Legit Questions for ATS Liberals…Shed Some Light Please

Originally posted by petrus4
I haven't heard anyone non-Islamic, even those who would consider themselves on the Left, say that they actively want Sharia Law.

That's a good point.

Luckily, a slim majority of Western Muslims (if a survey of British Muslim students is representative) also appear to not want Sharia law, however tolerance for homosexuality (in another survey of UK Muslims in general) appears to be zero.

Survey on what British Muslim students believe.

• 39% want Sharia law introduced into British Law for Muslims
• 42% do not want Sharia law introduced into British Law for Muslims
• 20% are not sure

YouGov

One can only hope that the 20% who are undecided do not lean towards Sharia.

In another poll, no UK Muslims found homosexuality acceptable

When 500 British Muslims were interviewed, none believed that homosexual acts were acceptable.

The Guardian

So in one poll of UK students, a slim majority do not want Sharia law in the UK, while in another poll of Muslims in general, none found homosexuality acceptable.

In light of homosexualty being illegal under Sharia law, I can understand why liberals do not support it.

reply to post by poet1b


I wanted to respond this morning, but being on my phone, I pretty much agree with everything you said. If I get the chance later I will add more, because my phone is not an optimal input device.

LOL those are some of the worst questions I have ever read. But I'll answer as if I'm a liberal even though I'm neutral.

1. A lot of liberals I know do not like Sharia Law, why would they? It's oppressive. TV liberals don't count unless you consider Bill O Reilly a spokes person for conservatives.

2. Have you read the Trayvon threads on ATS? There was a huge amount of racism in those threads and ATS is mostly conservative. Go to a liberal forum, you won't see that. Every liberal I know doesn't like ANY of those black people you named.

3. Sarah Palin is not all women, and a lot of people disliked her, ones that have no political affiliations. She is hard to listen to with a painful accent. People were insulted that she was picked for vice president nomination because she didn't come off to be very intelligent.

4. Two different subjects, not even comparable. A potential human is not a living breathing already existing person.

Originally posted by Propulsion

Originally posted by Achey
I don't believe that the examples you have given should really reflect most peoples views, im sure plenty of people are pro life, anti death penalty, anti special treatment for homosexuals, pro islam law where applicable, anti wealth distribution, pro social programs.

I would like to hear the logic as why there is such a difference. If you’re pro-choice and think it ok to abort a child, why would you be pro-life and not execute a serial killer? I can’t comprehend that logic. So if there is a liberal who could kindly explain this, I would certainly like to hear it...

I'm not exactly "liberal" but I am pro-choice, and against the death penalty so I'll try to answer this one.

When it comes to abortion, there are many factors to take into account when discussing, or debating abortion. It isn't as cut-and-dry as most tend to think it is.

1. What age is the woman who wants an abortion? This may seem like an odd parameter to set, but it does have implications. Studies have shown that if a woman is over a certain age, the chances for birth defects, namely Down Syndrome skyrockets.
At age 25, 1 in 1,250
At age 30, 1 in 1,000
At age 35, 1 in 400
At age 40, 1 in 100
At 45, 1 in 30
At 49, a 1 in 10 (!!!)
Down Syndrome can be detected as early as 10 weeks into the pregnancy.
Now, you can argue the legitimacy of having an abortion if you find out the baby will have defects, but in my opinion, they should have the choice.
Now for the other side. If a girl is under the age of 13 or 14, it's a little more of a sticky situation. Honestly I'm not against a 13 year old having an abortion at this moment, because of the current state of foster programs. I believe they need work. I was in a foster home for a time when I was young, and I can tell you it wasn't pretty. If they fixed that I would be all for her carrying the baby to term, then putting it up for adoption.

2. What were the circumstances for how she became pregnant? I don't care what anyone says, you are not going to change my mind to say that a woman who was raped and becomes pregnant needs to carry the baby to term. Especially someone who becomes pregnant by incestual rape.

