The Secret of Freemasonry Seen in the Reflection of a Mirror - What do you see?

Originally posted by Conspirus
It was made in that previous post, since you can’t seem to handle yourself very well, here is my old post that I am referring to:
“Only reason I brought up FDR putting it on the dollar is because he was not a Christian...

Are we going to recover old ground? Just because you think he was not a Christian (when he was an Episcopalin) does not make it so.

And no, no star for you.

I am heartbroken.

More clue than you, you are the one calling them Christian man! Just cuz they can draw pictures of Jesus really well.

Again, just because you think the Roman Catholic Chruch is not Christian does not alter the fact that the Eye of Providence was used to represent the Trinity in cathedrals and churches.

If you knew ANYTHING about the Renaissance you would know that that’s when secular humanism started, not anything good from any biblical standpoint.

I have no major issue with Secular Humanism. I tend to be closer to their view point on many issues (although I do believe in God) than any religious nutter.

Hmm, well judging from all you’ve said so far combined with that wonderful attitude of yours, I’d take what he’s saying over yours in a heartbeat.

That is your perogative, it does not make his opinion any more vaild that any other Mason when speaking of their personal interpretation of Masonic ritual.

Thus you imply yourself that at one point they likely had similar origins.

Operative Masonry lead to Speculative Masonry but there are no similarities between Speculative Masonry and Roman Catholic religious dogma or practices.

In your own words, there are plenty who don’t.

It is the plenty who do that make the point valid.

It is all there man, “you have a serious comprehension issue.” Nice way to randomly nit pick at what you want to complain about, especially when your method of quoting others totally sucks; and how bout dropping the derogatory comments and focusing on just discussion.

Oh, please, get over yourself. I noticed you left out the points about how you though the symbols on the Greal Seal was revered throught history and did not cite evidence when I asked. Maybe you should contemplate your own method of quoting.

What is or isn’t relevant doesn’t seem to matter to you very much.

The inclusion of random comments regarding hieroglyphics had what relevance to the topic?

Oh yeah? As you like to say, that is your own personal interpretation. Both the front and back side of the Great Seal is described below.

While referring to the number 13’s relevance on the Great Seal, Manley P. Hall wrote:

This is a common mistake by persons trying to argue against Masonry: "Manly Hall was a Mason and Manly said: X, Y and Z." Well guess what? Manly Hall wrote about Masonry 30 years before becoming a Mason. His opinion on Masonic ritual and symbolism was based in the same place as anyone else who is not a Mason, in ignorance. Try reading his remarks after he joined.

James D. Carter, 33rd degree freemason, admitted the Masonic symbolism is clearly known whenever “an informed Mason examines the Great Seal.”

Roosevelt…was first struck with the representation of the all-seeing eye - a Masonic representation of the Great Architect of the Universe. ...

Other than the Eye of Providence (which no one is disputing), what are the other 'Masonic' symbols? We must be missing them.

Those who were artists during the Renaissance can in no way be confirmed Christian - this being the case, if they weren’t Christian and were using it to depict deity, what does that tell you?

That is a piss-poor arguement. Just because you can not confirm their religious denomination they are not Christian? Then my arguement is this: the New Testament was written by men who, since we can not confirm their Christian status, may very well be Pagans, making the entire work, Pagan. See how stupid this gets?

And by deity who are you referring to? Deity implies possibility of referring to gods other than God.

Sorry. Diety with a capital 'D', refering to God.

How much you want to ignore that fact is quite obvious with your poor examples to Kyobosha of biblically fallen away church buildings.

Just becuase, in your tight, Bible-hugging viewpoint, these churches are 'fallen away' does not make the people there think that they are not Christian nor does it negate their view that the Eye of Providence refers to Diety (God). You are argiung your opinion versus their's.

The eye coupled with the concept of a triangle has been used since ancient times.

Really? Where is the evidence? I suggest you read Albert M. Potts The World's Eye which is the difintive work on the usage of the eye throughout history. There is no usgae of an eye in a triangle prior to the 16th/17th centuries.

Do you have biblical evidence the eye in a triangle refers to the Trinity?

