The Crucifixion: A Medical Perspective

See my crucifixion thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

for clarification on matters regarding the Passion and Crucifixion

reply to post by wildtimes

This is so ridiculous.

Atwill, in his book, Caesar's Messiah: The Roman Conspiracy to Invent Jesus, says that according to the Jewish belief of that time, the person's soul leaves them permanently after so many days, where he says Lazarus, since he had been dead four days, could have been physically resurrected by Jesus, but he would have been basically an animated but soulless person.
For Jesus, according to this belief (if it is real), to have his soul back in his body once he was resurrected, then he would have had to have it happen within a certain amount of time. Monday would have been too late. That is what I am saying, based on this argument (in the above paragraph) by Atwill, which is something new to me.

reply to post by wildtimes


Have you ever wondered how Jesus Christ could be crucified on Friday and be resurrected on Sunday after being buried for three days? Well, that's impossible! You cannot squeeze three days between Friday and Sunday. By no stretch of the imagination is it possible to stretch the period from Friday evening to Sunday morning into "three days and three nights."

We believe that Jesus Christ died on a Wednesday. We do not believe that Jesus died on Friday. Let's turn to Matthew 12:40, and notice Christ's own prophecy pertaining to His death, burial, and resurrection. "For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth (Matthew 12:40)." "Three days and three nights" means seventy-two hours. Jesus defined the length of a day in John 11:9. Our Lord said, "Are there not twelve hours in a day?" Well, if there are twelve hours in a day, then there are twelve hours in a night. And therefore, three days and three nights would be 72 hours. Anything less than 72 hours would not fulfill the prophecy of Jonah or the words of Jesus Christ.

Perhaps you're wondering why the vast majority of Christians accept the Friday-to-Sunday burial of Christ if it is wrong? The only answer that can be given is tradition. "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. (Colossians 2:8)." This is a tradition not taught in the Bible. Ash Wednesday and Lent also are not in the Bible. Even the word "Easter" is pagan, and it is not found in the Bible. In the King James Version the word "Easter" does occur in Acts 12:4, but is a mistranslation. The word "Easter" comes from the word "Ish-tar" and is the same as Ashtaroth, a pagan deity. We celebrate the resurrection of Christ again from the dead.




Denial of the Truth is so ridiculous.

reply to post by Iason321


Do you have scripture that says he died on a Wednesday instead of passages that relate to the OT. We all know 72 hours equals three days. Which is not what "tradition" equals.

reply to post by Iason321

Have you ever wondered how Jesus Christ could be crucified on Friday and be resurrected on Sunday after being buried for three days? Well, that's impossible! You cannot squeeze three days between Friday and Sunday. By no stretch of the imagination is it possible to stretch the period from Friday evening to Sunday morning into "three days and three nights."

It was 3 days dude. Jewish days are not like our days. Jewish days begin at dusk, our days begin at midnight but most people do not even get busy until 6-8 am. He went in the ground before dusk on friday so it was still friday. He had to be in the ground before dusk or his death would have defiled the High Sabbath Passover feast. When it reached dusk on friday it was officially saturday. At dusk saturday it was offically sunday and he arose when it was still dark sunday morning.

So in essence Friday begins Thursday night at dusk, Saturday begins at dusk Friday and Sunday begins at dusk Saturday. Thats 3 days jewish reckoning. He arose when it was still dark sunday morning, probably between midnight and around 4-5 am. You're thinking our time periods but jewish days are not like ours. The NT was written by hebrews. To gentiles it would have been 2 days but to hebrews it was 3 days which is why the NT says 3 days and not 2.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Was it a Roman flagellum? They had imbedded pieces of bone, metal, or glass in the flays.

Sure was... complete with the nasty little hooks at the end...

Post the video then.

Then tell us why the ancient historians who wrote about Roman scourging all lied to everyone.

reply to post by wildtimes

From Friday afternoon to Sunday is NOT three days and three nights.

Did I say from Friday afternoon till Sunday morning? That's Roman Catholic dogma. The Bible says "SABBATHS" (plural). Friday was the Passover Sabbath, and Saturday was the normal weekly Sabbath. High feast days on their religious calender are called "high Sabbaths" or "feast Sabbaths". It was the Jewish equivalent of one of our 3-day holiday weekends. You also must place it in context, Jesus was a Jew speaking to Jews so you must use Jewish reckoning to determine the days and nights, not Julian reckoning for time. In Jewish reckoning the "day" begins at sundown, and ends at dusk the next "day". We reckon days from midnight to midnight, not the Jews. Also, any part of one day even if it's an hour is still considered 1 day.

It's just the way the Jews reckon time. Jesus was crucified on a Thursday.


