The Bible and the war against God's true and only work.

reply to post by Murgatroid


You did seem to kind of cut off at the end. I think they were expecting you to be sarcastic or to turn away from your faith when you realized that there wer variations of the Bible, because there are.

The Catholic Bible includes parts of the apocrypha, books that are not included in the accepted Bible canon. I'm honestly not sure what the current "official" Catholic translation is, assuming there is one. Personally, I'm partial to the NRSV and NASB for study and the new NIV for more casual reading. Different translations depend on the sources used (earliest texts available for translation vs the texts found to be most numerous, etc) and the interpretive method. were the translators going for a word-for-word translation or an idea-for-idea translation? This makes a significant difference, though in the end even the most radically different ancient biblical texts vary in less than 1% of the wording. The biggest differences come from our translations of the text. Honest translations are going to say virtually the same thing.

Any religion worth its salt is going to explain how we got here, what our purpose is, and where we are going.

In a non-biased, objective, logical, scientific, and common sense based way?
Or will "it's magic" work for you?

That's not an attack, but a simple question. When the supernatural is used as an explanation it leaves out reason. It dismisses all other possibility. It purposely sidesteps logic.
When all other possible explanations are actively ignored, the argument is lost.
There's no 'war' against Christianity (as we know any "war against..." anything always seems to just cost money and never achieve its purpose). Christianity is struggling in the modern world of information.
When I turn on my TV I don't think that there are little people in there magically acting out the dramas. I understand the technology that makes it work.
If I showed a television to bronze age people, they'd be trying to kill the little 'demons' inside the box. We've moved on.

We live in a different world. Most of us can read for ourselves now (generally speaking). When we do read the Bible, there are more questions than answers. Many inconsistencies. Many contradictions. Many untruths.
When we use common sense, logic, science etc. as our benchmark, the Bible is found wanting.
That's why it's being discarded. It simply does not stand up to modern rational thinking.

Believe in God. Follow your heart. If it's the right thing for you, I truly wish you well.
If there is absolutely no part of the bible that gives you any pause, you are either not reading it properly, or you are refusing to see the errors, in which case I wish you luck. Believe in your god, but row away from the rocks.

Originally posted by Mykahel
The Catholic Bible includes parts of the apocrypha, books that are not included in the accepted Bible canon.

I came across this a few days ago which sums it up for me pretty well:

"The Roman Catholic church has had only one aim from its earliest, pagan and political origins: To destroy the true Christians, and to destroy their Bible. That is why they substituted the corrupt Alexandrian perversions of scripture, instead of using the preserved, prophetic and apostolic Words of God as found in Antioch of Syria, where "the disciples were first called Christians" (Acts 11:26). That is why they also added the Alexandrian writings we now call "Apocrypha" to their perverted bibles. That is why they used their Jesuits to infiltrate the Protestant Seminaries, Colleges and Bible Schools. Their Jesuits became the "teachers" and planted seeds of doubt in the Christians' minds. These doubt-ridden Christians then taught at other colleges and schools. All the while they planted that same seed of doubt of God's word in their students".
Source

Anonymous quote:

"There are 28 books throughout human history that people claim to be from God. How do we know which one is from God? Only the Christian Holy Bible contains prophecy (foretelling of the future) that has NEVER missed. God tells us, if what the prophet says doesn't come true, he did not speak it."

Anyone care to answer my questions? How hard is it to give Jesus Christ your heart and soul? I mean I'd rather give them to Jesus and then when i die go to heaven and not have any pain nor sorrow than to deny Jesus and be cast into hell with Satan and be in pain and be tortured forever and ever. I ask you really how much effort would you have to put into having faith and believing in Jesus? Its only feelings and thoughts. But those feelings have to be true and genuine. And i think its refreshing to read the bible. It gives me great piece of mind. I've opened my to other beliefs and religions but never took any of them in. They just don't feel right. Does that mean i condemn anyone who has a different religion or beliefs? Absolutely not! All I'm doing here is trying to open minds to my religion and beliefs. I respect others decisions regarding what they believe so i expect the same. I don't understand why because i believe in the God and the bible I'm scorned. That doesn't seem right.

