The Secret of Freemasonry Seen in the Reflection of a Mirror - What do you see?

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon
And someone should've told the parishioners of Santa Maria Maddalena in Venice too. And even over the front entrance for good measure!

Ah, I did say in the last 100-150 years though. Either way, it was built in 1222 and restored in 1780. The church was owned by the Balbo family who was a member of the Knights Templar… And go figure, the designer for the restoration Tommaso Temanza also designed Lodges…

And I would tell the parishioners of Santa Maria Maddalena if I could, but it seems no services are held there. It is only open on occasion for art galleries and showings… Which sucks.

www.slowtrav.com...
en.wikipedia.org...
translate.google.com... za
www.churchesofvenice.co.uk...

Originally posted by Kyobosha
But, that doesn’t mean one didn’t affect society while alive nor does it mean you won’t leave a ‘lasting impression’ after you’ve passed.

He did not say 'lasting impression', he was implying that there was a current operation by Masons to subvert finance and government.

Originally posted by Kyobosha
In my personal view, Satan is not and will never be the supreme being. However, this does not change the fact that there are people out there who believe the opposite. There are beliefs out there that say Satan (Lucifer) is the supreme being.

The viewpoint of nearly all Theistic Satanists use the historical Satan of the Bible so this would therefore preclude Satan from being a Supreme Being.

Originally posted by Kyobosha
Personally I don’t see how nothing is gained yet it is expanded. What would be the point of the additional degrees, levels, or titles if absolutely nothing is gained?

An example:

In the Entered Apprentice Degree the candidate is admonished to be true to his country. In the Scottish Rite where a ficitious encounter between George Washington and Benedict Arnold takes place where this tenent is enacted. Arnold feel he did not betray his country or his Masonic oath but in the end Washington convinces him otherwise. This is the extent of the 'expansion' of the Blue Lodge Degrees.

The reason I put knowledge in quotes is because I was not referring to one becoming necessarily academically smarter, but they do have a deeper ‘understanding’ of their faith, morality and the craft.

As I explained, the knowledge is just an expansion, via the morality play, of what one has already learned.

Frankly, if I were also a 32nd degree Mason and saw all of them, I’d be kinda pissed that guy is a 32nd degree Mason. But that’s me

Most Scottish Rite Masons never see all 29 Degrees as some are very infrequently enacted.

Originally posted by Kyobosha
Well, last I checked, if the Roosevelt’s were Christian, then they would now be in Heaven. And if they were in Heaven, they wouldn’t be participating in the Séance’s seeing as how the Christian God doesn’t like pagan rituals. That’s why the séance thing concerns me that they may not have truly been saved.

Since Hillary Clinton claimed to be holding a seance with the spirit of Eleanor Roosevelt I have serious doubts on their veracity.

My friend, it is not a Christian symbol. “Oh but the triangle represents the Holy Trinity, and the eye represents the eye of God.” This is the explanation I get all the time. BUT if you do your research as any diligent person would do (this goes for Christians/non-Christians alike), you will find the true meanings of the triangle and the eye.

The paiting if Christ was ornemented with the Eye of Providence because it was a Christian painting and the symbol was a Christian one. There is no other explanation.

First, the triangle was very prominent in Egypt and represented the sacred number 3, perfection, power, and deity. Second, the eye which was also very prominent in Egypt represented the eye of horus meaning protection, royal power, and good health. Combine these (Triangle = 3 + deity) (Eye = protection + good health (Psalm 33:18,19)), and you get your so called Eye of Providence. This symbol is an abomination from Egyptian symbols that has been falsely given Christian overtones.

I am not disputing the origins of these symbols. The combination of the two leads to an alltogether new symbol which was used by Christians (and still is) to represent the Trinity.

reply to post by Kyobosha

He'd have to write a book to answer these questions fully.

Originally posted by Kyobosha
We are now saved by FAITH not WORKS.

You must have both, not just one or the other. You should have used "and" not "or".

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by Kyobosha
We are now saved by FAITH not WORKS.

And did not James say:

Faith Without Works Is Dead - What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works?

Man it gets frustrating when things are taken out of context, doesn't it?

If you actually studied the Book of James you will understand what the passage means. This does not mean that you must do works to be saved. What it is saying is that if you were truly saved, your heart would reflect such. You will have the desire to do the works Jesus preached in the New Testament.

Originally posted by Kyobosha
Yes, see my explanation in my previous post. Not to mention all of the Baptist, Presbyterian, Lutheran, Methodist, and non denominational churches that don't have that symbol. You most certainly claim it is still a Christian symbol today.

I had a feeling you would minimize my first example. Please feel free to look up Shadow Mountain Community Church in San Diego, California.

They happen to be a nice group of Jesus-worshipping, died-in-the-wool Evangelical Baptists. They believe in all the good stuff; tribulation, testifying, literal Bible interpretation, etc.

