Rising gas prices are due to free market forces...

Simply put, gas prices rising in the U.S -

They are rising because the marketeers are free to speculate and manipulate
the prices of Gas and any commodity. We pay until it hurts so some people
can take our financial pain and profit from it. Essentially we pay more so that
people are free to screw us more, simply because they have the power, resources
and desire to do so.

Can any person opt out of gas prices???

NO you cannot, you are forced to pay for a global casino in the name of some
twisted sense of "FREEDOM".

So in the end you are forced to go along with something that further squeezes
you more and more. A new form of extortion that is build right into the fabric of
our society, its hard to detect, but it sure as hell is there demanding a tribute
and your hard earned dollars regardless of how you feel about it. They are free
to do it and you are free to accept it.

Since you cannot opt out of paying for the casino of the investor class, do you really
have a CHOICE? Is this really Freedom? The markets are completely free to extort
money from each and every person with a gas tank to fill and I think it is crap, I am
tired of paying for people and schemes that do nothing productive for society.

If this is freedom, where is your choice to opt out or change the system?

reply to post by mastahunta


so everyone digs paying more for gas each and everyday?

Did someone throw water on your fire? when did you give up on life?

The oil exploration and refining industry is anything but a free market. It has been consolidated over the years and monopolized.

Simple.

Its funny because we already own the oil we pay for. Sounds pretty crazy right? Pretty sure the only mammals on the planet using oil is human beings. We are all living on this planet at the moment. Yet a few people decided they own something that took millions of years to create and is located beneath the surface of the planet. And because they found it, they control it and can limit it.

Every person should own a share in the oil industry. Too bad the greedy just can't control money, they need to control humanity also. Pity we have gotten to this point. I'm just waiting for the day when those guys get whats coming to them. I'm personally glad to think I will see it in my lifetime. Though I wouldn't mind it it happened this exact second lol.

Originally posted by boncho
The oil exploration and refining industry is anything but a free market. It has been consolidated over the years and monopolized.

Simple.

Yes but the markets are free to manipulate prices, nobody is forcing them to do it.

They have the freedom to do it and so they do it.

They make billions more a day and we continue to pay because we have to get to work.
How is that any different from extortion?

Pay us, or you can't drive?

I am not asking for free gas here man, I am asking that we should not have to pay for some
gambling scheme invented by billionaires. What is the use of it to any of us?

reply to post by mastahunta


The Oil and Gas CARTEL is called a CARTEL for a reason.

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

And most of the gas companies are descendants of this... en.wikipedia.org...

Nobody has the money or the political and lobby power to explore oil regions or drill for oil or refine petroleum. So cartels have formed by major MONOPOLIES all in concert with International Governments.

Your understanding of "free market" is grossly flawed and the premise for the thread is moot.

reply to post by mastahunta


It's Obama's fault. I'll believe nothing else!

He's purposely raising gas prices all on his own because it's an election year and he doesn't want to be re-elected!

It's true and god bless wall street speculators.

reply to post by mastahunta

Pay us, or you can't drive?

I am not asking for free gas here man, I am asking that we should not have to pay for some
gambling scheme invented by billionaires. What is the use of it to any of us?

Well, technically you could carpool, take a bus, train or some other type of transit. In most places in North America, for some reason that's socially unacceptable. In some cases not entirely feasible, but regardless it isn't very popular.

Neither are higher mileage vehicles. Consumers are not helping the situation. For the most part, the monopolized market hurts potential entrepreneurs.

But alas, even when it was a free market, the amount of scams in the oil industry by prospectors was rampant.

At the end of the day, the consumer needs to call the shots. And asking your local government for better transportation is the first step.

If you want to lower gas prices lower taxes.

Yes the free market is to blame, because part of that free market is a government that is addicted to tax and spending. It is up to the free market to change that aspect of the system.

You can also ease up on the gas pedal while diving to all the Larry leadfoots out there. Your fries will still be cold regardless of how fast you drive.

reply to post by mastahunta

Yes but the markets are free to manipulate prices, nobody is forcing them to do it.

You are outlining a monopoly more than a free market. A free market is subject to supply and demand. A monopoly can create supply and demand through price fixing. Shifting as needed to maximize profit.

