Did Carl Sagan know something?

Not sure if this is the right forum?

This post is NOT about crop circles though it may appear so at first.

Please read all three posts.

Below is Chilbolton (UK) radio telescope. Above it you can see a crop formation.



One year after the formation in the picture above another formation appeared in
the same field.


Two days after the face appeared this formation appeared. Both are shown below
in the field.



The following year this formation was found near another radio mast.

The disc looks very much like a compact disc and contains a message. The message
is written in binary and when converted it produces the following.

Beware the bearers of FALSE gifts and their BROKEN PROMISES.
Much PAIN but still time.
There is GOOD out there.
We OPose DECEPTION.
Conduit CLOSING.

The upper/lower case is how it decodes.
Decoded by Paul Vigay.
Pauls is no-longer with us, his body was found floating in the sea near his home town.




In 1974 Carl Sagan Transmitted a signal into space in simple binary form. It contained details of -

Our DNA and the dominant substances that create life on earth.
That our planet is the third one from our sun.
Our height and what we look like.
Our population size.
Our calculation system.
Details about how we transmitted the message.


The star system that the signal was aimed at (M13) is very distant, infact its 26000 light years distant so we would not expect a reply until about 52000 years later (I did say it was distant). However, 27 years later all the above started happening.

The formation that appeared two days after the face looks like a copy of the message that Carl sagan sent all those years ago. Could it be a reply? At first it looked identical but there are a few differences and this is where the story leaves the realm of the ordinary because some of the differences would not be known to MOST mere mortals like ourselves.

We'll deal with the easy ones first.
The figure of the human has been changed from a 6.5 foot human to a 3.5 foot large headed being.
The population has been changed from 4.29 Billion (as in 1974) to 21.3 Billion.
The image of the transmitter has been changed. Do you recognise the image of the transmitter? look at the first photo right at the top of this post, and note what its next to!!

Remember, we are supposed to believe these formations were created by a couple of drunk locals out for a laugh with planks of wood and string.

Silicon has been inserted into the atomic table at the the correct place.
An additional strand of DNA has been inserted correctly.
A change in the number of nucleotides.
The area showing our solar system is slightly different.



Lets consider the silicon, an element with an atomic number of 14, added precisely in the correct sequence - between oxygen (atomic number 8) and phosphorus (atomic number 15). Someone at S.E.T.I. claimed the addition of silicon was pure science fiction however silicon is a crucial but almost unknown ingredient in most terrestrial life. Neal Sullivan - then a Scripps graduate student– demonstrated (simultaneous with Volcani’s work) that silicon is essential in the production of DNA-polymerase – an enzyme required for DNA synthesis in diatoms. The center vertical column has been changed in the crop version: there are significantly more nucleotides in the alien DNA.

The following was posted anonymously by a research biologist.

Many people have been speculating whether the new Arecibo crop pictogram in Chilbolton is a hoax or real. The purpose of this message is:
1. To explain why the DNA part of that pictogram was altered from Sagan's original.
2. To suggest a return message.

The central part of the Chilbolton pictogram shows that a DNA double helix as found on Earth, with 10 base pairs per turn, has been replaced on one side by a novel single-stranded helix with just 6 bases per turn. I had to work hard for several days, to discover that the single-stranded helix with 6 bases per turn refers to 2', 5'-linked RNA or DNA, as opposed to the normal 3', 5' variety. This is known to hardly any molecular biologist, and I found out only by making an accurate model. Since the chemical formula of the 6-base helix remains the same as before, I guessed that any difference might be one of stereochemistry: change the sugar-phosphate connection.

A tiny single-digit change in the central "rod" of that pictogram, located between the two nucleic acid strands, may confirm such a change in stereochemistry once it is mapped accurately.

“In any case, there is no other plausible way of constructing a 6-fold helix as indicated.

A. "Association of 2', 5' ligoribonucleotides," Nucleic Acids Research 1992, vol. 20, pp. 1685-1690. This paper shows that 2', 5'-linked RNA will form double helices, but prefers to remain single stranded.

B. "Synthesis and biological activities of 2', 5'-oligoadenylate," Nucleic Acids Research 1995, vol. 23, pp. 3989-3994. This paper explores the use of 2', 5' RNA as an antiviral drug; it seems we have been exposed to such strange molecules in the past, and have evolved an interferon-RNAase L system against them.

C. "2', 5' linked deoxyribonucleosides: thermal stability", Nucleic Acids Research 1997, vol. 25, pp. 3310-3317. This paper shows that 2', 5' DNA will form a double helix with RNA but not DNA; hence any 2', 5' infectious agents would not be detectable by PCR.

“Recall that origin-of-life experiments in the 1980's [?] by Leslie Orgel, found that RNA would often polymerize into two different forms, namely 2', 5' versus 3', 5'; and it was a mystery to chemical evolutionists why 3', 5' was favored on Earth.

Note that many abductees [remember, the central figure in the “response” version of the Arecibo Message looks like a classic “gray”] remain ill with chronic fatigue, which generally includes a high level of RNAase L; just as if their immune systems have been activated by contact with 2', 5' RNA.

