I joined the Communist Party

reply to post by ANOK

How do private individuals start businesses? 

But you are against privately owned businesses so how does a non-private business get started?

There is nothing stopping anyone from starting a cooperative worker owned company. All it takes is people to realise that is would benefit all of us, and is the better economic model. But of course people are not even taught that there is an alternative to capitalism. 

Wait how is that possible in this evil capitalist system that oppresses the workers and places the wealth in the hands of the few via monopoly?... Oh wait a minute it happens because of the freedom inherent in capitalism of which their is still a remnant despite government interference and by the way those businesses are all privately owned still! If you get 100 private individuals together to start a business/coopertive it is still a private business.

Starting an employee owned business/cooperative has been going on since the inception of the evil capitalist American system known for providing prosperity and highest standard of living for the largest amount of its people in the history of the world. All done voluntarily by private individuals!

Which begs the questions what the hell is wrong with you people who claim to promote communism why don't you quit the romantic BS speeches and labeling and get off your asses and go start one of these businesses and live your dream?

If communism is all about freedom why hasn't the communist party created a bunch of these businesses but is instead recruiting an army of people instead for what exactly? What are you waiting for you don't need to recruit a bunch of people to the supposed cause you need to get to work! If you build it they will come right? Or do you want someone to hand it to you? Or government to kill off all the evil capitalist supposedly holding you back? You said there is nothing stopping anyone what is stopping you?

I would imagine a hundred workers could finance a company as well as any private individual. What is stopping them other than the monopolization of wealth in the hands of the few?

Wait a minute you said there is nothing stopping anyone now you are claiming monopolization of wealth is stopping them? How come it didn't stop all those 1100 businesses you point to who are already doing it?

There is also revolution, like in Spain. Once the means to produce are in the hands of the workers there is no need for finance.

Oh I see you don't want to work for it you want to steal from others who created it under the guise that the means of production belongs to you by default. I got news for you the means of production is every individual who decides to get off their ass and go to work!

Take note here folks this is the real message these communist who claim its all about freedom are sending; it is all about revolution and taking control of that which they have not earned. They don't want to put in the hard work it takes to start a business or even a cooperative they want to steal from others who have already created it. They are no different then Stalin or Pol Pot despite their freedom rhetoric. 

To you communists most of the wealthy people in America earned it the old fashioned way and they are entitled to keep the fruits of their labors! It is a few elitist corps that are politically favored that have exploited us. So don't blame all so called rich people they worked hard for what they have! That is more Marxist Stalinist BS rhetoric!

There are around 11,000 worker owned companies in the USA. That is socialism, not what your government is doing, or what happened in Russia.

Why didn't the monopolies prevent these businesses from getting started since you claim its what's holding you back? What's it got to do with government? See I told you folks these people want to bring government force to bear to force their views on everyone else and steal from rich people what they did not earn.

Continued in the next post...

reply to post by ANOK

Continued from the previous post...

Let me tell you something slick my wife works for one of these employee owned businesses and it is one of the biggest and best in the country. Its a great place to work but it is not anything like you imagine. It was started by a small group of private individuals who pooled their "capital" and went to work and built a business and grew based on their merit.

It has employee stock sharing and profit sharing. She had to get hired like any other employee in any other business and work her way up the ladder. And she could be fired if she messed up enough. It has all the same problems as any business some people are lazy and some think they are not compensated enough for the work they do others work their ass off and are relatively happy and some just want a free ride.

It has a code of discipline however if you are sanctioned by a manager and you feel it was unfair you can appeal to an employee board to review it and their decision stands even over the manager. Different jobs are compensated at different rates depending on what they entail. Like I said it is one of the better places in the country to work and one of the most fair on how it treats and compensates the employees and shares the profits. It is not the romantic hey the workers are in charge everyone is equal BS rhetoric we are hearing on this thread.