A free market is bound by consumers first, monopolies are bound by consumers last. As they control how the market functions.

reply to post by filosophia


We can lower our usage even more...but all a country or oil company has to do is cut oil production...then it doesn't matter.

Originally posted by PaxVeritas
reply to post by mastahunta

 

The Oil and Gas CARTEL is called a CARTEL for a reason.

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

And most of the gas companies are descendants of this... en.wikipedia.org...

Nobody has the money or the political and lobby power to explore oil regions or drill for oil or refine petroleum. So cartels have formed by major MONOPOLIES all in concert with International Governments.

Your understanding of "free market" is grossly flawed and the premise for the thread is moot.

It is not flawed, it is right on.

If you study economic there are several business venture that can constitute Oligopoly.

Oil is one of them, because the demand of oil never really changes for us, the entire market
is not truly subject to the laws of supply and demand, the demand is virtually fixed.

Lets get all logical here for a second.

If there were no government would that stop oil speculation? Do you have ANY control
over that?

Oil Cartels don't represent 'the Market". It's part of a market, but a small part.

It's a resource industry, which very few have access to owning or competing in.

Big Oil and Gas and much of Energy are legal monopolistic corporations.

But if everyone got angry and demanded lower prices we would get somewhere.

How many people do you see picketing gas stations in droves?

There are none. People are too bust arguing about religion and birth control.

Originally posted by boncho
reply to post by mastahunta

Pay us, or you can't drive?

I am not asking for free gas here man, I am asking that we should not have to pay for some
gambling scheme invented by billionaires. What is the use of it to any of us?

 

Well, technically you could carpool, take a bus, train or some other type of transit. In most places in North America, for some reason that's socially unacceptable. In some cases not entirely feasible, but regardless it isn't very popular.

So you are really telling me that my only choice is stop driving?

Listen to the brunt of your argument ; Mastahunta you are free to to be forced to stop driving?
That is my option...

why not?," lets stop speculation "!!! You would benefit to, wouldn't you?

reply to post by mastahunta


It isn't "market forces" that are driving gas prices; its market speculation.

If market forces were driving gas prices, the law of supply and demand would determine the price. The more we used, the higher the prices would get, the more produced, the lower the prices. High prices would reduce demand and force the price to go down to reasonable numbers, just as low prices would drive up demand and the price of gas.

This isn't what's happening today. The high prices have driven demand to new lows and people are doing everything possible to limit fuel usage. There is plenty of oil being imported into the US, more than enough to cover all of the demand but, the price keeps skyrocketing.

The problem is speculation. Suits on Wall Street create artificial demand by buying up oil futures creating a demand that just isn't real. They make money hand over fist while we all suffer. They use the excuse of tensions in the Middle East and say that is what is driving up prices but, with the ample supply still coming to our shores, we should all know that is BS.

They are creating another bubble in the oil prices which is bound to pop sometime, after they have soaked the little guy of everything they can get from him and drive him just short of starting a revolution. Then, they will let the bubble pop in order to soothe the masses into thinking normalcy has returned again (probably just in time for Obama's re-election). Of course, they will have gotten rid of their oil holding long before the bubble pops; having sold them to middle class pention funds on the promise that the market is steadily moving up.

They rip us off coming and going; driving up the prices untill we scream and then leave us holding the bag once the bubble inevitably pops. How this type of market manipulation and speculation can be legal is beyond me. The people who control the money make the laws in their favor and screw all the rest of us.

Originally posted by mastahunta
Originally posted by PaxVeritas

It is not flawed, it is right on.

If you study economic there are several business venture that can constitute Oligopoly.

Oil is one of them, because the demand of oil never really changes for us, the entire market
is not truly subject to the laws of supply and demand, the demand is virtually fixed.

Lets get all logical here for a second.

If there were no government would that stop oil speculation? Do you have ANY control
over that?

No, it IS FLAWED. you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

You just ADMITTED that oil is an oligopoly. An oligopoly constitutes a small few which have access to a large demand. That is essentially a monopolistic venture, which CANNOT be free market capitalism.

