"Shills", Ad-Hominem attacks, Ego and posting on ATS.

Over the past few weeks the board staff have picked up on another round of attempts, by some posters, to try and dictate their own personal point of view by using ad-hominem attacks on other members.

ad hominem Latin [æd ˈhɒmɪˌnɛm]
adj & adv
1. directed against a person rather than against his arguments
2. based on or appealing to emotion rather than reason

Free online dictionary

Lets get something straight here,

ATS is about discussion, and the exchange of ideas.

It most certainly is NOT about witch hunts, and peoples attempts to try and single out posters because they don't like their view, or what they have to say.

Opposing view points do not make someone a "shill"

If you simply can't stand someone having an alternate viewpoint to yours, start a blog and dictate from there, instead of coming to a discussion forum and expecting to dictate a sole viewpoint here.

ATS Terms and Conditions

16) Behavior: You will not behave in an abusive, libelous, defamatory, hateful, intolerant, bigoted and/or racist manner, and will not harass, threaten, nor attack anyone.

Read the relevant parts in bold.

Your opinion of someone is NOT fact. It is opinion, and if it bleeds into topics and starts to cause problems/off topic discussion and or worse, it will be removed.

Its a big world. Differing people see different things in different ways. It beggars belief that anyone posting on ATS is incapable of understanding that, and yet people seem to persist in this schoolyard like endeavour.

Ultimately, such labelling is all about ego. People cannot stand to have their own preconceptions challenged.

Please check your ego at the door when posting on ATS.

I actually rather feel better about knowing that there are shills posting a constant barage of "personal" disinformation based on the cover story of killers.

I don't ever post on 9-11 threads because I cannot trust either side; however, I am still a firm believer that all those people were sacrificed so the machine can feed itself; my opinion of course.

The thread identifiying the "shills" on the 9-11 forum did not really do anything but identify a behavior for what it was, if a name was revealed I am certain that person can stand on their own merits and habitual attitudes, but I did not personally see any names.

About a year or so too late.... IMO.

But better late than never.

Let me know if you need any members that partake in this activity..... (or check my threads related to Obama or politics).

Does this mean you guys are going to crack down on all the "I hate American" threads?

Since those threads are all based on ad-hominems, and ego posts. I can link the plethora of hate filled threads, if needed. (I mean I report them, but nothing ever happens.)

What else is a thread thats only purpose is to hate on an entire country? Bigotry, that's what!

Anyway, maybe ATS should eliminate that hate before worrying about this small stuff?

After you nix the anti-American sentiment, you can hit the anti-Californian one. Unless you guys wish to continue to promote the hate?

reply to post by adigregorio


ATS is an international site. People from all over the world come here to express their opinions.

As long as those opinions don't break the T&C, why do you wish to censor them?

The above poster makes a good point: what is ACTUALLY done when something is reported?

I have lost count of the amount of times I have reported something only for absolutely nothing to be done about it. Who decides if a post/thread is worthy of being deleted?

I think if more decisive action was taken by the MODS it wouldn't be half as bad as it is, mainly because people like myself, who have given up on reporting now, would be more likely to do it in the future if I knew I wasn't wasting my time.

A thread like this every 3 months isn't going to change a thing.

reply to post by LiveForever8


Be the change you'd like to see. If you are not reporting T&C violations then how are we, a staff of just 70 supposed to comb over the thousands and thousands of posts that come up each day?

Now let's get something straight, a difference of opinion, is NOT a T&C violation. If you alerting things simply on that basis, then of course no posts are being removed as there is no violation.

You have the right to be disagreed with on ATS. It is your job to debate your point until your opponent either bows out and tells you that you are right, or that you are proven wrong.

We can't be responsible for the membership's apathy when it comes to alerting violations. We are NEVER going to catch all them. Never.

We rely on the membership to alert those posts so that we can do our jobs.

~Tenth

Originally posted by adigregorio
Does this mean you guys are going to crack down on all the "I hate American" threads?

Since those threads are all based on ad-hominems, and ego posts. I can link the plethora of hate filled threads, if needed. (I mean I report them, but nothing ever happens.)

