"Shills", Ad-Hominem attacks, Ego and posting on ATS.

now, if you had said A.D.D. Hominid
I could say I resemble that remark

just came back from a rabble rouser thread where peeps were wondering where the mods were
Im glad the posts weren't modded...they were more telling that way

I didn't now I was causing a holocaust, that i was an Idiot, a Muslim, and a marxist, and that I was the only one who had to post references.


i do admire groucho though

Originally posted by TinfoilTP
I've been called a shill in a whole lot of threads I participated in, it is the gotcha moment where their argument falls to pieces and becomes as dust in the wind.

oh yes i agree here 100%, you know you have got your point across when they start calling you shill....disinfo....CIA...FBI and (insert relevant gov agency letters here), for me i let out a big when i get called it because at the end of the day, to me, it means they have nothing else to say to back up their argument.

and seriously.....are we doing another of these threads.....people will never learn on this site it seems. its no wonder a lot of us are getting highly frustrated and venting in skype or barly coming to the boards now because no offense but people seem to be getting more sheeple like everyday *shakes head and strolls away*

Originally posted by LiveForever8
The above poster makes a good point: what is ACTUALLY done when something is reported?
I have lost count of the amount of times I have reported something only for absolutely nothing to be done about it. Who decides if a post/thread is worthy of being deleted?
I think if more decisive action was taken by the MODS it wouldn't be half as bad as it is, mainly because people like myself, who have given up on reporting now, would be more likely to do it in the future if I knew I wasn't wasting my time.
A thread like this every 3 months isn't going to change a thing.

Well said. I saw an interesting thread where 1 person was making personal-attacks on everyone in the thread rather than attacking the ideas/POVs of them. Nothing got done - other than I stopped participating in that thread (the bad guy won by eating the thread with noise against about 5 of us).

The OP pointing to Ad-Hominem is for me the key-value. If an "attack" is on the concepts and ideas then great - but if its designed to cast another ATS member as a shill - well another case where that gets more difficult does come to mind.

There was a thread about bees with AFB disease - with discussion of organic/big-farm techniques. The big-farmer contributors there obviously had a financial stake in AFB hive locating and burning - as compared to the organic and more common minded of us there who saw the independent research by an organic bee farmer to be of value.

My point is that not all shills are shills to be mean - they might have "skin in the game" so to speak - and thus make honestly "good" contributions. So even shill'ing doesn't discern good/bad - as much as 'personal' does. And in that thread I actually did add my first "rival". It wasn't personal but rather their approach to farming has historically always led to major farming failures on national levels (a problem that extended beyond the topic and extends to his world-view) - so I oppose his POV directly while respecting his membership here (never reported any of that guys posts either).

Originally posted by Danbones
...
just came back from a rabble rouser thread where peeps were wondering where the mods were
Im glad the posts weren't modded...they were more telling that way

I didn't now I was causing a holocaust, that i was an Idiot, a Muslim, and a marxist, and that I was the only one who had to post references.

i do admire groucho though

edit on 6-6-2012 by Danbones because: (no reason given)

I concur that gone-forever posts aren't a good result either. I'd rather the offending posts got 'demoted' somehow.
Something like the banner-images still there while the text were pushed down like multi-quote text appears really small.

Something Like this:

Originally posted by moded-guy

Original offensive/Demoted text - essentially to remove it from the conversation while putting everyone on warning about its status

To discuss mod of this action U2U moderator-username

reply to post by ronishia


well the more people that say they get called something is because they are winning an argument...But could it possibly be because they are being a complete and utter ignoramus....Just a thought here....I mean sometimes people are just holes.....there is a donkey in front of that hole.

reply to post by neformore


I agree with you 100%.... so why hasn't anything changed?

I have seen numerous examples of the issue over the last several days, yet nary a mod in sight.

I have reported these posts, no action was taken. There was nothing vague or debatable about what I have run across.

I love this site, I love the mods, overall everything here works pretty well.

However when you start a thread like this...... and then the moderators don't back it up, people will start losing respect for the moderators which isn't good for anyone. These personal attacks are so common in threads that people get defensive about innocuous statements because they are used to being attacked.

So.....if you are going to do something about the problem... THEN DO IT.

Originally posted by neformore
reply to post by stanguilles7

 

Is it arbitary, or is it that it just doesn't suit you?

Every complaint is looked at by the board staff. If something is complained about and not actioned it is because the staff haven't seen a serious enough T&C breach to warrant its removal - usually when it is a complaint about an opposing view point that someone has taken offence to.

A difference of opinion is not grounds for post removal. ATS is a discussion board.

Yes, I do understand all of that. But I've also read the T&C and know that there is enough gray area that leaves space for interpretation, and that moderators are still just people, with their own prejudices, etc.