According to Jewish Reckoning:


Thursday dead and in the tomb before dusk: 1 Day
Thursday sundown till Friday dawn: 1 Night
Friday (Passover) dawn until Friday dusk: 1 Day
Friday sundown until Saturday dawn: 1 Night
Saturday (weekly Sabbath) dawn until Saturday dusk: 1 Day
Saturday sundown until Sunday dawn: 1 Night

Sunday resurrection. (3 days and 3 nights)

The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

John 19:31

reply to post by Iason321

Denial of the Truth is so ridiculous.

What is this "truth"? What you believe?

We believe that Jesus Christ died on a Wednesday. We do not believe that Jesus died on Friday.

You say "we" twice. Who, other than yourself, is the we you are talking about?
I am guessing you are another ATS prophet, speaking for the "true" religion, or whatever.

reply to post by Iason321


Thursday not Wednesday, you have to use Jewish reckoning to count days. Jesus was a Jew speaking to Jews. It's called "contextual theology". But you're correct, a Friday crucifixion is Catholic dogma/tradition.

Originally posted by novastrike81
reply to post by Iason321

 

Do you have scripture that says he died on a Wednesday instead of passages that relate to the OT. We all know 72 hours equals three days. Which is not what "tradition" equals.

It was Thursday, Passover is a Feast Holiday so it's a High day, "feast sabbath". And you have to use Jewish reckoning of time, not Julian. They were Jews. Any part of one day was considered a day, any part of 1 night was considered a night. And extrapolated out to a year, any part of 1 year was considered a year.

It's weird to us I know, but it's just the way the Jews counted time and reckoned days.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Jesus was crucified on a Thursday

That only works if you ignore Luke.

Then they returned and prepared aromatic spices and perfumes. On the Sabbath they rested according to the commandment. Now on the first day of the week, at early dawn, the women went to the tomb, taking the aromatic spices they had prepared.

Did Luke just skip a day?

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Jesus was crucified on a Thursday

That only works if you ignore Luke.

Then they returned and prepared aromatic spices and perfumes. On the Sabbath they rested according to the commandment. Now on the first day of the week, at early dawn, the women went to the tomb, taking the aromatic spices they had prepared.

Did Luke just skip a day?

Was Luke a Gentile or a Jew?

Also Luke is taking about the weekly Sabbath (Saturday). Resting inside the dwelling isn't a commandment for feat Sabbaths, all men over the age of 20 have to appear at the temple. Resting inside the dwelling is only a "commandment" for the weekly Sabbath, not a feast Sabbath or "High Day" Sabbath. Those Sabbaths were like national holidays.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Was Luke a Gentile or a Jew?

Welcome aboard the Luke Rejection Team. (and the rejection of the canon fallacy)
Luke, according to you, just doesn't know what he is talking about, being an ignorant gentile, and can be completely ignored.

Also Luke is taking about the weekly Sabbath (Saturday). Resting inside the dwelling isn't a commandment for feat Sabbaths, all men over the age of 20 have to appear at the temple. Resting inside the dwelling is only a "commandment" for the weekly Sabbath.

So what are you saying, then, that one entire day is accounted for by the preparing the spices?

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Was Luke a Gentile or a Jew?

Welcome aboard the Luke Rejection Team. (and the rejection of the canon fallacy)
Luke, according to you, just doesn't know what he is talking about, being an ignorant gentile, and can be completely ignored.

Welcome to the Straw Man Team. I never said that whatsoever. The point was he is a Gentile, who reckons time according to Gentiles. Jews use Jewish reckoning, not Gentiles. And besides all that, you ignored the rest of my post, Luke was only talking about the weekly Sabbath. Feast Sabbaths were not the weekly Sabbath, people were not required to stay inside their homes and not go outside. Every male over the age of 20 had to appear at the temple on feast Sabbaths, there were 3 per year all men over 20 had to do this.

reply to post by jmdewey60

So what are you saying, then, that one entire day is accounted for by the preparing the spices?

They did that on Friday after the body was laid in the tomb, then rested in the home from sundown till sundown on the weekly Sabbath. Feast Sabbaths have no commandment to stay inside the home and not go outside, that's a commandment for the weekly Sabbath.

52This man went unto Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus.

53And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid.

54And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on.

55And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid.

56And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

They did that on Friday after the body was laid in the tomb, then rested in the home from sundown till sundown on the weekly Sabbath.

So, what are you saying, then, that on a so-called feast sabbath, or whatever it is you are trying to imply, it was fine somehow to prepare the spices, but not ok to use them?
You are throwing out a lot of distracting information.
You are putting out irrelevant bits of stuff but never getting to the important part. What was preventing them from going to the tomb, according to your theory, with the spices, on Friday, if he was placed in it on Thursday?
And why did Luke not mention the extra day?

