going toward something productive (health care) than something detrimental (war).

I may say differently in a few months but for now, I'm sticking with it.

The middle class is shrinking, that much is a fact. There are more people on government dependence than ever before, that much is a fact. The wealthy showed a significant increase in wealth during this recession, that much is a fact. The cumulation of taxes is at an all-time high (although income tax is about average), so it certainly has some part in all of this. Higher taxes mean less small businesses, less sole proprietors, less new businesses, and more and more people taking lower paying jobs.

Yes, taxed into poverty, but not to worry the Federal Government is there to catch us.

reply to post by getreadyalready


I have very little, if any faith in the "free market" as well to fix all of our problems.

I don't see this "reset" coming any time soon as well.

Everyone peddles a grand solution (the tripe from Wilcock & Fulford, anything claiming to "restore" America, etc) but there is no true incentive to force implementation of such solutions.

Plenty of dreamers, very few actors.