Why would there be 'Biblical evidence'? The whole point I am making (and which you continually fail to see) is that it came long after the Bible was written. It evolved from earlier forms in the 1500's and was used as a Christian symbol.

If it were such a "purely" Christian symbol, why do we see pure Satan lovers such as the late Aleister Crowley wearing it?

Considering Crowley was not a 'pure Satan lover' (what ever that is) I do not see the relevance of your inane non-sequitor. Even if he were, why does it matter what he does with it? You still miss the point. To some Christians it means Diety, to some it does not, to conspiracy theorists it mean the Illuminati is watching you. Who cares what Crowley thought of it, his opinion is irrelevant to the Christian usage of the symbol which predated him by many centuries.

Koine Greek.

Good, I will start looking for a copy.

Yeah, but are they biblically correct as a whole? No.

Biblically correct according to who? You?

Good, finally a point you’re not off on. Now go study on the difference between the Law of Moses and the Law of Christ.

I already did.

Haha, yeah, except Lucifer being a former arch angel would still be infinitely stronger and on a whole nother level than Jim Jones, but he would still not be equal to God nonetheless.

Since I do not believe in Lucifer/Satan (or any other fairy tale boogeymen) he holds no relevance to me. Even if Satan were real it would still make him subordinate to God and not a Supreme Being.

An architect cannot create things out of nothing, an architect needs materials to create with, they design based upon available technologies.

Semantics. The word 'God' is frequently used in Masonic Ritual and it is understood to be interchangeable with the phrase 'Great Architect of the Universe'. You can not tell me what I am thinking when I hear that euphamism.

So like Kyobosha said, Satan will take his best shot at beating God in His own game.

Like I said, Satan is make-believe so what is the relevance to me?

According to Pike, he equates Lucifer as being equal to “Adonay” (the name they use for the original God when they have no allegiance to him,) by stating “Lucifer is God, but unfortunately, Adonay is also God” there can be no light without shadow, etc. something like that.

Or something like that? Really? I have one for you. Stop quoting the Taxil Hoax. If you stopped using Jesus-nutter websites that propogate this crap you might actually have avoided using this lame bit of crap as 'evidence'.

Yes he did say that, or do you not know of that either?

Then post the quote.

He said a bit more than that. That’s an easy one to find so you can do that yourself….maybe. Here’s an extra quote for you from Manly P. Hall:
"When the Mason ... has learned the mystery of his Craft, the seething energies of Lucifer are in his hands. ..." (Manly Palmer Hall, The Lost Keys of Freemasonry, p. 48).

Do I need to remind you again when Hall wrote this? Maybe you can step it up a bit and check your 'facts' before you present them.

reply to post by Conspirus

So because you associate all occult and mystic symbolism to Freemasonry, anyone who has symbolism in a movie, they must be a Mason? Symbols are arbitrary and ambiguous.

He was only a honorary Shriner as well. To be a Shriner you must be a 3rd degree Master Mason only and the Shrine does not have the authority to bestow the first 3-degrees upon anyone. It was an honorary gesture.

He was given honorary membership for his actions not because he was definitively tied to it.

While I generally don't have a clue about the whole totality of this discussion...
I know that it has something to do with the one dollar note.
In the old days a spell was cast on the citizenry. In one such tale there was Oedipus Rex who solved the riddle and freed his people from the egyptian sphinx.
So... that being said. I think you should know that the 1 USD Note is actually just a riddle. Solve it. Perform it. and see what glorious things come about. Yay? Yay!

reply to post by Conspirus

Again this is a theory, speculation. There are many myths and theories about the origins of Freemason. None more credible than the next. There are too many gaps and large pieces of information missing.

reply to post by Conspirus

I'll have to re-watch and re-read everything he has said and written. This may take a while.

Originally posted by Conspirus

Originally posted by starseedflower
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

I would rather read something that has not been changed so many times out of convenience (please research Council of Nicaea), so when I take the Bible as a reference, I take it with an open mind and a pinch of salt, sorry mate.

If the Council of Nicaea is what bothers you and you are truly concerned about what is truth you should learn Greek and read the original for yourself. Translating a language as complex as Greek into English to make it equally meaningful is a huge task in itself - Council of Nicaea aside, I have problems with that council myself as well.

