God's Judgment on homosexuality.

reply to post by CaptainNemo


You misunderstand what I am saying. I always agree that we must point out sin, and we must attempt to show the person, through scripture the error in their ways.

But to say conform to the bible or go to hell is not pointing out sin, nor does it love.

I point out to people all the time their sin. Especially Christians. But I do not point them towards fear but rather to love. I show them through scripture and logic how the path they are taking is leading towards destruction.

What most people fail to realize is almost everyone is on this path. The number of depressed, angry, selfish people in this world is incomprehensible. Where do you think these emotions come from? They come from not following what the father wants from you. If you follow the path of love you will be filled with Joy, even in the face of persecution.

People see punishment as something external. God’s punishment is much more internal than external. What Jesus is telling us is to empathies with the sinner, as we are sinners ourselves, so we know what it’s like to be caught up in sin. Through empathy we love, through love we lead. It is through love that we can help the sinner, not through fear and judgment.

They are already being tormented because of their sin. Why do I need to punish them even more by spreading fear and hate?

I make a challenge to everyone who reads this. What is your sin that you are caught up in? The next time you have a choice to commit that sin or walk away from it choose to walk away. Trust that God will give you the strength to stand up. If you can do this, you will be filled with Joy. Let your thirst for joy outweigh your passion for sin and your life will be filled with Joy. This is the promise made to those who overcome sin.

Originally posted by sacgamer25
You misunderstand what I am saying. I always agree that we must point out sin, and we must attempt to show the person, through scripture the error in their ways.

Only after you have eliminated your own sin my friend. Let he who has not sinned CAST THE FIRST STONE.

Don't be mislead.


With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by IAMIAM

Originally posted by sacgamer25
You misunderstand what I am saying. I always agree that we must point out sin, and we must attempt to show the person, through scripture the error in their ways.

Only after you have eliminated your own sin my friend. Let he who has not sinned CAST THE FIRST STONE.

Don't be mislead.


With Love,

Your Brother

I'm not misleading him. You can judge, bout know how to judge.

Originally posted by CaptainNemo
I'm not misleading him. You can judge, bout know how to judge.

Now you attempt to mislead me?

You cannot tell me what I can or cannot do.

You do not know where I come from or where I go.

You can only speak for you.

I do what my father sent me to do.

Here is your fruit back serpent.

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by IAMIAM

Originally posted by sacgamer25
You misunderstand what I am saying. I always agree that we must point out sin, and we must attempt to show the person, through scripture the error in their ways.

Only after you have eliminated your own sin my friend. Let he who has not sinned CAST THE FIRST STONE.

Don't be mislead.


With Love,

Your Brother

Showing someone that what they are doing is what is causing them harm is not casting a stone. I will be the last one to ever cast a stone trust me. If anyone ever thinks I am throwing a stone I am deeply sorry.

Let me provide an example of how I might help someone. Let’s say I know a person who is caught up in adultery. Like most sin of this nature people are looking for a way to satisfy themselves. Most people are dissatisfied and are looking for satisfaction. The evil one tells you that you will find satisfaction, in sex, money, drugs ext, but what you will find there is only more destruction.

So if this person I know is caught up in adultery I try to show him how he is in fact hurting everyone involved and most importantly himself. I explain to him that there are many more ways to find satisfaction that do not cause harm. I have empathy for him because he is stuck in sin, and I hope by my words of encouragement he will come out of his sin and find joy.

If I at some point get caught up in sin I hope he is there for me the way I was there for him. This is what it is supposed to be about. Each of us helping each other to avoid the temptations that lead to our emotional destruction. Joy is life, depression is destruction. Joy is found in doing what is right, depression is found in doing what is wrong. Only Joy will truly bring one to satisfaction.

At no point do I feel the need to threaten the adulterer or any sinner to hell. In many ways they are already there. If anything I am throwing them a rope to pull them out and not casting a stone to put them down.

reply to post by sacgamer25

But to say conform to the bible or go to hell is not pointing out sin, nor does it love.

