The Devil's Chord: The conspiracy to open the portal of consciousness and mystery of the octave

You're wondering if the octave as hertz is real or not or whether the octave should be defined by the spiral of fifths expanding the octave value or decreasing it....but the real issue is the noise between the two and the subharmonic beats as a significant amplitude resonance.

No, I don't wonder that at all. I asked a simple question and as has been the problem consistently through this thread, your answers are so cluttered. Forget this nonsense of 'hertz are measured in time and as the frequency goes up time reverses into zero amplitude phase reduction bipolar flippity doo'. Really.

Ok, time, let's say a second. Let's all agree on a second. Now, two frequencies occur, let's say 440hz and 660hz at the same time in that second. Still a second right?, nothing up my sleeve as you might say. Time went nowhere but a second forward. Keep it simple.

The octave is not, nor should it ever be determine by a spiral of fifths, Pythagorean ratios, blah blah. It is so simple and you consistently complicate it with woo. An octave is exactly double or half of any given frequency. It stands alone. A fifth of that note can be found in the third overtone as nature itself gives us. No ratios, just is.

Now if you could answer my question - do you agree with the above statement about the octave? Hint: it is a yes/no

Originally posted by UncleV

You're wondering if the octave as hertz is real or not or whether the octave should be defined by the spiral of fifths expanding the octave value or decreasing it....but the real issue is the noise between the two and the subharmonic beats as a significant amplitude resonance.

No, I don't wonder that at all. I asked a simple question and as has been the problem consistently through this thread, your answers are so cluttered. Forget this nonsense of 'hertz are measured in time and as the frequency goes up time reverses into zero amplitude phase reduction bipolar flippity doo'. Really.

Ok, time, let's say a second. Let's all agree on a second. Now, two frequencies occur, let's say 440hz and 660hz at the same time in that second. Still a second right?, nothing up my sleeve as you might say. Time went nowhere but a second forward. Keep it simple.

The octave is not, nor should it ever be determine by a spiral of fifths, Pythagorean ratios, blah blah. It is so simple and you consistently complicate it with woo. An octave is exactly double or half of any given frequency. It stands alone. A fifth of that note can be found in the third overtone as nature itself gives us. No ratios, just is.

Now if you could answer my question - do you agree with the above statement about the octave? Hint: it is a yes/no

A second is measured by PI which is from the Solar Calendar:

I have been tempted to make a comparison with the cycle of fifths and the Platonic Year in spite of the differences in unite. It is in conflict with basic scientific principle to mix different set of units such as years and notes. This bold assumption have caused some legitimate reaction from readers. Dennis Rossi writes, that precession of the equinoxes was discovered in China at a later date. It is attributed to Yu Xi in 320 CE. He found a value of about 72 arc seconds per year or two times the value found by Hipparchus, the Greek astronomer. However, "astronomers as early as the Han era noted that winter solstice shifted with respect to lunar lodges". I did tried to calculate the cycle of fifths with a lunar year instead of solar year but the numbers did not fit anyway. So far I am not able to produce a valid explanation of how the ancient Chinese did tuned their fundamental tone, Kung, to the Platonic Year.

In contrast to the Lunar Calendar -- Check out the Sound of Silence for more details

Frequencies not expressed in hertz Even higher frequencies are believed to occur naturally, in the frequencies of the quantum-mechanical wave functions of high-energy (or, equivalently, massive) particles, although these are not directly observable, and must be inferred from their interactions with other phenomena. For practical reasons, these are typically not expressed in hertz, but in terms of the equivalent quantum energy, which is proportional to the frequency by the factor of Planck's constant.

So the noncommutative time-frequency uncertainty is not measured in Hertz.

The noncommutative value of the Perfect Fifth and Perfect Fourth are not measured in Hertz either.

That is a common misconception. 1 Hz = 1 of anything / second Most people automatically assume: 1 Hz = 1 full cycle / second The unit "Hz" does not specify a unit for its numerator. Therefore, google will automatically convert Hz with a 1:1 ratio to any unit / second. You must specify a numerator for Hz if you wish for google not to assume your units. For example, enter "360 degrees * Hz to radians per second" into google. As you can see, we have specified a unit (degrees) for the numerator, and google handles it accordinly, yielding the decimal form of 2pi.

So the Perfect Fifth and Perfect Fourth are ratios -- without a full cycle as a numerator -- so the Perfect Fifth and Perfect Fourth do not specify what the ratio is measuring.

They are noncommutative and also "yin and yang" -- and so are the secret to infinite resonance as no one frequency nor one time standard (like seconds or a radian).