There has to be a structure of hierarchy or nothing would get done and no decisions would get made when needed. You can't have a group pow wow on every little thing someone has to have authority to make snap decisions in a timely manner for many things. And there are always a few who feel they are slighted.

These communist are lazy they join some BS cause instead of going to work creating what they want. it is a broke loser mentality the man is holding me back or I'd be rich blah blah. Especially in America where despite all the problems and government interference it is still possible to go out and create a business cooperative if one so desires. So go do it put up or shut up as the saying goes and drop the labels and the rhetoric otherwise you are nothing more then a wannabe Stalinist!

Originally posted by Torbu

Man... take it easy! No one here is talking about dictatorship!

Perhaps you are too naive to believe that, but in fact that is exactly what you are asking...

Originally posted by Torbu
As for the loss of private property... if I'd be provided by all I need in order to perform I'd have no problem in giving up the rest of my stuff... Won't you give up your Mercedes if you'd be sure that the future of your children would be safe and they will live happy?!

First of all, I don't own a mercedes... second of all, giving away individual rights "for the collective" is not going to feed my children and make them safe, and you are an idiot if you believe that...

Originally posted by Torbu
Can't you really see that what capitalism is really about is exploiting the selfishness of the people?

Really?... is that why CAPITALIST NATIONS, and PEOPLE LIVING IN CAPITALIST NATIONS have been giving aid to some of the poorest people in the world?...

You can't only stop being selfish if you have enough to provide for your family... Are you going to tell me that if you didn't have enough to feed your family you would give what small quantity fo food you have for others?... i am SURE you will feed your children and other relatives FIRST and then help others... CAPITALISM allows you to do that, socialism/communism DOESN'T...

Originally posted by Torbu
And about Linus... you missed the point: the money you have is not related with what you give to the society! Which is the core of the Marxim, really. Which is what all this all crisis is about.

Ah, so Marxism is about having a net worth of $150 million while claiming EVERYONE ELSE who is not rich should give up everything they have... Gotcha...

Originally posted by Torbu
But a system where people would really help each other and create synergy and work for the good of the society, which again I think is the core idea of communism, if we would work together, that might be also achievable!

Excuse me?... and in capitalism the good of society is not also done?...

BTW, I have SEEN AND EXPERIENCED the idea of Marxist of what it means to "work together"... IT IS BY THE USE OF FORCE...

You are not going to change my mind, as I have told you I LIVED and EXPERIENCED what YOU HAVE NOT.

You are trying to make socialism/communism be something they are not, and in turn you are doing a DISERVICE more so for people who neither have the inclination nor the need to actually inform themselves, just like you, and instead you make up LIES about socialism/communism...

Originally posted by Torbu
It's not fair that if you are unlucky the society doesn't give you any chance: no education, no health, no job, no nothing.

Wrong again... Only under capitalist society pople have the ability, EVEN POOR PEOPLE, to succeed... In socialist/communist nations THE REGULAR PEOPLE DON'T HAVE A CHANCE TO SUCCEED...

Originally posted by Torbu
I don't seem to figure out that communism equates to dictatorship not you seem to understand that being born in poverty equates to no future for you nor your children, despite of your potential. You may think that after all that is bad luck for you... but I tell you that is bad luck for the whole society! Just imagine the next Fleming being born in a poor family and not getting access to a proper education!

You sir/madam AGAIN show to have no idea of what you talk about...

I was born under socailism/communism and I was as poor as poor could get... My family, as the mayority of Cubans, were so poor, and thanks to the rationing of socialism/communism, we had to choose between having a small bar of soap, or a really bad toothpaste for a month, and which btw YOU HAVE TO PAY...

BTW, that bar of soap is for the entire family, not just for a person. My mother always chose the bar os soap because then we could brush our teeth with our index finger and the soap, and also use the soap to take small showers...

At the age of 7 years old all children are deemed as "not needing milk anymore" since there were "scientific claims by the socialist/communists" that after the age of 7 you don't need any more milk...

