Q&A Session with John Lear

Perhaps they have no real desire to share their goodies, and no desire to inform us about them. From the better documented alien abductions on reacord, a common theme: when asking their abductors, why are you doing this, the beings respond "you have no need to know". Take it for what its worth, but it makes sense.

After all, seriously, do you think they want us to know as much about them as they do us? Its classic. Those with the upper hand wish to keep the upper hand. We see it in our own miserable stinking world situation today! They guess with the advancements sure as hell dont like to share the big goodies with the underdevloped little guys. We exploit the third world, we do not devlop it. Hence, why Africa, with the exception of South Africa, hasnt possed the type of tech avaiulable freely in the west. We like to keep them underthumb to use and exploit them on an unlevel playing field.

More than likely, they aliens might be doing the same. Who the hell knows?

For the record, incase anyone wants to get their panties in a knot, dont. Everything I state are my own personal opinions and theories on what is factual. Feel free to disagree, it matters not to me. I came to my own conclusions based on experience and research. Other might not have the same experiences, and it leads to doubt. No matter.
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In the end, does it really matter what any of us think?

After reading the last few pages on this thread, I have to agree with some people. The mods acted foolishly only on a few accounts.

Now the mods have every right to grill, quiz a person on what they say. We all do, and we do it every day.

Its not that they asked John Lear tough questions. Its the fact they got out of hand and started nitpicking a bunch of silly garbage. Throwing TOS at him when they really didnt apply.

Skeptic Overlord. Really. Dont you have any respect for the members as critically thinking beings, capable of determining their own truth and seperating fact from fictions? Why would John Lear need ro start everything "in my opinion"? For gods sake, were not all total dimwits on here, most of us can see he is giving his own opinion, whether we agree with it or not. Those who believe him unquestionably will do so regardless. The fact is many people on here state thier opinion as fact, because, in their experience, they believe them to be irrefutable facts. They may not be based on science or simple logic, but these people believe whatever they want nonetheless. For you to call John a Disinfospreader is silly. He doesnt have the credentials with most people, believers and not, to be qualified for such a position.

He was stating facts as he believes them. To him they are facts, hes simply stating them as he sees them. Does he have evidence? No. Lok at all the religons in the world. Do they have evidence that their claims are real, other thaqn a couple of questionable holy books? NO! Do they have evidence of claims they saw Jesus at their company barbeque? NO! But they are not spreading disinformation, they are stating facts ass they see them, and to them, they are not opinions.

Vahall, if you think anyone even remotelt aquainted with science does not believe in bizarre things like lunar atmosphere, you need to research cults and their membership lists. Look at the roster for Heavens gate and the like. Not dumb toothless trailertrash, that blot, but as with many cults, the mebership included many "pillars of society". As educated as these people were, they truly believed a mothership was waiting in the commet, or beings from the plannet Jujujubee are selecting them for some great cosmic purpose. The most educated people get sucked up into the weirdest beliefs. To them, they are gospel truth.

John came here to share his beliefs. We all know they are HIS. Many people have debated them. I dont believe there is an atmosphere on the moon. I have no opinion on a moon tower. Flesh eating aliens? Dunno, sounds a bit far out there. But to John, these are things he has learned over the years. he is sharing his knowldge based on his experiences. This does not count as disinfo. If so, all the christians and religous people on this site need to get berated for sharing their bible beliefs or whatever as gospel truth, they should be called disinformers.

I have no problem with the mods grilling him. But some people believe him, some dont. I believe some things he says, but not everything. If he believes what he does as fact, i dont quite understand how this is disinfo?

Heres an example. I once had chickenpox. I have no photgraphic evidence that I had chickenpox. When I tell people I have had chicken pox, for all you know I could be full of it. Is that disinfo? There are no photos. The doctors office where I had went to has since then burned down with all records (from a neighboring restaraunt that left the burners on).

The fact is, like old saying goes: absence of evidence does not mean evidence of absence.

Im not bitching about the questions thrown at MR lear, just the overreaction to the whole thing, thats all.

Intrested, you are missing the obvious point (I swear I've made it before, maybe you didn't see it). John was getting challenged not because he didn't give any proof for his story, but because his story contained points that were false. Even prefacing things as his opinion doesn't excuse someone from being asked why their opinion contains such flaws.

On the point of making one post saying 'everything from here is my opinion'. No that is not good enough. We all know that most people tend to take each post individually instead of looking at the posters history. If you are comfortable with it being an opinion there should be no problem with including it in every post. All that is required is an 'I think' to preface the comments etc.

Extremely well put Skadi. You know the funny thing about all of this is....from what I see of John Lear's personality and his colorful and sometimes gritty outlook on things....he probably doesn't give a rat's behind what SO, Kano and others think. But no doubt it upset him because the constant nitpicking hampered his sharing of his experiences and beliefs with others. Oh well our loss not John's. Come on this man has experienced things many of us can only dream of. I wonder if other UFO "personalities"came on here such as Bud Hopkins, John Mars etc, etc...if they would receive the same treatment? I agree close the thread....the damage has been done...eat the loss and move on.....

