The Bible and the war against God's true and only work.

Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by Onboard2

 

Hi, Onboard2.

That's interesting, Autowrench, but I didn't think even Jewish scholars could determine how to pronounce the four-letter name of god-YHWH.

Actually, in the Quabbala, the anagram is not pronounced, it is Vibrated. Vibrated at a certain pitch, and tone.

I believe it's Thomas that states they are not the highest god or the Pre-Existant One.

Your exerience is very interesting and the bible does tell us to worship nothing outside of ourselves. Maybe that's why Jesus was in your vision and not represented as a god, but as far as levels, the christ consciousness IS a very high level. He did state "Haven't ye read the scriptures, ye are gods".

I have had the pleasure of reading the Gospel of Thomas, Thomas, much like Christ, was a Gnostic, I believe. Humanity is the true God, all of us together. We are all Spirits of the Highest Order, and all together we are a Force to be reckoned with. Christ tried to tell them this, in fact, tried to tell them a lot of things, but did they listen? No, they made up stories, and made him into their only god, meaning it is Jesus the man, or no God at all, and I just cannot accept that. Just like I cannot accept that one has to be a Christian to know anything, be able to read the Bible, have a personal relationship with the Divine Presence. I also cannot accept that God, or Goddess, would ever author a book. Books can change, and often do, and anyone who says the Bible is unchanged since it's earliest texts are just uninformed.

I absolutely agree with you. The first part of the bible seems to be very harsh and goes strictly by the LAW. Moses was raised for the part of Lawgiver, although the ten commandments are a good set of guidelines to live by. So what changed? Is it a cycle? Why did mankind have to wait for a certain time to bring in the Messianic age? It seems that man lives a life of birth, inner death(ego)rebirth and resurrection and death again. I actually believe that the path that the man Jesus walked is ultimately a path that we will all walk. Of course not exactly the same way in this day and age. I'd have to say I was actually shown this and this is why I am fascinated with the pyramid of Giza. It's man that becomes the christ through attainment of that consciousness.

Something else I'm curious about. What do you think the serpent was in the garden of Eden? The name was actually spelled 'Nahash' and meant wisdom.

Originally posted by DarthOej

Originally posted by SOILDERSUNITEDFORCHRIST


i chose to surround myself in a bubble because i am aware that God chooses man- man does not choose God.
having understood that i dont waste my time studying some thing twice that i have already debunked. most of you think because i follow the bible that i have not opened my mind to different possibilities.. i did not spend my life in a church as most of you think every christian has.. as a matter of fact i struggle today my self to follow the divine teachings but i keep pushing. --i have probably read more book than all of you here(not counting your harry poter). --if you are interested in what others have to say . why not sit and listen while they discus iv gave the wold a chance to show me something that could fit all the mysteries of the universe an it did.-

would you argue with some one who said the earth was flat?

You said that you don't go to those threads because you don't believe in that stuff, implying that you don't even acknowledge other points of view. That is why I said you were close minded.

I don't hold all of these stereotypes about Christians, because I know most of them are decent, everyday people. Members of my family are devout followers, and I was always taught that what one chooses to believe is their own business. When it comes to matters of faith and the soul, it's between you and God. I believe that we are part of something much bigger than ourselves. I don't think the amazing reality of our existence is a coincidence. However, I can not say who, why, and for what purpose.

I think it is awesome that you found the answers that you are looking for. I think the Bible is full of good things to live by such as love, kindness, charity, and all that. I just don't accept it as the literal word of God. I don't see how anyone can.

well thanks for your understanding. my life has led me to this path. i was and still am a very stubborn person, as you can see in my writing.- another thing is us Christians should know our limits too and know how to speak to people without imposing theology or religion on anybody. i have a belief,and it has alot to do with my life experience..having been witness to murders, and many horrible things in life. being only 16 in prison,seeing as how my father and uncle had changed their lives while in prison, i gave it a try and did the unthinkable - i challenged God to "show me a sign" and he did -so now i don't have any excuse for my wicked ways. sometimes(in my sinful nature) i feel i shouldn't have asked him that. but i have came to a conclusion and that is this:

even if God does not "exist"(theoretically speaking)- the teachings i have learned have still made me a better person than i was before i found Christ. i no longer do alot of evil things i used to do. im not saying im perfect but i have definitely changed.