I point out to people all the time their sin. Especially Christians. But I do not point them towards fear but rather to love. I show them through scripture and logic how the path they are taking is leading towards destruction.

You use double speak to say the same thing....

First off by saying peoples sin is leading to their destruction is pretty much a judgment call..the same as saying that there sinful life if unrepentant will lead to a life separated from God eternally if they choose to live out of gods will.

There is scripture and logic that speaks of hell as well. Now you can say to a rich person who is doing business selfishly,and only thinks of his pleasure,all you want about how his sin is leading him to destruction, but he doesn't give a darn what you say, because he is not feeling any destruction ..only the good life, and he cares not who he takes from to obtain it.

There are souls like this who will not respond to gentle persuasion and logic based on love.. but if God puts the fear of God into them, and shakes up their souls with a little dose of what they can expect if they don't change.. maybe that is a form of love ?

People see punishment as something external. God’s punishment is much more internal than external. What Jesus is telling us is to empathies with the sinner, as we are sinners ourselves, so we know what it’s like to be caught up in sin. Through empathy we love, through love we lead. It is through love that we can help the sinner, not through fear and judgment.

Thats where are you are wrong.. internally some have seared their conscience and they don't care one iota about how loving someone is ...as I explained above. Go ahead..walk up to a pimp that is driving a a 100, 000 car, who has girls and drugs , and is totally being idolized by all his so called friends ...and tell him his life is leading him into destruction and you can see he's hurting on the inside from all his sin, and he will laugh you out of his face.

Galatians 5:19-21 [19] The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; [20] idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions [21] and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Look at the scripture above.. what does it clearly say.. YOU WILL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD if you participate in these acts, without truly being sorry.

Now was Paul being unloving by telling people this.. or was he being honest? Are you going to accuse him of hate and judgement as well ?

They are already being tormented because of their sin. Why do I need to punish them even more by spreading fear and hate?

Was Paul spreading fear and hate with the above teaching I quoted to the Galatians? or was he warning them out of love? There are many sinners who are not being tormented at all by their sin, they are quite enjoying it actually.... so please..your argument makes no sense.

When I talk to people who were little bad asses as kids, and did things they knew were wrong, but thought it was cool or funny.. you know who they end up having the most respect for from their childhood?The ones who took them to task on what they did, and let them know in no uncertain terms what they could expect if they ever tried to pull that crap again. They had respect for the ones who scared the living crap out of them so they didn't dare do it again...because they knew they were doing something wrong and just didn't care.

Originally posted by IAMIAM

Originally posted by CaptainNemo
I'm not misleading him. You can judge, bout know how to judge.

Now you attempt to mislead me?

You cannot tell me what I can or cannot do.

You do not know where I come from or where I go.

You can only speak for you.

I do what my father sent me to do.

Here is your fruit back serpent.

With Love,

Your Brother

You not pertaining to you but in general.
You're delusional and cryptic as hell man.
But ok, kiwi preferably.?

Originally posted by gabby2011

Galatians 5:19-21 [19] The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; [20] idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions [21] and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Look at the scripture above.. what does it clearly say.. YOU WILL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD if you participate in these acts, without truly being sorry.

Says Paul...

11And it came to pass, as he went to Jerusalem, that he passed through the midst of Samaria and Galilee. 12And as he entered into a certain village, there met him ten men that were lepers, which stood afar off: 13And they lifted up their voices, and said, Jesus, Master, have mercy on us. 14And when he saw them, he said unto them, Go shew yourselves unto the priests. And it came to pass, that, as they went, they were cleansed. 15And one of them, when he saw that he was healed, turned back, and with a loud voice glorified God, 16And fell down on his face at his feet, giving him thanks: and he was a Samaritan. 17And Jesus answering said, Were there not ten cleansed? but where are the nine? 18There are not found that returned to give glory to God, save this stranger. 19And he said unto him, Arise, go thy way: thy faith hath made thee whole.

20And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Says Jesus...

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by CaptainNemo
You're delusional and cryptic as hell man.

I get this a lot my friend.

Why is the truth so misunderstood?