Originally posted by Kano
Intrested, you are missing the obvious point (I swear I've made it before, maybe you didn't see it). John was getting challenged not because he didn't give any proof for his story, but because his story contained points that were false. Even prefacing things as his opinion doesn't excuse someone from being asked why their opinion contains such flaws.

Ahhh geesh...if this is the criteria for determing or evaluating a person's posts, responses, etc. then a GREAT portion of the posts in the UFO threads should be removed. Forget about Conspiracies in Religion...that whole section is a lost cause. Oh oh and the posts of such things as September 11th comspiracies, Bush conspiracies.....yadda yadda....can't prove anything in those either. Discern fact from fiction in all those threads....go ahead I dare you. As Skadi says let the reader determine the the truth. Ah crap....just disregard this whole post...will you? I am just spitting in the wind.....

"In the end, does it really matter what any of us think? "

yes, yes it does.

your saying those in higher power, have the right to be evil because it suits their agenda? if we do not need to know about them, then they do not need to know about us. sinister motives for a race of higher authority needs no compliance! compared to our own government, who always have our interest in mind whether it be for their own gain, they must take us into account. the evil of our own leaders is easily discovered, our compliance fluxuates on that accord. these alien beings seem to make no such effort, they shall perhish, for they are the epitome of evil in the universe.

or do i have it all wrong!?!?!?

[edit on 18-9-2004 by sturod84]

Originally posted by Kano
You'll also note that john is still not banned, but chose by himself to stop responding to ATS after he was asked tough questions. Questions that could address the truthfulness of what he was saying, instead of questions that just allowed him to continue his story.

I�m with you on this Kano. It all could have been prevented by johnlear stating that what he was saying was speculation. Personally it makes me broiling mad that Mr. Lear has the idea in his head that everyone is going to take his word as gospel. If he had taken the stance, �Well gee, I hadn�t thought of it that way,� or �No kidding, you would be able to see the refraction of an atmosphere on the moon?� this thread could have gone on for weeks/months/years into speculative oblivion.

Anyway, anyone who has read a site debunking John Lear or Bob Lazar know, and should have expected nothing but a line of BS anyway. I guess we know it's all true now. Yea, I don�t have anything good to say about either one of them, that why I�ve kept my opinion silent until johnlear runs away with his tail between his legs whimpering.

sp

[edit on 18-9-2004 by Seth76]

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf After reading the last few pages on this thread, I have to agree with some people. The mods acted foolishly only on a few accounts.

The only thing I asked Mr. Lear to do was comply with our 1-liner and Big-Quote guidelines. No other TOS was "thrown at him" (except during a chat session). I have first-hand information about Bob Lazar, from Bob Lazar, I was hoping Mr. Lear to confirm. He did not or would not. Two simple questions... 1) What was Bob like before he started his job in Area 51, and a chat question, 2) Ask Bob about a certain CompuServe discussion board during the early 1990's (where a bombshell was dropped). Two items that exist nowhere in the public web-record, that only a close friend of Lazar would know. Was that so bad? To confirm the identity of someone claiming to be a semi-famous figure in the UFO/ET community?

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf Skeptic Overlord. Really. Dont you have any respect for the members as critically thinking beings,

So many members were accepting him as who he claimed to be at face value, I thought it important for someone to actually confirm he was the actual John Lear. He never said anything that was not in the public web-record as being attributed to John Lear. When he failed to help with this, all I did was stop treating him as a guest speaker, and ask that he comply with our rules like any other member. He chose to leave.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf The fact is many people on here state thier opinion as fact, because, in their experience, they believe them to be irrefutable facts.

Indeed. And the most respected are those who remain to discuss, not leave when asked to compare their opinions to widely published facts.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf He was stating facts as he believes them. To him they are facts, hes simply stating them as he sees them.

Some of these facts as he believes (lunar gravity and atmosphere) are real issues, that caused significant alarm among many members. When, in the course of analysis, we discover someone with strong ideas who has obviously incorrect assumptions in those ideas, their entire credibility is suspect. Yes, the baby with bath-water syndrome. Why? Because if such a person is not able to apply simple critical thinking to basic concepts, how can we trust their more expansive thinking on larger subjects? Credibility is critical.

Didn't he prove who he was at one point or another by sending someone an email with a picture of him holding a printout of something they sent him?

At any cost - it was a very interesting discussion. I wish it could have gone on longer. We don't live in a perfect world but SO could have been a little more light-hearted...

Either there was an agenda by S.O. to shut this discussion down, or he is the worst moderator on ATS.

He belittled John Lear in a very facetious manner, basically telling him that "If you want to post here, than you'll only post gospel-truth and facts as I see them."

Personally I think the entire thread could have gone on without S.O.'s input / poor moderation, and it is troubling to see a interesting thread with a well known UFO theorist devolve into what it did due to S.O.

Keep your personal feelings or "grudges" against bob lazar, john lear, or anyone else for that matter, out of your moderation duties in the future S.O.

Sick stuff, that's what your moderation was.