talk about a win win situation

Originally posted by Vsc1981
I'm new to ATS and so far I've enjoyed it. The motto for ATS is deny ignorance and I recently came across some ignorance from some people on ATS. You see the bible is God's work. We all know that. Its what He had people of His choosing to write so it could be preached and taught to the whole world so that His most loved creation could learn of Him and worship Him. So they could know of His commandments and follow them. And also to prepare for the second coming of Jesus. To warn of impending disasters to befall man and destroy His creation earth. He wants us to love and obey Him, and to fear Him. Not to worship false gods or prophets. To believe in only Him and only His word. Now these people that i mentioned seem to think that there is these other books that would have God contradicting Himself. Saying things like Jews aren't God's chosen people and He didn't give the land of Israel to the Jews. So i guess I'm just looking for some support on these issues.

I respect your right to belief / faith / religion / worship. I wont be harsh, so, let me ask you a few questions.


Can you tell me who wrote the Bible? Can you name all of the authors who wrote the Bible? By "Author" I mean the person who put pen to paper.

Also, can you name me the editors of the Bible? This includes any and all people who where not "Authors", but "edited" the books ?

Also, who got to decide which books got in, and which didn't?

I am interested on what you think on this matters.

Nice to meet ya

reply to post by Vsc1981


With all due respect, I have been taken by Aliens from a bridge in Charleston, West Virginia and put on another bridge about 1 or 2 miles away. I was found walking around in shock. This incident has forever changed my opinion on religion. I wonder if Aliens are the Locust that the Bible talks about. When you have time, look at SETI Discovery of Fleet of UFO'S heading towards Earth on youtube.

Originally posted by Azadok

I don't understand why people have such a hard time understanding this part of the bible . First and foremost remeber Satan is always trying to destroy Gods plans and this is the main theme so always think Satan what would he do to screw God over in this story as you read the bible . Ok this is easy

I don't think angels are stupid creatures. Lucifer surely knows he could not destroy gods plans. His thing seems to be mostly showing God that Free Will is a mistake and humans are ultimately useless and unloving creatures.
Remove revelations from the picture, as I simply do not accept revelations as valid, even from christian standards (sure, lets listen to the visionarys and psychics) and what can we figure out from lucifer. Lucifer, one could argue, is actually trying to give God some tough love in his demonstrations and challenges.

Satan we know even less about than Lucifer (no, they aren't one in the same, only that he is under lucifer)

Point is, the argument is not so black/white.


Also, you got the days wrong.
Its clear from genesis that a day is one cycle of night and day, same as our linear time now.
You mistake the Peter reference in summerizing psalms and remove the context.

But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance

Basically, this states that God does not have a timeline for your salvation, he will wait for as long as it takes, be it a minute, or a thousand thousand years...
This does not say Gods days is a millennium..that is nonsense.
Might as well just say a day to god is a watch...makes just as much sense (and quoting from the same psalm peter wrote.

Finally, Jesus did not say this, nor did moses...it was peter
and I am of the opinion that Peter and Paul both did tons to...add on poetry to the bible when they ran out of material. They were witnesses to christ, the rest of the stuff they said (where we get most of the goofiness of todays christianity) was just some dudes talking what they thought...but keep in mind that Jesus was forever slapping them upside their head and calling them morons...figuratively speaking of course.

Originally posted by Vsc1981
If all one has to do is believe in Jesus Christ and have faith in Him and know that He died for our sins they will go to heaven when they are called upon what then is hard or wrong about that? People already believe in living their lives the way they want anyway. What would be so hard about believing in someone who died for them?