This means that the fundamental particles seem to carry a "personal-clock" which shows the "proper time" in their own frame, a "local standard of time" irrespective of their motion with respect to any observer anywhere in the universe and they live only according to this local clock. This requires that the fundamental particles must have some periodicity within their structure which helps them to reckon time in their own proper frames. [...] POSTULATE I: Every micro particle is endowed with two types of motion, an Internal Motion and an External Motion. The velocities, kinetic energies and momenta of these particles that we normally observe and measure in our laboratories are only those corresponding to their external motion.[...] POSTULATE IV: The magnitude of the instantaneous velocity of the particle, which is the resultant of its internal and external velocities, is always equal to 'c', the velocity of light in free space.[...] When a particle (say, an electron) is "at rest", it has no external motion but according to postulate I, it has internal motion. This is a circular motion with a radius ao and instantaneous velocity 'c', the velocity of light in air or vacuum. Thus the fundamental particles in this model does not have a state of rest as defined in the classical mechanics.[...] Elementary particles are generally assumed to comprise at least two constituents. These constituents have no mass and orbit each other with the speed of light. If now an elementary particle is set to motion, but its constituents still have to maintain the speed of light in relation to a fixed reference frame, the orbital frequency is reduced in the way predicted by the theory of relativity. This behaviour propagates to any higher structure in motion....What is intriguing is that matter’s most basic building blocks, the elementary particles, all have non-zero spin, intrinsic angular momentum, which seems to imply that they all must have some sort of intrinsic dynamics. Hypothetical structures which do not have internal dynamics, such as point particles and hard spheres, do not exist. So what is matter really made of then? In the Dirac theory, the electron is like electromagnetic energy quivering at light speed, just like a photon in a box [5]. If really so, matter is light. [...]You would have to define one revolution of the windmill as "one second" no matter how fast or slow it revolved. Indeed, if you tried to measure the speed of the wind using a windmill as a clock you will always get the same result-- i.e. a constant speed. If all clocks are, in fact, made up of "helicoid particles," then that means that the motions of the clocks are an amplified version of the motions of the particles, so clocks spin slower when the particles that make them up spin slower. When the particles slow down, the clocks slow down. Because all sub-atomic particles "spin" in electromagnetic fields the way that windmills spin in the wind, the speed of propagation of any electromagnetic field (i.e. the speed of light) is constant.

What is "the second" when time is relative?

reply to post by fulllotusqigong

So then when this thread discussed the golden ratio -- I pointed out that in chaos nonlinear resonance the natural rational fractions are considered too powerful -- they resonate too much. So the Golden Ratio is used since it is the slowest to geometrically converge.

But when talking about consciousness as alchemy we are not talking about geometry converging -- instead it's an infinite process of no beginning and no ending.

To clarify, there is a convergence to create mass... This is what our reality including music is based on. Adobe Photoshop 'snap-to' guides were cited as example of geometric convergence. Now the infinite cycles vector-based structures. This being the system residing within consciousness.

You might break down framework for once, or you're just going to end up repeating yourself as we've already witnessed.

And to be honest... Meditating for months in a seated position where no one eats, sleeps, or drinks isn't practical considering our World is not at the stage of extended leisure.

reply to post by UncleV


What's being conveyed is time as frequency is non-existent (i.e. illusion). It's more or less a tradition we play out in our minds in response to a 'shutter' devising frame rate for lack of a better term.

Think along the lines of a flipbook animation happening at once.

Originally posted by Americanist
reply to post by fulllotusqigong

 

So then when this thread discussed the golden ratio -- I pointed out that in chaos nonlinear resonance the natural rational fractions are considered too powerful -- they resonate too much. So the Golden Ratio is used since it is the slowest to geometrically converge.

But when talking about consciousness as alchemy we are not talking about geometry converging -- instead it's an infinite process of no beginning and no ending.

To clarify, there is a convergence to create mass... This is what our reality including music is based on. Adobe Photoshop 'snap-to' guides were cited as example of geometric convergence. Now the infinite cycles vector-based structures. This being the system residing within consciousness.

You might break down framework for once, or you're just going to end up repeating yourself as we've already witnessed.

And to be honest... Meditating for months in a seated position where no one eats, sleeps, or drinks isn't practical considering our World is not at the stage of extended leisure.

edit on 8-3-2012 by Americanist because: (no reason given)

According to the theory of relativity and according to observations, adding movement to any massive object makes it more massive. Some portion of the massiveness of any moving object must therefore be due only to movement. All the components of mass are in a jumble of related motion. Protons, neutrons, electrons, atoms, and molecules comprise mass; they all vibrate and orbit and whiz around inside of mass. So rest mass can only be imagined, never really measured, but most scientists assume that there is a fundamental kind of massiveness called rest mass. So, now we have massiveness which is due only to movement, and another fundamental kind of mass called rest mass. We have a real problem now. How can we tell the difference between movement mass and rest mass? What fundamental thing can we measure so that we can say for sure that this is movement mass and this is rest mass. We might measure the overall relative movement of a chunck of mass; calculate what mass would be due to that movement; subtract that from the total mass and say what's left is rest mass. But then what about the vibration of the molecules; that's movement. What about the electrons whizzing about protons and such. All those movements can't really be known except, maybe, in a statistical sense. But wait; is this even reasonable? Probably not! It is not reasonable in nature that there could be two fundamentally different kinds of massiveness. We know for sure that we have mass that is due only to movement. However, we do not know and can never measure, that kind of mass known as rest mass. Maybe it is that all of massiveness is really due only to the movement of some fundamental thing in nature. With that idea we are off the hook. Everything now makes sense. We have only one kind of mass; it is comprised only of the movement of some fundamental thing in nature.

Consciousness is Light-awareness. Emptiness is the eternal movement of light measured by time-frequency uncertainty bending space as energy-mass