3. How far along in the pregnancy is she when she decides she wants an abortion? I think that if the baby can survive outside of the womb, then no abortion should be performed, except in cases where the mothers life is at risk. Ultimately, a fetus (whether you like the term or not) is a parasitic organism by definition. I know it sounds bad, but it's true no matter how you slice it. While the fetus is dependent on the mother, it's ultimately the mothers choice. Period.

Now the death penalty is a totally different matter, which is in no way similar to abortion, a convict on death row does not in any way fit the parameters set above for fetuses. Comparing the two is just as disingenuous as comparing pro-war and pro-life.
But I'll bite anyway. The reason I am not for the death penalty is three-fold.

1. Not to sound bad, but I'll put dollar signs on the person on death row. In the long run, it costs the state more to kill a person, then it does to lock them up for life. Google it.

2. I for one, am not for state sanctioned murder. I don't think the government should have the authority to decide if a person has the right to live or not. I'd think my conservative brothers and sisters would agree with me on that, but for some reason they don't.

3. Last but not least: Far too many people have been found innocent after the fact. Easy as that. Another thing I would hope my conservative brothers and sisters would agree with is that the government doesn't always do things right. And being FOR the death penalty is LITERALLY betting your life on the fact that judicial system will judge you fairly and impartially. And I for one would not take that bet.

Anyone ever heard of a guy named Orenthal James Simpson? O.J.?

Originally posted by seabag
This is in response to the thread Questions for our Conservative ATS Members which asked some legit questions and I think he/she got some legit answers; I hope to get the same. By the way, if you’re going to just tell us that we’re all fools for buying into the left/right paradigm then just drop a S&F and move on please.

I’m not talking about republicans and democrats here so you can save your comparisons for another thread. I’m posing these questions to people who identify as LIBERALS not run of the mill democrats (I’m a CONSERVATIVE not a run of the mill republican).

OK, if we (we = those of us who understand there are serious differences in the way left or right leaning people would like to govern the affairs of the US of A) better understood where each other are coming from we might actually accomplish something.

Let’s get started! These are just a few of the contradictions (hypocrisy if you will) I’ve gleaned from researching my brothers and sisters on the left.


1) Homosexuality and Muslims - Devote Muslims kill homosexuals for being homosexual (fact). Yet, liberals support both the Homosexual agenda in America as well as Muslim Sharia Law. What gives?

2) Racism – (Hot topic these days…I know…I will tread lightly) It seems liberals keep the term “racists” alive. Why are vocal black democrats given praise by the left (Sharpton, Jackson, Rangel, Shiela Jackson Lee, etc) while vocal black conservatives (Clarence Thomas, Alan West, Herman Cain, etc) called names by the left?

Also, why do liberals continue to promote social programs that enslave blacks at poverty level? Left policies have NEVER led to black prosperity (Chicago, Detroit, ALL of California, etc are good examples) yet they get the majority of the black vote. What does the left offer that should inspire black Americans and keep their vote? I think the tide is turning, by the way. This video is a good illustration of what I’ve said.

3) Pro Women yet Anti Conservative Women – Liberals say they’re for women’s rights yet they destroyed Sarah Palin and her family in 2008. Liberals love Hillary but what did they have to say about Condoleezza?? Have liberals ever denounced all of the chauvinist remarks about Bachman?

LAST BUT NOT LEAST…

4) Pro Abortion yet Anti-Death Penalty – Need I say more on this issue?

I’m really not looking for a fight and I truly want to understand what my fellow Americans of the liberal persuasion are thinking, particularly on these issues. I have other questions but this is good enough to get the ball rolling. I will keep my responses civil and on topic and I ask that you do the same.

What say you?

Devout Christians also kill homosexuals. Sometimes directly, sometimes with their words. I will admit to not knowing many Muslims. However, the ones I do know treat me as their granddaughter. Their my grandparents' neighbours.

