I joined the Communist Party

Here is another descrition of your so famous red revolution...

What is the Red Terror?

During the Spanish Civil War of the 1930s, many of the Republican forces were violently anti-clerical anarchists and Communists, whose assaults during what has been termed Spain's red terror included sacking and burning monasteries and churches and killing 6,832 members of the Catholic clergy.

One scholar noted that despite the fact that "the Church...suffered appalling persecution" behind Republican lines, the events have been met by much silence and even attempts at justification by some scholars and memoirists. In the Spanish Civil War's first months most of the killing did not come from combat on the battlefield but from executions.

The Red terror started with the murder of some surrendering rebels as the revolt faltered in some of the cities, and it expanded to widespread detentions, and even mass executions, of individuals related to the right or to the Church. It was not the spontaneous act of mobs but was at least partly organized and carried out by virtually all the leftist groups with the exception of the Basque Nationalists.

Unlike the repression by the right which concentrated on its most threatening opponents, the Red terror groups acted seemingly irrationally, "murdering innocent people and letting some of the more dangerous go free". The Catholic clergy was a primary target of the Red terror, despite the fact that the vast majority was not involved in active opposition.
...

www.blessedjuanduarte.com...

Yeah, the socialist/communists LOVE to go after innocent people...

Once again let's show some facts to socialists/communists wannabes...

In sum the communist probably have murdered something like 110,000,000, or near two-thirds of all those killed by all governments, quasi-governments, and guerrillas from 1900 to 1987. Of course, the world total itself it shocking. It is several times the 38,000,000 battle-dead that have been killed in all this century's international and domestic wars. Yet the probable number of murders by the Soviet Union alone--one communist country-- well surpasses this cost of war. And those murders of communist China almost equal it.

www.hawaii.edu...

That's without counting the over 12 MILLION murders by the NATIONAL SOCIALISTS/ aka NAZIS under HItler's command, and the over 300,000 under NATIONAL SOCIALIST Mussolini, both being SOCIALISTS, but wanting to invent their own kind of socialism...

Yet, despite all the millions of murders caused by the socialists/communists, and the millions of people who have been/are imprisoned for not wanting to bow down to socialism/communism we have IGNORANT FOOLS who still want to implement the DISEASE that is these ideologies?...

Originally posted by Torbu

Anyway the Spanish Civil War was a brutal war as all civil wars. Accusing the left side of war crimes knowing what the other party did is just a terrible idea.
...

The REDS went after DISARMED PEOPLE... They murdered clergy, oh my clergy are so dangerous with their crosses, and anyone who they thought was religious or a capitalist...

The rise of Franco came right after because of these attrocities the REDS were causing.

Franco was no saint, but his attacks against communists and other leftwingers such as socialists and anarchist who were part of the Red Terror in Spain happened because of what the REDS did...

If the REDS had been allowed to continue their murdering spree there would have been a LOT MORE people murdered because Spain has ALWAYS been a Catholic nation, with a majority of people being catholics...

IN ONE SUMMER ALONE the REDS murdered from 38,000 - 100,000 people... They had to be stopped...

And please, don't talk about who was worse... Socialists/communists haver murdered more people in 80 years than all world wars, and other wars combined...

Originally posted by Torbu
reply to post by nenothtu

 

Once again my fault, for not expressing myself clearly enough, I should have written "the democratic and free societies" or say something like "western capitalism".

I really don't think and I did not want to mean that communism is opposite to democracy which really is a nonsense.

Communism and capitalism are opposed. Democracy or dictatorship are also opposed but compatible with both capitalism or communism.

That is true, because socialism and capitalism are economic systems, and democracy and dictatorship are political systems. One can mix and match them in any combination one desires.

I disagree that democracy and dictatorship are opposed, however. The very act of engaging in a pure democracy makes dictators out of 51 percent of a population, and leaves 49 % of it at their mercy.

Originally posted by hawkiye
Please buy a water filer immediately and stop drinking tap water sodas and other highly processed drinks and food. Turn off CNN and the TV for a while. Look into doing a cleanse and try to eat as clean as you can.