We couldn't afford to buy any paint to paint the house or fix the cracks in the house, since most of the money is gone for whatever food you can buy, which was never enough.

For food, every family was sold one small steak FOR A MONTH for the entire family, as well as one chicken. most parents gave even some or most of their food to their children, if you wondered why there are no regular fat Cuban people in Cuba, now you know why...

Originally posted by TheJourney
Anyone who suggests that communism can't work based on past 'attempts' is either entirely misinformed on the nature of communism or being intentionally obtuse and misleading. It has never been tried. When the Utopian society comes, it will be communist. That much is clear.

edit on 13-6-2012 by TheJourney because: (no reason given)

The Communist Manifesto was published in 1848. That was 164 years ago.

When do you think they'll get around to giving it a go, if they haven't already tried it?

As been pointed out by people who actually have lived in Communist countries, Communism seems to have a romantic overtone to certain young people in the Western world. It seems that Capitalism is the greater evil and Communism is the greater good, but this is far from the case.

There has never been a successful Communist country, even China has only boomed economically because of it adopting a capitalist (Western) economic model, but the biggest threat to China is its Communist ruling that totally oppresses the masses, hence constant pockets of civil unrest throughout China. Communism is just as repressive, if not more so, than fascism. It believes in submission to the state and has no interest in the individual. It believes in all being equal at the bottom but forgets to mention that all at the top are just as equal, thus creating a two tier class system, the rich and the poor with no inbetween, the same inbetween that has created relative wealth for many working people throughout the western world under a capitalist economic model, that otherwise had they lived in a Communist country would've simply been poor.

Yes the people at the top get very rich under Capitalism, but if you think that Communism does not have an elite then you are either ill educated or deluded. I think before any western youngster living in a Capitalist/democratic country joins a Communist party, they should first live in a Communist country, otherwise you haven't got a clue what Communism truly means.

I'm not happy with working and working but having less and less, but I would still rather work and live in a capitalist country than ever exist and work in a Communist country.

In Spain we only lived for about a month or two with our family, because in Spain, and many other countries in Europe people take a bath/shower only once a week, and my cousin, who apart from this was a good person, wanted us to take baths in the same water as her husband, her, and my two cousings bathed themselves...

BTW, we were legal in Spain, but because we were immigrants my parents couldn't get good jobs, and this was under the socialist party in the 80s... Anyway, we lived in an attic with roof made of opaque plastic. My mother would put our washed clothes, which she did by hand, in a clothesline and by morning the clothes were solid ice.

Anyway, 9 years later, we were still poor, we were able to move to the United States, where some of our other family lives to this day. We lived in small apartments, in Hialeah/Miami Florida, but slowly but surely we were able to get into better appartments until my parents were able to buy the condo where they live.

Because of my grades I was given two years of free college, which I lost later because when we moved to the states the idiot working for the state put my middle name as my first and my first name as my middle name, when I solved that problem and went back to college they told me I lost the scholarship...

Anyway, my parents got into a bad economic situation and I decided to get a full time job to help them right out of school. Things got better, I joined the U.S. military as a U.S. Navy Aircrewman/AW. I went to college again, and then I went to learn a tradeskill at ITT Tech.

I know what it means to be poor, and I know what it means to succeed just to lose again to bad luck, and I will tell you this. I will rather live in the United States as it was 20 years ago, before PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRATS, Liberals, Corpocrats, and RINOs completely sold this nation than living under ANY socialist/communist nation.

reply to post by nenothtu


I'm sorry I presented my ideas so that it seems I'm shifting and contradicting myself. When I'm talking about individuals not able to make it, I'm talking in terms of probabilities and I'm talking about as the mean individual as part of the whole. I'm thinking about The Coming Collapse of the Middle Class. Sure there is some few people that manage to make it, but the huge majority does not. Their failure should be regarded, in my opinion as a failure of the society to exploit their potential.