The clear implication is that 2', 5' RNA may represent an alternative system of genetic coding to 3',5' RNA or DNA as found on Earth; and that the makers of the Chilbolton pictogram wished us to understand that fact. Whether a secret band of elite scientists could hoax such a result seems doubtful; since 2', 5' nucleic acids are mentioned rarely in the literature, and nowhere does it say that they form a single-stranded helix with 6 bases perturn, that I found only recently, by painstakingly constructing an accurate model.

“If the message is authentic, one must wonder whether it was sent by radio some time ago, yet not made public? Finally … let me suggest a ‘return message’ that could open communication rapidly.

I suggest that you ask people all around the world to write the following in deserts, beaches, forests, crops, and on all frequencies of amateur radio: ‘2', 5' ---6 ‘… ‘3', 5' --- 10 ‘ Or simply ‘6 /10’ if they are lazy. But the full
message is better ...”


As you can see, this really is out of the realms of a couple of drunks with their planks of wood and string.
As stated by others - It realy is remarkable that our first reply should be from beings who's solar system is so like our own.

Continued below...

Many of those who believe this is a genuine reply from aliens think this is NOT another solar system but is in fact our own solar system. It's been suggested that the aliens are trying to say that they are on Earth Mars and Jupiter. If you do a search on the internet you will find many people believe this is true and its being hidden from us.

In a biography of Carl Sagan (Keay Davidson "Carl Sagan: A life") it is told that during his career he was enlisted by the intelligence services. It also apparently suggested that he used secrets gained from his intelligence work to win a fellowship at the University of California at Berkeley. If this is true his involvement with the intelligence sector did give him access to scientific information that was not known by the mainstream scientific community. Assuming he did have access to information we should look at the message that was beamed into space, and the apparent reply During the following years after the message was beamed into space a few people noticed it appeared to have an error, or so they thought because at that time it was believed by all main stream scientists that the human DNA string had a length of about 1 billion base pairs. Carl stated this many times in his own work and it was at that time accepted by everyone as being about right. However, the message that was beamed into space gave the length as a little over four billion. As you can see, there's a big difference between 1 billion and 4 billion and this was the error that people were talking about. While Carls own work repeated the belief that the length was about one billion he failed to notice that the message stated four billion. Carl had on many occasions talked about the message explaining how to read it and even having it printed. Carl was far from being a stupid man and over the years he should have noticed the error, he should have noticed it every time he looked at it but apparently he didn't.

Here we are several decades later and we have a supposed reply to the message. In the message the length of the DNA has increased slightly from the original message. The new message shows the alien DNA to be 4,294,966,110 base pairs while the number sent in the message representing human DNA was 4,294,441,822.
The point to all this is that the number that was sent in the original message we now know was very close to the correct number but back in 1974 this should not have been known.

So, we have a man who we know had inside scientific intelligence data. He supplies a number for the DNA length to be transmitted that in 1974 should have been completely wrong, and even though he wrote and printed this message many times during the following years he never corrected it. The error should have been slapping him in the face every time he looked at it but as mentioned, he never said a word.

Now, here we are decades later, with crop formations designed to look very much like a reply to Carls message, that draw our attention to the DNA by altering it slightly. This difference of 524,288 is actually quite small and if the numbers are correct this would make the aliens a closer cousin than even the chimpanzee's!!
What are we to make of all this?

We have seen the formations and we know for absolute certain they were not made by any ordinary member of the public. To create formations of this detail, in the dark, overnight, would take military style planning. The scientific content of the formations is not the kind of stuff that us ordinary folk would know about either so who is left?

My own personal opinion is either its a reply from aliens or its a very well organised plot by some elite secret organisation.If it were aliens I fail to see why they would choose this method to reply because whoever did this could obviously interpret the original message. If they could interpret the original message which personally I feel was a very poorly put together message then they ought to be able to speak English because the binary in the 2002 formation is plain old ASCI.

If its not aliens then that would leave a very highly organised and extremely well informed secret oganisation with highly advanced scientific knowledge. If this is true then we are left with the question of why?

Lets consider Carls original message which actually didn't contain much of an error but was in fact very close to the true number for the DNA length. How did he know this? we didn't know the correct number until more than thirty years later. Could it be that Carl gained this information from his intelligence contacts and if so that means they withheld knowledge that could have benefited the entire planet. From the evidence it would seem that Carl did deliberately include the real number because he had so many

Continued below...

opportunity's to correct it. Why would he do this? Could it be that he realised information that could help all mankind was being kept secret?

Why would they choose this method (crop formations) to draw our attention? I can only assume they don't trust the worlds media to release the information to the rest of the world.


I know nothing about DNA and when I tried to check the figures I found the following.

The human genome contains about 3 billion base pairs.
Humans are diploid, that is: each human cell (except for sperm and eggs) contains two copies of the genome, for a grand total of about 6,000,000,000 basepairs.
The number varies from person to person.

So, it's possible that Carls 4.somthing billion may have been absolutely accurate. Or, maybe he was deliberately showing us Alien DNA?.


