Legit Questions for ATS Liberals…Shed Some Light Please

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by jjf3rd77

 

without any of the sensationalist feel bad/feel good propaganda the left love to spew.

Too bad you couldn't refrain yourself from spewing your own "feel bad/feel good propaganda".

You have no idea what liberals love. You are too caught up in your own emotions.

Where in that statement am I spreading propaganda? And if defending Fox News is spreading propaganda then...There's no way you even need to respond to this.

Originally posted by Propulsion
I wish I could find the stats, but it has been proven that liberals change their views after a certain age. Usually thirty years of age on up. Can anyone explain why that is…?

This gives a general idea....

Conservatives Remain the Largest Ideological Group in U.S.

Cynicism... Reaching a place in life where you say screw everyone else, I only care about myself, my pocket book, my beliefs.

reply to post by LErickson


I couldn't have said it better myself. The question's are utterly ridiculous. I had to laugh my ass off concerning the Sarah Palin question.....omg.... I think I'm still on the floor over that one.

.... Abortion and the death penalty.... Two different subjects but what worries me, is that this OP really see's a coralation between the two? With that question being asked along w/ the others, but that one being the worst... I would have to say....

Hell....there's nothing to say because the questions are basically ( sorry ) ridiculous. As in the abortion-death I've got to say... 2 different subjects and how anyone could say there 1 in the same belief system when there 2 different issues leaves me Stupified.

I was the last reply on the conservative thread and just for the sake of fairness I will try to approach this from a left point of view, I may screw up the whole quote thing on this so bare with me.

Originally posted by seabag

1) Homosexuality and Muslims - Devote Muslims kill homosexuals for being homosexual (fact). Yet, liberals support both the Homosexual agenda in America as well as Muslim Sharia Law. What gives?

If they do in fact kill homosexuals and it is part of their religious leanings then we can not tell them what to believe. what we can do is allow them the right to self govern their own interactions with others and stay away from homosexuals. As far as allowing them to kill one for their orientation we do not allow murder in this country.


2) Racism – (Hot topic these days…I know…I will tread lightly) It seems liberals keep the term “racists” alive. Why are vocal black democrats given praise by the left (Sharpton, Jackson, Rangel, Shiela Jackson Lee, etc) while vocal black conservatives (Clarence Thomas, Alan West, Herman Cain, etc) called names by the left?

Is it fair to say that we should allow that each individual keep the cultural identity of their ancestors alive. I see no problem if someone would like to be called American-african, American-hispanic, American-native, or something of the likes. but we should all be recognized as Americans first in this country, that way we show a common ground that runs between us. (I am not sure I can provide a good answear for this, because a minority on the left and right both partake in such practices)

Also, why do liberals continue to promote social programs that enslave blacks at poverty level? Left policies have NEVER led to black prosperity (Chicago, Detroit, ALL of California, etc are good examples) yet they get the majority of the black vote. What does the left offer that should inspire black Americans and keep their vote? I think the tide is turning, by the way. This video is a good illustration of what I’ve said.

I believe with the somwhat decline of churches in this country and the breakdown of the family unit, that traditionaly provided support, that we should be allowed to extend are help to people less fourtunate then us. I think this goal could be accomplished to some extent by government programs best ran on the state level with an optional payment made in taxes to support this. This allows for those who want and have the money and time to take a more direct pereson to person approach to keep their money and help the individuals around them while allowing them to grow their since of community involvment and solidarity. And for those who can't get invovled personally to extend their help to others through a regulated channel that is elected and within the state that would still be living amoungst those to be helped to better be held reponsible for the money they spend for the casues to combat what ever problem the optional pay in program was created for.

3) Pro Women yet Anti Conservative Women – Liberals say they’re for women’s rights yet they destroyed Sarah Palin and her family in 2008. Liberals love Hillary but what did they have to say about Condoleezza?? Have liberals ever denounced all of the chauvinist remarks about Bachman?

I will skip this one cause I feel like it kinda ties to some previous questions.

LAST BUT NOT LEAST…

4) Pro Abortion yet Anti-Death Penalty – Need I say more on this issue?