There is another law of conservation that is required when doing mechanics, conservation of momentum. It is somewhat variable because the same amount of momentum can be found in either a small mass with a high velocity or a large mass with a low velocity. The amount of energy is different between the first example and the next. The exception to this case occurs with elementary particles that are massless. The photon is one of these particles. In this case a photon with twice the energy has twice the momentum, E=cp. If this law could be applied to all particles it would greatly simplify particle physics. Unfortunately, a particle with rest mass can have a variable amount of momentum, just like our everyday experience would tell us. A thought experiment is useful in potentially changing this view. [...] One result of using momentum formulas is that it shows that mass is not a fundamental property. Momentum is fundamental. For quantum physics, momentum, p and dimension, x are fundamental. (Note: this x implies all dimensions, normal and hyperspace ones, it is different from above where x referred specifically to a normal space dimension. Historical use of x in both of these cases may lead to some confusion. It is hoped that the context they are used makes it clear if x is a general dimension or the normal space dimension.) In fact, special and general relativity effects will be shown to derive from quantum physics. Lorentz contraction and a mass's effect of curving space, creating gravity, are basically the same things. Both effects derive from x p = n h / 2 . A new physical law is postulated: All known particles are elements of momentum moving at a velocity c. This is the result of extending a quantum theory formula for massless particles to all particles, p=h/2l . The new postulate is known to be true for photons. They have no mass, move at the speed of light and have momentum. At first, the new postulate seems to be untrue for particles with a rest mass. The momentum associated with a particle has a value directly related to the particle's velocity. This statement seems true because the present definition of momentum, p, includes only the three normal spatial dimensions, x, y, z. This new postulate applies for p traveling along all dimensions, including hyperspace ones. The value of a particle's momentum in hyperspace, its rest momentum, is just a particle's mass times the speed of light, p=m0c. This extension is based on special relativity and uses SR equation for mass. [...]

What one also finds is that the algebraic time dependent equations do not contain the quantum potential explicitly. Recall it is this strange potential that carries the non-local implications for entangled particles. However the potential re-appears when we project onto the shadow manifold. Thus it is not an intrinsic property of the quantum system but only arises from the projection. In this sense it shares a property with the gravitational potential which arises when the geodesics of curved space-time are projected into a flat space-time. The big difference is that gravitation is universal whereas each quantum potential only applies to its own group of entangled particles. Particles not involved in this entanglement do not see the quantum potential of this particular group.

Phase Space Description of Quantum Mechanics and Non-commutative Geometry: Wigner-Moyal and Bohm in a wider context

Here rather than starting with an a priori given phase space manifold, we use the algebra of operators to abstract the underlying manifold. This works beautifully when the algebra is commutative but not when in is non-commutative. In this case there is no unique underlying manifold, but we are forced to introduce the concept of “shadow manifolds”. This seems to be exactly what is happening when we project the algebraic form of the dynamical equations into a subalgebra, the choice of the projection determining which shadow manifold is being chosen. All this supports the notion that the geometry underlying quantum mechanics is a non-commutative geometry [16]. It fits neatly into the philosophical framework of the implicate/explicate order introduced by Bohm [17].

Originally posted by DenyObfuscation
reply to post by fulllotusqigong

 

The commutative property in math has nothing to do with intervals in a musical scale. To call the relationship between two different intervals noncommutative is as relevant as pointing out the fact that neither interval possesses even a single flavor of the skittles rainbow. Why would you do this?

edit on 8-3-2012 by DenyObfuscation because: typing while levitating

The commutative property is necessary in order to create the equations for equal-tempered tuning. Those equations originate in the discovery of incommensurability from music ratios.

I have given the links and discussed in detail how the music ratios are the secret to the Greek Miracle of discovering incommensurability -- the irrational magnitude -- based on the "arithmetic mean times harmonic mean = geometric mean" equation.

So arithmetic mean and harmonic mean are the Perfect Fifth and Perfect Fourth converted to a commutative value -- this means the frequency can not be measured as a fraction of one -- the fraction of 2/3 must be doubled to 4/3 for the mathematics to work out. This violates the inversion of frequency and wavelength -- so it is a secret "bait and switch" conversion from noncommutative math to commutative math.

In mathematics, a binary operation is commutative if changing the order of the operands does not change the end result...In mathematics, an operand is the object of a mathematical operation, a quantity on which an operation is performed.[1]....The Egyptians used the commutative property of multiplication to simplify computing products.[6][7] Euclid is known to have assumed the commutative property of multiplication in his book Elements.[8]

If C to G is 2:3 then G to C is 3:2 -- that is commutative.

If C to G is 2:3 then G to C is 3:4 - that is noncommutative by number.

If F to C is 2:3 then C to G is 3:2 -- that is noncommutative by geometry.

So you stated that the C was a different octave -- but this is not true.

If G to C is 4:3 then C to G is 2:3 -- it's the "same" C and it's noncommutative.

According to the uncertainty principle of Heisenberg, if the two operators representing a pair of variables do not commute, then that pair of variables are mutually complementary, which means they cannot be simultaneously measured or known precisely. For example, the position and the linear momentum of a particle are represented respectively (in the x-direction) by the operators x and (ħ/i)d/dx (where ħ is the reduced Planck constant). This is the same example except for the constant (ħ/i), so again the operators do not commute and the physical meaning is that the position and linear momentum in a given direction are complementary.

In quantum mechanics what we do have is a field algebra defined in terms of the operators. Notice further that all the symmetries of the system are carried by the operators. What we do not have is the properties of the manifold, i.e. the phase space that can carry this algebraic structure. Can we obtain the properties of this manifold from the algebra? This is where we hit a snag. If we have a non-commutative structure then there is no single, unique underlying manifold.

Originally posted by Mary Rose

Originally posted by Mary Rose

Instead of (from your OP):

Originally posted by fulllotusqigong
Then I discovered the Actual Matrix Plan conspiracy based on the same conspiracy -- corroborating my discovery -- only supporting it.

Originally posted by Mary Rose
Did you mean to say:

"Then I discovered the Actual Matrix Plan conspiracy based on the same conspiracy -- corroborating my discovery."

OR, perhaps you meant to say what you said, and what you were saying was, your discovery was 100% corroborated by the Actual Matrix Plan - no exceptions?

I wish I could lie to you but you did indeed discover a very valid paradox in what I wrote and I meant it to be a paradox. Congratulations.

