Did Carl Sagan know something?

Originally posted by VoidHawk
Come on people This is NOT about the circles!!!!!!!!!! Please read all three posts.

You keep saying its not about the crop circles. You're the one who included that information, and presented a very closed minded and bigoted view regarding the makers. Listen, you are misinformed about the supposed creators being town drunks, and any topic or point you make in your thread is fair game for our scrutiny. It has been proven over and over that the 'earthly' makers of crop circles are largely organized and methodical in their approach. They do their research and come up with a plan. If you dont want us to discuss a certain topic in your thread, then why would you include that topic yourself? Almost as nonsensical as this BBallersz character I have been seeing a lot of lately.

Phew, *wipes brow* With all that being said, sure Sagan probably was privy to some high level scientific information. I find it strange that the supposed accepted knowledge of the day was 1B base pairs and the message was sent with 4B, then at the end you quoted 3-6B. Ill have to look into that further myself as well.

The thing I dont understand is that if the message was expected to have a turn around time of 50,000 years then either the aliens are really close, or humans have had 25 years to sort out the information, and research a hoax answer. Isnt it strange that it wasnt answered until crop circles became popular, and then the message was answered in the form of a crop circle? The information contained in the message, and the broadcasting of the message wasnt exactly a big secret... If I had 25 years to sort things out, I'm sure I could come up with some pretty scientifically accurate (or at least plausible) information as well!

I want to finish on good terms, the OP is pretty well thought out, clear and concise, it was a pleasure to read. I had heard about most of this stuff before but not all in one place with such high information density. Its nice to see somebody point out all the discrepancies again for the uninitiated. Its a fun story to try to wrap your head around.

Look at the evidence we have.

The opening post describes how amazing pieces of artwork containing hidden codes were discovered next to Radio transmitters/telescopes that search the skys for life.

I would imagine these facilities have high security and the thought that someone could pop along beside one of these and create the images in a matter of hours ,sometimes in darkness are simply stupid.

Could someone who was intellgent waste their time in just a few hours create one of these? Maybe, but what young adult would do so and for what point? Most young adults would be out enjoying themselves at nightclubs and the ones who we would consider Nerds would most likely be studying.

The idea that some of these were created by man appears to be more far fetched to me than the idea that Aliens sent them to us. I have yet to see any evidence of any person create anything other than a basic crop circle and never anything as complex as the above images in darkness and a matter of ours.

When we sent them signals, we do not know how they received them.

I have seen various crop circles formed by light on videos throughout the years, Radio waves are sources of light, so it would seem obvious to me that an Alien Race could actually send a ball of light to create the images we seen. Almost like a FAX.

We also have the message that was contained in code with these images.

The disc looks very much like a compact disc and contains a message. The message
is written in binary and when converted it produces the following.

Beware the bearers of FALSE gifts and their BROKEN PROMISES.
Much PAIN but still time.
There is GOOD out there.
We OPose DECEPTION.
Conduit CLOSING.

How do we know Alien races are not already in contact with our governments and have lost faith with them, this was a message to humanity and to those with the ability to understand the message and not be a government employee?

If they have been in contact with us since the days of Roswell who is to say what knowledge they shared, so in answer to the OP question I do believe the government and in this case Carl Sagan did indeed know the real DNA figures. And perhaps like the Aliens Carl Sagan tried to get the message out there.

Originally people believed that crop circles were created by devils and demons.

Now that people no longer believe in such things it's moved onto aliens.

All along it's just people having a laugh and trying to get a reaction from "the believers."

The story is that the first crop circle was created a few hundred years ago by a disgruntled farm worker who, having not been paid for his days labour, cursed the farmer and said he hoped the devil came for him.

The worker decided to get his revenge.

That night the farmer saw fires and flames in his fields, and in the morning some of his crop had been flattened in a circle.

Putting 2 & 2 together (and being an ardent believer) he deduced that the flames must have been from hell, and Satan had indeed come and damaged his crops as a warning/punishment/message/whatever.

The farmer, rather like our crop circle junkies today, KNEW that there was NO WAY a drunken farm hand could possibly have created a circle in his crops, and what about the fiendish fiery flames from hell?

How could a farm hand have conjured up THAT, and how would he be able to see in the dark? - it's something clearly beyond the capabilities of the mere human mind.

etc.

yawn.

Ignore the obvious, embrace the ludicrous.

Perhaps that could be ATS's new motto?

Some very nice replies and I thank you for them. We've seen some replies from those with scientific backgrounds who have been excited by parts of the op. Some have even offered information concerning the circles that I did not know about. I thank all of you that have taken part without trying to derail the thread, even those of you who have opposing views as this is an important part of learning.

However, I am also reminded of those days years ago when I was in class and the tutor was struggling to teach because a couple of jerks would constantly interupt and ruin the entire session.

Again, thanks to all of you. I got my answer and a whole lot more.

reply to post by Chadwickus

disinfo... like other posts

reply to post by Suspiria


Your telling us that your child was actively and conscioussly searching and reading about the human genome project !

Where on earth did he/she get the idea to look at that ?
can he/she even read ?

makes no sense

reply to post by IntegratedInstigator

they are there, we can feel it... they govern us.... they owned us... no way to run.. s&f

reply to post by sapien82


Where do ideas and insights originate - Within one's thoughts - Children ask the biggest questions and lack the sophisticated indoctrinations of their elders most often.