Problem is twofold coming from a spiritualist standpoint
and singlefold coming from an atheist standpoint

The atheist standpoint is simple to explain. I wouldn't believe in that in the same way I won't believe in a unicorn runs on the clouds at night to decide if the next day will be rain...aka, its believing in something without proof, or even evidence.

but the spiritual aspect is more pointed actually.
To accept that as a reality or belief, you must partake in two things
1) you must acccept the sins of your ancestors transfer onto you..which disqualifies free will...and
2) you are taking part in a blood ritual to a deity..to me, that sounds like no deity I would want.

so, ya..the concept is nice..someone sacrificed himself so you could be all good..but the technicals reveals the truth..you must claim damnation, then soak in the blood of the innocent.
no thanks

If J-dawg appears to me and asks to be of equal friends, sure..why not. but if I need to drink and splash around in his blood and death, then I think I will simply pass.

Originally posted by Vsc1981
If all one has to do is believe in Jesus Christ and have faith in Him and know that He died for our sins they will go to heaven when they are called upon what then is hard or wrong about that? People already believe in living their lives the way they want anyway. What would be so hard about believing in someone who died for them? I'll tell you what the problem is. Their of what people will think of them. He didn't care what people thought of Him when they crucified Him for our sins. He died without hesitation. For us. But yet we hesitate to believe in Him. Just simply believe in Him. Just to put Him in hearts and let Him have our souls which will go to Satan and into hell anyway. So I'd much rather my soul go somewhere it will remain beautiful and vibrant, and without pain and sorrow. Just by believing and having an ounce of faith. Of course i have complete faith in Jesus but you surely understand what I'm saying. I'm not afraid of whats coming upon this world but yet i fear God.

Simple mindedness.

I eventually got around to reading it but honestly the "just believe" push didn't work on me. Instead I saw an invitation/insistence on hypocrisy there. My reason to read the bible was to be better able to fend off that sort of crap with their own doctrine and that seriously worked. But it also illuminated truth and Jesus jumped the fiction into my heart as a form of faith.

Even kids know (at least I did) that "just believing" is hypocrisy. Keep your integrity - truth quest by reading to gain perspective. The bible and Jesus are the greatest for that. The "just believe" pushers suck for intellectuals like I was - maybe for retarded people like my friend Henry was. He couldn't read but he knew there's a heaven and Jesus is the way.

Originally posted by Vsc1981
If all one has to do is believe in Jesus Christ and have faith in Him and know that He died for our sins they will go to heaven when they are called upon what then is hard or wrong about that? People already believe in living their lives the way they want anyway. What would be so hard about believing in someone who died for them? I'll tell you what the problem is. Their of what people will think of them. He didn't care what people thought of Him when they crucified Him for our sins. He died without hesitation. For us. But yet we hesitate to believe in Him. Just simply believe in Him. Just to put Him in hearts and let Him have our souls which will go to Satan and into hell anyway. So I'd much rather my soul go somewhere it will remain beautiful and vibrant, and without pain and sorrow. Just by believing and having an ounce of faith. Of course i have complete faith in Jesus but you surely understand what I'm saying. I'm not afraid of whats coming upon this world but yet i fear God.

You do know that fear is a great obstacle? Fear lowers our frequency. If you really had faith, you would have complete and total trust and realize there is nothing to fear. At a high level, there is no judgment; only total love and acceptance, so you have not experienced the 'christ' consciousness. Keep believing in your savior, but realize it is within you and not outside of you and then you will KNOW him.

reply to post by reitze


I just think they are in their own big boys club with their own monies and happenings... and you're just not in it!

jealousy and envy combined with a lack of understanding causes for much strife in the world imo.

Originally posted by Confusion42
I respect your right to belief / faith / religion / worship. I wont be harsh, so, let me ask you a few questions.


Can you tell me who wrote the Bible? Can you name all of the authors who wrote the Bible? By "Author" I mean the person who put pen to paper.

Also, can you name me the editors of the Bible? This includes any and all people who where not "Authors", but "edited" the books ?

Also, who got to decide which books got in, and which didn't?

I am interested on what you think on this matters.