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

You're denying I proclaim the miracle called a resurrection. Miracles are event horizons that defy the known sciences. They have no naturalistic explanation and rest in the metaphysical.

Stop lying. I've only ever said He was dead for 3 days and 3 nights. Blatant lying doesn't help your argument one iota. It greatly damages it. Only people who have no rationed argument resort to deception to prove a point or win an argument. Lying about what your opponent says shows you subconsciously are panicking and admit defeat. only the cognitive dissonance is preventing the conscious person from making the admission.

Nobody denies you claim a miracle, and you shift horses in mid stream with doing that. First you point to medical science, reality science, then you trash medical science and reality and become all wet. Medical Science tells there is no recovery from brain death.

Your theme using Medical science tells Jesus is dead, then you depart from the medical science and proclaim some miracle. Show everyone where medical science belives anyone recovered from brain death. It doesn't happen.

Thus, your own medical science that you used to begin your tale shows the lie you concocted to have Jesus come back to the living by a miracle. This is called fantasy land. It is called telling lies.

No one recovered from brain death in the world of medical science. Thus, medical science tells us that you lie.


The only way out of the lie, and to stay consistent with medical science, is for Jesus to have never been brain dead, but clinging to life, and all the Essene Medical methods for healing from puncture wounds brought him back from near death. There is a way to stay rational in the explanation and in doing that one cannot have some faked up miracle. Miracles only stem from the low minded thinking of folks that didn't know medical science.

In general, most consider you propose to lie when there is use of a faked up miracle or faked up faith issue involved in any explanation. Medical Science recognizes people pass out and look dead, but there is still life. They also tell it is possible to recover only so long as there is no brain death.

Thus, in a rational world you become the one that supports telling fantastic lies, that Jesus was Brain Dead, and came back to life. That is pure non-sense and crazy thinking for rational minds observing it.

Rational thinking, critical thinking, tells Jesus didn't die. Rational thinking determines that you do lie.

Rational thinking, based on science, tell us that you engage in delusional thought.

Thus, you tell the lie.


So, when you proclaim Jesus was brain dead and then proclaim that he came back to life you proclaim that you have delusional thought process to sustain a fantstic lie. So, let the world of science and reality first consider that you appear delusional in thought process. imho

reply to post by MagnumOpus
You seem to be thinking that Jesus's resurrected body was like our standard bodies ...When THE Resurrection happens in the future all the bodies both living and the ones in the grave will be changed ..in a moment in the twinkling of a eye ...The redeemed get a new incorruptible body ..How have you missed this in your reading of the scriptures ? Jesus was the first born from the dead ...

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

They did that on Friday after the body was laid in the tomb, then rested in the home from sundown till sundown on the weekly Sabbath.

So, what are you saying, then, that on a so-called feast sabbath, or whatever it is you are trying to imply, it was fine somehow to prepare the spices, but not ok to use them?
You are throwing out a lot of distracting information.

Not "so called". Passover was one of the 3 appointed feasts that every man over 20 had to appear at the temple. The text says they were in their homes preparing the spices and such, then the Sabbath was upon them. That means it had become sundown on Friday. At that point it was the weekly Sabbath and they could not leave their homes according to the commandment. It was irrelevant if the spices were completely prepared or not, Sabbath had come, they stayed inside and rested.

You can't stand Jews, but in order to get this you could study their feasts, traditions, etc. it will not kill you to study them.

You are putting out irrelevant bits of stuff but never getting to the important part.

I've answered this issue 14 ways from Sunday.

What was preventing them from going to the tomb, according to your theory, with the spices, on Friday, if he was placed in it on Thursday?

The text in Luke that I just posted, and you posted said the Sabbath (weekly) had come and according to the commandment they stayed inside and rested. If they left the home they would be violating the weekly Sabbath. Feast or High Day Sabbaths had no command to remain inside one's dwelling, that was only a command for the weekly Sabbath. Feast or High Day Sabbaths there was no command like that, in fact men over 20 had to appear at the Temple. You must leave your dwelling to appear at the temple. Feast or High Day Sabbaths are like our national holidays, people didn't work and they celebrated.

And why did Luke not mention the extra day?

What extra day? They laid Him in the tomb. (end of Thursday, advent of Friday) They went into town and returned home to prepare the spices (Friday), they stayed in their homes according to the commandment (Saturday), and when they woke up (Sunday) morning they went to the tomb. He went into the tomb on Thursday just before Friday began according to Jewish reckoning (6 to 7ish pm)

reply to post by MagnumOpus


Again, no one claims His death was a miracle. The miracle was His resurrection. Miracles DEFY the laws of Physics and sciences, that's why they are called "miracles".