One great-grand-dad of mine was a teacher for Old Greek and Latin, a very correct person and advocating Humanism his entire life and also a Freemason, got persecuted by the Nazis and by Communists alike, my Granny now 86 still tells the moment when her father met for her wedding my grand-dad' s dad, he was also a Freemason(and so was my Grand-dad) and a Christian Greek-Catholic village priest, who got persecuted by the Communists for being a priest and a Freemason, the two men were able to have meaningful conversation in Latin. our family was never wealthy but always thirsty for knowledge. I myself speak and write fluently 5 languages, my partner of almost 11 years (also a Mason and Vegan) has the same abilities in 4 languages, still we are not wealthy and work for a living.
I wanted to point out these things, because some people posting here think that the majority of Masons are wealthy, sorry guys for disappointing your expectations, but this is not the case.

reply to post by SuperiorEd


The mirror and reflection was soooo close to understanding a real secret of freemasonry.

Lucifer(venus) and her mirror?

Islam and the moon?

Why?

This thread has provided no real argument regarding anything relevant to the topic.

Therefore, npothing doing.

Originally posted by Conspirus

Originally posted by W3RLIED2
reply to post by W3RLIED2

 

And just because I don't think this point is driven home enough. I've said it plenty, and I'll keep saying it:

I was raised catholic, and every Friday and Sunday we would ritually consume a piece of un leavened bread, anda sip of wine. We symbolically, and ritually, ate flesh and drank blood.
Christianity certainly has a few head scratchers for me, needless to say, how you can come on here and call us ritualistic Luciferians, when every sabbath you practice a ritual as well.

Alright sure, I agree communion is a ritual but if classified as such it is quite the mild one in where one does not eat actual flesh nor drink real blood but is more along the lines of eating a tiny piece of cracker and a drop of grape juice, and is just to "remember" what Christ did for them.

Whereas a satanic ritual is much more sadistic in nature where children and virgins are tortured, raped to the point of death, and sacrificed and they do eat human flesh and drink their blood, all to gather the evil energy for whatever event/person they're trying to add power to. Candles, mysticism, etc. was added in by the by-then-satanically-influenced-Catholic church and is separate from their true religion preached by Jesus. This happened with Pope Miltiades under Constantine, who was given the title "Pope" and had the Pope's Palace built for him for agreeing to mix paganism with the original Christianity as Constantine did not want to get rid of paganism; ever since then the had-been poor church, the Roman Catholics became filthy rich and wealthy - as they still say, follow the money. The Vatican has been holding hands with Satan for a very long time.

And as a side note, unless they get you hypnotized or possessed or you were born in one of the illuminati families, you aren't gonna become a blood drinking flesh eating satanist overnight, they build you up to that point
.

Now there you go, I have told you guys almost my entire family history on this thread, three generations of Freemasons and I am also Rh-negative, guess what: I am a Vegetarian and so is my son(7) and my partner (Mason) is a Vegan.
Enough of this BS!!!

Originally posted by Kyobosha


To be honest, the fact that Mrs. Clinton held seances in the white house and attempted to communicate with Eleanor Roosevelt is really concerning.

So what is wrong with that I may ask, it is a women's thing: reading coffee grounds, tea leaves, tarot cards and conversing with death relatives or friends, it basically equals self-reflection, introspection and gaining inspiration, you can also choose to meditate in solitude if you please.
So you can ask yourself before speaking or acting:
Is it kind?, Is it the truth?, Is it necessary?

I think that the free masons are running part of the shadow government. It needs to be addressed and exposed. Not all masons know the truth they are kept in the dark.

reply to post by henryharrison1984

Let's dissect this statement.

Do you have proof that Freemasons are running a part of some perceived shadow government? What makes you think this?

If this "running of the shadow government" is so uber secret that not all Masons know then how do you know?

reply to post by KSigMason

Here is some things Solomon did
1 Kings 11:5 He followed Ashtoreth the goddess of the Sidonians, and Molech the detestable god of the Ammonites.
1 Kings 11:7 On a hill east of Jerusalem, Solomon built a high place for Chemosh the detestable god of Moab, and for Molech the detestable god of the Ammonites.
It wasn't Baal he sacrificed to, KsigMason, you told me to research Baal. But for what reason... You don't know your bible.... I mistakenly thought it was Baal, and after I told you it was Molech you still brought up baal... Anyways the ring he used to summon demons is talked about in the testament of King Solomon.. I guess your masonic ways have closed your mind to different view points....