I don't doubt you did not steal in order to make your money, neither do I nor do I exploit anyone, despite of the fact that I own a small company. BUT, here in Spain, according to an article I red some months ago, 60% of the working population makes less than 1000 euro a month, 85% makes less than 2000 euro a month. There is an unemployment rate of 25%. A rent would be about 800 euro a month... the food is more expensive than in US or Germany... I also know from my own experience that finding highly qualified workers is still nearly impossible despite of those numbers... Which tells me that the education level is terrible.

But despite of being personally on a top 10% group of the population, despite of having already paid for my house, and despite of the fact that I love what I do, I do not create any value for the society as a whole. I build software for small companies, but none of my clients does really produce anything, all of them speculate. In 15 years I only worked for one company that actually produced something. So I'm not really giving anything to the society... and my dream was to do research. And research doesn't put food on the table. Again it won't be fair to say I'm frustrated, I'm not, but at the same time I realise that without the luck of being given a place where to live and the money to pay for my education I won't be where I am... If my family wouldn't afford the university and the endless years there after to keep learning and experimenting by myself I won't be where I am. And that's the case of at least 80% of the population! It's true I work about 90 hours a week, but still I don't think I'm better than the 80% or the 90% of the population! If anything I'm luckier than them.

When I'm talking about freedom I'm talking about freedom for that huge part of the population that can't afford even to pay the rent or the mortgage despite the fact that they are trying very hard to do so. Most of the population here is just trying to achieve what on the Romania of the '80 was given to you by the state! Sure it was far from perfect... But the system was built so that you could pursue your passions and aspirations. When you where on school you had free access to whatever area of knowledge you wanted, you could study computer science so you'd get free access to computers, or learn music you'd got free access to music instruments and instructors, and the list goes on and on... There where even free classes where you'd learn aeromodelism and would give you all the tools and materials you'd need to build yourself a model plane, for free. The personal achievement was valued and rewarded with prizes. No money involved but the honour and pride of getting one of those was worth the work! Then you would go to university and chose what you'd like to learn and after finishing you wouldn't be flipping burgers with your physics diploma on you... you'd have a job for the rest of your life. When you'd be old, the state would pay you a pension and if you'd get sick you'd have free healthcare. You won't have to care for the house as the government would give you a flat or would give you a loan that you'd be able to pay in couple of years. My father used to be back home at 5PM... Here it doesn't go like that as you can't afford living near where you work you'll spend at least one hour commuting. For me this is freedom.

Then the country economy? Despite of all stuff they say that Romania was poor, how does it come that in 89 it was the only country in the world that had paid all it's external debt? Do you think that it was really possible that the economy didn't work and it could achieve that?

No, it was not perfect, it was far from perfect, but it was a step on the right direction.

Originally posted by Torbu


I'm sorry I presented my ideas so that it seems I'm shifting and contradicting myself. When I'm talking about individuals not able to make it, I'm talking in terms of probabilities and I'm talking about as the mean individual as part of the whole. I'm thinking about The Coming Collapse of the Middle Class. Sure there is some few people that manage to make it, but the huge majority does not. Their failure should be regarded, in my opinion as a failure of the society to exploit their potential.
...

Do you even know why the economic crisis exists?... so that the world socialist/fascist elites can establish a World Socialist/Fascist dictatorship under Corporate mandates...

“The governments of Europe, the United States, and Japan are unlikely to negotiate a social-democratic pattern of globalization – unless their hands are forced by a popular movement or a catastrophe, such as another Great Depression or ecological disaster“

These governments would not accept a "social-democratic pattern of globalization" unless their hands are FORCED by a popular movement (Occupy and Anthropogenic Global Warming movements), another Great Depression (the current GLOBAL economic crisis), or an ecological disaster (Global Warming been blamed on humans)

Democratising Global Governance:

The Challenges of the World Social Forum

by

Francesca Beausang


ABSTRACT

This paper sums up the debate that took place during the two round tables organized by UNESCO within the first World Social Forum in Porto Alegre (25/30 January 2001). It starts with a discussion of national processes, by examining democracy and then governance at the national level. It first states a case for a "joint" governance based on a combination of stakeholder theory, which is derived from corporate governance, and of UNESCO's priorities in the field of governance. As an example, the paper investigates how governance can deviate from democracy in the East Asian model. Subsequently, the global dimension of the debate on democracy and governance is examined, first by identification of the characteristics and agents of democracy in the global setting, and then by allusion to the difficulties of transposing governance to the global level.

www.unesco.org...

