Rising gas prices are due to free market forces...

reply to post by mastahunta

Big Oil is the result of free market because everyone needs oil everyday, because most people cannot enter into the oil industry due to the capital demands.

Your logic is flawed. People need food everyday and the market very often behaves freely. You will see cost rise and fall with supply and demand.


Too much food produced will kill costs, and too much demand can increase it quite a bit. Fruit is a good example. Throughout the year you may see the price of fruit double or decline in half.

With oil though, it is not the same. The market does not operate freely.

Inflation is taxation with out legislation.

When gas prices rise, you will see all prices rise, since fuel grows all the food and etc.

Controlling people with the fuel supply limits the peoples abilities to break free.

It is really simple if you think about it.

Edited to add: There is no such thing as "The Free Market" it is just an illusion, everything has a price.

~Q

Originally posted by PaxVeritas
reply to post by mastahunta

 

And how many no bids contracts did Governments give them, since they were the ONLY logistics companies able to fulfill a service?

BP? EXXON? SHELL?

How many lobbyists do they have allocated? How much donation money or contracts on earmarks and pork do these guys get?

It's an Oligopoly supported by SPECULATORY pricing with LOBBYISTS AAAAAAAND SPECIAL TREATMENT by International Governments AAAAAAND legal monopolistic practices WITH no real anger from citizens (subjects)

TO even hint that this is a 'free market" is patently false.

Speculation is a free market practice...

If you think it is NOT, then why are you disagreeing with me?

If you thought it was not free market, you would agree to eliminate speculation wouldn't you?

We have laws against MONOPOLIES that aren't being used. Standard Oil was 'broken up' on paper only and since then it diversified into other names and titles.

The Government has worked in hand with them since the early 1900s to perpetuate them and all other CARTELS.

You know what a CARTEL is. You know it's legally called a CARTEL for a reason and defines itself as such.

Fascism, Oligopoly, Cartelism....may use 'supply and demand' but it's fixed and MONOPOLIZED, which is illegal, and the Government does nothing to challenge them.

Big Oil in itself is it's own economy out of the bounds of everyday commerce or business ownership. So to use it of an example of 'free markets' is just reaching. It's like saying all white people are racist because the KKK exists.

Capitalists create demand artificially by creating artificial scarcity.

This is the main reason for the wars in the middle east. To keep the supply of oil artificially scarce. To reduce the financial power of the ME. In order to charge you higher prices, and maintain control of the global economy.

The US government has been controlled by the oil cartels for decades.

"The trouble with this country is that you can't win an election without the oil bloc, and you can't govern with it." Franklin D. Roosevelt

"An honest and scupulous man in the oil business is so rare as to rank as a museum piece." Harold Ickes, U.S. Petroleum Administrator for War during World War II

The House of Rockefeller is, first and foremost, THE Invisible Government of the United States. Invisible Government is described as "predatory capital controlling the wheels of government behind a smoke screen." (Bealle, The House of Rockefeller, p. 69).

Rome, Rockefeller, the U.S. and Standard Oil The Monarchy of Money!!

Originally posted by boncho
reply to post by mastahunta

Big Oil is the result of free market because everyone needs oil everyday, because most people cannot enter into the oil industry due to the capital demands.

 

Your logic is flawed. People need food everyday and the market very often behaves freely. You will see cost rise and fall with supply and demand.

My logic is right on.

Oil is non distinctive, you can go to 35 gas stations and you will get the same product.

Food is subject to supply an demand because there is variety and consumers tastes change.
Oil is one choice, one product, fixed demand.

Too much food produced will kill costs, and too much demand can increase it quite a bit. Fruit is a good example. Throughout the year you may see the price of fruit double or decline in half.

With oil though, it is not the same. The market does not operate freely.

You are talking about fruit, anyone can bypass the grapes at $4.99 a pound, they can chose the
apples at $.59 a pound.

I cannot go to a gas station and chose of putting coke into my gas tank, that is where your logic
is flawed.

I think this guy is right.


Rising gas prices?

Originally posted by mastahunta
Originally posted by PaxVeritas

Speculation is a free market practice...

If you think it is NOT, then why are you disagreeing with me?

If you thought it was not free market, you would agree to eliminate speculation wouldn't you?

A guy at a computer belongs to a firm which reacts to charts and graphs and breaking news to hit that BUY button, which makes a price go up....is not a demand by "people". Wall Street is it's own economy which shorts or longs commodities based on a number of things of which little is based on actual value, demand, or supply.

If you couple that with the fact that it trades on commodities/ resources owned and MONOPOLIZED by a few international CARTELS...and propped up by Governments....how can this be "Free Market"?

Originally posted by PaxVeritas
We have laws against MONOPOLIES that aren't being used. Standard Oil was 'broken up' on paper only and since then it diversified into other names and titles.

The Government has worked in hand with them since the early 1900s to perpetuate them and all other CARTELS.

You know what a CARTEL is. You know it's legally called a CARTEL for a reason and defines itself as such.

Fascism, Oligopoly, Cartelism....may use 'supply and demand' but it's fixed and MONOPOLIZED, which is illegal, and the Government does nothing to challenge them.

Big Oil in itself is it's own economy out of the bounds of everyday commerce or business ownership. So to use it of an example of 'free markets' is just reaching. It's like saying all white people are racist because the KKK exists.

Again, I said Speculation

reply to post by ANOK


You got it right on.

Everyone should read this guy's post twice to understand it better.

And his link.

Originally posted by PaxVeritas
Originally posted by mastahunta
Originally posted by PaxVeritas

Speculation is a free market practice...

If you think it is NOT, then why are you disagreeing with me?

If you thought it was not free market, you would agree to eliminate speculation wouldn't you?