Is it not possible that we consider that a child inside a women to actually be her own cells, and that the unborn child has not gained his independence from the woman until it has left her body. That the man's dna that is growing in the child is in fact a trespass against the woman, since they do not in fact belong to her and she does not want them their. So they have the right to remove the trespassor.

And to be anti death penalty, could we not provide for a way to exile the worest amoungst us, maybe set up a base on either one of the polar regions or on some of the uninhabited islands and leave their survival up to them. Who are we to take the life of an individual that has already recived that gift of their first brith on this earth, should we have a say then when everyone should take their last.

I am not of a liberal leaning but I thought I should at least give this an honest thought and try to argue from the other side if only to give and gain a newer revised understanding.

reply to post by seabag

1) Homosexuality and Muslims - Devote Muslims kill homosexuals for being homosexual (fact). Yet, liberals support both the Homosexual agenda in America as well as Muslim Sharia Law. What gives?
4) Pro Abortion yet Anti-Death Penalty – Need I say more on this issue? (nice rolling eyes addition)

Could one not point out the same hypocrisy as the religious conservatives that support death penalty, war and intolerance, yet adamantly value life that has not even formed into a fetus yet. Religion is about tolerance, forgiveness, love thy enemy....

2) Racism – (Hot topic these days…I know…I will tread lightly) It seems liberals keep the term “racists” alive. Why are vocal black democrats given praise by the left (Sharpton, Jackson, Rangel, Shiela Jackson Lee, etc) while vocal black conservatives (Clarence Thomas, Alan West, Herman Cain, etc) called names by the left?

Now you know name-calling is not party exclusive, and in fact the political arena is never free of finger pointing and name calling, so there is nothing liberal about, imo.

3) Pro Women yet Anti Conservative Women – Liberals say they’re for women’s rights yet they destroyed Sarah Palin and her family in 2008. Liberals love Hillary but what did they have to say about Condoleezza?? Have liberals ever denounced all of the chauvinist remarks about Bachman?

Because people were upset that someone not that bright, that has a gunslinger approach to blaming others, may actually get a position of power and influence. She also dodged questions and answered unintelligently. Conde is the opposite party so naturally she won't get as much love from the left. Plus there is that whole "we never expected a plane to be flown into a building" testimony, shortly after the memo.
Have conservatives ever denounced the chauvinist remarks about Hillary? Too short of a skirt may show her testes? Bachman comments were not chauvinistic, but more critical of here crazy looks and stepford wife antics, plus the hypocrisy of blaming the gov yet still accepting funding from them for her youth programs.

So I think the madness comes from both sides, and unfortunately the more fringe and sensationalist perspectives are the ones that spill out into mainstream and get everybody angry and twisted. Politics can be so futile and I personally have decided to judge in simple terms, not left or right, but does the person, bill or legislation divide or unite? I am for uniting...

ETA: For me, it is not an "either or" situation, we need aspects from both parties, and when one is blamed for most of or all the problems, well it is unfair and inaccurate. Shaping the discussions so one-sided never does any good, it only pits people against each other and raises animosity. The eagle cannot fly with just one wing, or us children need both a mother and father figure in politics, not just one.

Top reasons why Sharia law is bad…

Sharia Law

10. Islam commands that drinkers and gamblers should be whipped.

9. Islam allows husbands to hit their wives even if the husbands merely fear highhandedness in their wives.

8. Islam allows an injured plaintiff to exact legal revenge—physical eye for physical eye.

7. Islam commands that a male and female thief must have a hand cut off.

6. Islam commands that highway robbers should be crucified or mutilated.

5. Islam commands that homosexuals must be executed.

4. Islam orders unmarried fornicators to be whipped and adulterers to be stoned to death.

3. Islam orders death for Muslim and possible death for non—Muslim critics of Muhammad and the Quran and even sharia itself.

2. Islam orders apostates to be killed

1. Islam commands offensive and aggressive and unjust jihad.

I got talking with a Muslim friend about radical Muslims in the world. He was telling me about how most Muslims are good people just making their way thru life like everyone else. He told me that it’s only about 1% we need worry about. So I got myself thinking. How many radical Muslims are really running around out there in the world?