I only scream racism when I actually see it. I get a lot of crap for being of Arab/Muslim descent. I get more crap, however, for being white. Do you know how annoying it is to explain to customers at the Chinese restaurant I work at that I am not, nor have I ever been, Asian? Ack!

I like women's rights. People need to stop saying, "I won't give you support for your [ ] birth control, [ ] child, [ ] abortion (getting to that), etc. because you're a sssslllluuuuutttttttt tttt t." (Emphasis on the "t", I guess.) Birth control won't make you a slut nor does having a lot of kids. Men can enjoy sex, so why can't women? I don't understand why an employer will support things like nicotine gum in their insurance policy but not birth control. The smoker actually hurt their body, the woman asking for bc did nothing but tried to be responsible. Some women take it because it's beneficial to their health. Also, planned parenthood doesn't preform abortions. I just thought I'd throw that out there.

I don't understand "anti conservative women." But that's just me because I have a problem viewing people differently than being people. I didn't slander any of those women. I actually liked Sarah Palin.

I'm pro abortion and anti death penalty. I believe a woman has a right to choose to give herself a chance to be free. In this world of hunger and poverty, I don't think we need another mouth to feed unless someone can support it. $500+ for an abortion is nothing compared to the price of raising a child and losing your chances at youth. But a woman getting excessive abortions needs to be given some form on contraceptive. or given access to affordable morning after pills. They don't perform abortions, only miracles for the woman not ready to be a mommy. It just forces a period, not an abortion.
I'm anti death penalty because I believe anyone who did something horrible enough to be put to death should be left to suffer for the remainder of their lives in

jail. Death penalty is the easy way out. And it costs us a lot of money.

As a reply to the original post:

I think there's different kinds of liberals, and you can't expect all of them to have the same opinion. The term liberalism doesn't have the same meaning now as it did 10-20 years ago. The internet is oftentime concidered very liberal, yet this doesn't refer to liberalism as much as it does to "anything goes".

I concider myself a liberal of the latter breed: every human has the right to do whatever he wants as long as it doesn't hurt other human beings againt their will, and I mean absolutely anything. I gues the very core of my beliefs would have to be: "Who am I to tell other people what they can't do other than not hurt other people". Yet if I were to live in America, I would probably concider myself a liberal.

That said, common sense would anwser most questions:

1) Devote muslims killing homosexuals = no go. I'm sure that even the most extremist muslims putting their ignorance aside (which is oftentimes the problem) couldn't disagree with the fact that no god would allow one of his creations to get slaughtered, regardless of this creation being flawed.

2) Politics... If the left side is calling black people names based on their etnicity they're racist, and vice-versa. I don't see how this has anything to do with the idea of liberalism. Racism isn't bound to a certain philosophy or ideology. If you're a racist, you're a racist. If you're not, you're not. I'm sure each side still has plenty of both. The rest is just politics which can get as complicated as the politicians want it to be. Racism is present on every side of the globe, I'm sure, even in America, it's not limited solely to democrats/liberals.

3) Again, politics. Right is right and wrong is wrong. I'm sure the liberal party in America isn't as liberal as drawn on paper, but that's no reason to invalidate liberalism. Corrupt politicians is nothing new under the sun. However a good voter votes for the ideology and not for the corrupt politicians representing it.

4) Science. When is something concidered alive? You can concider plants alive, would killing a plant be concidered murder? No, I think not for most people. When exactly does an organism get concidered alive? Surely, if you concider an embryo at the earliers stages alive, you must also concider plants alive, as neither have feelings, thoughts or ideas, yet are chemically active. Altough I would agree this is a touchy subject and I'll just leave it at that. If it were up to me, I'dd let the mother decide up untill the point the embryo is concidered scientifically to be "aware".

Was fun. ^^

[response to offtopic remark deleted]

reply to post by ollncasino


What do you not get about "Want Sharia law for Muslims'"
Let them have it.