The above paper is from 1991 from the UN. It, and the meetings these globalists have been having call for a GLOBAL SOCIALIST/FASCIST GOVERNMENT derived from CORPORATE GOVERNANCE...

Go ahead and keep cheering for socialism/communism...



The current economic crisis, as well as others in the past were done intentionally to slowly take away more power from soverign countries.

3. Grunnlaget for vår virksomhet er sosialismens klassikere; Marx, Engels og Lenin. Deres analyser av historien, økonomien og klassekampen kaller vi den vitenskapelige sosialismen. Gjennom historien er dette teoretiske grunnlaget tilført et vell av erfaringer og nye elementer fra frihetskjempere over hele verden.

Vi søker å videreutvikle dette idégrunnlaget ved å tilegne oss progressive tanker og synspunkter fra andre tankeretninger. Dessuten bygger vi på samfunns- og naturvitenskapens framsteg, særlig innen økologi, internasjonal konfliktløsning og menneskeretter. NKP støtter FNs menneskerettserklæring og understreker betydningen av de sosiale og økonomiske rettighetene.

I dag prøver vi særlig å fjerne stivnete synspunkter og dogmer som ikke har holdt historiens prøve, uten samtidig å gjøre teorien tannløs og ufarlig.

Det sosialistiske verdenssystemet brøt sammen rundt 1990. Dette midlertidige historiske nederlaget for sosialismen hadde både indre og ytre årsaker. Likevel lever sosialismen som idé og mål videre. Kommunistene er innstilt på åpent å erkjenne feilgrep som skjedde i sosialismens og kommunismens navn i realsosialismens periode.

De viktigste konklusjonene i denne selvkritiske erkjennelses- prosessen er:
Realsosialismens fall skyldes ikke teorien og de sosialistiske prinsippene, men avvik fra disse.
Hovedsvakhetene var knyttet til mangel på demokrati, humanisme og økologi. I tillegg kommer ineffektivitet og manglende evne til nytenkning og omstilling i samfunnslivet.
Marxismen-leninismen må videreutvikles, økologisk, demokratisk og humanistisk.
NKP kjemper for en grunnleggende samfunnsomveltning. Den innebærer at folkeflertallet gjennomfører en rettferdig fordeling av samfunnsgodene. Menneskene - ikke pengene - må styre utviklingen.

www.nkp.no...

OK. I am tired, but shall try to translate this the best that I can...

Article 3 of Norges Kommunistiske Parti Manifest:
3. The foundation for our operations are socialist classics, Marx, Engels and Lenin. Their analysis of the history, economy and class struggle, we call The research socialism. Throughout history, this is the theoretical foundation provided a wealth of experience and new elements of freedom fighters around the world. We seek to develop this general approach by assimilating progressive thoughts and opinions from other lines of thought. In addition, we build on the social and natural scientific advances, especially in ecology, international conflict resolution and human rights. CPN supports the UN Human Rights Declaration and stresses the importance of the social and economic rights. Today we are trying in particular to remove the rigid views and doctrines that have been history's test without making the theory toothless and harmless. The worldwide socialist system collapsed around 1990. This temporary historical defeat of socialism had both internal and external causes. Nonetheless, socialism as an idea and goals further. The Communists are prepared to openly acknowledge the mistakes that happened in socialism and communism in the name of real socialism period. The main conclusions of this self-critical cognition process are: Real Socialism decline is not due to the theory and socialist principles, but deviations from these. The main weaknesses were related to the lack of democracy, humanism and ecology. In addition, inefficiency and inability to innovate and change in society. Marxism-Leninism must be further developed, ecological, democratic and humanistic. NKP are fighting for a basic social upheaval. It means that the popular majority is conducting a fair distribution of social benefits. The people - not money - to steer development.