Originally posted by CaptainNemo
But ok, kiwi preferably.?

Kiwi is an excellent choice.



With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by gabby2011

There is scripture and logic that speaks of hell as well. Now you can say to a rich person who is doing business selfishly,and only thinks of his pleasure,all you want about how his sin is leading him to destruction, but he doesn't give a darn what you say, because he is not feeling any destruction ..only the good life, and he cares not who he takes from to obtain it.

I work with millionaires everyday. it is my job and trust me they are some of the most misrable, paranoid people I have ever met. On the outside they are very good at appearing satisfied. But I have yet to meet one millionaire that I would call either happy or satisfied.

People see punishment as something external. God’s punishment is much more internal than external. What Jesus is telling us is to empathies with the sinner, as we are sinners ourselves, so we know what it’s like to be caught up in sin. Through empathy we love, through love we lead. It is through love that we can help the sinner, not through fear and judgment.

Thats where are you are wrong.. internally some have seared their conscience and they don't care one iota about how loving someone is ...as I explained above. Go ahead..walk up to a pimp that is driving a a 100, 000 car, who has girls and drugs , and is totally being idolized by all his so called friends ...and tell Him his life is leading Him into destruction and you can see he's hurting on the inside from all His sin, and he will laugh you out of his face.

Again you are judging someone based on the outward appearance of happiness. Have you ever befriended a drug dealer or pimp? I have. And trust me their hunger for money and power have consumed them. But happiness they have not found.

Galatians 5:19-21 [19] The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; [20] idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions [21] and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Look at the scripture above.. what does it clearly say.. YOU WILL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD if you participate in these acts, without truly being sorry.

Now was Paul being unloving by telling people this.. or was he being honest? Are you going to accuse him of hate and judgement as well ?

They are already being tormented because of their sin. Why do I need to punish them even more by spreading fear and hate?

Was Paul spreading fear and hate with the above teaching I quoted to the Galatians? or was he warning them out of love? There are many sinners who are not being tormented at all by their sin, they are quite enjoying it actually.... so please..your argument makes no sense.

Paul was not directing his commit at anyone. He was saying that anyone who allows sin to consume them and refuses to come to repentance will not inherit the Kingdom of God. This is a great sermon and something that should be shared to a group as it was in this letter.

Here is what Paul does say when he is speaking about an individual.

1 Corinthians 5:1-5.1 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that even pagans do not tolerate: A man is sleeping with his father’s wife. 2 And you are proud! Shouldn’t you rather have gone into mourning and have put out of your fellowship the man who has been doing this? 3 For my part, even though I am not physically present, I am with you in spirit. As one who is present with you in this way, I have already passed judgment in the name of our Lord Jesus on the one who has been doing this. 4 So when you are assembled and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5 hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh,[a] so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord

Be careful with this passage read it too many times and you might begin to believe in universalism. Paul seems to be saying that we are to cast the unrepentant sinner out of the church so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord. See Paul did not condemn this man to hell but rather believed he still would be saved.

One can find the kingdom of heaven before they physically perish. This is the concept that you do not understand. The kingdom of heaven is within each of us. We cannot find it until we repent. Then we can be baptized by the Holy Spirit. One who has repented and been baptized by the Holy Spirit has found the kingdom of heaven.

Is it possible that some people have becoming so corrupted with sin that they will be cast into the lake of fire which is the second death.

Personally I have not yet met the person who responds better to the threat of hell than they do the love of Christ. I am willing to be wrong on this one. Like I have said some people may need to fear hell to do good. The bible does say fear the one who can kill both the physical and spiritual.

reply to post by IAMIAM


more words of jesus..

I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. Luke 5:32

Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained. John 20:23

Strive to enter by the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to be enter and will not be able.
Luke 13:24

Woe to you, pharisees! for you tithe mint and rue and every herb, and neglect justice and the love of God. Luke 11:42

notice the words "neglect justice"..obviously he meant "not fair judgement" in some situations.

