Just because it is that time of year when we all begin to think Draft before playoffs.....a dynamic the NHS is trying to reverse..... here is an NHS
post from Oct 5 2012 regarding this topic and how it was recieved on a typical stats based site.......
Here goes.....
Scouting for what SYSTEM??What system were our scouts trying to find players to fit in to?This is the golden question,it has to be answered
FIRST,before we jump around. We dont even have a historical record of the SYSTEM the Olers as an organisation had committed to and were scouting
,drafting,and signing to support.Thats because it was in first Waynes head ,then in Maeks,then it was GONE---GONE---GONE. And we have never found a
SYSTEM anywhere near as superior as the one those TWO INDIVIDUALS CATALYSED.We have sucked more and more ,year after year,barring the Miracle run
where Mac-T actually lucked out and made it into the playoffs so he could make the old majic happen but we havent seen it again since.
The NewAge Hockey System is a superior system .
No writers or hockey people seem to be willing to even quantify the word SYSTEM,never mind describe one or discuss it,NHL teams also refuse to discuss
their SYSTEMS or maybe there is no such thing as a "SYSTEM"at all and its just a fairy tale.
You cannot accurately analyse a pro scouts sucess or failure based on how many NHL games a player does or does not play,because the scout has no say
in what system his found assets are put into and how they are utilised.
He only scouts for the things his team asks him to look for in players based on specific system needs,it is NOT simply physical skill level.But it IS
ALL DICTATED TO A SCOUT.So what is the SYSTEM CATALYST that dictates to Oilers scouts what kind of players they pursue???How can you scout players
without an existing system dynamic to fit them into---physical skills are all to close to do that.So anyone have an answer????What system or systems
were those scouts working on behalf of???Was it one system??Or over the years SEVERAL systems???Because this is critical,I want to barbeque the
management team and everyone else is looking at the job the scouts were doing,remember they are just the messengers,someone else is responsible for
accepting the rap on this MYSTERY SYSTEM debacle,and the majority stakeholder here IS NOT the scouts its the management team.Maybe a more well versed
hockey fan with managerial knowledge can pinpoint the guilty parties,just forget the scouts for a second and dig deeper.What SYSTEM were the scouts
asked to work for???What SYSTEM did we play last year??Or the year before??Who within the Oilers organisation is responsible for defining and
instituting our SYSTEM??Or someone please in a rational manner just deny the existance of such a thing as a system of play ,because this is borderline
retarded already,this denial of responsibility,and this willingness to hang every single person remotely related to the Oilers organisation outside of
management is simple cowardly??
We have lost many very qualified and suitable employees the last five to ten years over this MYSTERY SYSTEM issue,we have used everyone possible as an
excuse,but we still havent gotten to the heart of the issue "system incontinuity".I even created a NEW system of playing hockey based on the last
sucessful one we had here,the NewAge Hockey System and I have been ignored and suppressed and made fun of by many many idiot hockey fans and hockey
people who lack the knowledge to even discuss system types online,and it is no bleeping wonder,just look at this simple stupid issue,no one even has
the brains or guts or cajones to aknowledge that SYSTEMS OF PLAY are utilised by NHL teams??I have only met a handful of people online and that
includes hockey writers and bloggers that has had the guts to even discuss hockey systems,this is because they are so complicated and most people
INCLUDING ex-players pro or not cant even go there without having braincramps and bi-polar reactions when you corner them and force them to talk
technical.
Every sport i ever played had systems with names,nicknames,traditional names,freaking coded names,but every sport has systems of play,but I never did
play hockey---so maybe their are "secret systems". Hey this was a great article,I appreciate so many people are so able to ascertain responsibility
for the Oilers toilet bowl performance so easily and so accurately,those scouts sure sucked,eh??By the way what do you think of our system Krueger is
planning on useing????You do know what it is dont you??How about ANY system in the last 20 yrs??Because to critique the scouts of any era you better
understand the system they were shopping for----or find out why the dinner menu kept changing every time they got home from the store???
Kevin Prendergast was an important and productive employee and the team will be weaker without his services,its tough to explain why he was so good at
his job without discussing the SYSTEM he was working to support----and as we can see here according to many knowledgable fans and bloggers the Oilers
dont ever use a SYSTEM of any type whatsoever---so i guess we will just take managements word that he wasnt getting er done,as with ALL OF THEIR
MANAGEMENT DECISIONS WE ARE LEFT IN THE DARK WITHOUT A SYSTEM TO BASELINE OUR ANALYSIS OFF OF.And the Oilers are well aware of this dynamic,we cant
fairly or accurately analyse the performance of players or any team personell without that critical core value system baseline.Only the front office
can---we are kept like money growing mushrooms,in the dark,well fed and cared for and covered in BS every time we get a little uptight and start to
ask the wrong questions.