Nice to meet ya

Actually, to add to that (and a fascinating bit of history)...go search on how the translation into latin came about.
Amazingly, it was done by a single clan/family (there were several translations, but only one was chosen for all versions..and that was the one that wasn't necessarily the most accurate, but rather, the most helpful for the establishing church)
But even more odd was that all this was from the greek versions, whom attempted to write down an oral language only

The bible, as it stands, is some 50 time rehashed mishmash of politics and decisions on what things should mean verses actually mean.

We need a time machine to go back and grab someone whom spoke archaic hebrew to simply give us the original...from native toungue to modern english with no 300 steps in between

Originally posted by MarlboroRedCowgirl
reply to post by SheopleNation

 

Wow you think I am naive? I speak of spiritual truths, you speak of worldly truths. And I guess Antisemitism is just fine then, if your logic follows through. Goes to show about where you are in your walk. Jesus Christ wasn't crucified by any sect or group, he was crucified for a reason and was "born to die."
If you were so informed on Biblical truth you'd know these things.
And if you arn't informed, maybe your posting in the wrong thread.

Again...I will post the...I respect others rights to believe what they want to as far as religion...but I also have the right to ask a few questions.
MRC....OH!...and I want you to know how much it is KILLING ME that I am having a discussion about religion with what appears to be an Alpha Female...as I am a Super Alpha Male and this seems like the wrong conversation for the two of us to be having...that is if you are what your Avatar represents you as....hopefully you are not a guy! LOL! Still.....Religion is based on FAITH thus there are going to be alot of inconsistancies when you take verifiable Historical Events or Science and Nature into account and compare it to stories based on Faith. One particular fact that not many people know about and you can google this to see I am not making it up....WE REALLY DON'T KNOW WHAT YEAR IT IS as far as basing the Jan. Ist 0001 as the Birth of Christ. A.D. stands for ANNO DOMINI...Latin for the YEAR OF OUR LORD. B.C. curiously stands for the ENGLISH Abreviation...Before Christ...both terms are known as an EPOCH...or an event in time that Calculations of the passage of time or calendar can be developed a starting or ending point. A.D. and B.C are basically the same moment...when Jesus Christ came out of the womb....but since science hates to use any Religious overtones...it developed B.C....in English short for Before Christ. Since time previous to a persons...important to Religion or not...Birth is an EPOCH that does not promote any Religion other than to admit there was and existed a Jesus Christ...as there is much evidence to prove as much as that Jesus existed...Science used it as an EPOCH for the B.C. Calendar.

The real Bitch is this...we do not know what the real year is plus or minus a few Hundred Years or so. It could be the year 2212 or 1912...we do not know...reason for this...Christianity was at first a practice that could end up with a person being fed to the Lions in the Colosseum...or crucified. Several Hundred Years went by until a date was CHOSEN to represent ANNO DOMINI...the Year of Our Lord. It was an ARBITRARY FIGURE....google this...it is true.

The Date of Jesus Christs Birth...thus developing the EPOCH to start the A.D. Calendar was adopted around 386 A.D. by a Catholic Monk....the actual year is off about 150 to 200 years forward and is off about 100 years backwards in time. The actual date a Jesus Christs birth had to be guesed at since so muh time had passed that no one truely KNEW when he was born...as rcords of Christians born or put to death were not a priority of the Romans was did the Roman Calendar all that acurate as new months were added to celebrate Emperors as this is how we have July...for Julius Ceasar and August for Augustus Ceasar....plus early forms of the Gregorian Calander had issues...and they were always having to reset months and dates as one emperor might feel SLIGHTED if their Month had less days in it than a past Emperors Month.

So Cowgirl in the Sand....of time keeps flowing and stops for no one....save me when I can slow time to almost a halt to observe an action about to take place...I have had to work on this as one time my mind didn't slow things down enough an I was shot. I was wearing Advanced Body Armour but the one thing that comes to mind when you KNOW you are about to be shot is...not your life flashing before your eyes...but two words...OH...S#!%! The next thing is rage and pain...but your adrenaline is pumping so mostly rage and the only thing you want to do is get your Rifle back and...in my case...have a Buddy let you use a part of his body so you can rest part of the weapon so YOU can take the shot...SOB....my Blood Pressure is up! LOL! Split Infinity

Originally posted by Vsc1981
I'm new to ATS and so far I've enjoyed it. [...] So i guess I'm just looking for some support on these issues.