For Judgment I came into this world, that those who do not see may see, and that those who see may become blind. John 9:39

This the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. John 3:19

Of that day or that hour no one knows, not even angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. Take heed, watch; for you do not know when the time will come. Mark 13:32-33

As you enter the house, salute it. And if the house is worthy, let your peace come upon it; but if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you. And if any one will not receive you or listen to your words, shake off the dust from your feet as you leave that house or town. Truly, I say to you, it shall be more tolerable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah than for that town. Matthew 10:12-15

Blessed are you when men revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on My account. Rejoice and be glad, for our reward is great in heaven, for so men persecuted the prophet who were before you. Matthew 5:11-12

I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:7

sorry IAMIAM..but you can't just cherry pick the words of Jesus that suit you, and disregard the rest.

So.....

Let me get this straight....

A thread based on "God's judgement on homosexuality" made by a christian i would assume...

13 pages after its posted... after all the rediculous comments claiming that being gay is wrong among other things...

I post this simple challenge to those of you who like to condem being gay...

Could any one of you "christians" that argue against being gay show me where your lord said homosexuality is not allowed?

Considering God made homosexuals as he also made hedrosexuals...

Then watch me show you the error of your thought process...

Good luck

And not a single one of you can show me what i asked for??

I even gave you time to post what i asked... now im home from work... and nothing?

Im not at all supprized in all honesty... this thread is typical "christian" garbage...

i must say... as i usually say... You so called Christians do not know your lord...

And im sure he "does not know you" either....

Bravo people.... bravo...

reply to post by sacgamer25


SInce you feel the need to involve paul in this little issue... feel free to post what he says about being gay...

And i will show you how he does not line up with who he claims to follow...

reply to post by sacgamer25

Paul was not directing his commit at anyone. He was saying that anyone who allows sin to consume them and refuses to come to repentance will not inherit the Kingdom of God. This is a great sermon and something that should be shared to a group as it was in this letter.

and that is exactly what I am saying in this thread.. nothing different.. yet you can call me judgmental and unloving.. but when Paul says it.. its a great sermon? what do you think not inheriting the kingdom of God means?

You are very confusing sacgamer, and you play two sides to suit your argument, and I think you are being biased and unfairly judgmental with me.

You tell me on one hand that God is all love and never judges.. yet you say Paul has a great sermon with teaching Christians and others that is they continue in these actions they will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Then earlier you accused me of not trusting in the judgement of God..in relation to the actions of serious sinners...after you have told me God never judges only loves..

yep..its a great sermon from Paul.. but if gabby says anything that is remotely similar to Paul..she is just an unloving christian full of hate.*sighs*

we won't even get into what Jesus says..

As you enter the house, salute it. And if the house is worthy, let your peace come upon it; but if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you. And if any one will not receive you or listen to your words, shake off the dust from your feet as you leave that house or town. Truly, I say to you, it shall be more tolerable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah than for that town. Matthew 10:12-15

and what does Jesus say about those who won't listen to words of repentance and salvation? Does he say.. "they are hurting inside.. hang around.. and keep loving them.. their sin is causing them so much pain.."

Nope.. he doesn't seem to say pray for them in this little quotation.. more like ..walk away..and let them deal with the consequences.. which isn't going to pretty..considering it will be worse than what happened to Sodom and Gomorrah.

Originally posted by sacgamer25

Originally posted by IAMIAM

Originally posted by sacgamer25
You misunderstand what I am saying. I always agree that we must point out sin, and we must attempt to show the person, through scripture the error in their ways.

Only after you have eliminated your own sin my friend. Let he who has not sinned CAST THE FIRST STONE.

Don't be mislead.


With Love,

Your Brother

Showing someone that what they are doing is what is causing them harm is not casting a stone. I will be the last one to ever cast a stone trust me. If anyone ever thinks I am throwing a stone I am deeply sorry.

At no point do I feel the need to threaten the adulterer or any sinner to hell. In many ways they are already there. If anything I am throwing them a rope to pull them out and not casting a stone to put them down.

edit on 29-1-2012 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)

Exactly my feelings.