Want to know how this crap can even be pulled off by a pro team??Just wait for the comedy routines about SYSTEM--SYSTEM--SYSTEM-- to start here in
cyberspace,seriously its endless,and it is the exact reason we cannot discover how to get out of this losing rut the organisation is mired in,our
skill level WILL NOT bail us out here.And most fans and bloggers dont understand the dynamic relationship between a teams SYSTEM OF PLAY and EVERY
decision the team makes in every area of its operations.The System is the CATALYST,that is no secret----what player or writer or even fan wouldnt or
couldnt know that simple fact????You already know the answer is ALL of them must realise this fact.So just tell the truth and say that systems are
very complicated and its always left to the coaches so most havent a clue how to understand them,most NHL players never coach,ever wonder why,now you
know,coaching is an entirely different animal than playing AT ANY LEVEL from pee-wee to Pro---and fans are just that much further away from the
reality of the game.Say it is technical and complicated and something not everyone can comprehend in a functional manner,and that most people wouldnt
enjoy working with this part of the game as opposed to playing it or watching it.But dont be cowardly and deny or supress the reality anf facts that
ALL TEAM USE SYSTEMS OF PLAY.And those systems of play CATALYSE everything those teams do,EVERYTHING.
This is the response by weak-kneed donut snorting site writer who later got the NHS banned for exposing his stats fixations and his continous furtive
subversive attacks on the toiling Oil.
@NewAgeSys
First off, kudos to me. I read that whole comment, and it was long and featured RANDOM CAPITALIZATION which can be a real challenge to slog
through.
With that said: I disagree completely. There are now 30 NHL clubs, and more than 20 when Fraser and his scouts were making their selections. The
success or failure of a player at the NHL level goes beyond a single team - though the initial team in particular can obviously have a massive impact.
Scouts are not recruiting players to fit in a given system. Based on team, different styles might be more prominent, particularly in the later rounds,
and team need can and does influence the decision, but the bottom line is that a scout is assessing each player's talents and saying 'this guy is the
pick that has the best shot at playing in the NHL.'
Systems change, coaches change, teams change. Ultimately, a player's true level of ability (as well, of course, as circumstance) are what earn him NHL
games.
As for your larger (and largely unrelated) point that systems dictate team performance: yes and no. Coaches can have a big impact on their respective
teams. A guy like Jacques Lemaire or Scotty Bowman can get more out of a club than a less capable coach, or a coach running a system ill-suited to his
personnel.
On the other hand, when you pick a great coach - really, any of them - you realize that they're also limited by the team at their disposal. The
2009-10 Edmonton Oilers were worse for the switch to Pat Quinn's rawhide setup, but they were going to be a bad team regardless. Scotty Bowman got a
lot out of the Canadiens but they'd also won Stanley Cups in five of seven years before he took the reins.
Systems matter, but the idea that there's a magic bullet solution that reinvigorates an entire organization is ludicrous. El Dorado doesn't exist.
Also: how on Earth are we supposed to know what Krueger's going to do before we see him get a full training camp in?
And finally: Yes, the scouts messed up. There's no magic system that makes Scott Allison a better pick than Keith Tkachuk. Thinking there is would be
insane.
---------------
This is my response to this fellas dribble......
---------------
With that said: I disagree completely. There are now 30 NHL clubs, and more than 20 when Fraser and his scouts were making their selections. The
success or failure of a player at the NHL level goes beyond a single team - though the initial team in particular can obviously have a massive impact.
--You are nuts Pal.If you are kept in a developmental cycle on the farm for an extra two or three years you pass the optimum threshhold for
establishing yourself in the NHL in a particular career curve and if coaches and systems on the big team change you might be lost forever.If a player
is scouted and indoctrinated into a farm team because the players has an intangible,say a natural defensive awareness that is balanced with an above
average offensive output,but his skating is average,and he is forcast to step into a system coached to utilise his Defensive awareness and above
average offense ABOVE his average skating--the coach and system are functionally eliminating his average skating by not requiring him to rag the puck
up and down the ice all night.Now if after his first sucessful year on the farm is complete and he has performed as expected ,BUT,the big team has
switched coaches and systems,that same player may be re-evaluated by a new coach in terms of a new system and this forces the player to be analysed on
JUST his physical abilitys and we lose all the scouting work put into the players intangibles and system suitability,and,if the average skating isnt
up to par for the new coach and system and the defensive awareness and above average offense never get a chance to be realised then the player is
deemed non-suitable and sent away to work on his skating WHICH WILL NEVER BE ABOVE AVERAGE AND WAS NEVER FORCAST TO BE SO.Hope the caps dont confuse
you .