Originally posted by Vsc1981
...Now these people that i mentioned seem to think that there is these other books that would have God contradicting Himself. Saying things like Jews aren't God's chosen people and He didn't give the land of Israel to the Jews. So i guess I'm just looking for some support on these issues.

there is no doubt that whomever wrote the bible, your god or otherwise, did contradict themselves. the gods in the new testament and old testament alone are impossible to reconcile.

here's a list of 461 different contradictions in the bible.
skeptics annotated bible - contradictions

or, if you are into reading verbose books, you could try asimov's guide to the bible.

see if you can try to explain away just one of them, much less all of them.

Click here for more information.

Originally posted by MarlboroRedCowgirl
reply to post by SplitInfinity

 

I understand where your coming from. I also understand that the act is greater than the name. Moses may have crossed the Reed Sea or the Red Sea. But somehow, he single handedly freed an entire race of people from hundreds of years of slavery, as well as delivered the 10 commandment; which are the foundation of all modern legislation. Thats the bigger picture.

But did he? There were other civilization around back then and when one looks at the Ten Commandments...I do not see anything that is stated that Man did not already know was Good or Bad. I don't see why it would have taken a GOD to figure out or even have to state something that people already knew about.

People have been around for a LONG time. Our Direct ancestors...Cro Magnon...which were almost identical to Homosapiens....and Cro Magnon had a slightly larger Brain that Homosapiens....and we were them and they turned into us...but if you put a Cro Magnon in a lineup with several Homosapiens...you would not be able to tell the difference. Thing is...Cro Magnon were around more than 40 to 60 Thousand years ago and their development continued to evolve until they became us. they had reasoning abilitie that rivaled us and on the whole they were just slightly taller on average than we are. They Buried their dead or creamated them...and had an advanced thought process very similar to ours just without the level of technology.

I would not put it past our ancestors to have written a similar setof rules such as the Ten Commandments.
Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity


Ok, I'll bite for just a moment even though this is way off topic.

I don't believe in time as a dimension. Time is simply a term we use to explain one constant action in relation to another constant action (earth's rotation as compared to is revolution around the sun). We use these constants to determine the details of non-constants, such as a vehicle traveling from one point to another.

There is no future and there is no past, there is only now. Time isn't a line, it's a dot, a dot with no width, length or height. I posted a thread about my thoughts on this a long time ago.

In an attempt to make this relate to the OP a little, it does have to do with God. If there is no past or future but only present, it makes God's personal name Ayeh Asher Ayeh (I AM that I AM) that much more interesting. When God refers to Himself he uses the personal form of the verb "to be" witch has Him calling Himself "I AM". His personal name for which he was to be called by was another variation of the verb, which most people know as the tetragrammaton (YHWH or Yahweh) which means "He is."

God's name declares that He simply is, regardless of our perception of "time." On a related note, you already know what it is like to exist for eternity. Others may recall a time when you did not exist, but do you? From my own experience, it would appear that I have always existed.

Now that I'm done with that side-quest, it's time for bed. Night all.

Originally posted by Vsc1981
I don't understand why because i believe in the God and the bible I'm scorned. That doesn't seem right.

Originally posted by Murgatroid
Has anyone else asked themselves WHY the OP is being so viciously attacked?

Kennedy, Lincoln, and the Lord Jesus were silenced and slaughtered by the synagogue of satan only because they spoke the TRUTH. The money changers always HATE those who speak the TRUTH.

The OP is trying to warn others and save your freekin' LIFE just like JFK, Jesus and countless others before them have done. "But they cried, saying, crucify him, crucify him." Many of you here would probably crucify the OP if it were possible. Are you so BLIND that you would ATTACK someone trying to RESCUE you from danger?

It's TIME TO “WAKE-UP!” and Understand that WE have A L L been Massively LIED TO and DECEIVED!!