In the United States of America, we currently have 310,338,864 Americans living inside our borders. I will not take in account how many Americans live abroad. Out of the 310,338,864, there are between 6 and 10 million Muslims living here in the United States. It is believed that about 8 million are considered “spiritual” Muslims. If we take the proverbial 1% we consider radical Muslims running around here in the United States of America, out of that 8 million, that would leave around 80,000. If you want to take into account how many Muslims live in the world today. The Wikipedia report estimates 1.57 billion as the most reliable estimate. That is over 5 times the amount of people who live in the United States. If you want to take 1% that are considered radical Muslims that we need not worry about, out of the 1.57 billion, we are looking at about 15,700,000. I if you want to go a little further, let’s take 1% of the radicals Muslims we can call super-duper radical Muslims. Out of the 14,700,000, we would have 147,000. Now to go even further, let’s take 1% of 147,000 we can call suicide bombers. Out of the 147,000, we would have 1,470.

-Propulsion

1% can be a whole bus load of radical Muslims. I’m tired of people who think 1% of anything means squat!

Islam is growing in an expediential rate.

reply to post by jjf3rd77


" And if defending Fox News is spreading propaganda then...There's no way you even need to respond"

Hell yes defending Fox News is spreading of propaganda. They have been busted over and over again not just doing illeagle activities... But we also have proof of them spreading propaganda... Lie lie lie

Do a google search and you'll see all the evidence before you in heaps!

ere's a starter for you....
www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by seabag

1) Homosexuality and Muslims - Devote Muslims kill homosexuals for being homosexual (fact). Yet, liberals support both the Homosexual agenda in America as well as Muslim Sharia Law. What gives?

Homosexual agenda? What the hell is that? it sounds sinister.

All sweeping generalizations aside, the only reason I don't push my morals on other people, whether they be gay, muslim or whatever, is because I don't want them to do it to me. How is allowing someone to follow their own doctrines, dogmas and lifestyles hypocritical? Wouldn't the hypocrite do the opposite?

2) Racism – (Hot topic these days…I know…I will tread lightly) It seems liberals keep the term “racists” alive. Why are vocal black democrats given praise by the left (Sharpton, Jackson, Rangel, Shiela Jackson Lee, etc) while vocal black conservatives (Clarence Thomas, Alan West, Herman Cain, etc) called names by the left?

Because race has nothing to do with it. The left promotes these pundits because they share some of their views and fall under the same political category, not because of the color of their skin. Only you, and others who touch on such issues, make it about race.

Also, why do liberals continue to promote social programs that enslave blacks at poverty level? Left policies have NEVER led to black prosperity (Chicago, Detroit, ALL of California, etc are good examples) yet they get the majority of the black vote. What does the left offer that should inspire black Americans and keep their vote? I think the tide is turning, by the way. This video is a good illustration of what I’ve said.

I'm not American, but the left probably offers less bigotry. Once again, it isn't a race issue until you, and others who touch on such issues, make it so.

3) Pro Women yet Anti Conservative Women – Liberals say they’re for women’s rights yet they destroyed Sarah Palin and her family in 2008. Liberals love Hillary but what did they have to say about Condoleezza?? Have liberals ever denounced all of the chauvinist remarks about Bachman?

There's no hypocrisy here. The fact that these people are women have nothing to do with it, it was their policies and political views that the left did or didn't like. Only you, and others who touch on such issues, make it about gender.

LAST BUT NOT LEAST…

4) Pro Abortion yet Anti-Death Penalty – Need I say more on this issue?

I’m really not looking for a fight and I truly want to understand what my fellow Americans of the liberal persuasion are thinking, particularly on these issues. I have other questions but this is good enough to get the ball rolling. I will keep my responses civil and on topic and I ask that you do the same.

What say you?

The same can be said about the right: anti-abortion, yet pro death penalty. The human life appears to hold more value to the left, as humans—not fetuses, not sperm, not organs—are advocated for. Kill the criminal, let the woman die, but pro-life?

In conclusion:

These questions actually shed some light on you, your mind and way of thinking:

• To you, everyone who is different deserves the harshest scrutiny which you yourself seem to be immune from.

• You are superficial; you are only capable of touching on superficial subjects such as race and gender, and if I was to think like you, I would have to assume all conservatives were the same.