I would like to know how it is that you think mere people are empowered to thwart your god's will? The lack of action on his part does not prove or even support the idea that he is powerful. Rather, it exposes him as a fake. There is only one infinite, omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent and omnipresent Creator, and Jehovah ain't it. To speak of one of his works as "God's true and only work" is more a testament to the small-mindedness he (Jehovah the cosmic parasite) wishes to engender in his adherents than it is a plausible description.

I'm sorry, but I have no candy for you. No tickling for your ears. No stroking for your ego. You will face your real Creator naked and conscious of the way you handled the gifts It gave you. Fortunately for you, "I didn't know any better" is a perfectly acceptable answer, because that is all you will be able to say on your own behalf.

Originally posted by reitze
I eventually got around to reading it but honestly the "just believe" push didn't work on me. Instead I saw an invitation/insistence on hypocrisy there.

when I was young, too young to understand what was going on around me really I lost my brother... I took it pretty badly but I was told by someone that I would see my brother again and I was fascinated by it I am sure but it of course didn't turn out what I thought it would I suppose. That actually began my interest/introduction to spirituality I have always held that belief with me, it's called faith. I was not fooled or tricked into believing and I myself am not one of the laying on of hands kinda fellas either but instead it gave me hope.

the lights-on / lights-off theory of the atheist doesn't cut it for me...

Oh to be emotionally involved in a spiritual relationship with a man who has been dead for the last 2000 years on blind faith alone. Yet hold a deep seeded hatred towards ANY man that loves ANY other man besides Jesus.

Its okay to be gay... FOR JESUS!

Anyone else and its off to the fiery pits!

Oh and i'm not gay. Or Athiest. I am whats called an individual or agnostic if you will. I could believe in a creator with a little backing evidence. But I don't need somebody to die for my sins thanks. I do alright. And hey lets face it... If people like me didn't sin then Jesus died for NOTHING! so be greatful believers! We are doing god's work!

reply to post by SplitInfinity


I like you. Keep that spirit going, question everything. You seem informed, I like that. It doesn't really matter to me what day Christ's birth fell on. We know it could not be December 25th. All that matters is that He was born.

reply to post by seamus


the only ones requiring proof are the naysayers

Originally posted by blarged
Its okay to be gay... FOR JESUS!

that's right in there with the child molesters and serial killers I guess...

though he will forgive you still

Originally posted by SisyphusRide

Originally posted by reitze
I eventually got around to reading it but honestly the "just believe" push didn't work on me. Instead I saw an invitation/insistence on hypocrisy there.

when I was young, too young to understand what was going on around me really I lost my brother... I took it pretty badly but I was told by someone that I would see my brother again and I was fascinated by it I am sure but it of course didn't turn out what I thought it would I suppose. That actually began my interest/introduction to spirituality I have always held that belief with me, it's called faith. I was not fooled or tricked into believing and I myself am not one of the laying on of hands kinda fellas either but instead it gave me hope.

the lights-on / lights-off theory of the atheist doesn't cut it for me...

I would call that HOPE, not faith. Faith comes after deciding what you believe, regardless of when. For me its just a bit beyond HOPE after the historic context and the hopeful words of Jesus. Considering that the stories are of questionable authenticity the step beyond hope into faith couples to the choice of how to live life in order to get the most out of it while not killing eternal possibilities. Pascal's proposition expresses that concept.

Its sorta like buying a lottery ticket for a $1 hoping that it its truly does have an infinite value prize. Even if its not likely, such as $0.000000000000001 times infinity its value is $infinity. But the rub is that without comprehension then faith is lost, its without works so to speak.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
We need a time machine to go back and grab someone...

Ian Clayton actually has done that. He calls it "Transrelocation" He has an awesome video here:
Ian Clayton Transrelocation

reply to post by reitze


it's who I am... what are you going to do about it?