Originally posted by Vsc1981
Anyone care to answer my questions? How hard is it to give Jesus Christ your heart and soul? I mean I'd rather give them to Jesus and then when i die go to heaven and not have any pain nor sorrow than to deny Jesus and be cast into hell with Satan and be in pain and be tortured forever and ever. I ask you really how much effort would you have to put into having faith and believing in Jesus? Its only feelings and thoughts. But those feelings have to be true and genuine. And i think its refreshing to read the bible. It gives me great piece of mind. I've opened my to other beliefs and religions but never took any of them in. They just don't feel right. Does that mean i condemn anyone who has a different religion or beliefs? Absolutely not! All I'm doing here is trying to open minds to my religion and beliefs. I respect others decisions regarding what they believe so i expect the same. I don't understand why because i believe in the God and the bible I'm scorned. That doesn't seem right.

No scorn, but there's a number of people who would like to see some kind of proof for the whole Heaven/Hell issue. None has been provided to date.
Can you prove that either exist? Have you anything other than a book?

As for how much effort it takes; none at all. From my research, it seems that all you have to do is swallow the whole story hook, line, and sinker, and make a superhuman effort to dismiss any logic, reason, and common sense. If your god gave me free will, I'm sure he/she/it completely understands my cynicism.
Proof denies faith. I'm denied proof. I shall deny faith.

Good luck.

No need to read the comments, SSDD. But here are some facts to take home with you, kids. The triune God (three persons in spirit form, Father, Son, Holy Spirit) are not mythical beings. They are far more real and alive than anything in this physical realm which most people believe is all there is to see. This gentlemen seems to have put his foot in his mouth a bit and also made the mistake of throwing his pearls before swine, but many, many people, have met and experienced the true, living God in one or more of those distinct but seamless forms, including myself. For those who know these things and testify to them, the Jesus spoken of in the Bible is indeed God, a loving person, the only able judge, and the true creator of all things. For those swine out there who can't swallow that, I suggest you pull your brain out of arguments like the Scopes trial, the age of planet Earth, and all sorts of nonsense that people believe and say, including Christians, and simply start with the facts and adjust your conclusions accordingly. I can't say that my interpretation of Genesis is correct, and so I don't make it a point to try and convince people that the Earth is 10,000 years old (or is it 6,000); in fact, I'm pretty sure that the creation of Biblical interest was a makeover. But put these foolish arguments aside and stick with the most relevant and important facts. If you believe on Christ as your savior, rock bottom, and cast your cares on Him, He will reveal Himself to you, and you also qualify for eternal life, that is if you don't mess it up too much.

Sometimes, after I reap a whole lot insults about my intelligence (among other things), I tell people that I'm far from stupid, I have eight years university study in math and science, BA, MS, a 4.00 gpa in my major (3.84 overall due to department politics), encompassing upper division physiology, two chemistry minors, advanced mathematics including an A in graduate inferential stats, three years graduate research using thousands of ANOVA and multiple regression analyses for analyzing field data. Invariably, I'm called a liar, of course, but my transcript backs me up. You see, to earn the right to speak on this level, you have to have a graduate degree with research experience in science at a magna cum-laude level of performance; otherwise, you haven't the right to open your mouth, not that lack of achievement will stop fools from flapping their jaws. Having the right doesn't make you right, however, Stephen Hawking being a pitiful example of that. If you really earned your way, like I did, you'll realize, as did most of the eminent scientists and mathematicians responsible for building the foundations of real science, that God is very, vey real, and the Bible accurately represents His role and intent, past, present and future as long as you don't try to prove how old the Earth is or how He went about creating everything about you that you see. Real science, notwithstanding the joke called mainstream media, is about appreciating the natural things that God made, not about proving that He didn't.

reply to post by SplitInfinity


Cro-magnon, homo-habilis, neanderthal, etc. are not mentioned in the bible.
I wonder why?

Originally posted by Badgered1 Can you prove that either exist?

Arun Patel: For those who question “does God exist?”, can you first answer this question: If God does exist, would I want to know God? Hence, if you don’t open your mind completely to the task, then you already drawn a conclusion.

Dan Wilt: "The Great Debate over the existence of God will never be resolved by scientific scrutiny, nor by simple experiential story. While science offers astounding gifts that must never be denied, if God is who we suggest God might be, the Life that made supernovas cry at birth will not be deduced and dissected by the limitations of human perception."

Originally posted by Badgered1
reply to post by SplitInfinity

 

Cro-magnon, homo-habilis, neanderthal, etc. are not mentioned in the bible.
I wonder why?

Exactly.