• Despite the impossibility of this happening, you think everyone should share the same morals as you, and would push them on others, even to the point of allowing the government to do so—as long as they aligned with your own morals of course.

• You are locked in Aristotelean logic; things are either this or that, you would never acknowledge the varying degrees of probabilities in things, like how conservatives can hold some left-leaning views and vice-versa.

• You are white, straight, male, religious and above the poverty line. If you're not, I'd have to call you an idiot for promoting these issues, as that's all they're good at protecting.

Originally posted by seabag
What say you?

I don't think democrats are very "liberal" at all, that's what I say.

If anything they are giving real liberalism a bad name, that might be the point.

Originally posted by tracehd1
reply to post by jjf3rd77

 

" And if defending Fox News is spreading propaganda then...There's no way you even need to respond"

Hell yes defending Fox News is spreading of propaganda. They have been busted over and over again not just doing illeagle activities... But we also have proof of them spreading propaganda... Lie lie lie

Do a google search and you'll see all the evidence before you in heaps!

ere's a starter for you....
www.youtube.com...

We could turn this Q&A on it's head...

FOX news was directly responsible for ensuring the support for both wars
and all the government induced security measures. This includes the two
trillion dollar price tag, which is reflected in the national debt...

So I wonder how Conservatives can watch or trust FOX as it has instigated
many of the things they are so angry about now. You don't like the national
debt??? 15% of that debt was shilled on by FOX on the behalf of government
communications. Or how about the attack on liberty??? Remember the color
coded fear charts, FOX defended those bitterly and generally had a large
role in many of the things conservatives are upset about.

Originally posted by seabag
1) Homosexuality and Muslims - Devote Muslims kill homosexuals for being homosexual (fact). Yet, liberals support both the Homosexual agenda in America as well as Muslim Sharia Law. What gives?

What source told you that all liberals support Sharia law? Did you come this conclusion yourself? I'm a liberal and I don't personally support sharia law, so wouldn't this make your assumption false? I think so.

I support the rights of muslims and gays to get on with their own lives, if either violate each others rights then this should dealt with. It's not my job or business and it's not the government's business to regulate how they should live. Now if you're talking about sharia law in other countries, while islamic law is contrary to basic freedoms, it's not our business to police the world.

2) Racism – (Hot topic these days…I know…I will tread lightly) It seems liberals keep the term “racists” alive.

That's because racism still exists. Are you denying that racism exists at all? Considering that we hear about black racism all the time on this very website, I'm surprised you'd make this claim.

Why are vocal black democrats given praise by the left (Sharpton, Jackson, Rangel, Shiela Jackson Lee, etc) while vocal black conservatives (Clarence Thomas, Alan West, Herman Cain, etc) called names by the left?

What's your point? Many people like sharpton, jasckson, many people, including myself, deslike them and disagree. I don't like Alan West and Herman Cain either. Why are you generalizing like this? Maybe you should give some thought into what you post before, you know, posting,

lso, why do liberals continue to promote social programs that enslave blacks at poverty level?

You mean blacks are being forced not to work and to be on welfare? What a strange argument to make. I support programmes like medicare, medicaid, welfare, programmes that will assist folks in their time of need, black, white, asian etc. The private healthcare insurers don't give a damn, the jobs on there are rockbottom, in Atlanta last year more than 1000 folks, mostly black, lined up at McDonalds for 10 positions available. What does this say? More assumptions from you again.

3) Pro Women yet Anti Conservative Women – Liberals say they’re for women’s rights yet they destroyed Sarah Palin and her family in 2008.

Palin doesn't represent all women, and she wasn't attacked merely over being a woman, this is false. I find it hypocritical for the conservatives to go on about the sexism against Palin after the way they treated Clinton, it's really pathetic. As for Palin, she's a nutter, there's not much more to say.

Condoleezza?

Condoleezza was front and center in the Neoconservative machine, she kept her mouth shut during all the actions of the Bush administration. She's a smart cookie, but her actions, her support for many of the Bush administrations policy, just doesn't jive with me at all.

4) Pro Abortion yet Anti-Death Penalty – Need I say more on this issue?

You know we can swap this around for conservatives to argue? Pro-life, yet pro-death penality.