You ALSO just admitted that the prices are FIXED. Which is not market driven, which is not free market.

So twice by your own words you shot your own premise down.

Give up dude. You know damn well that Big Oil does not represent the 'free market'. You're just going to keep spinning it as such because you can't back out of your own thread and reverse. And I would be surprised if you actually had the guts to concede because most people who create a thread on ATS defend it to the hilt even though they are proven flat out WRONG.

Odds are you're going to do the same.

Originally posted by PaxVeritas
Oil Cartels don't represent 'the Market". It's part of a market, but a small part.

It's a resource industry, which very few have access to owning or competing in.

Yes, exactly what constitutes Oligopoly, it is so expensive to enter into the market
very few can enter into it, which essentially creates a large market controlled by
a few. That is the way it works by nature, that is if you have you hands off it.

Do you see? because very few people have a 20 billion dollars to drill, refine
and transport, means that only a few groups can control the whole market place.

Big Oil and Gas and much of Energy are legal monopolistic corporations.

But if everyone got angry and demanded lower prices we would get somewhere.

How many people do you see picketing gas stations in droves?

There are none. People are too bust arguing about religion and birth control.

I would like to see people try it, not sure if it would help, but why not?

Originally posted by PaxVeritas
Originally posted by mastahunta
Originally posted by PaxVeritas

It is not flawed, it is right on.

If you study economic there are several business venture that can constitute Oligopoly.

Oil is one of them, because the demand of oil never really changes for us, the entire market
is not truly subject to the laws of supply and demand, the demand is virtually fixed.

Lets get all logical here for a second.

If there were no government would that stop oil speculation? Do you have ANY control
over that?

No, it IS FLAWED. you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

You just ADMITTED that oil is an oligopoly. An oligopoly constitutes a small few which have access to a large demand. That is essentially a monopolistic venture, which CANNOT be free market capitalism.

That is just not the case at all... An oligopoly is a function of nature, not government. It exists
simple because most of us do not have the resources to drill, refine and transport, it costs to
much, therefore you and I and your neighbor and my neighbor are excluded from the market,
NATURALLY.

You ALSO just admitted that the prices are FIXED. Which is not market driven, which is not free market.

I siad DEMAND WAS FIX, DEMAND... The prices fluctaute exactly because they are free to fluctuate,
key word is FREE.

So twice by your own words you shot your own premise down.

You made stuff up man, read it again.

Give up dude.

Exactly what they want from all of us, accept it, you accept it because you love your ideas
more than you love your own money.

You know damn well that Big Oil does not represent the 'free market'.

Big Oil is the result of free market because everyone needs oil everyday, because most
people cannot enter into the oil industry due to the capital demands.

You're just going to keep spinning it as such because you can't back out of your own thread and reverse. And I would be surprised if you actually had the guts to concede because most people who create a thread on ATS defend it to the hilt even though they are proven flat out WRONG.

Odds are you're going to do the same.

I've just started man, I'll box you up anytime here, no problem...

reply to post by mastahunta


And how many no bids contracts did Governments give them, since they were the ONLY logistics companies able to fulfill a service?

BP? EXXON? SHELL?

How many lobbyists do they have allocated? How much donation money or contracts on earmarks and pork do these guys get?

It's an Oligopoly supported by SPECULATORY pricing with LOBBYISTS AAAAAAAND SPECIAL TREATMENT by International Governments AAAAAAND legal monopolistic practices WITH no real anger from citizens (subjects)

TO even hint that this is a 'free market" is patently false.

Originally posted by FortAnthem
reply to post by mastahunta

 

It isn't "market forces" that are driving gas prices; its market speculation.

If market forces were driving gas prices, the law of supply and demand would determine the price.

...the point is Anthem, the demand is fixed. Everyone needs gas, so the wisdom you apply to a
SPECIFIC used car or a cake you are gonna buy as a treat do not apply in the same way.

I mean listen. Do you ever need less gas to drive to work each day?

Or to the market?

Or Church?

NO

The amount of gas your car needs to get you to all the places you have to go are FIX, your
cars demands are fixed. So the Supply and Demand does not work the way it does with pizza's
or car shopping...