Now understanding the paradox I wrote is another issue. If you want to study "determinate reflection" of Zizek and the "double bind" of Bateson -- by all means -- but it's not an easy task. Both Zizek and Bateson require multiple reads to understand.

Yes grammatic structure is tied to logic. So I agree that according to standard grammatic structure what I wrote does not make sense -- but what I wrote is not standard logic and so I used non-standard grammar. I think the same principle applies to nonwestern cultures using nonstandard grammar - just as nonWestern tuning is preferred -- i.e. the Blues music is preferred against the logarithmic tuning just as "ebonics" is preferred or whatever pidgin dialects of English. More directly the Tritone Paradox shows pitch perception is based on the dialect of English spoken -- tied to emotional inflection and probably visual perception. This is tied to the McGurk Effect:

reply to post by rwfresh


O.K. you asked for my book link but it's in the OP

Here is my book again -- free download

So on the one hand you ask -- what benefit do you get and then on the other hand you say that any such benefits are really an illusion -- so what is the real truth.

These two are not mutually exclusive -- and in actuality the real true as the Cosmic Mother -- or the Emptiness - is what then creates the "benefits" of practice.

One benefit is the secret of real love. My claim is that modern humans are cut off from real love because of this left-brain dominance. Music is right brain dominant and so increases the dopamine and serotonin through the vagus nerve -- but this practice as "trance music" then increases the oxytocin as love.

So then you say -- yes but love is just an emotion that a drug can create -- like a drug for oxytocin or some dopamine drug -- most of modern civilization is based on dopamine which is tied to violence. So the big problem with modern society is that the dopamine instead of switching to serotonin which then increases to oxytocin -- as trance music does -- what happens is that for the male the dopamine switches to cortisol as stress.

So then because the male does not know the secret of trance music then modern society -- since the beginning of Western civilization -- does not know the secret of real love.

So then you say you are not "sold" -- this attitude means you're wondering "what's in it for me?" as if you're a consumer at a Mall -- complaining that a product is not being presented to suit your desires. haha.

Well I'm not selling anything for one thing. You state that everything is an illusion -- but who is saying that? Your own mind is an illusion! So if you are truly honest that getting special powers is just an illusion -- you need to honestly ask who says it's an illusion.

Who are you not to listen to the source of your thoughts? haha. If you're really honest then you have no choice but to practice trance music as meditation because if you're claiming everything is an illusion that your own claims are also an illusion.

All you can do is listen to the source of your thoughts to find out if they are an illusion or not. Now if you do the practice then as you state whatever you experience will also be an illusion.

Exactly -- just keep practicing then -- if you can handle the energy. haha.

So if you really want to find out what is an illusion or not -- try meditating non-stop for a month taking no food, no water and no sleep. That's what qigong master Chunyi Lin did.

Now -- for me -- I did about 8 days taking just half a glass of water and then as the energy increased I only needed five hours of sleep. So I went back to work on Monday -- I was only working part-time since I was in graduate school -- but I had more energy than ever before after I went to the Level 3 retreat and I had still no food and next to no water for a week.

That day since I was working and not meditating - I also had telepathy, etc. -- but I decided to break my fast so I had some vegan tofu greens soup -- just a small bowl -- but there was sea salt in it so it tasted literally like poison! that's when I realized I truly was in a spiritual state of existence not amenable to mundane material reality.

So at that point I knew it was kind of pointless to fight against material reality because even a vegan soup was poison to me. haha. That's how purified my energy was.

So yeah everything is relative and everything put into words is hypocritical -- the only truth is silence as listening but this process of listening is not just some conceptual statement stating that everything is an illusion.

The process of listening is one of mind-body transformation -- so you know it is working if you can sit in full lotus.

It's very easy for the mind as ego to lie to the true self -- oh everything is an illusion. Big whoopie. haha.

If you can sit in full lotus that is definitely not an illusion. haha. It shows that your internal listening is having some results because the full lotus is the complementary opposite harmonics in action.

Listening is a process -- a practice -- and it's right brain dominant. So talking and writing are left-brain dominant. That's why I sit in full lotus at the computer also.

Originally posted by fulllotusqigong
So I agree that according to standard grammatic structure what I wrote does not make sense -- but what I wrote is not standard logic and so I used non-standard grammar.

I disagree. According to the interpretation of what you wrote that I posted this time, which hadn't dawned on me until then, having puzzled about it and asking repeatedly and getting unsatisfactory answers, there's nothing non-standard. It was just that it was easily misunderstood and it would have been better not to word the sentence that way.

The rest of your post about logic, paradox, a book that's hard to read, etc., etc. is irrelevant if you're agreeing that that's what you meant. Right after the sentence in question is the part about the Freemasons sitting in full lotus yoga position as pyramid power to create the All-Seeing Eye. That's where the point is conveyed.

Originally posted by Mary Rose

Originally posted by fulllotusqigong
So I agree that according to standard grammatic structure what I wrote does not make sense -- but what I wrote is not standard logic and so I used non-standard grammar.

I disagree. According to the interpretation of what you wrote that I posted this time, which hadn't dawned on me until then, having puzzled about it and asking repeatedly and getting unsatisfactory answers, there's nothing non-standard. It was just that it was easily misunderstood and it would have been better not to word the sentence that way.

The rest of your post about logic, paradox, a book that's hard to read, etc., etc. is irrelevant if you're agreeing that that's what you meant. The part about the Freemasons sitting in full lotus yoga position as pyramid power to create the All-Seeing Eye comes right after the sentence in question. That's where the point is conveyed.