Originally posted by sacgamer25
Showing someone that what they are doing is what is causing them harm is not casting a stone.

Simple question my friend, are YOU without sin?

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by gabby2011


Just thought you should know the bible clearly defines this hell you are talking about. The other thing you are speaking of is the lake of fire which I will also explain.

The Rich Man and Lazarus
19 “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’
25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’
27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’
29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’
30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’
31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

The rich man was in Hades. From the looks of it Hades is not a very nice place to go but let’s look a little closer at Hades.

Revelations 20:13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done.

Now you see Hades is a place where the greedy unrepentant people go. But they have not yet been judged. So Hades appears to be another lesson for those that did not learn here. Since they have not yet been judged I am imaging that they still have a chance to learn what they need to. From the sounds of it the rich man is indeed learning that he made mistakes.

Now for the lake of fire. And I am willing to be wrong on this one

Revelation 20:15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Revelation 21:8 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

Matthew 10:28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Revelation 20:14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

Ezekiel 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is mine: the soul who sins shall die.

Matthew 25:41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

Revelation 20:10 And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

It reads to me that those who did not lean either in this life or in Hades that they will be cast into the lake of fire. But here is something to consider, it only appears that the devil and his angels, the beast, and the false prophet will be tormented forever. It looks like the souls of humans who did not repent will be destroyed, which is why it is called the second death.

Not saying that this is a license to sin, but it does appear to be a righteous judgment.

reply to post by Akragon

Lev. 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."1

Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them"

From jesus

"And He answered and said to them, 'Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning 'made them male and female,'" —Matthew 19:4

"But from the beginning of the creation, God 'made them male and female.'" —Mark 10:6

When Jesus was asked questions about marriage he went straight back to the defining passages in Genesis that say that marriage is between male and female and is meant to be life long. He saw the creation accounts in Genesis as authoritative in His day. And what is authoritative for Jesus is authoritative for Christians also. While Jesus did not specifically teach on homosexuality, His establishment of the Genesis passages as the fundamental passages on marriage (even more fundamental than the Law) leaves no doubt as to the outcome.

Originally posted by Akragon
So.....

Let me get this straight....

A thread based on "God's judgement on homosexuality" made by a christian i would assume...

13 pages after its posted... after all the rediculous comments claiming that being gay is wrong among other things...

I post this simple challenge to those of you who like to condem being gay...

Could any one of you "christians" that argue against being gay show me where your lord said homosexuality is not allowed?

Considering God made homosexuals as he also made hedrosexuals...

Then watch me show you the error of your thought process...

Good luck

And not a single one of you can show me what i asked for??

I even gave you time to post what i asked... now im home from work... and nothing?

Im not at all supprized in all honesty... this thread is typical "christian" garbage...

i must say... as i usually say... You so called Christians do not know your lord...

And im sure he "does not know you" either....

Bravo people.... bravo...

edit on 29-1-2012 by Akragon because: (no reason given)

Just because I can not becuase I am passing judgement. Please no hate, I have stated several times that I don't believe being homosexual automatically condemns one to hell.


Romans 1 26:27

26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

Originally posted by Akragon
So.....

Let me get this straight....

A thread based on "God's judgement on homosexuality" made by a christian i would assume...

13 pages after its posted... after all the rediculous comments claiming that being gay is wrong among other things...

I post this simple challenge to those of you who like to condem being gay...

Could any one of you "christians" that argue against being gay show me where your lord said homosexuality is not allowed?

Considering God made homosexuals as he also made hedrosexuals...

Then watch me show you the error of your thought process...

Good luck

And not a single one of you can show me what i asked for??

I even gave you time to post what i asked... now im home from work... and nothing?

Im not at all supprized in all honesty... this thread is typical "christian" garbage...

i must say... as i usually say... You so called Christians do not know your lord...

And im sure he "does not know you" either....

Bravo people.... bravo...

edit on 29-1-2012 by Akragon because: (no reason given)

You could NOT possibly have read every page of this thread without having your question answered MANY times.

HERE is one example, from a post from yours truly, scroll down to middle of the page.