Originally posted by seabag

Homosexuality and Muslims - Devote Muslims kill homosexuals for being homosexual (fact). Yet, liberals support both the Homosexual agenda in America as well as Muslim Sharia Law. What gives?

I am homosexual and do not support sharia law. I think it's insane.

Pro Women yet Anti Conservative Women – Liberals say they’re for women’s rights yet they destroyed Sarah Palin and her family in 2008.

Sarah Palin was not destroyed because she is a women but because she is mentally retarded.

Pro Abortion yet Anti-Death Penalty – Need I say more on this issue?

Pro death pentalty, yet anti abortion - need I say more?

reply to post by seabag

While I'm not "liberal" in the current sense of the word as used in the United States, I think I lean left on social issues, so I'll take a stab at this...

1) Homosexuality and Muslims - Devote Muslims kill homosexuals for being homosexual (fact). Yet, liberals support both the Homosexual agenda in America as well as Muslim Sharia Law. What gives?

Why do people insist on discussing Islam (and Christianity, for that matter) as if they were monolithic cultures where all of the adherents follow the same doctrine and share the exact same beliefs? The opening assertion in your question is as ridiculous as stating that devout Christians all believe that women who are raped should be forced to marry their rapist, as is consistent with Biblical law. Since your opening assumption is nonsensical, the question predicated on it is equally nonsensical.

2) Racism – (Hot topic these days…I know…I will tread lightly) It seems liberals keep the term “racists” alive. Why are vocal black democrats given praise by the left (Sharpton, Jackson, Rangel, Shiela Jackson Lee, etc) while vocal black conservatives (Clarence Thomas, Alan West, Herman Cain, etc) called names by the left?

Most of the liberals I know view Sharpton and Jackson as being detrimental to race relations in this country and believe that Rangel should have stepped down when the bipartisan Ethics Committee brought charges against him. What has Lee done that offended you? And I don't know anyone that's engaged in name-calling when it comes to Thomas and Cain. I do believe that West should have been court-martialled for the incident in Iraq, but I'm not sure if that counts as name calling. How are these view inconsistent with regards to race, exactly?

Also, why do liberals continue to promote social programs that enslave blacks at poverty level? Left policies have NEVER led to black prosperity (Chicago, Detroit, ALL of California, etc are good examples) yet they get the majority of the black vote. What does the left offer that should inspire black Americans and keep their vote? I think the tide is turning, by the way. This video is a good illustration of what I’ve said.

Neither have policies from the right. Policies based on race are, in general, a bad idea. Most of my friends, who are more liberal than I am, would agree.

3) Pro Women yet Anti Conservative Women – Liberals say they’re for women’s rights yet they destroyed Sarah Palin and her family in 2008. Liberals love Hillary but what did they have to say about Condoleezza?? Have liberals ever denounced all of the chauvinist remarks about Bachman?

My position on Palin and Bachmann have nothing to do with their gender. It has to do with things like Palin continuing to espouse abstinence-only education when it's obvious she couldn't make it work in her own house and the fact that I view Bachmann's Dominionist ethos as being in direct opposition to the principles upon which this country was founded. Does the fact that I believe people should be treated equally, regardless of gender, mean that I have to support every woman, regardless of whether I concur with her political beliefs?

4) Pro Abortion yet Anti-Death Penalty – Need I say more on this issue?

Given that "conservatives" are anti-abortion/pro-death penalty, yes, you do.

You need to either frame your questions a little more thoughtfully and carefully or just admit that you felt like blasting liberals because of the thread you linked at the beginning of your opening post.

Originally posted by Garfee

Originally posted by LErickson

Homosexuality and Muslims - Devote Muslims kill homosexuals for being homosexual (fact). Yet, liberals support both the Homosexual agenda in America as well as Muslim Sharia Law. What gives?

I am homosexual and do not support sharia law. I think it's insane.