Read this Mason
Matthew 7:13 "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.
He said this before Masonry was created... yet Freemasonry is a fraternal organization that arose from obscure origins in the late 16th to early 17th century. Freemasonry now exists in various forms all over the world, with a membership estimated at around six million.
I have know quite a few Masons, one of them shot himself. And the others seem to be far from a loving heart. I'm no judge though.... I know there are some good masons, but most are lead astray.
Beware of false prophets who come disguised as harmless sheep but are really vicious wolves. You can identify them by their fruit, that is, the way they act. Can you pick grapes from thorn bushes or figs from thistles? A good tree produces good fruit, and a bad tree produces bad fruit. A good tree can’t produce bad fruit and a bad tree can’t produce good fruit. So every tree that does not produce good fruit is chopped down and thrown into the fire. Yes, just as you can identify a tree by its fruit, so you can identify people by their actions.

Not everyone who calls out to me, “Lord! Lord!” will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter. On judgment day many will say to me, “Lord! Lord! We prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name.” But I will reply, “I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God’s laws.

Now, I can honestly say that I'm not living up to those standards. - Matt Odlum So I plan to make changes in my life to pursue righteousness in every capacity I can. Peace and Love to All......Message to the Devil -Your days are numbered and Archangel Michael will slay you!

I think Henrey means that alot of presidents are Mason's and they hand pick who they want to be president. Kind of how the Skull and Bones prep people to be leaders....And they have some strange rituals as well. Also, KsigMason if Mason's were running part of the shadow Govt. how would you know.... Even some 33 degree mason's don't know that much... There are levels much higher than that....
I'm sleepy KsigMason, so I will reply to anything you have for me tomorrow.

a long time before men put one stone on top of one another or had a language to talk in or clothes on their back there were painters about doing there thing . contenplate that one . row row row the boat gently down the stream .

reply to post by Mattodlum

Well, you still didn't answer my questions from my previous response to you:

So you're saying Solomon went bad before building the Temple? That God allowed His House to be built by demons? Hmmmm...which Bible verse supports this?

None of the verses you have posted (from the 11th Chapter) occurred AFTER the completion of the Temple, not before.

Okay so right now you are saying:

It wasn't Baal he sacrificed to, KsigMason, you told me to research Baal.

But in my previous response to you, I was responding to this quote of YOURS:

In the end he loved an evil women who Made him sacrifice grasshoppers to baal. baal is basically the devil.

You did indeed say he sacrificed to Baal. Quit playing games. Yes, you did bring up Molech, but I didn't see it until I had already addressed the Baal issue.

I'm not the close minded one. In fact we Masons are very tolerant, we're the ones being attacked here and your telling me to just accept it.

Masons are still human and capable of err, even to the end of their own life. I know quite a few Masons too and they are well loved and love well. You have it backwards, most are good and not lead astray.

Beware of false prophets who come disguised as harmless sheep but are really vicious wolves.

And I am very weary of those who will tell me my business when they themselves know not the truth.

Our orchard is fruitful, but can sometimes bear bad fruit and we try to get rid of those ones.

A good tree can’t produce bad fruit and a bad tree can’t produce good fruit.

Wow, its evident you know about as much of growing fruit than you do of Masonry. Very little. You do not cut an entire tree down for a single bad fruit.

reply to post by Mattodlum

There were only 14 Masons to be President. We do not handpick them.

According to your logic though, I'd be higher on the totem pole to receive any information that were running a shadow government over non-Masons. Just going by your logic.

There is no Scottish Rite degree higher than the 33rd, but again, that is Scottish Rite only. There is more appendant bodies in Masonry than just the Scottish Rite.