Oh, and they happen to have a gigantic Eye of Providence above the Minister's Pulpit.

Is this one good enough for you or are you going to continue to deny that 'real' Christians still use this symbol?

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by Kyobosha
But, that doesn’t mean one didn’t affect society while alive nor does it mean you won’t leave a ‘lasting impression’ after you’ve passed.

He did not say 'lasting impression', he was implying that there was a current operation by Masons to subvert finance and government.

This is my last post on this because i think we all agree this argument is frivolous. Anyways. A person who has passed can have an affect on current society. Rules, regulations, policies etc. Similar argument though to "it is the previous presidents fault".

Originally posted by Kyobosha
Man it gets frustrating when things are taken out of context, doesn't it?

Speaking of frustrating your attitiude makes it sound like you have the only legitimate interpretation of the Bible that humanity should be using.

If you actually studied the Book of James you will understand what the passage means. This does not mean that you must do works to be saved. What it is saying is that if you were truly saved, your heart would reflect such. You will have the desire to do the works Jesus preached in the New Testament.

Jesus preached the golden rule, which is exactly what I try to adhere to.

Originally posted by Kyobosha
This is my last post on this because i think we all agree this argument is frivolous. Anyways. A person who has passed can have an affect on current society. Rules, regulations, policies etc. Similar argument though to "it is the previous presidents fault".

I do not disagree. He was however implying a current and contempraneous operation by Masons to subvert the world's finances and governments. It is very hard to do this when you are room temperature.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by Kyobosha
In my personal view, Satan is not and will never be the supreme being. However, this does not change the fact that there are people out there who believe the opposite. There are beliefs out there that say Satan (Lucifer) is the supreme being.

The viewpoint of nearly all Theistic Satanists use the historical Satan of the Bible so this would therefore preclude Satan from being a Supreme Being.

One would think but that's not true, they believe Satan is a deity. Some even believe he is on an equal level to the supreme being and has a chance to win the war. There are many varieties within theistic satanism.

Originally posted by Kyobosha
One would think but that's not true, they believe Satan is a deity.

Those, by self-definition, refer to themselves as Setians or Enkians. The following site can elaborate further.

Originally posted by Kyobosha

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by Kyobosha
In my personal view, Satan is not and will never be the supreme being. However, this does not change the fact that there are people out there who believe the opposite. There are beliefs out there that say Satan (Lucifer) is the supreme being.

The viewpoint of nearly all Theistic Satanists use the historical Satan of the Bible so this would therefore preclude Satan from being a Supreme Being.

One would think but that's not true, they believe Satan is a deity. Some even believe he is on an equal level to the supreme being and has a chance to win the war. There are many varieties within theistic satanism.

But do any of them (and if so, identify their sect [with links to believable citations and not out-there, wackadoodle sites) claim that Satan CREATED all that is, was alone and present before time existed? Because Freemasons have to believe in an almighty Being, CREATOR of everything.

Hence can you explain how a Freemason can honour and pray to a being who does not fit that description of having been Supreme since before time, who IS (notice the tense) Supreme and do so without lying and dishonouring his obligation and oath?

Fitz

reply to post by Fitzgibbon


isn't it a belief of gnosticism, or some forms of it, that the supreme creator of the universe, or maybe it is of this planet and its creatures, is not very nice? The idea of that is somewhat mimicked, in the old testament god , and sumerian stuff, and maybe the conceptual creation of satan... Free masonry is seemingly about overcoming the imperfections of mans humble nature in the material world, and ever striving toward the potential perfection and potential potential of this same, could be imperfect man.... man can be a lump of trash, or he can accomplish unnumbered incredible tasks, and experience wonder, love and joy... you believe what makes man strive towards his potential is his will, his spirit,... it needs to be maintained, and known ( know they self) and it needs to do the knowing, to work towards understanding, everything man does comes from his own conscious will... i drifted off in thought, but Im kinda curious of the first sentence I asked what is the overlying nature of belief regarding the universe,,, it is not gnostic? or is it maybe the universe and earthly life have different creators? or it is no doubt that there is the one uniform source of creation,, and the effects of mans existence, the never ending lessons he must come in contact with, face, and understand as man grows individually and progressively with his community,, are directly from the existence of the universe,,, and were laid as important and necessary factors for spiritual growth and physical experience and existence? the concepts, and questions, and problems..... how can they be experienced, addressed, pondered, invented,,, how can something know love, or value, unless they are a man on an earth\

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by Kyobosha
Well, last I checked, if the Roosevelt’s were Christian, then they would now be in Heaven. And if they were in Heaven, they wouldn’t be participating in the Séance’s seeing as how the Christian God doesn’t like pagan rituals. That’s why the séance thing concerns me that they may not have truly been saved.

Since Hillary Clinton claimed to be holding a seance with the spirit of Eleanor Roosevelt I have serious doubts on their veracity.