Seriously man you need to reconsider.

...And add a good colon cleaning regimen soon.

You know it's funny, on Rense earlier today I linked to a serious article entitled Why Smart People Do Dumb Things. Or something like that. You seem intelligent, maybe like the people the article was about. Really, the article was serious. Many of us know bright people that simply are not very world/street smart. Are you one of those?

reply to post by nenothtu


I think we finally agreed not only that we disagree but at what point!

Now when I say society I really mean the whole thing... Do you really think you can live without all the stuff that you can not build for yourself... like a car for example? Or I can even be more evil and tell you that no society would mean that you had no education as the knowledge you acquired learning astrophysics was a society product...

Let's be clear, what you'd like to do is pay as little as possible and try not to consume any resources... but even then your very own language was a product of society...

Apart of that I can tell you that your lifestyle sounds a lot like mine. Only difference being that if I was in your position I'd feel happier if I'd be able to further use or develop my Astronomy or Physics knowledge.

Oh, and about Spain, I strongly disagree with your statement. The root of the problem is nowhere near the social services being too expensive. The problem, in my opinion, is a lot worst than that. Spain, contrary to you did not manage to be self-sufficient and is using some huge credit cards, but the interest rates but it does not have any control over the interest rates. Then Spain also is each day a little less educated and a little less productive or efficient of that matter. There are no incentives for an american or anyone really to come here and open a business. So even as Spain is and was spending less and less it got it each day harder to get to the end of the month when it needs to get more money to cover the big credit cards. At the same time the creditors ask for increasingly higher interest rates... so it's a disaster waiting to happen. The sad thing is that Holland or Germany put their pension money on Spain! So if Spain fails, I mean when Spain would fail... it'll just be the beginning of some really big fireworks.

Originally posted by ANOK

Have you ever read about the Spanish revolution? I doubt it. That is the only time socialism has really been tried on a nationwide scale, and it was successful. But of course you won't care about that because your mind is already too far gone to come back to reality.

A three year run, huh? You don't say,,,

A three year run can be considered a "success" if you only expected it to run for two years before implosion. Otherwise, not so much...

reply to post by nenothtu


Let's not be cynical, the Spanish republic, which was democratically elected, ended with a military coup d'etat which started the civil war.

reply to post by nenothtu

your civilization values

My civilization????

You alien????

FYI: I have never bought any of Madonna's music, videos or music................never given her a penny of my money.

Have given what little I can give to the homeless, abused children and animals but no, last concert I went to was a Moody Blues.

Don't support the entertainment industry.

Yes my husband has cable............but he's the one bringing in the big bucks and I'm now "retired" (job of 16 years outsouced).

FYI: This is not my civilization.

I don't use a cell phone
Rarely watch TV
Do not subscribe to any magazines except AARP

And do not support 99% of the frap this "civilization" condones.

In fact, sometimes I actually feel I'm the last human among "the pod people".

Humanity is changing and not for the better.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by beezzer
If I, beezzer, were to join the "communist" party, could I still make oodles of money and keep it?

No.

Would I have to pay out anything?

All of it.

Could I still keep my guns?

No.

Could I still say what I wanted?

No.

And this website would not be here. It's frivolous. The money to keep a website like this going, would instead go to those at the bottom of the rung. It would pay to support people like those you see on the Maury or Springer show. You could say goodbye to the internet and freedoms because everyone would be working to support each other. WORK would be your life. Take a look at what I quoted ...

ETA - and you wouldn't be able to worship as you wish. Look at what the communists have done to people who wish to worship in Portugals history .. in Cuba ... in Russia .. in China ...

edit on 6/13/2012 by FlyersFan because: (no reason given)

Interesting.

Note that only you replied to my questions.

Hmmmm. . . . . . . . .

reply to post by beezzer


I don't know about the communist party but when fully implemented, theoretically:

You won't be able to make money nor it will be any point in doing so.
You won't have to pay for anything at all.
You can keep your guns, i'll assume you'd use them to haunt, so maybe you are going haunt for rest of the people in your town too?
Sure you can say what you want and it should be provided... You will get reasonable amounts of the requested items, and reasonable items... like you won't be able to ask for a plane for you to put into your front garden but should you need to make a plane trip it should be provided to you.