Speaking of the All-Seeing Eye and the full lotus -- as pyramid power -- this is the harmonics of the Pyramid which corroborates my model of the ultrasound creating the strong ELF wave subharmonics: Sonic Stone Levitation

"""The Khufu Pyramid Stone Quartz Frequencies ... In the 1920's it was discovered that quartz crystals resonate at 32,768 khz. Seeing that the Great Pyramid of Khufu or Cheops Pyramid, is made mostly of limestone, which stone crystal matrix is mostly quartz, I developed a premise that the whole pyramid was set to resonance with some unique technique I named in the file We find that the quartz frequency 32,768 khz is a multiple of 2. We can then use base 2 and make two separate interpretations about the resonant frequencies of vibrating quartz. Moreover, we have an insight into what the operators of the Khufu pyramid might have experienced: Source of frequencies Divided down, we find the base number is 2 Multiples of 2 are 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256, 512, 1024, 2048, 4096, 8192, 16384, 32768, the fractal frequency of quartz.So we might conclude that quartz resonates as a binary crystal, meaning that its resonant frequency is a multiple of its base 2.""" """An engineer named Tom Danley who has an interest in sonic phenomena made some intriguing discoveries relating to the great pyramid, especially the Kings Chamber. He measured its dimensions and those of five rooms, (the so called relieving chambers) located above the Kings Chamber. He then installed powerful amplifiers and speakers inside the Kings Chamber, created sounds and measured the resulting standing frequencies generated within the five chambers. The frequency measured within the rooms was 16Hz, which is below the range of human hearing; from this he created a fascinating theory. This was: the dimensions of the pyramid, plus the materials from which it is made, combined with the empty sarcophagus within the kings chamber were designed for one specific purpose. This was to amplify whatever sounds were made within the Kings Chamber....Tom detected a distinct pattern to the frequencies; this pattern was identical to the tonal structure of the F-sharp chord. The ancient Egyptians in their texts tell us that they believed F-sharp to be the harmonic frequency of our planet. """

So there we get the octave doubling that has been discussed but as I have put forth -- the beats of the ultrasound frequency then creates a strong subharmonic at the ELF frequency which is the heart frequency that then opens up the pineal gland.

14. Nerves of the Heart Draw Us into the Borderland of Consciousness Undoubtedly the near-death conditions of danger, imperiled cerebral blood flow and cardio-respiratory crisis heighten cardio-respiratory afferent nerve activity. Autonomic nervous system afferent fibers transmit information from stretch, pressure, mechanical, and chemical receptors located within the heart, vascular and pulmonary systems. These impulses are conveyed to the brainstem principally by the vagus, but also by the glossopharygeal and trigeminal nerves. The cervical portion of the vagus is made up of approximately 80% visceral afferents (Agostoni et al., 1957). Vagal afferents alone robustly bring the brain into REM consciousness. Electrical stimulation of the vagus in animals triggers the visual, cortical and atonic physiological facets of REM consciousness (Puizillout and Foutz, 1976, Valdes- Cruz et al., 2002, Fernandez-Guardiola et al., 1999, Puizillout and Foutz, 1977, Foutz et al., 1974). The transition from waking to REM can be so brisk that it spawned the terms "reflex REM narcolepsy" (Puizillout and Foutz, 1977) and "narcoleptic reflex" (Valdes-Cruz et al., 2002). This rapid transition between conscious states is the very condition that in humans causes REM and waking consciousness to merge (Takeuchi et al., 1992). When the vagus nerve is stimulated in humans to treat epilepsy, REM intrudes into non-REM consciousness (Malow et al., 2001). Furthermore, the cardio-respiratory instability arising from an autoimmune attack on cardiac, vascular and respiratory autonomic nerve fibers in patients with Guillain-Barré syndrome leads to florid intrusion of REM consciousness (Cochen et al., 2005). How can the vagus nerve shift consciousness? Vagal afferents project upwards to synapse within the medullary nucleus tractus solitarius. From here, neural fibers rise to the pontine parabrachial nuclear complex (PBN) that is the principal relay for ascending cardio-respiratory afferents to the forebrain. In addition, the nucleus tractus solitarius and the PBN reciprocally connect with cholinergic REM structures (Semba and Fibiger, 1992, Quattrochi et al., 1998). The PBN region forms an intersection where neurons promoting and functioning specifically during REM consciousness (Datta et al., 1992, Datta and Hobson, 1994) intermingle with neurons participating in cardio-respiratory function (Chamberlin and Saper, 1992, Chamberlin and Saper, 1994). Although these relationships lead to a connection between fight-or-flight, consciousness, and cardio-respiratory crisis, the full story of vagal afferents and REM consciousness remains to be seen. What is clear is that through its nerves the heart can cause REM consciousness, thereby transporting consciousness to unexpected places.

So that's the C2C guest tonight -- Dr. Kevin Nelson - on the vagus nerve causing the REM visionary states of the brain from the heart

So we know that music activates the vagus nerve -- what I'm saying is that this process of music through complementary opposites then goes into the quantum realm of consciousness -- and amplifies it.

Like the Macrosonix technology -- the "cone horn" of the full lotus pyramid power works through the natural resonance of the overtones -- to vastly increase the amplitude (the lower body neurohormones) to create stronger electromagnetic power of the heart-brain connection.

I emailed Dr. Kevin Nelson about qigong master Chunyi Lin since Dr. Nelson asked people to email him -- as he relies on case studies.

reply to post by fulllotusqigong

If C to G is 2:3 then G to C is 3:2 -- that is commutative.

------- G
------ F- F
--- E - - - E
- D - - - - -- D
C- - - - - - - - C..... Same C same G

If C to G is 2:3 then G to C is 3:4 - that is noncommutative by number.