Scouts are not recruiting players to fit in a given system. Based on team, different styles might be more prominent, particularly in the later rounds,
and team need can and does influence the decision, but the bottom line is that a scout is assessing each player's talents and saying 'this guy is the
pick that has the best shot at playing in the NHL.'
--How observant of you,no kidding scouts arent recruiting players to fit in a given system--jeepers man--I am obviously saying that the scouts are
approaching their jobs wrong when they fail to do this .What are you talking about "based on team, different styles might be prominent"get real
already---different SYSTEMS are obviously prominant.Dont substitute the word styles for SYSTEMS to try to weasel your perspective into being right or
accurate,it doesnt work.Later rounds of what??Explain why there is a difference in this regard between early and late rounds??No backing out now. "And
team need can and does influence the decision"You bet System[stop word games already and your intentional substitution of team for system to again
wordspin didnt work]needs can and do influence a successful scouts decisions.Whats your point you repeated my point but tried to eliminate the word
system again.You are regurgitating my points and twisting grammatical dynamics to spin the word SYSTEM out of the conversation----it doesnt
work.Because it is your error to not be using the word SYSTEM and the concept is obviously critical to any analysis you offer as a writer.You can say
"team"or "style"or whatever other spindoctor catchphrase you can dig up but it all comes back to the correct word SYSTEM.You cant change the fact that
the SYSTEM catalyses everything else you want to discuss and analyse.And all the Kings horses and all the Kings men wont help you change that,you may
try to garner as much support for your perspective as you choose,so what?Numbers and popular opinion dont equate to being right,correct ,or accurate
in your analysis,those things just equate to populatity which is what you are aiming for obviously.
Systems change, coaches change, teams change. Ultimately, a player's true level of ability (as well, of course, as circumstance) are what earn him NHL
games.
--Are you a drinker??SYSTEMS----COACHES---AND TEAMS---ARE SYNONMOUS.You try to seperate them to win cheezy little points you imagine make you right.A
coach first chooses a defined SYSTEM then he masters it himself with his assistants then he chooses players from the teams resources wherever that may
be even the farm SYSTEM that he feels who will be suitable contributors to this SYSTEM he then commands his players to execute that SYSTEM,it is all
about the SYSTEM.The SYSTEM is the core value and you must discuss it that way to be accurate.You dont want to do that,you want to beat around the
bush because you are bushleague and have no idea how to discuss Systems.So you try to break it down and spin doctor.
As for your larger (and largely unrelated) point that systems dictate team performance: yes and no. Coaches can have a big impact on their respective
teams. A guy like Jacques Lemaire or Scotty Bowman can get more out of a club than a less capable coach, or a coach running a system ill-suited to his
personnel.
--you dont seem to be related to reality,How coaches communicate and manage their SYSTEMS can have a big impact on those SYSTEMS performances--stop
trying to seperate these issues.A more capable coach who has a better system understanding or communication ability will maximise his overall SYSTEM
sucess levels by the proper managment of the system personel.A coach running a system ill-suited to his personell is exactly what we are
discussing,and this dynamic happens because their is an organisational breakdown that interupts SYSTEM continuity and places ill-suited players on the
bench.What dont you get word-doctor???The coach picks the system then the systems dynamic needs dictate the type players he picks--so ALL of his
options including the farm team have to be on HIS EXACT SYSTEM PAGE and provide him with the types of player dynamics or intangibles he needs at all
times,how he manages those players he picked and rotates them in and out defines the sucess that system will achieve.So what garble are you trying to
sell here??You want to put emphasis on players physical abilitys and skill levels,because thats all you can base your analysis on without any basic
understanding of NHL level SYSTEMS of play ,from an organisational standpoint right down to ice level you are clueless.A scout making sure he picks a
player who can demonstrate at minimum average NHL physical and skill levels is like putting your underwear on in the morning ,everybody does it,you
want to make it a big deal,well forget it.There is a lot more to scouting than that,and it ALL has to do with SYSTEM requirements DYNAMICLY that must
be incorporated into the physical and skill analysis of the overall system suitability of the individual as a whole.System System System,everywhere
you turn.
On the other hand, when you pick a great coach - really, any of them - you realize that they're also limited by the team at their disposal. The
2009-10 Edmonton Oilers were worse for the switch to Pat Quinn's rawhide setup, but they were going to be a bad team regardless. Scotty Bowman got a
lot out of the Canadiens but they'd also won Stanley Cups in five of seven years before he took the reins.