I hope you'll now be a happier rabbit!

Originally posted by Torbu
reply to post by nenothtu

 

Let's not be cynical, the Spanish republic, which was democratically elected, ended with a military coup d'etat which started the civil war.

You want to be cynical?.. the leftists/REDS which were communists, socialists and anarchists decided to go not only against capitalists but against religious people in a predominantly religious nation... The REDS/leftists dug their own grave which allowed for Franco to raise and go after the REDS/leftists...

Socialists/communists and even anarchists showed once again their true colors in the small time they got control of parts of Spain...

The same thing happened in response to the Muslim crusades in the 7th century, the Christian crusades rose in response to what the Muslim crusades did to Spain and parts of Europe...

Originally posted by Torbu
reply to post by nenothtu

 

I think we finally agreed not only that we disagree but at what point!

Now when I say society I really mean the whole thing... Do you really think you can live without all the stuff that you can not build for yourself... like a car for example? Or I can even be more evil and tell you that no society would mean that you had no education as the knowledge you acquired learning astrophysics was a society product...

Yes, I can live with what I only produce myself - I have done so, for extended periods. Especially when I was growing up. I don't have a car now, and have not had one for a number of years. they are a convenience, not a need. I can build a house, I can grow my own food and tote my own water. Everything beyond those are "wants", rather than "needs".

Education is a product of experience rather than society, but you are correct, my education at university was a product of society - a useless one, to be sure, but a product all the same. It was not a "need", nor particularly useful. It was just for myself, and I could have made it the rest of my life without it.

Let's be clear, what you'd like to do is pay as little as possible and try not to consume any resources... but even then your very own language was a product of society...

paying isn't a problem - provided I get what I pay for. Consuming resources would be limited to what I can get to consume, not what society says is good for me. I believe society is a product of language, rather than the other way around - people were surely able to communicate before society existed, or they would never have been able to coordinate sufficiently to produce one.

Apart of that I can tell you that your lifestyle sounds a lot like mine. Only difference being that if I was in your position I'd feel happier if I'd be able to further use or develop my Astronomy or Physics knowledge.

No, we're not all that different. People are people. Astronomy is a hobby to me, and I develop that knowledge as the opportunity presents itself, but I have no aspirations to make any use of it. My particular concentration is "local" space, and how it is structured in 3 dimensions. There's not a lot of call for that sort of thing until man eventually ventures out into the stars, and then it will be used almost exclusively for navigation purposes. Just as ancient navigators in wooden sail boats used the stars to navigate in 2 dimensions, "sighting" on stars will allow people to fix their position in 3 dimensions among the stars.

There's not a big call for that sort of thing these days.

Oh, and about Spain, I strongly disagree with your statement. The root of the problem is nowhere near the social services being too expensive. The problem, in my opinion, is a lot worst than that. Spain, contrary to you did not manage to be self-sufficient and is using some huge credit cards, but the interest rates but it does not have any control over the interest rates. Then Spain also is each day a little less educated and a little less productive or efficient of that matter. There are no incentives for an american or anyone really to come here and open a business. So even as Spain is and was spending less and less it got it each day harder to get to the end of the month when it needs to get more money to cover the big credit cards. At the same time the creditors ask for increasingly higher interest rates... so it's a disaster waiting to happen. The sad thing is that Holland or Germany put their pension money on Spain! So if Spain fails, I mean when Spain would fail... it'll just be the beginning of some really big fireworks.

I'll accept your assessment, since you are a lot closer to the problem than I am, living there. I have to ask, though, on what Spain was spending all the money they were borrowing?

You see, I have this peculiar notion that government should only spend what money is necessary to govern, to run itself, since that is really the purpose of government - to govern. the smaller the government, the less money it would need. In most places, when government extends itself beyond it's remit, and gets into social areas, it then has to spend more and more to support the social programs, and eventually starts borrowing money to make ends meet, just as happens within a family that overextends itself.