A guy at a computer belongs to a firm which reacts to charts and graphs and breaking news to hit that BUY button, which makes a price go up....is not a demand by "people". Wall Street is it's own economy which shorts or longs commodities based on a number of things of which little is based on actual value, demand, or supply.

If you couple that with the fact that it trades on commodities/ resources owned and MONOPOLIZED by a few international CARTELS...and propped up by Governments....how can this be "Free Market"?

Buddy, I am talking about the Speculative market that has leeched onto fix demand commodities.

If you were against speculation because you thought it was anti free market, which is what you are
typing, why are you disagreeing with me???

Have you ever read books by Free Market economists?

Have you ever read any contemporary Free Market writers speak anything 'nice' of the Oil Cartels?

No, because the industry goes beyond all rules of the Free Market.

One can argue 'Capitalism". But then again Corporatism and Oligopoly hardly even counts as THAT.

Your thread is taking a premise that is patently false to draw a parallel to an economic principle it's not part of, but thinly LINKED TO because of supply and demand.

To put it simply.

If speculators were not FREE to speculate, we would not have to pay for their
speculation.

Nobody is FORCING speculators to drive the costs of gas up and up and up,
they are FREE to do it, so they do it with impunity.

Sorry to burst peoples bubbles here but everyone knows there is no such thing as a free market the rise in fuel prices has a lot of factors.

The biggest ones being that it is a finite resource as populations and countries grow so does their fuel consumption couple with the fact of green legislation that has resulted in offshore drilling banning, and the banning drilliing in known area that can produce that product and then of course when a the project of a lifetime like the keystone pipeline being denied.

The fact that refineries are decades old and not a single new one has been built in the last 30 years.

Anyone who is blaming the "free market" when there is no such thing and speculation don't have a clue in the last 30 years there are at least 1 billion new people using that resource.

Originally posted by neo96
Sorry to burst peoples bubbles here but everyone knows there is no such thing as a free market the rise in fuel prices has a lot of factors.

The biggest ones being that it is a finite resource as populations and countries grow so does their fuel consumption couple with the fact of green legislation that has resulted in offshore drilling banning, and the banning drilliing in known area that can produce that product and then of course when a the project of a lifetime like the keystone pipeline being denied.

So what makes you think the Keystone pipeline will save you money?

How do you KNOW that speculators won't just speculate the prices up ANYWAYS?

Originally posted by mastahunta
To put it simply.

If speculators were not FREE to speculate, we would not have to pay for their
speculation.

Nobody is FORCING speculators to drive the costs of gas up and up and up,
they are FREE to do it, so they do it with impunity.

Like I said, WALL STREET is it's own economy. We have two economies.

And Wall Street works at the behest of Government's LACK of enforcing current laws that are already on the books.

A system of legal monopolization exists because those at the top LET it. This is not a Free Market, this is a hijack by International thugs. You and I both seem to agree on that so go from there. Because saying this REPRESENTS the free market is not going to answer the problems.

If you start with a faulty premise, you're going to get faulty results. I'm simply reminding you that the base premise of the OP is off.

Originally posted by PaxVeritas
Have you ever read books by Free Market economists?

Have you ever read any contemporary Free Market writers speak anything 'nice' of the Oil Cartels?

No, because the industry goes beyond all rules of the Free Market.

One can argue 'Capitalism". But then again Corporatism and Oligopoly hardly even counts as THAT.

Your thread is taking a premise that is patently false to draw a parallel to an economic principle it's not part of, but thinly LINKED TO because of supply and demand.

Well if proponents of free markets don't like the Oil Cartels, maybe they should be against speculating
which would eliminate some of the price gouging we experience. this would make the Cartels invest their
money and profit motive into other regions, which would reduce the cost of gas.

reply to post by mastahunta


Price speculation has a larger impact on oil/gas prices than not only supply, but also stuff like a crisis in the Middle East...it accounts for the majority of price movements.

Originally posted by mastahunta

Originally posted by boncho
reply to post by mastahunta

Big Oil is the result of free market because everyone needs oil everyday, because most people cannot enter into the oil industry due to the capital demands.

 

Your logic is flawed. People need food everyday and the market very often behaves freely. You will see cost rise and fall with supply and demand.

My logic is right on.

Oil is non distinctive, you can go to 35 gas stations and you will get the same product.

Food is subject to supply an demand because there is variety and consumers tastes change.
Oil is one choice, one product, fixed demand.

Too much food produced will kill costs, and too much demand can increase it quite a bit. Fruit is a good example. Throughout the year you may see the price of fruit double or decline in half.

With oil though, it is not the same. The market does not operate freely.

You are talking about fruit, anyone can bypass the grapes at $4.99 a pound, they can chose the
apples at $.59 a pound.

I cannot go to a gas station and chose of putting coke into my gas tank, that is where your logic
is flawed.

You have the option of putting different octanes of gas in your car. And if one gas station was 30 cents cheaper than another one, which one would you fill up at?

I know the last time I went to the supermarket I bought cheaper apples...

The difference with oil and gas being, that there is not a multitude of suppliers that compete with each other to bring the cheapest and best apples (gas) to market. There is no choice, and you can't visit the local refinery (farmer)....

The only monopiy that exists when it comes to oil is that the value of the dollar and the price of a barrel of oil are tied together.

Since the Federal Reserve values and depreciates its value a barrel of oil in 1980 was around 20 bucks a barrel would be worth over 55 today.

Like i said a lot of factors that play into the price at the pump and yeah the keystone could have introduced new supplies that millions of American's could be using and wait for it end our "Foreign Dependency" in the Middle East.

People wanna bring all those troops home RIGHT? that was one way to accomplish that.