OK. Even formal communists acknowledge the fact that it has failed in the past, highly due to lack of "democracy, humanism and ecology."

reply to post by nenothtu


Once again my fault, for not expressing myself clearly enough, I should have written "the democratic and free societies" or say something like "western capitalism".

I really don't think and I did not want to mean that communism is opposite to democracy which really is a nonsense.

Communism and capitalism are opposed. Democracy or dictatorship are also opposed but compatible with both capitalism or communism.

Originally posted by Torbu

I don't doubt you did not steal in order to make your money, neither do I nor do I exploit anyone, despite of the fact that I own a small company. BUT, here in Spain, according to an article I red some months ago, 60% of the working population makes less than 1000 euro a month, 85% makes less than 2000 euro a month. There is an unemployment rate of 25%. A rent would be about 800 euro a month... the food is more expensive than in US or Germany... I also know from my own experience that finding highly qualified workers is still nearly impossible despite of those numbers... Which tells me that the education level is terrible.
...

And that happened in great part because of the SOCIALIST PARTY you voted for in Spain. I am still in contact with my family in Spain and talk to them regularly...

In fact, an old girlfriend who was born in Spain decided to move to the U.S. about 5 years ago. Her sister who is still living in Spain was thinking about the same thing, but since she got a new boyfriend it appears she changed her mind. Anyway, are you going to tell us that most of the problems you are having right now in Spain have not been caused by YOU CHOOSING THE SOCIALIST PARTY BEING IN POWER?... Because for what my family tells me, it is due to that decision, which is why the socialists were voted out again...

Originally posted by Torbu
reply to post by nenothtu

 

Once again my fault, for not expressing myself clearly enough, I should have written "the democratic and free societies" or say something like "western capitalism".

I really don't think and I did not want to mean that communism is opposite to democracy which really is a nonsense.

Communism and capitalism are opposed. Democracy or dictatorship are also opposed but compatible with both capitalism or communism.

The Republic of the United States was NEVER a democracy...

Democracy is the road to socialism...

Democracy is the road to socialism. KARL MARX.

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by brukernavn

In the West, people have learnt to hate communism and instantly abandon anybody with communist leanings.

I believe that you intended to write in the USA and in most satellite countries of the USSR. In France, most latin nations (Italy, Spain, Portugal) and most South America large parts of Africa, communism is well and gaining strength by the capitalistic induced collapse we are suffering.

One thing that south and central Europeans do not understand is the skewed view North Americans have of communism and even socialism (to most Americans they are the same). Europeans have very low consideration for the level of general culture of Americans have but even so this psychosis Americans have with central governments is so extreme that it takes time to understand from outside how fractured American society really is.

One needs not look much further on how Americans do not "get" Canada, and treat your southerner neighbors to see how dysfunctional a "nation" you are...

Originally posted by brukernavn

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
Socialism is considered a bridge to communism. Marx said it, Lenin said it, and this guy says it

vladimiruhri.hubpages.com...

Marx also said that democracy is the road to socialism. Checkmate.

There are many posts on the various threads explaining that America is a Constitutional Republic. The word democratic is abused mightily, and even Hitler was voted in by democratic choice. Any dictator can be voted in by democratic vote. Democracy can be tempered by a Representative Republic or it can be mob rule in a socialist mode.
Yes, I would guess that Marx is right, democracy is used by socialists, particularly direct democracy.

Originally posted by SecretFace
As been pointed out by people who actually have lived in Communist countries, Communism seems to have a romantic overtone to certain young people in the Western world. It seems that Capitalism is the greater evil and Communism is the greater good, but this is far from the case.