C
B
A
G
F
E
D
C ....... Same G different C's

So you stated that the C was a different octave -- but this is not true.

If G to C is 4:3 then C to G is 2:3 -- it's the "same" C and it's noncommutative.

If it's the same C then the G's are different.

Noncommutative is inapplicable to the repetitive use of symbols in the ascending scale. They do not maintain equivalent value.

reply to post by fulllotusqigong


Thanks for the link to your book again. Much appreciated! I thought the link was buried in the thread. Guess i should've looked at the OP.

"So on the one hand you ask -- what benefit do you get and then on the other hand you say that any such benefits are really an illusion -- so what is the real truth."

My truth or the Truth? Good question! It's what i am asking you. Not demanding an answer from you. Just asking what you believe the benefit is outside of the obvious spiritual/health benefits to an individual. If any. I think the benefits to self as ego are as plain as day. But we shouldn't confuse the idea that Truth somehow benefits from an individual's practice. You may be implying that consciously or unconsciously. Practice is not Truth. Although your theory and practice reveal some amazing understanding of the illusion we exist in/are part of, it's still in contrast of Reality which is Truth.

"One benefit is the secret of real love" "but this practice as "trance music" then increases the oxytocin as love"

Really? Real Love which is Truth? How is the secret expressed? Through the body? Consciousness? Are we able to discuss the event? I'm not sure what the importance of chemicals is except in respect to identifying the bodies RESPONSE to it. This might help one realize what love isn't. We can probably agree that the carrier shouldn't be confused with the signal.

"So then you say -- yes but love is just an emotion that a drug can create" No not at all. I never said that. But i acknowledge that the left-brain dominant science will indefinitely strive to prove such an illusion by following ideas such as you stated above "Music is right brain dominant and so increases the dopamine and serotonin through the vagus nerve -- but this practice as "trance music" then increases the oxytocin as love." Love is not a result of a chemical reaction. It's the other way around right? I think we agree on this. Where we might not agree is that through practice your body is responding to a reflection of Love rather than actual Love.

"what happens is that for the male the dopamine switches to cortisol as stress" - a Right dominant brain would attempt to simply increase serotonin as a solution. But it's not a solution. Either through drugs or practice. Right dominance is no more preferable than Left dominance. Truth dominance would be best... which in Reality is not only the dominant.. It is the only.

'So then because the male does not know the secret of trance music then modern society -- since the beginning of Western civilization -- does not know the secret of real love.'

You see violence and struggle expressed only in Western civilization? Either you understand time is an illusion or you don't. You can't explain or express truth with delusional ideas.. that is what science is all about which i think is your point. But if you look back in time and think you see some evolution of dominance.. it's delusional. If time were really we'd have to admit that Right and Left interaction/dominance existed before the human brain developed.

"So then you say you are not "sold" -- this attitude means you're wondering "what's in it for me?" as if you're a consumer at a Mall -- complaining that a product is not being presented to suit your desires."

I never said that did I? But since you brought it up.. Sure i would love you tell me exactly how i can become True. But i would settle on having you admit it's not possible. Here's the deal, we can both admit freely that you personally have nothing to sell right? You've said it yourself. But it's not because you are giving something Real away for free. It's because you literally have nothing of value to give in the CONTEXT of Truth which is the subject here. And either do i. Not trying to pump my ego or deflate yours.. They are doing just fine on their own. 'For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them." If we can't get together and acknowledge the Truth we are pumping and dumping ideas. Which is fun too i guess.

"Your own mind is an illusion!" WHAT! REALLY!?! You got it. Who else's mind is illusion? Who else through practice runs the risk of deluding themselves otherwise? You got it! I will tell you something and this is the ultimate paradox. You will never, through practice or any will of your own become Real. And you will never stop trying. If "you" listen, delusion listens. If you practice, delusion practices. BUT NO NO NO! It can't be SO! It's all so REAL!

"Who are you not to listen to the source of your thoughts?" Same thing as you. A deluded self not listening. Or a deluded self listening. At this point we are zeroing in on the crux.. the paradox.

"if you're claiming everything is an illusion that your own claims are also an illusion." It's 'true'. My claims are delusional. You got it! Delusion can never beget Truth.

reply to post by fulllotusqigong


ran out of space for my self important delusional response.

"if you're claiming everything is an illusion that your own claims are also an illusion."

Delusion cannot beget Truth. Practice does not result in Truth. Practice is the result of Truth.

"All you can do is listen to the source of your thoughts to find out if they are an illusion or not. Now if you do the practice then as you state whatever you experience will also be an illusion."

Yes this is how it works. All of your thoughts are delusional. Same with mine. Including the delusional idea that practice or anything is making us more Real. But does that take away our absolute longing for Reality? Nope.
You seem to put some importance on seeing spirits, or astral projection, teleportation abilities etc. Not me. I don't discount them. Not at all. Like i said, absolutely "real" in the context of delusion. As real as the physical world.. not very.

But your left dominant brain insists that someone must believe in one or the other or both. "SOMETHING IS REAL and WE CAN EXPERIENCE IT!" No you can't. Reality isn't some product that you have the right to buy at the store with earnest points.. or practice points... or fasting points. The right-brain ethereal world experienced through practice or the left-brain material world. Both are equally delusional. I'm not the first to point this out. And although you may see a reflection of eternity in your practice you will inevitably return to a delusional state of time to tell others about it. Right? You are attracted to the Right brain because the Left is dominant here in the material world. You travel between them. You are not the container in which they exist. You are not the Truth that expresses them. At best you are a reflection of the Truth. Not to be confused with an expression of it.