As for abortion, I don't believe a fertilized egg is a human being, and I don't think we have the right to take the life of a fully developed human being in revenge of a crime, also considering the many innocent men who died based by the death penalty.

Are you pro-death penalty?

reply to post by seabag

1)
Liberals support gay people and muslims being able to live their lives free from persecution, judgement and harassment. If anyone kills anyone based on their religious beliefs and the victim's supposed violation of said beliefs, then their rights to participate in society should be revoked. No liberal wants to see gays killed for being gay. no liberal wants to see one religious group's so-called "laws" promoted by the state.

You can be muslim in america without killing gays or imposing sharia law on your neighbors. there's this conservative insistence that "true" muslims are the murderous fringe extremists. if that is the case, then all "true" muslims found in america should go to prison. luckily, that's not the case. it's kind of like how not every christian beats gays and drags them behind their pickup trucks.

as far as the "gay agenda" goes... Liberals want the state to view a marriage between two consenting homosexual adults as exactly the same as a marriage between two consenting heterosexual adults. Liberals also would like to make sure that the state views crimes against "minorities because they're minority" as just as horrendous as crimes against "gays because they're gay." No violation of the "sanctity" of christian marriage. No indoctrination of the children into the "gay lifestyle" (whatever that means, gays are just as diverse as straights). Just no persecution and undue judgement. For anyone. Over anything short of actual crimes.


2)
Liberals praise liberal blacks and lambast conservative blacks. Just like they praise liberal (any race)s and lambast conservative (any race)s. Simple and identical to what the Right does to the Left.

As for the welfare programs, they are designed to help the poor, not the blacks. though an alarmingly disproportionate number of the poor ARE blacks so CONGRATS you're catching on to the whole racial inequality in the 21st century thing!!

BUT, the programs are gravitated toward and supported by ALL the people who use them because there are no alternatives offered by the Right. Even if all of these programs are (why on earth would you use THIS term to discuss THIS topic?!?) "slavery" as you say, why would the people who utilize these systems vote for "no solution" over "this ill advised Left solution"?

but you're right about the turning tide. people are beginning to see that affirmative action and welfare and things of this nature need to be fine tuned and refined for the modern era. what are YOUR suggestions for fixing racial inequalities?!


3)
This is basically the same false argument as question 2. "If you liberals are so PRO women then why don't you like sarah palin?!" As i said in the previous answer, why would a liberal person support a conservative woman who doesn't agree with their world view? just because she's a woman? that's sexism just like saying "you support the civil rights movement so you support all blacks and all agendas" is racism.

Liberals want gender equality. Liberals want a woman to be 100% in control of what happens to her body and how her health is managed. Sarah Palin and Michelle Bachmann want to deny women access to certain healthcare options deemed "immoral" by the Right, conservative moral minority.

Sarah Palin is a money/fame-seeking quitter who has ruined her own family by dragging them into a national spotlight she was not prepared to be in. Don't blame the Left for anything that woman has put her family through. and Rice?! Liberals hate her for the same reasons they hate Colin Powell; they helped fudge the intel and spread the lies leading to our invasions and subsequent occupations of the free and sovereign nations of Iraq and Afghanistan.

4)
No liberal that I have ever met is pro-abortion. When i was awaiting the birth of my first child, none of my liberal friends congratulated me with abortion clinic pamphlets or said "oh, i bet you can't wait to abort that fetus!!"

The term you're searching for is "Pro-Choice." This means that, having ascertained that abortion is real and happens all the time, a liberal would like to see girls and women who feel that they NEED an abortion to have access to the safest procedures, best equipment and most competent doctors and medical staff. It does not mean that you WANT anyone to get an abortion. Legislating based on how we wish the world could be is a fool's pursuit.

and this has NOTHING to do with the death penalty. Liberals don't believe that you can have credibility as a society if you say "You cannot kill anyone, or we will kill you." it's hypocritical for the punishment for a crime to be enduring that crime yourself. if something is wrong, it's always wrong. a liberal would like to see an effective corrective rehabilitation system instead of the worthless criminal education/punishment system we have now.
(ps, i want social equality AND small gov't!!)

ATS moderators, this thread seems to have degenerated into name calling and seemed to be a baiting thread from the start?

Was wondering how this continues to meet the "new standards" on ATS?