It's true that I have a romantic view of Communism but that's because I was born in a socialist country that had aspirations for becoming a communist country at some point. It's also true that it failed.

Originally posted by SecretFace
There has never been a successful Communist country...

I disagree. Romania having paid all it's external debt I think refutes your argument at least partially.

Originally posted by SecretFace
Communism is just as repressive, if not more so, than fascism.

Depends on the implementation I think. But you can't say that a government being repressive makes there ideology repressive.

Originally posted by SecretFace
It believes in submission to the state and has no interest in the individual.

The submission part I think that it has to do with the fact that if you want to aim for a socialist / communist regime you can't do it without the whole population. It'd be likely to say that capitalism is submissive because it forces you to pay taxes. Nevertheless, in Romania at least, the "submission" to the state existed and the system was not tolerant with different organizational ideas.

BUT the "no interest in the individual" is completely false. Self development was promoted and encouraged. It was done by the use of personal proud. Money was not use as a motivator as it is in capitalism.

Yes the people at the top get very rich under Capitalism, but if you think that Communism does not have an elite then you are either ill educated or deluded.

It was an elite but it was far smaller than the capitalist elite. The differences between the socialism elite, in Romania at least, and the normal people, which was the rest of the population was insignificant in comparison with the current differences between the elite and the poorest or the elite and the middle class.

they should first live in a Communist country

I don't think there is or there was such a thing. Again, Romania, for example was never communist, it was just a socialist country that wished to one day become communist.

People really like to use labels in very general ways, that don't demonstrate having any actual understanding of what the terms they are using mean...lol.

'Communism is almost as repressive as Fascism'...lol

We're a label-obsessed culture. "He's a SOCIALIST!" "He's a COMMUNIST!" "He's a TERRORIST!" "I'm a CONSERVATIVE" "I'm LIBERAL" on and on...I see very little understanding of these things, just repeating terms they've heard in a very vague and undefined way.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


You might want to read my previous post, which directly addresses what you are saying in reference to democracy and dictators. It is true that the US is a republic. It is a republic which has democratically elected officials, hence it is also a democracy. It's legislative form of government is labeled a republic, which does not negate the fact that it is a democracy.

Hei fra England!

I only read the first page so far.

My first instinct would be to ask if there was a trigger for you changing your ideals - Utoya?

Originally posted by CB328

Why only join when you can go and live in a communist country?

I have a better idea- all the anti-government, anti-tax, anti-regulation, anti-worker, anti-environment right-wing extremists should go live somewhere like Afghanistan, or Africa, or China, where they can pollute all they want, pay people 2$ a day, and never have to worry about any regulations or taxes.

It's funny how all the anti society people don't want to give up any of the privileges or benefits of a well-run country, but they don't want to have to pay for it or follow the rules everyone else has to.

Well, aside from the obvious name-calaling method, one can assume you mean anyone of Libertarian or conservative freedom loving persuasion.
Now, being that America has a Constitution and a Bill of Rights and a Representative Republican form of govt founded by those of the Libertarian freedom loving persuasion, why in the world should we of that persuasion be the ones to leave the country just to suit your desires?
I say, let those who want communism go to a communist country of dictator persuasion since that is what they want, those countries already exist or are in full blown revolutionary mode.
Cuba, China, N Korea, Viet Nam and Laos are presently self declared communist states. I would suggest that anyone who wants that so desperately is free to relocate to any of those place.
Then there are the all out socialist countries: France, Sweden, Canada, India, and Venezuela.
I'm sure there's room for one more even in India.

reply to post by spacedonk


God kveld, og hyggelig å møte deg.

Well, I have thought about your question, and the biggest life experience that made me start thinking more about life and the world would have to be when my wife died looking for a gift for me. I essentially had to start piecing my world back together and had my eyes opened to many things that I was ignorant of.

Ha det bra!