--Great coaches endorse and execute great SYSTEMS and they take them from team to team,it is the greatness of these coaches that allows them to
quickly reassess all the system assets they have available and dynamicly apply them to the NEW SYSTEM they bring with them by proxy as coaches.You
again try to break it down to avoid using the word SYSTEM,and again the spin doctoring doesnt work,you have to START with the word system and end with
it wether you like the taste of it or not.What you fail to discuss,is the fact that these coaches and their new SYSTEMS werent allowed to be as
efficient as they could have been because of contractual obligations and other team business that prevented them from blowing up their respective new
teams dynamicly,they couldnt very well bring up five or six guys from within the system even if they were better system assets,because you cant sent
25 million dollars in contracts to the farm team or the bench ,it isnt possible.So they were in fact handcuffed from day one,because they werent able
to properly man up what??You slippery weasel--THE SYSTEM--thats what,they didnt have unfettered acess to the exact resources they required.
Systems matter, but the idea that there's a magic bullet solution that reinvigorates an entire organization is ludicrous. El Dorado doesn't exist.
--SYSTEM CONTINUITY ACHIEVES THIS GRASSHOPPER.The Stanley Cup is El Dorado and it most certainly does exist,you just cant see a way to get to it so
you choose to claim it doesnt exist----thats called a losing mentality,judging by the mentality you are showing thus far--aside from your
spellchecking--you cant afford to carry any more negativity.
Also: how on Earth are we supposed to know what Krueger's going to do before we see him get a full training camp in?
--Why dont you ask him??Why try to spin doctor again?And try to make it seem like Ralph doesnt have a specific SYSTEM he will use,only in your
delusional world does the word SYSTEM not catalyse everything .Are you insinuating that Ralph doesnt have a system decision made before we go through
training camp???Just ask him,are you afraid you wont understand what he says--dont worry you wont need spell check to get it??Do you NEED to SEE the
players at camp to criticise them without learning more about what they are actually trying to accomplish SYSTEMWISE?
You are correctly illustrating the effects of the inadequacies of the scouts ,but you are focusing on the results,not the cause or the catalyst of the
problem itself,you are doing the equivilant of focusing on the stats instead of how they were produced,you have a total fan perspective,results
orientated,not dynamics orientated,as a writer you should try to be more well rounded then you will find yourself being less critical.And you WILL
learn why you are misguided in your overt aviodance and critique of any SYSTEM based perspectives you encounter here and anywhere else.And you will
find you have more to write about ,not less.You dont need to break down a system concept into word games to create discussion topics and avenues of
blame that keep people hot for the bloodlust and quick to point the finger of blame and criticism.That is sensationalism,kinda like the cheezy rags
you read at the supermarket checkout with headlines like"three-headed twins born to Tom Cruise"or whatever.I like your articles sometimes in fact most
times,but ocassionally they are lacking in dynamic anknowledgment and content,a little baseless,like having someone tell you about Game seven of the
Stanley Cup Final that ended in Triple overtime using only statistical terminology and perspective,discussing zero dynamic content,an analysis devoid
of emotion of dynamic description.This initial analysis is criticism intended,break it down to stats and start assesing credit or blame based on only
that set of dynamic factors,excluding all others especially any SYSTEM based dynamics.If we put responsibility where it belongs,at the feet of the
system,you run out of things to critique,you go from four or more topics to write about to one,you have to refer to the system FIRST instead of --the
players,the team,the coaches,the scouts,the therapists,you cannot define a players value by their stats like you want to do you are forced to credit
the SYSTEM,unless you can break things down dynamicly to suit your intentions you have a hard time finding things to dscuss or criticise.And once you
accept that the SYSTEM catalyses everything it is a no-brainer to see that the scouts must abide strictly by current and immediate system needs in
their future asset evaluations,they need realtime input.And there is a lagtime or an adjustment and reevaluation period before coaches have a proper
system suitability analysis on every player every time there is a coaching and by proxy SYSTEM change within an organisation,unless the new coach is
forced to execute a system dictated by managment as opposed to himself.In that case there is a forced or artificially induced dynamic focus or view
that diminishes the coaches own individual intangibles and we get less bang for our buck because their creativity and natural tendancies are being
managed by someone elses SYSTEM decision.
System continuity is a core value in every single facet of a championship organization and a championship result.Without it a scouts effectivness is
diminished in large part rendering them incapable of producing system suitable assets at the right time,scouts are visionaries or futurists and if you
keep changing the parameters they are basing their hypothesis on you shoot them in the foot.The SYSTEM must remain the same ofr as many years as it
takes to realise the potentials of ALL the scouts picks,any time this continuity is broken all the scouts decisions actually become wrong or less
right or accurate.The Oilers have suffered a series of these dynamic landmines.This is an organizational flaw a lack of SYSTEM CONTINUITY not a
scouting weakness
edit on 9-4-2015 by one4all because: (no reason given)