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by LErickson

 

Thanks for the response...now let me address it.

That is a nonsense question. Apparently you do not know much about Sharia law. You have to ask questions that make sense in order to get answers.

How is it nonsense? Conservatives are not the ones pushing (or turning a blind eye to) the Muslim Sharia agenda…liberals are. Sharia promotes the killing of homosexuals. How can you support both...honestly??

Most liberals I know wish Sharpton would shut the hell up and go away. I am not sure how anyone here can answer for a group of people in your imagination.
Are you expecting "The left" to sign up and post in your thread?

RIGHT!!

He just got his own TV show!!

How about Charles Rangel? He’s been reelected HOW MANY times?? Please!

Social programs are social programs. Who makes black people utilize them more than white people? Liberals do that? How?

LIBERALS want EVERYONE dependent on the system. Liberal policies make it too easy for people of all races to have no self-reliance or self-dependency. Look at the border issue…this is simply a way to get desperate people on the government dole and voting for liberals. Conservatism teaches people to provide for themselves and be responsible. What liberal policy promotes self reliance?????

This is such a lame argument. Sarah Palin is not "women." It is just that simple. Hating George Bush does not equal hating all men so hating Palin does not equal hating women.

She’s not a woman??

I rest my case! Thanks!

Go educate yourself on Sharia law. Ask Sharptons fans why they like Sharpton but not Thomas. Sarah Palin is an evil idiot. Other women are not. What about abortion and the death penalty?

Abortion is taking a human life. The death penalty is taking a human life. One is innocent while the other has exhausted all appeals. Liberals PROMOTE the taking of innocent life while denouncing the taking of a person’s life who has been convicted of MURDER.

edit on 7-4-2012 by seabag because: (no reason given)

Seabag you are totally on target in this thread. The hypocrisy of the left is stunning. I especially love your point on Sarah Palin too! Liberals of every brand completely trashed her. They cannot afford to have a strong conservative powerful woman in place.

reply to post by RicoMarston


You missed Seabag's point entirely. The point is why promote one thing then promote another thing which condemns it? The answer is unfortunately that Sharia Law undermines the Constitution and liberals don't care if their hypocrisy is showing under the dress.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

Seabag you are totally on target in this thread. The hypocrisy of the left is stunning. I especially love your point on Sarah Palin too! Liberals of every brand completely trashed her. They cannot afford to have a strong conservative powerful woman in place.

edit on 8-4-2012 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

Her strength is not her problem sir, her lack of intelligence is... The two senior most advisors
to her VP run, devote conservatives operatives, had the fortitude to expose the obvious truth.
The woman was so unintelligent she was a liability -

GWB was a prime example of why it is a bad idea to have an extremely unintelligent, yet strong and
powerful conservative person serve as President or Vice President.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

liberals don't care if their hypocrisy is showing under the dress.

Way to continue the division...
Hypocrisy knows no side, it is usually for those that bark the loudest and make the boldest of claims without checking their own positions and perspectives thoroughly and honestly.

reply to post by RicoMarston

This is basically the same false argument as question 2. "If you liberals are so PRO women then why don't you like sarah palin?!"

You are right, liberal feminists only promote that which is ultra liberal, not that which is womanly. They promote something only if it exists in their flawed (to use Savage's term red diaper doper baby) communist agenda, not anything which could be construed as having any type of conservative values, like oh keeping a baby regardless of it's handicapped nature( see Progressives history on eugenics for that) or oh elk hunting because it involves scary guns and not being necessarily vegan animal rights-centric, or promoting energy independence at home because oh my goodness the evil carbon footprint!

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by RicoMarston

 

You missed Seabag's point entirely. The point is why promote one thing then promote another thing which condemns it? The answer is unfortunately that Sharia Law undermines the Constitution and liberals don't care if their hypocrisy is showing under the dress.

Like conservatives growing government last decade and then protesting it after they
were ejected from DC???

Or how about starting a two Trillion dollar war and protesting out of control spending?
I thought war was optional???

Or how about the color coded terror charts and the systematic attack on privacy
and civil liberties?

Originally posted by speculativeoptimist
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

 

liberals don't care if their hypocrisy is showing under the dress.

Way to continue the division...

Maybe but I'm right!