In short, I believe that government exists to govern, not extend social blankets over the population. That would, to me, be the responsibility of society, not government. I think a lot of people tend to confuse the two, and reach the conclusion that government "owes" them something which it doesn't.

Originally posted by Torbu
reply to post by beezzer

 

I don't know about the communist party but when fully implemented, theoretically:

You won't be able to make money nor it will be any point in doing so.
You won't have to pay for anything at all.
You can keep your guns, i'll assume you'd use them to haunt, so maybe you are going haunt for rest of the people in your town too?
Sure you can say what you want and it should be provided... You will get reasonable amounts of the requested items, and reasonable items... like you won't be able to ask for a plane for you to put into your front garden but should you need to make a plane trip it should be provided to you.

I hope you'll now be a happier rabbit!

edit on 13-6-2012 by Torbu because: (no reason given)

But if I want to live in a big log home next to a lake (stocked with trout) I should be able to work, earn money, and have it, right?

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Assuming you'd be right, despite that you are not, your logic, once again is:

"Those socialist/communist were criminals!"
"Therefore anyone talking about socialist/communism ideas, are as guilty and potentially as guilty and criminal"

Is that correct?

Originally posted by Torbu
reply to post by nenothtu

 

Let's not be cynical, the Spanish republic, which was democratically elected, ended with a military coup d'etat which started the civil war.

I can't help it - I AM cynical!

I understand there was a coup d'etat, and a civil war, but if the majority of the population was happy under the former system, how did the minority who wasn't manage to over ride them? Those are the questions we need to look into in order to find the failure point in Spanish Socialism.

If Socialism made every one happy, and it made resources abundant, how is it that the majority couldn't find the resources to overcome the minority?

Originally posted by Torbu
You can keep your guns ... Sure you can say what you want and it should be provided... You will get reasonable amounts of the requested items, and reasonable items...

That's not the way it works in Cuba or China.
And who decides what is 'reasonable'?
One persons' version of 'reasonable' isn't anothers.

Originally posted by ofhumandescent
reply to post by nenothtu

 

your civilization values

My civilization????

You alien????

You just can't ever tell across the internet!

For whatever reason, I don't consider myself a part of your society. It seems bound for destruction and ultimate madness to me.

FYI: I have never bought any of Madonna's music, videos or music................never given her a penny of my money.

Have given what little I can give to the homeless, abused children and animals but no, last concert I went to was a Moody Blues.

Don't support the entertainment industry.

That is your prerogative, and I applaud you for it. It doesn't change the fact that "society" at large found value in her music, or they would not have supported her with all that money. See what I mean? It's bound for destruction and ultimate madness!

Yes my husband has cable............but he's the one bringing in the big bucks and I'm now "retired" (job of 16 years outsouced).

FYI: This is not my civilization.

I don't use a cell phone

Rarely watch TV
Do not subscribe to any magazines except AARP

And do not support 99% of the frap this "civilization" condones.

In fact, sometimes I actually feel I'm the last human among "the pod people".

Humanity is changing and not for the better.

OK, so you are an alien, too. Welcome to the Universe! There are more civilizations than just the one, and they rise and fall with some regularity - make your own! It's the human way.

reply to post by FlyersFan


We use subforum of ATS in order to vote if it's reasonable or not, of course!
Or you have a group of experts that take a decision about it, using a private forum, also here at ATS :p!

Originally posted by Torbu
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

We use subforum of ATS in order to vote if it's reasonable or not of course!
Or you have a group of experts that take a decision about it, using a private forum, also here at ATS :p!

Why can't I decide what is reasonable for me.

reply to post by beezzer


Do you throw your garbage on the street instead of using garbage can?

If you do then you are irresponsible, hence you don't have the authority to make that decision as you tend to make ill decisions.

If you use a proper garbage can and you understand why recycling is important you'd also understand that resources are limited therefore you'd be able to decide by yourself.