Originally posted by ZakOlongapo
reply to post by IntegratedInstigator

 

they are there, we can feel it... they govern us.... they owned us... no way to run.. s&f

Thats just scare mongering and makes assumptions based on science fiction

OP, the information about the DNA data we sent out blew my mind. I didn't know it before, and I can't even begin to speculate about why we would send that. Thank you for bringing that to my attention. It's interesting and worthy of discussion even without the "alien" reply. I also think the detail in the reply makes for a worthy hoax, at the very least. Thank you for the post.

As I'm a pretty new visitor to the site, I never understood why people either loved or hated debunkers so much. This thread really made it clear to me. Incessant nit-picking is not debunking. It's like, as soon as someone points something out that makes a hoax less likely (though certainly not ruled out by a long shot) they start attacking in any way possible.

For example:
"Look at this encoded message! Isn't this amazing?"
"Duh, some people with planks could do that."
"But they'd have to know something about Biology, isn't that worthy of mention? Also, it's a reply to a message we sent that has information I thought we didn't have yet, and is, quite frankly, still incorrect. Shouldn't that get an explanation?"
"You're ignorant, leave that hippie utopia."
"Why did you call me ignorant, I was just saying this is interesting and I don't understand all of it."
"That's a discussion, don't get all hurt when someone destroys your stupid beliefs."

It's about one step removed from "That's not a real crop circle 'cause....your mom." I now see debunkers as the people in middle school who used to come up to people and say "Guess what? Chicken Butt" and then punch you in the arm like you did something wrong. Thanks, debunkers, for making me relive horrible 7th grade memories where I had to explain to my mom that the bruise on my arm was because someone said "Chicken Butt" to me. Talk about awkward.

Originally posted by sapien82
reply to post by Suspiria

 

Your telling us that your child was actively and conscioussly searching and reading about the human genome project !

Where on earth did he/she get the idea to look at that ?
can he/she even read ?

makes no sense

Well he is actively and consciously interested in Stellarium and yes he can read probably better than most 6 year olds, he can type in my computer password and navigate around anything that takes his fancy be it on youtube, childrens games and even types ATS into google and pulls it up for me if he's in a good boy mood. As for the DNA website I feel on this occasion it was just a coincidence, but a strange one at that. He said he didn't know why.
It was just strange because it never crossed my mind until I blindly stumbled into this thread and checking my history he had indeed been on that website not a moment before.

]

Originally posted by GeordieLegend
If they really want to make contact, why dont they just take over a TV or Radio channel and announce themselves, instead of playing games in cornfields..?

Surely if they're so intelligent, they'd know it would be a much better and effective way of getting their message across..?

Could you see the human race finding another planet, and writing messages in their fields to let them know we were there..?

...just doesn't add up.

The fastest source is the speed of light. Imagine the crop circles as a large Fax.

Radio or TV signals would take too long to get here.

Crop Circle, Helicopter Orbs


Video about these images

reply to post by liejunkie01


No one creates such an elaborate prank just off the cuff. And if they had, they would have confessed...that's just what people do with well-made pranks. I have a friend who has committed numerous pranks, and he tells everyone about them. He wouldn't admit it to authorities when they asked during the pertinent questioning, but given enough time, the truth comes out.

And how do drunk college kids (who would be much more likely to be out frolicking with the local ladies) manage to create such a precise impression? It's severely unlikely.

And if it was college kids, I would slap them myself for wasting their time in such a grievous manner. Go procreate, kids!

reply to post by VoidHawk



you will be ready for the change when it comes. Even inquiring about such a subject shows your highly developed sense of perception. There are a lot of others though who will have to recycle many more times before they finally start asking the RIGHT questions.

Peace my friend....

Originally posted by Afterthought
reply to post by SavedOne

 

I believe that some more simplistic designs are made by humans, but ones such as the Op focused on are so intricate and detailed that I find it difficult to believe that people had the patience and determination to do this in a few hours without being detected.

I agree. There's no way to make designs like the ones pictured in just a few hours overnight. It might be possible (I doubt it), but it would take an army of men, and would be almost impossible not to be detected by someone. In addition there would be tracks all around the field. There's just not enough hours in a night to do this, especially when you consider if you make a mistake it's ruined.

Originally posted by Afterthought
reply to post by VoidHawk

 

How are we supposed to talk about whether or not this was a reply from aliens if we cannot discuss the crop circles?

Because we're not really worrying much whether is a crop circle made by humans or from an unknown force but we're kinda perplexed by the message that it contains. As far as I understood from the opening post, the op made it clear that the detailed and sophisticated knowledge inserted in the message are far from a common knowledge and the odds for one to go into such troubles in inventing this elaborate hoax are to slim. Talking about probabilities....[sigh]

I can't help but thinking that the "crop circle" images located in close proximity to the radio telescope facility make for a great photo op.
The radio telescope being shown in the same shot as the crop circle images could also contribute to a subliminal suggestion of a space connection. Sort of a product placement strategy by the creators in an attempt to add legitimacy to their handy work.

What do you all say?

Originally posted by mrnotobc

Originally posted by Afterthought
reply to post by SavedOne

 

I believe that some more simplistic designs are made by humans, but ones such as the Op focused on are so intricate and detailed that I find it difficult to believe that people had the patience and determination to do this in a few hours without being detected.

I agree. There's no way to make designs like the ones pictured in just a few hours overnight.

An argument from incredulity is not really an argument, is it?

Harte

reply to post by Telos


No one ever pays attention to the Law of Probability...why do you think there are so many atheists?

Besides, there are people who think if there is even the smallest chance, that chance will come to be. I guess nobody told them fate has a cruel sense of humor...

That picture suggests that the aliens have visited/are inhabiting Earth, Mars and some of Jupiter's moons.

Very intriguing.

Let us hope that the aliens are friendly and not as easily corruptible as us humans.