Those who wrote the bible didn't know of such things so did not write them down.

Unless god just forgot to mention.

Too many ignorant posts to respond to...

I've been reading this fear mongering garbage, and that is the thing current religeons wish to convey.

God is ALL things, and he is always shaping reality and the things that you see.

The angels are demons are of his control, but the nefilium are the power you know.

Even they are decieved by the demons, and they are the aliens that create this decievin'

The word of God is eternal and good, but the things in the bible were not for the soul.

They're corrupted by power from a a time and a place, when people were ALL slaves to the things that they say.

He wants us empowered and living in love, and then the Nefilium are destroyed from above...

**I AM OPEN TO YOUR QUESTIONS, BUT I MAKE NO STATEMENTS THAT ARE BEYOND MY UNDERSTANDING**

My faith is unshakable, and I will never lie to you...

reply to post by TheGadfly


Seriously? Yes, there are some contradictions but every single one that I have found can be explained by an error on the part of the one who copied the manuscripts or the reader's supernatural ability to take things out of context and not recognize proper literary devices and styles when they arise. For instance, I can answer the one about the number of sons Abraham had with no problem. Isaac was his only legitimate son, the one whom God had promised the blessings through even though the text is very clear that Abraham also had another son, an older son named Ishmael because Abraham at first though he had to have a son by somebody other than his wife Rachel. The person who compiled the list is completely blind to any theological points that the bible makes and is completely incapable of seeing the big picture. I'd also wager that many of the "contradictions" are based out of the inadequate and corrupted KJV.

reply to post by Garfee


Really? So those religious nut-job Jews sure must be close-minded considering the 100+ Nobel Prizes they have earned. Besides, we all must be close-minded to a degree, unless you believe in flying purple unicorns whose farts smell like daisies. If you've ruled out the possibility of their existence, you've closed your mind off to their possible existence. So we'll try again... Care to contribute to the conversation?

reply to post by Badgered1


Hey, I wasn't at all claiming that religion doesn't require faith in something scientifically unprovable, or "magic" as you labeled it. I'm currently working on my masters in New testament studies and while there are questions and perceived inconsistencies, there are often answers if we are just willing to look for them. Historical and critical studies of the Bible have stood up for a long time. Science doesn't have all the answers either, and many of its theories are often with MAJOR holes that simply go unanswered. Critical studies can do a lot for a persons knowledge, but when it comes to God (or any ideas concerning the origin of humanity and the cosmos) it ultimately boils down to faith in one thing or another. The Bible is clear that we have to have faith, you can't accept God on pure logic. But pure logic doesn't answer all our questions adequately either.

But hey, thanks for being respectful with the post and question.
And now I'm actually going to bed. Good night.

Just watched world events. Its happening all around here in America too. The war on God. Take His name off our they say. Take His commandments out of sight they demand. Don't let our children speak His name in our schools they demand. We don't want His name in our pledge of allegiance. Our founding fathers didn't found our county on His word and teachings thats hearsay they proclaim. How much more blind and denying can you be? Muslims already want this country destroyed. Along with Israel. Jerusalem is located in Israel is it not? How many times is Jerusalem mentioned in the bible? Why is then Muslims want rid of the Jews out of Israel? Cause Jerusalem is located there and its holy and they want it for themselves for their religion and agenda. Come on people quit kidding yourselves. And stop with the pagan stories nonsense. Stop reading bits and pieces of the bible and interpreting it to twist it into something it is not. Nobody can interpret the bible completely. Only God truly knows.

Just watched world events. Its happening all around here in America too. The war on God. Take His name off our they say. Take His commandments out of sight they demand. Don't let our children speak His name in our schools they demand. We don't want His name in our pledge of allegiance. Our founding fathers didn't found our county on His word and teachings thats hearsay they proclaim. How much more blind and denying can you be? Muslims already want this country destroyed. Along with Israel. Jerusalem is located in Israel is it not? How many times is Jerusalem mentioned in the bible? Why is then Muslims want rid of the Jews out of Israel? Cause Jerusalem is located there and its holy and they want it for themselves for their religion and agenda. Come on people quit kidding yourselves. And stop with the pagan stories nonsense. Stop reading bits and pieces of the bible and interpreting it to twist it into something it is not. Nobody can interpret the bible completely. Only God truly knows.