Pro Women yet Anti Conservative Women – Liberals say they’re for women’s rights yet they destroyed Sarah Palin and her family in 2008.

Sarah Palin was not destroyed because she is a women but because she is mentally retarded.

Pro Abortion yet Anti-Death Penalty – Need I say more on this issue?

Pro death pentalty, yet anti abortion - need I say more?

Yeah not one of those is something I wrote.
You replied to me and then put someone else's post in there.

reply to post by LErickson


I copied the wrong username.

Edit: Thank you for pointing out my mistake. I replied to the OP - it's my post.

reply to post by Propulsion


I posted my answers to the OP on the second page, before I saw his post responding to another poster, at that point, I figured I would keep my opinions to myself, as I believe the OP is doing nothing but political trolling, he has no desire to discus anything, just wants to continue to spout bigoted ignorance.

You will not get "logical" and/or truthful responses from a liberal for one (or both reasons): a liberal is either an emotional based "thinker" or corrupt. The emotional reponsed thinker is self-explanatory. For the corrupt "liberal", it would be like asking Stalin, Lenin, Mao, etc the following: "How do you reconcile killing/murdering millions with Communism's tenent of bettering society?"

I'm not a liberal and am not going to answer your questions directly...sorry. But I will give you a different opinion about the difference between liberals and conservatives.

First...let me give my definition of "Utopian-ready people" for the purpose of my final opinion. To be Utopian-ready, IMO, you have to be willing to "accept" other people regardless of who they are and what they do. Race, religion, sexual preference, etc. And the definition of "accept" has to be a willingness not to care about, have an opinion about, etc. That would also include drug users, addicts, etc. Also...this is going to sound funny...everything should be much like Star Trek. You have a job doing what you like, you don't have to worry about food or money, etc.

So here we go!

Liberals want a Utopian society and believe the way to get there is to simply force rules and actions that would be part of a Utopian society...and...hope/believe the people's views will then follow and/or change to match.

Conservatives would like a Utopian society in that everyone "should" be able to get along. However they realize that people are different and that these differences will always (or at least for now) keep "Utopian" at arms reach. But conservatives will work toward creating Utopian-ready people in hopes that it can one day lead to a Utopian society.

The main difference here is do you force people to fit the mold you desire, or do you educate people hoping that one day they fit the mold you believe is best.

IMHO

reply to post by seabag


1. The homosexual agenda is wanting to marry and just, in general, not have to keep quiet about their existence in the public arena. As for being pro-Sharia Law, where in God's name did that come from? I mean, I don't hate Muslims just because they're Muslim and I'm not going to be suspicious of them if they prove themselves to be reasonably sane. I guess my lack of suspicion is what you mean?
2. I live in the rural South, so there's racists everywhere on both sides of the aisle. It may be liberals keeping the term alive, but it's conservatives keeping the behavior and the concept alive. As for black people and welfare, most of the people that are on welfare are white.
3. I dislike conservative women because conservative women tend to be for things like torturing people who haven't been given a proper trial and making rape victims carry their rapists' child.
4. Pro abortion yet anti-death penalty. This is simple. Until the fetus is viable, it is a parasite on the mother. And until it has a nervous system and other things, it's just a bunch of cells. The death penalty I'm generally against because I don't believe that we should be executing people when we can't be absolutely sure, especially with all the convictions done without DNA evidence. There are dozens of people who have been acquitted through DNA evidence in new trials, and it's too big a gamble that I'm executing an innocent man.

reply to post by seabag
Very good, what you have done here is out some of the better failing agenda's of the liberals and in getting them to "maybe" answer you showen there true hate and ignorance. I'm sure that was not your egenda but worked for me.

Please, ask more questions of the libs I'm sure you are inlightening some of them as to how there agendas are proof of mental instability and the true definition of an "oxymoron", you can almost smell them burning and cubical shills are scrambling for more failed talking points,the first retort proved that.