Originally posted by Mattodlum
reply to post by KSigMason

 

Here is some things Solomon did
1 Kings 11:5 He followed Ashtoreth the goddess of the Sidonians, and Molech the detestable god of the Ammonites.
1 Kings 11:7 On a hill east of Jerusalem, Solomon built a high place for Chemosh the detestable god of Moab, and for Molech the detestable god of the Ammonites.
It wasn't Baal he sacrificed to, KsigMason, you told me to research Baal. But for what reason... You don't know your bible.... I mistakenly thought it was Baal, and after I told you it was Molech you still brought up baal... Anyways the ring he used to summon demons is talked about in the testament of King Solomon.. I guess your masonic ways have closed your mind to different view points....

Read this Mason
Matthew 7:13 "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.
He said this before Masonry was created... yet Freemasonry is a fraternal organization that arose from obscure origins in the late 16th to early 17th century. Freemasonry now exists in various forms all over the world, with a membership estimated at around six million.
I have know quite a few Masons, one of them shot himself. And the others seem to be far from a loving heart. I'm no judge though.... I know there are some good masons, but most are lead astray.
Beware of false prophets who come disguised as harmless sheep but are really vicious wolves. You can identify them by their fruit, that is, the way they act. Can you pick grapes from thorn bushes or figs from thistles? A good tree produces good fruit, and a bad tree produces bad fruit. A good tree can’t produce bad fruit and a bad tree can’t produce good fruit. So every tree that does not produce good fruit is chopped down and thrown into the fire. Yes, just as you can identify a tree by its fruit, so you can identify people by their actions.

Not everyone who calls out to me, “Lord! Lord!” will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter. On judgment day many will say to me, “Lord! Lord! We prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name.” But I will reply, “I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God’s laws.

Now, I can honestly say that I'm not living up to those standards. - Matt Odlum So I plan to make changes in my life to pursue righteousness in every capacity I can. Peace and Love to All......Message to the Devil -Your days are numbered and Archangel Michael will slay you!

edit on 28-2-2012 by Mattodlum because: Grammer error

The Matthews 7:13 verse has an esoteric meaning, that is in complete agreement with Veda wisdom and teaches that we should be balanced while meditating and how to correctly raise our energy to connect with the divine and live a spiritually fulfilled life. Inside every human being there is a network of nerves and sensory organs that interprets the outside physical world. These 'whirlpools of energy' are known as chakras and have an objective existence, where the body's subtle energy is most concentrated. A central energy channel (Matthew' s narrow road!), roughly analogous with the spine, is taken to be the strongest means by which chakras are connected to. We all have a subtle system of channels (nadis) and centers of energy (chakras) which look after our physical, intellectual, emotional and spiritual being. Each of the seven chakras has several spiritual qualities. These qualities are intact within us, and even though they might not be obvious, they can never be destroyed. When the Kundalini energy is awakened, these qualities start manifesting spontaneously and express themselves in our life. Through regular meditation, we become automatically very dynamic, creative, confident and at the same time very humble, loving and compassionate and connected to higher field of consciousness or God if you will. These energy channels are very real the resulting knowledge has been used successfully for thousands of years in eastern traditions not only for spiritual purposes but also for medical purposes ( see Acupuncture).

reply to post by SuperiorEd


One secret of Freemasonry can be seen in the reflection of a mirror, our greatest enemy is our self. The following poem is not strictly a Masonic source but it explains nicely.

Our greatest enemy is ourself. All weakness, all ignorance keeps us from the
truth of our being, from all the virtues hidden in us and all perfection hidden
in our souls. The first self we realize is the false self. Unless the soul is
born again it will not see the kingdom of heaven. The soul is born into the
false self; it is blind. In the true self the soul opens its eyes. Unless the
false self is fought with, the true self cannot be realized.

The soul is a bird of paradise, a free dweller in the heavens. Its first prison
is the mind, then the body. In these it becomes not only limited, but also
captive. The whole endeavor of a Sufi in life is to liberate the soul from its
captivity, which he does by conquering both mind and body.

If a man has control over himself, he will smile and be patient even if he is
exposed to rages a thousand times. He will just wait. He who has spiritual
control has great control; but he who has it not can control neither spiritual
nor physical events. He cannot control his own sons and daughters, for he never
listens to himself first. If he listened to himself, not only persons but even
objects would listen to him.

Bowl of Saki by Hazrat Inayat Khan