Originally posted by cusanus
No need to read the comments, SSDD. But here are some facts to take home with you, kids. The triune God (three persons in spirit form, Father, Son, Holy Spirit) are not mythical beings. They are far more real and alive than anything in this physical realm which most people believe is all there is to see. This gentlemen seems to have put his foot in his mouth a bit and also made the mistake of throwing his pearls before swine, but many, many people, have met and experienced the true, living God in one or more of those distinct but seamless forms, including myself. For those who know these things and testify to them, the Jesus spoken of in the Bible is indeed God, a loving person, the only able judge, and the true creator of all things. For those swine out there who can't swallow that, I suggest you pull your brain out of arguments like the Scopes trial, the age of planet Earth, and all sorts of nonsense that people believe and say, including Christians, and simply start with the facts and adjust your conclusions accordingly. I can't say that my interpretation of Genesis is correct, and so I don't make it a point to try and convince people that the Earth is 10,000 years old (or is it 6,000); in fact, I'm pretty sure that the creation of Biblical interest was a makeover. But put these foolish arguments aside and stick with the most relevant and important facts. If you believe on Christ as your savior, rock bottom, and cast your cares on Him, He will reveal Himself to you, and you also qualify for eternal life, that is if you don't mess it up too much.

Sometimes, after I reap a whole lot insults about my intelligence (among other things), I tell people that I'm far from stupid, I have eight years university study in math and science, BA, MS, a 4.00 gpa in my major (3.84 overall due to department politics), encompassing upper division physiology, two chemistry minors, advanced mathematics including an A in graduate inferential stats, three years graduate research using thousands of ANOVA and multiple regression analyses for analyzing field data. Invariably, I'm called a liar, of course, but my transcript backs me up. You see, to earn the right to speak on this level, you have to have a graduate degree with research experience in science at a magna cum-laude level of performance; otherwise, you haven't the right to open your mouth, not that lack of achievement will stop fools from flapping their jaws. Having the right doesn't make you right, however, Stephen Hawking being a pitiful example of that. If you really earned your way, like I did, you'll realize, as did most of the eminent scientists and mathematicians responsible for building the foundations of real science, that God is very, vey real, and the Bible accurately represents His role and intent, past, present and future as long as you don't try to prove how old the Earth is or how He went about creating everything about you that you see. Real science, notwithstanding the joke called mainstream media, is about appreciating the natural things that God made, not about proving that He didn't.

Wow, you're very clever. I'm not so clever. Can I ask you some Biblical questions?

Why do insects have four legs?
Why do bats have feathers?
Did Noah spend a lot of time cultivating just the right eucalyptus trees to feed the intrepid Koala for the voyage (they would have been hungry after walking and swimming all the way from Australia)?
How did the termites fare on the ark with all the anteaters, aardvarks, and kiwi?

Would you join a club that won't show you around the facilities first? Could you please show me a proper depiction of heaven and hell? One that's been scientifically proven, of course.

Since the biblical nativity seems to coincidentally reflect stories from thousands of years prior (Mithras, Apollo, Osiris et al), and the winter solstice "birth" of the sun to the constellation of virgo (the 'house of bread" = Bethlehem), under the morning star, followed by the belt of orion (the three wise men) would have occurred for thousands, if not millions of years prior to the biblical nativity, were these events foretelling of what was to come?
Same story, ages old, and what are the chances Jesus would be born exactly the same way? You have the math and science degree, not me. Could you please tell me the probability here?

Please don't come into this spouting about how massively more intelligent you are than those of us who refuse to believe in magic and mythology. That's just arrogance and ignorance.
We are at least trying to show that we are critical thinkers.
Feeling touched by the presence of the lord, or whatever, doesn't make you in any way, shape, or form more qualified to speak on the subject. You're a scientist that accepts absolutely no empirical data other than a feeling. I'm a nobody who accepts nothing without at least some proof.

reply to post by Mykahel


Yes. Just because you're good at math doesn't mean you aren't allowed to believe in fairy tales as well.

Edit: There is as much chance that the christian god exists as flying purple unicorns whose farts smell like daisies.