What else is a thread thats only purpose is to hate on an entire country? Bigotry, that's what!

Anyway, maybe ATS should eliminate that hate before worrying about this small stuff?

After you nix the anti-American sentiment, you can hit the anti-Californian one. Unless you guys wish to continue to promote the hate?

labeling threads ( that even might contain a reference or two...oh noes! ) "hate" is an adhominem attack

reply to post by tothetenthpower


I understand that.

But when I'm reading a brilliant thread that someone has obviously taken hours to compile and some moron is completely ruining it with off-topic rants and personal attacks, and still after SEVERAL reports by myself, nothing is done, what am I to think?

There were plenty of Mods online at the time, I checked.

This isn't silly differences of opinion, quite frankly I like to see the debates that skate on thin ice, the retorts that veer close to the T&C's, it all makes for brilliant reading.

What I object to is the morons who ruin a brilliant thread because they haven't got anything better to do.

Get more Mods if that's what is needed. There are plenty of great people on here who could do the job well.

reply to post by neformore


They do break the T&C, note I didn't say all threads expressing negative opinions.

I said HATE threads, do I really need to link them. Methinks not...

I know I will link them eventually. I mean you know it is bad when I sit in the chat and say "Another hate on America thread" And ALL THE PARTICIPANTS in chat know who started the thread, without even looking.

Seriously yo, saying your working on the ad-hominems while leaving out the whole "Hate on America/California" crowd is silly. When a thread pops up (daily) on how we ignorant Americans (hate bigotry speach) are all stupid (more bigotry)

Really, just switch out American for Chinaman (Oops!) Or Chinese. I was going to re-post a few threads, but they were so racist I was ashamed.

Very good and well said. I saw one of these threads just yesterday, A witch hunt for "shills"

It is simply silly. People have all kinds of view points. The members of ATS come from all different backgrounds and belief systems and it makes no sense to expect anyone here or anywhere else to believe exactly as you do ( I mean you in the general sense).

I've been around this site for a little while and I have been called all kinds of things for simply having a different opinion. So this is nothing new, but I wish people would understand. Calling a person a shill for disagreeing with you, does not make them look bad. It merely highlights your own inability to understand the simple concept of differing opinions and your own inability to effectively defend your own stance on a subject.

That is all it does, really.

Anyway, to put it simply, I agree. We are all allowed our opinions. It is the singling out, calling individual members out and accusing them of being shills. Trying to silence a person for having a different opinion...Things like that. That is the problem. I've seen a number of those types of threads/posts popping up and I am glad to see ATS putting a stop to such things.

Peace and love.

pointing out flaws on a discussion board is hate?
the bit about no wmds comes to mind
what was DONE to Iraq and afghanistan...that's hate

what is described here as hate sounds like someone lost a debate and is wining

reply to post by adigregorio


Which part of this thread don't you understand?

You are singling out specific people, in specific threads because you don't like what they have to say.

Peoples views of a particular country are not grounds for removing their posts, unless they break the T&C. Sorry to say it, but certain people are less than enamoured with the actions of various countries around the globe. That is simply the world we live in.

Attacking other members, continually labelling them as "shills" and trying to silence an opposing viewpoint or one you happen to find difficult because of your own beliefs simply because YOU don't like it, by going after the poster is what we are talking about here.

reply to post by adigregorio


I said we don't do witch hunts. I meant it.

you forgot bt barnam
"a sucker born every minute"...he was talking about america
lets ban him too

I forget who said
"no one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the american public"

oh here it is
www.quotationspage.com...
h l menken..the quote miester
lets ban him too

might as well shoot mark twain while we are at it

Originally posted by adigregorio
reply to post by Danbones

 

Yeah, and because famous people were bigots that makes it so we can be to!

Check!

Why not step out from under the mods skirts, and address the issue without the sarcastic commentary. WHICH is EXACTLY what the OPost is asking us to not do.

no it isn't

Attacking other members, continually labelling them as "shills" and trying to silence an opposing viewpoint or one you happen to find difficult because of your own beliefs simply because YOU don't like it, by going after the poster is what we are talking about here

this is