"Exactly -- just keep practicing then -- if you can handle the energy. haha." - Is that energy better than dense ignorant matter? Only a salesman would insist it's so. What i definitely can't handle is the Truth. Not because of some failing of Truth's.. but because of the delusion that i am. It's inconsequential.

"So if you really want to find out what is an illusion or not -- try meditating non-stop for a month taking no food, no water and no sleep. That's what qigong master Chunyi Lin did."

Seeing illusion is easy! Being Real is impossible. Everything that is not Real is illusion and everything we can perceive (under ANY condition) is not Real. Get it? It's all you are capable of in the context of Reality so relax into the non-reality of relaxation!

"Now -- for me -- I did about 8 days taking just half a glass of water and then as the energy increased I only needed five hours of sleep. So I went back to work on Monday -- I was only working part-time since I was in graduate school -- but I had more energy than ever before after I went to the Level 3 retreat and I had still no food and next to no water for a week."

Cool, if you really want to trip out try fasting for 10 days on juice alone. Switch to master cleanse for 7 days and move into distilled water for another 7. After that drink only your own urine. Mid-stream. As much as you want for as long as you want. Over the course of the program spend at least 3 days a week with intensive sensory overload through trance dance. Use those plants that serve the purpose in which we are discussing during those intensive trance dance sessions. Or let them use you. It won't make a difference in which way it is understood. be sure to keep up your yoga/qi gong/body-energy practice throughout. You will experience all kinds of amazing things. non-Reality will melt away. Your body will become a light body and you will exist outside of time. Future, past and present will become one and project out of a single point which can be experienced as time travel. but understand for the sake of your own self-preservation in the material left-brain world, that what is revealed is another layer of delusion. You can melt into that non-reality.. but there is no benefit. If it feels good go for it. or don't.

"That day since I was working and not meditating - I also had telepathy, etc. -- but I decided to break my fast so I had some vegan tofu greens soup -- just a small bowl -- but there was sea salt in it so it tasted literally like poison! that's when I realized I truly was in a spiritual state of existence not amenable to mundane material reality."

I hear you. in 1998 i probably ate 180 days out of 365. I never didn't drink liquids. I was strong and limber. Slept about 4-5 hours a day but not in a 24hr cycle. And yeah for sure. There is no doubt.. some pretty 'amazing' experiences for lack of a better word.

Do you feel dirty after stating the process that lead to your experiences? That shame is from giving into the fear that drives us to use practice as validation

Ask a simple question...

A second is measured by PI which is from the Solar Calendar:

If we're going to take this route, dismissing simple, easily understood words like 'second' and 'hertz' and turning them into complicated and unclear concepts just for the sake of it then I'm going to have to insist that 90% of the words you use are null and void. Ratios can no longer be used, neither can 'phase' or 'amplitude' because nearly everything you utter can be broken down into some complicated blather. How can one measure anything if we don't set some simple standards? Mention harmonics? Nope sorry, why? Because how do you define harmonics without using frequency or time standards? You can vaguely allude to them but you can not define them otherwise.

You see, you continually talk about ratios but the system is flawed and has been from the birth of it. Ratios in sound only line up occasionally to perfect notes such as the fifth. If all you are saying is that our current tuning system is flawed and you have a better one, then I can respect that whether I agree or not. However, your ratios,etc.have always been flawed just like so many other things in our world - some old dude discovers a theory that is groundbreaking but with later development we find some flaws.

That's why I think everytime I bring up natural order harmonics, with simple to understand examples it gets dismissed as 'time is flippity floo'. The very nature of what I am saying is simple - through Mama Nature herself we have musical TRUTHS proven to us. In one naturally occurring note we can find the basis for a music system. Granted, as in our western temperament tuning, we purposely change these natural truths to work with what we are using but the truths still exist. Nature, in my humble opinion, gives us the real deal. So naturally occurring harmonics point the way.

Using ratios contains the problem that leaves us with the Pythagorean comma. Whether or not there is value in this 'comma' we could discuss but, the 'comma' is there because the system is flawed. Nature however is not. Through natural overtones we do not get every note in our western scale but using it for one root note gives us major thirds, fifths, octaves from which to build the next batch. This is neither western or eastern. It just is and unfortunately for you, it uses hertz/seconds to provide us with this information.

Could we agree, members of this thread that one second = one mississippi?

So, for the third time - do you agree that an octave is an exact doubling or halving of a root note?: YES/NO

Brief explanation of your answer is acceptable provided it contains no quotes, links or videos and is no more than two sentences long.

Noncommutative is inapplicable to the repetitive use of symbols in the ascending scale. They do not maintain equivalent value.

Thank you DenyO.

reply to post by fulllotusqigong


validation for Truth. We know Truth is validated eternally in and of itself.

"So yeah everything is relative and everything put into words is hypocritical -- the only truth is silence as listening but this process of listening is not just some conceptual statement stating that everything is an illusion."

Yes you are right. But everything is literally illusion/delusion. That is not some kind of value judgement. Making a delusional statement in the context of delusion is valueless.. If we understand that the only thing of any Real value is that which is Real. Which is Truth.

"The process of listening is one of mind-body transformation -- so you know it is working if you can sit in full lotus."

So i guess people with no legs or a crippled spine will have to evolve or re-incarnate first. Maybe that is the case.

"It's very easy for the mind as ego to lie to the true self -- oh everything is an illusion. Big whoopie. haha."

Yeah it is. What is impossible is for it to REALLY admit, and as a result KNOW that mind is delusional. That true self is not Truth. And yeah.. big whoopie.. everything is illusion but Truth, which we are not and never can be.. but it is hahahahahaha

"If you can sit in full lotus that is definitely not an illusion. haha. It shows that your internal listening is having some results because the full lotus is the complementary opposite harmonics in action."