She did attempt to.

My friend, it is not a Christian symbol. “Oh but the triangle represents the Holy Trinity, and the eye represents the eye of God.” This is the explanation I get all the time. BUT if you do your research as any diligent person would do (this goes for Christians/non-Christians alike), you will find the true meanings of the triangle and the eye.

The paiting if Christ was ornemented with the Eye of Providence because it was a Christian painting and the symbol was a Christian one. There is no other explanation.

Respectfully, I disagree. We are falsely led to believe it is a Christian Symbol. Yes, symbols are reused all the time. Yes, some Christians used the symbol and truly believed it reflected the Holy Trinity. But as Manley P. Hall said:

"In a single figure a symbol may both reveal and conceal, for to the wise the subject of the symbol is obvious, while to the ignorant the figure remains inscrutable.” —Manly P. Hall, The Secret Teachings of All Ages, p. 20

First, the triangle was very prominent in Egypt and represented the sacred number 3, perfection, power, and deity. Second, the eye which was also very prominent in Egypt represented the eye of horus meaning protection, royal power, and good health. Combine these (Triangle = 3 + deity) (Eye = protection + good health (Psalm 33:18,19)), and you get your so called Eye of Providence. This symbol is an abomination from Egyptian symbols that has been falsely given Christian overtones.

I am not disputing the origins of these symbols. The combination of the two leads to an alltogether new symbol which was used by Christians (and still is) to represent the Trinity.

I understand and agree Christians have used the symbol, I'm not arguing that. Even though it is used in a Christian context doesn't mean the origins can be forgotten or nullified; if you consider the origin, it is not a symbol that respects God. In that respect, it is not a Christian symbol.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by Kyobosha
Yes, see my explanation in my previous post. Not to mention all of the Baptist, Presbyterian, Lutheran, Methodist, and non denominational churches that don't have that symbol. You most certainly claim it is still a Christian symbol today.

I had a feeling you would minimize my first example. Please feel free to look up Shadow Mountain Community Church in San Diego, California.

They happen to be a nice group of Jesus-worshipping, died-in-the-wool Evangelical Baptists. They believe in all the good stuff; tribulation, testifying, literal Bible interpretation, etc.

Oh, and they happen to have a gigantic Eye of Providence above the Minister's Pulpit.

Is this one good enough for you or are you going to continue to deny that 'real' Christians still use this symbol?

Ah, so I'm sure you were ready for this rebuttal as well though I'm sure it'll do nothing to sway you. Then again I'm sure you think I'm pretty hard headed

In the picture you see a large gold circle with a red circle inside that. There is also a cross and small red circle at the center of the cross. Finally, there is an open Bible below that. There is no eye or triangle (however it does appear to look like one). One question for you though, are you now arguing that these symbols combined reflects the true meaning of the eye of providence? In other words, you say the eye of providence doesn't mean what the Egyptian symbols meant because they are combined for a new meaning, but because the circles, cross and Bible combined looks like the eye of providence its meaning is as such?

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by Kyobosha
Man it gets frustrating when things are taken out of context, doesn't it?

Speaking of frustrating your attitiude makes it sound like you have the only legitimate interpretation of the Bible that humanity should be using.

I guess I pushed your buttons I never said I have the only legitimate interpretation. I'm not the only one who thinks this way, many people and scholars agree too. I am not claiming to know everything in any way, shape or form.

If you actually studied the Book of James you will understand what the passage means. This does not mean that you must do works to be saved. What it is saying is that if you were truly saved, your heart would reflect such. You will have the desire to do the works Jesus preached in the New Testament.

Jesus preached the golden rule, which is exactly what I try to adhere to.

That's great! So do I! Don't forget the other teachings in the New Testament though. I find those to be helpful too

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon

Originally posted by Kyobosha

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by Kyobosha
In my personal view, Satan is not and will never be the supreme being. However, this does not change the fact that there are people out there who believe the opposite. There are beliefs out there that say Satan (Lucifer) is the supreme being.

The viewpoint of nearly all Theistic Satanists use the historical Satan of the Bible so this would therefore preclude Satan from being a Supreme Being.

One would think but that's not true, they believe Satan is a deity. Some even believe he is on an equal level to the supreme being and has a chance to win the war. There are many varieties within theistic satanism.

But do any of them (and if so, identify their sect [with links to believable citations and not out-there, wackadoodle sites) claim that Satan CREATED all that is, was alone and present before time existed? Because Freemasons have to believe in an almighty Being, CREATOR of everything.

Hence can you explain how a Freemason can honour and pray to a being who does not fit that description of having been Supreme since before time, who IS (notice the tense) Supreme and do so without lying and dishonouring his obligation and oath?

Fitz

Some do believe he is supreme. Agustusmasonicus posted a good link.

i can see leo taxil still alive & well & feeding the mushrooms