For example, I've flagged the same post at different times, having it ignored one day and then enforced when i flagged it again 48 hours later. That tells me that there are some (albeit expected) inconsistencies in the moderation. One moderator didnt find any fault with said post one day, but another moderator, a day or two later did.

What other conclusion can be drawn?

So now, generally, i just dont flag posts.

reply to post by reitze


yeah, or a link to a post bin so they aren't frontally visible maybe....?

Originally posted by Danbones
reply to post by reitze

 

yeah, or a link to a post bin so they aren't frontally visible maybe....?

From what I recall about years gone by here on ATS, the whole "Community Effort" to remove undesirable posts was tried and failed.

Failed because by way of natural progression and human nature, they would get all their friends to either create false accounts, or band together (whether their friends agreed with the premise that such posts were undesirable) to rally against a post. Most especially for those that were not any type of violation. That's why it won't work as a community.

Originally posted by adigregorio
Does this mean you guys are going to crack down on all the "I hate American" threads?

Since those threads are all based on ad-hominems, and ego posts. I can link the plethora of hate filled threads, if needed. (I mean I report them, but nothing ever happens.)

What else is a thread thats only purpose is to hate on an entire country? Bigotry, that's what!

Anyway, maybe ATS should eliminate that hate before worrying about this small stuff?

After you nix the anti-American sentiment, you can hit the anti-Californian one. Unless you guys wish to continue to promote the hate?

This site doesn't promote hate, that's what the OP is about. What this site DOES promote is intense discussion and analyze of the activities of business both public and private of nation states, governments, corporations and anything else conspiracy related that has relevance to the world we inhabit.

The agenda 21 antics of California speak for themselves, so naturally people are going to point that out. Need I remind you of the Occupy Oakland debacle? I also firmly believe that LA embodies everything that is wrong about America. Fortunately you guys have great town like San Francisco and San Diego ^_^

My suggestion is to not view the threads that you know are just going to make your mad or something. Instead of clicking and reporting start your own thread or join in on someone else's thread where the discussion seems lively and tolerant.

Thanks to the OP and other moderators and administrators here. Tempers can certainly flare here and it is important to have impartial moderators making sure that things don't get out of hand and that their members aren't at any time feeling threatened or concerned for their safety.

Originally posted by seenavv
man all i gota say is some of these people made an average FIVE posts a day for THREE YEARS defending 1 viewpoint on 1 incident in a forum where the overwhelming majority were inclined to disagree with them because of the kind of people attracted to this website

So what?

They have every right to disagree but theres is a difference about being passionate about a view and consistently posting in a forum where everyone is going to disagree with you (FOR YEARS).

No, there isn't. They post and they don't give up precisely because they're passionate. I do the same thing. You're just mad because they haven't given up. In your mind, they MUST be shills automatically because any "real" person would have gone away by now and you wouldn't have to listen to them anymore. It's just an expression of your personal frustration of having to continue to see points of view that you disagree with from people you're tired of seeing.

It suggests a special interest that does not intend to be truthful, but rather manipulative

No, it doesn't. It suggests someone is passionate about a given subject. For me the passion is astronomy and I post almost exclusively on astronomy related threads as I have done for years, debunking nonsense whenever I see it, even when the same nonsense comes up again and again. That does not mean I'm dishonest or manipulative, that means I'm passionate.

As someone else mentioned to me, no reasonable person holds strict mainstream views and goes to a conspiracy forum so consistently

That's your opinion and an a priori assumption made so that you can give yourself an excuse to ignore anyone who consistently posts from a point of view you disagree with.

It'd be like an atheist going to religious forums and arguing with them for years, often on a daily basis

So what? If the forum allows opposing points of view to be heard I don't see why that couldn't happen.

And I'd like to clarify in no way did I intend, or suggest the instigation of a witch hunt, but rather a legitimate investigation of malevolent activity within the community in the pursuit of "denying ignorance"

I didn't see the thread you're talking about because I post about astronomy, not 9/11, but from what I've heard it sounds precisely like a witch hunt for anyone who dares to consistently make posts you disagree with because it goes against the "conspiracy side." If they make those sorts of posts "too consistently" for "too long a time" then they're automatically "shills."

EDIT: I think the best way to settle this is for the staff to investigate my findings for themselves. It would only be for the benefit of ATS & it's users.
If any mod is interested please feel free to contact me

edit on 6-6-2012 by seenavv because: (no reason given)

Well it looks to me like you haven't given up on the idea of a witch hunt. I've seen the same sort of thing attempted with regards to "astronomy conspiracies" and it never ends well.

There was a thread that was posted last night named " What Happened to this Forum?" Why was it removed.... The only mod action I have seen as of late is the removal of a thread that simply questions why?

This thread seemed to be a positive step but is even ignored by the mod who started it...... I have not seen any changes, in fact things have gotten worse. I follow the rules, we need moderator help for those who don't. The moderators are only letting down the very people who are not causing the problems.