Is truth sitting in a full lotus? Now that is delusional.

"Listening is a process -- a practice -- and it's right brain dominant. So talking and writing are left-brain dominant. That's why I sit in full lotus at the computer also. "

And you know what it's a great idea! That's why some people sell zafu for the express purpose of sitting full lotus in front of the 21st century idiot box! Anyway.. i am really grateful for your post. And in the context of time i think you've got some totally original and new insights to what is going on here in this non-reality. And i did buy the qigong book and i'm reading it and longing to practice because of this thread and particularly what you have said and presented. I find it inspiring and resonate with a lot of it. But i have to follow it, by nature to the person who is presenting the ideas because that is where the meaning comes from. You.

Peace!

reply to post by fulllotusqigong


This has already been discussed as the topic of spun density... I didn't coin the term, but it suits perfectly what's been mentioned elsewhere.

reply to post by rwfresh


Truth arrives as perception grows. Without a connection to each other the main role for individual behavior is observe, record, and translate forming better takes. Eventually the process cycles faster, becomes more fluid, and expansion is achieved via sacrifice... The act of giving is mirrored as understanding/ enlightenment.

reply to post by DenyObfuscation


You must be forgetting it's just a G-thing... Translated into non-standard: G-Thang!

Originally posted by Americanist
reply to post by rwfresh

 

Truth arrives as perception grows. Without a connection to each other the main role for individual behavior is observe, record, and translate forming better takes. Eventually the process cycles faster, becomes more fluid, and expansion is achieved via sacrifice... The act of giving is mirrored as understanding/ enlightenment.

Hey Americanist, "Truth arrives as perception grows" what you focus on comes into view. no doubt!

expansion of what? Truth? Or perception of it? You cannot give to something that is not without. 100% eternally whole. What is there to sacrifice? Giving is good when you have something Real to give. But as delusion/illusion, honesty may be the best practice.

Originally posted by rwfresh

Yes you are right. But everything is literally illusion/delusion. That is not some kind of value judgement. Making a delusional statement in the context of delusion is valueless.. If we understand that the only thing of any Real value is that which is Real. Which is Truth.

Truth is not put in words -- only through silence in meditation. Listening to the source of sound.

So i guess people with no legs or a crippled spine will have to evolve or re-incarnate first. Maybe that is the case.

Chunyi Lin has healed paralysis. As I mentioned the vagus nerve bypasses the spine. So anyone in a wheel chair can practice the small universe aka microcosmic orbit exercise. As I've said -- the best thing to do is get the $11 practice music c.d. that guides you through the 12 notes of the scale as mind/body transformation.

Yeah it is. What is impossible is for it to REALLY admit, and as a result KNOW that mind is delusional. That true self is not Truth. And yeah.. big whoopie.. everything is illusion but Truth, which we are not and never can be.. but it is hahahahahaha

Actually everyone is Born a Healer as Chunyi Lin says -- the truth of reality is the eternal love of the heart -- the heart is the secret "hole" to the consciousness of the universe. So when it's just mind yoga as the Brahmin Solar ritual priests practiced then they can lie easily about the truth -- if a person is relying on just book learning as elitist secret truth as in Solar religions that argue about theology -- this is based on imperialism and hierarchy -- not real truth.

So the original Christian bishop monks had to do the 40 day fast just like it was taught Jesus did but this reveals that reality is holographic -- so that other peoples' external pain is experienced internally of the person perceiving the truth of reality. So there is no "hierarchy" -- no higher astral realms, etc. -- the truth is nondual consciousness as the secret hole in the heart. So this is not a static realm but an eternal process of energy creation as love harmonic energy and light energy -- but the process is not light nor is it love -- the process is formless consciousness as the Emptiness -- the process of Silence or Mouna Samadhi -- listening.

Is truth sitting in a full lotus? Now that is delusional.

The full lotus is the tetrahedron pyramid power as the most simple and therefore most powerful three dimension geometry of complementary opposite harmonics. In the West we are taught that the tetrahedron is based on the equilateral irrational triangles -- but in reality Number is based on complementary opposites -- so the geometry resonates into the quantum holographic rainbow vortex light as consciousness and this process goes on eternally. So the perineum takes in the external electrochemical Lunar energy as "yin chi" and then the heart transforms the "yin chi" through the "yang chi" of the Solar blood electromagnetic energy -- and it is then transmitted back out externally through the pineal gland as the holographic rainbow entangled quantum biophoton energy -- the spirit consciousness.

And you know what it's a great idea! That's why some people sell zafu for the express purpose of sitting full lotus in front of the 21st century idiot box! Anyway.. i am really grateful for your post. And in the context of time i think you've got some totally original and new insights to what is going on here in this non-reality. And i did buy the qigong book and i'm reading it and longing to practice because of this thread and particularly what you have said and presented. I find it inspiring and resonate with a lot of it. But i have to follow it, by nature to the person who is presenting the ideas because that is where the meaning comes from. You.

Peace!

Yeah reading is left brain dominant -- so the practice is actually listening as music -- so it's best to get the practice C.D. and just practice the music. The half hour small universe 12 harmonic yin yang scale practice is $11 on the springforestqigong.com... website -- again I am not selling anything. I'm sure you can find it online for free somehow -- but the deal is that having the music practice c.d. is the best means of learning the philosophy. haha. It's a very excellent tool. You do learn through experience -- so yes I appreciate having the opportunity to share my research and to get critical feedback -- that's why I rely on free information exchange so I can learn from the critical feedback.