As I said, I know nothing about DNA so I welcome sensible comments form those who do.

I have drawn heavily on information gained by others for this and should acknowledge this by including their names.
Allen Brown - Michael Glickman - Richard Hoagland.

Nice thread and definitely deserving of more flags but,

As you can see, this really is out of the realms of a couple of drunks with their planks of wood and string.

What if it were a couple of drunk college kids that are well versed in their earthly biology and the universe?

I certainly cannot rule this out...........

Just because it is a little more sophisticated than a yen-yang, does not mean that it was made by the aliens.

reply to post by liejunkie01


Please read ALL three posts. Its not about the circles!!!!
.

Thank you, fascinating info. Some of this has been covered before on ATS, but I don't think I've seen it all in one place like this. I really do want to believe that ETs are contacting us through crop formations, but the logical side of me asks why in the world they would try and make contact in such a confusing and ambiguous manner. If they wanted to reach out to the scientific community then surely this is the worst way to do it, because few scientists take crop formations seriously. I remain open-minded about it though.

reply to post by VoidHawk

Remember, we are supposed to believe these formations were created by a couple of drunk locals out for a laugh with planks of wood and string.

No we're not.

The groups who make crop circles are highly skilled and are very well prepared.

Don't underestimate what they're capable of.

This is most fascinating - I am not knowledgable about about the science of which you speak.
But I am intrigued to see where this thread leads.
I never knew Carl Sagan sent out a binary message as you state - Is it possible that it has received a reply - not beyond the realms of possibility - but the technology must be far in advance of ours or maybe it was picked up en route by some beings closer than M13. I too hope other beings have picked up the message.

Originally posted by Chadwickus
reply to post by VoidHawk

 

Remember, we are supposed to believe these formations were created by a couple of drunk locals out for a laugh with planks of wood and string.

Don't underestimate what they're capable of.

Like not reading the entire post!!!!!

reply to post by SavedOne


I believe that some more simplistic designs are made by humans, but ones such as the Op focused on are so intricate and detailed that I find it difficult to believe that people had the patience and determination to do this in a few hours without being detected.

I don't think it's that far fetched to think that aliens would use earthly mediums to communicate. Think of when someone is stranded on an island. They'll use rocks and twigs to spell out SOS to try to get attention from the sky, but here, we're seeing sky beings using the Earth to communicate with beings on the ground. Sort of makes sense to me.

Come on people This is NOT about the circles!!!!!!!!!! Please read all three posts.

Imo, if Carl Sagan was in the intelligence sector, it is very likely that he came across something that would benefit us but the information for whatever reason wasn't released, and he thought this was one of the ways to speak out. Do we know anything more about his death?

reply to post by VoidHawk


How are we supposed to talk about whether or not this was a reply from aliens if we cannot discuss the crop circles?

To answer and redirect your thread, I believe it may have been a reply. Why it happened in such a shorter time period than predicted might mean that they're already here or aren't as far away as predicted.

The man being found dead is certainly suspicious. It appears that more and more scientists are dying from mysterious circumstances, so I wouldn't rule anything out.

Originally posted by VoidHawk
reply to post by liejunkie01

 

Please read ALL three posts. Its not about the circles!!!!
.

edit on 24-1-2012 by VoidHawk because: (no reason given)

Did you not try to decifer the circles?

Is this not where your "code" came from?

Why is'nt it about the circles?

Not everybody is ignorant on biology and astronomy(not necessarily talking about myself).....Carl Sagan was a pretty well known guy and his message is pretty well known.............so to say that no one could have done it is pretty narrow minded......

But anyways, nice thread layout.......

Excellent post OP.

I need to read it again slower and cross-reference with some other material before I can comment further.

S&F for you.

reply to post by VoidHawk


It is about the circles, you have completely dismissed that the crop circles could be man made and based the rest of your theory around that.

I know for a fact that crop circle makers are very capable of creating intricate designs, look at the Wilton windmill crop circle from a couple of years ago, I did a thread on it, was very clever what they did.

Here's the thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Binary codes, ASCII, sound familiar?

Then the subtle reference to the Planck constant...geddit?

I'd also like to add that I believe many people in important places, such as Sagan was, are privy to the information stating that humans have been genetically engineered by aliens.

Originally posted by Afterthought
reply to post by VoidHawk

 

How are we supposed to talk about whether or not this was a reply from aliens if we cannot discuss the crop circles?

Please discuss them, but the post is not about the circles. I was frustrated because stars and flags were being clicked before I had uploaded the entire post.
I would like to discuss the circles as I disagree that a couple of students could accomplish such a task overnight and I'll create another thread to explain why but to do so here would lead us away from the real issue.

reply to post by SavedOne


Well, we have long-standing fly-bys, the long-standing crop circles and now (do we really?) have the sounds.

Perhaps an important point, those three types of "communications" are directed to the citizen, all members of the public, not to the governments.

reply to post by VoidHawk


Perhaps the crop circle creators were the same people who man and run the nearby radio telescopes!

Shock-horror, a prank by university students! It can't be, Nooooo......