Originally posted by Propulsion
I would like to see public executions come back into the picture. If these people are going to be put to death, why not make it public? I guarantee most people who would witness such an event would think twice before they decided to commit a serious crime. I call it “preventive medicine”? With the crime rate skyrocketing, and our prison systems over populated, don't you think this would be a good alternative?

I know this subject came up some years back, but most liberals saw this as unjust and inhuman…

www.statista.com...

"Skyrocketing" Hmm?

reply to post by seabag

1) Homosexuality and Muslims - Devote Muslims kill homosexuals for being homosexual (fact). Yet, liberals support both the Homosexual agenda in America as well as Muslim Sharia Law. What gives?

Not even all Muslims want Sharia Law, many Muslims came to America and other western nations to escape Sharia Law, I personally do not support Sharia Law and I don't think many liberals do either. As a liberal I support anyone practicing their religion freely and without prejudice.

As a liberal I support anyone's right to be who they are and to marry/love/have sex with any other consenting adult.

2) Racism – (Hot topic these days…I know…I will tread lightly) It seems liberals keep the term “racists” alive. Why are vocal black democrats given praise by the left (Sharpton, Jackson, Rangel, Shiela Jackson Lee, etc) while vocal black conservatives (Clarence Thomas, Alan West, Herman Cain, etc) called names by the left?

Yesterday a thread about another tragedy occurred in Tulsa showed up on ATS, except it wasn't really about the tragedy it was about the "media fanning the flames of brewing race war". I know personally that if I were a person that is black and living in that community, I would wonder if some crazy white dude was out hunting black people.

I see those on the right claiming the race card is being played, in fact it seems as if anytime a liberal mentions a person who isn't white in a defensive way, we get accused of playing the race card (yes, SOME on the left do this, I'd argue that there's more cases of those on the right being actual racists). I'm tired of that phrase, stop playing the race card card. Racism exists, white people are the majority in this country so it is not surprising that most institutionalized racism is committed by white people. It's not surprising to me when an oppressed group gets upset and starts calling BS for what it is. We're seeing it now with class wars. Pretending a problem doesn't exist doesn't make it go away. Acknowledging it and working through it does. We've come a long way but not nearly far enough.

Just as a for instance, black people and mexicans are more prone to be arrested for no reason, wrongfully convicted and more harshly sentenced than white people. It could be argued that it is a majority/minority issue and not race but that becomes difficult when some people throw around that blacks are more violent than whites and mexicans steal more than whites.

Race gets factored in by those attempting to cling to power, throw stereo types against a whole group so that it becomes easy to foster hate, thing is that it's been happening for so long sheeple actually believe the stereo-types.

Also, why do liberals continue to promote social programs that enslave blacks at poverty level? Left policies have NEVER led to black prosperity (Chicago, Detroit, ALL of California, etc are good examples) yet they get the majority of the black vote. What does the left offer that should inspire black Americans and keep their vote? I think the tide is turning, by the way. This video is a good illustration of what I’ve said.

I don't believe welfare is racial thing and I don't believe that the Right in power actually want to do away with it, I believe the elected right and media right just act it, it has been a powerful and successful divisive tool. Why do I believe this? Because it is simply another way to filter tax dollars up.

3) Pro Women yet Anti Conservative Women – Liberals say they’re for women’s rights yet they destroyed Sarah Palin and her family in 2008. Liberals love Hillary but what did they have to say about Condoleezza?? Have liberals ever denounced all of the chauvinist remarks about Bachman?

I'm not anti-conservative women, I'm anti idiot. Palin and Bachman are idiots, in my opinion. Hillary is evil in my opinion, I used to love her, idolize her but I feel like now I see her for what she is and what she is applicable across the board, a sell out.

4) Pro Abortion yet Anti-Death Penalty – Need I say more on this issue?

Maybe another time, I think I drained myself on the race issue.