Originally posted by TheSeeker
Keep your personal feelings or "grudges" against bob lazar, john lear, or anyone else for that matter, out of your moderation duties in the future S.O.

Sick stuff, that's what your moderation was.

Personally I find this offensive. He's worked hard for this site, I've been at odds with him before but NEVER insulted him, or anyone else on this site, in the manner that you have here. The fact that he's sucked this abuse up, without retaliation, is testement to his rather good moderation. I'm new at this so maybe I don't get it but this is just not right.

Frankly,

Find it as offensive as you like, it's your opinion to be offended by my statement. Much like it's my opinion to be offended and sickened by S.O.'s actions.

Hope you don't get shot down due to your opinions, oh wait, you're a mod too, I'm sure you're safe. Heh, pretty lame "click" you all have, but whatever floats your boat.

I restate that S.O. did poorly in moderating this thread, and has made this board look bad because of it.



[edit on 18-9-2004 by TheSeeker]

Also,

Please note that this does not mean that I agree with John Lear's views or thoughts. That's not the case. I, as well as many other functioning humans who visit these forums, thought the opinions and information expressed here were interesting as well as entertaining. I am fine with thinking on my own, and I'm sure many others here are as well.

Originally posted by Starlight_Rebel
if this is the criteria for determing or evaluating a person's posts, responses, etc. then a GREAT portion of the posts in the UFO threads should be removed. Forget about Conspiracies in Religion...that whole section is a lost cause. Oh oh and the posts of such things as September 11th comspiracies, Bush conspiracies.....yadda yadda....can't prove anything in those either.

Well, if you'd bothered to read my posts, the issue wasn't that he couldn't prove what he was saying, it was that some of what he was saying was demonstrably false. I think ANYONE would be remiss if they noticed someone saying stating something that was plainly incorrect and didn't point it out. Quite frankly I think a few people here are much more interested in reading this as a little piece of fiction (or a religion more precisely) without bothering to use any objective thought and checking up on things.

[ Quite frankly I think a few people here are much more interested in reading this as a little piece of fiction

Hey, I'm fine with that. We were just about to get to the good part and find out the Grey's midi-chlorian count.

Maybe we should move this thread to "Collaborative Fiction" and keep it going!

I got late to read this thread.

I was having a lot fun reading this thread and it's a shame the way the thread ended. Im not here to criticize how it was handled but .......*sigh*

I won't even bother.

As you see, many are dissapointed in some moderator actions, also, once again i repeat, it's not about facts, it's about treatment. For gods sake, look at 90% of UFO/ET subject threads. There are no facts, no nothing. I think i made pretty good job, also i have contacted Dr. Steven Greer and Art Bell for a discussion on ATS, but i don't think my effort in convincing them that their statements and opinion is going to be interesting to so called "mods", likely that they will get a bad treatment and will be forced to leave ATS. S.O, Kano, Valhall, you must understand, that these people don't want to discuss their opinion, their connections and other, with ordinary people, but i can convince them to do that, because i think it is very interesting for us, apart from that, their opinion is needed for us not for them, to keep quality of ATS posting. And you S.O, Kano, Valhall, are just keeping such people away from us. Thank you for your time, my effort in this was vanished in the air. Please, close this thread, there is no need to debate more, John is no more.

John:

First, thanks for your posts - I was enjoying them until SkepticOverlords' post on page 11.

SkepitcOverlord:

Firstly, you're a di(khead!

As soon as I read your post on page 11, I knew JL would abort based on your "over-lord" rant - I certainly know I would have.

Now to respond to a few of your STUPID statements on page 11:

>You tell me what your figure is for the neutral gravity point between the earth and the moon in miles and we will then talk about the moons gravity. And the Atmosphere.

>>Why not now? Yes, as a matter of fact, I'm insisting now. And I can insist.

John asked a VERY relevant question here and then you INSISTED he talk about it NOW before HIS question was answered so he could talk about it further. So now, you're disallowing debates? I would call that a form of censoring or IGNORANCE! Once again, I say you are a di(khead!

>As far as the dust on the moon, the pictures of the lunar rover wheels throwing dust clearly show dust falling much more rapidly than if it were 1/6th that of earth.

>>I suppose simple high-school physics of vector motion doesn't apply on the moon? (particles being given an initial momentum... all that rot)

What the hell was this? I'm sure JL's knowledge of vector motion (or dynamics for that UNEDUCATED idiots on the board - YOU) is far greater than YOURS! Unbelievable!

>>Oh, and are these guys in on the alien stuff too? --> www.nasda.go.jp... How are so many "governments" kept in the dark?

Once again, WTF? Again, I say you are a di(khead! NASDA is the same as NASA. So, basically here you're saying that if NASA knew about aliens that they would tell us? LOL.

Idiot!

>And finally, remember that my statements are opinion of what I believe to be true.

>>You are presenting them as truth. You are engaging in what appears to be an organized deception of the members of this website community. We do not take kindly to that.

Once again, I call you a di(khead Overload! "Organised deception" my a$$! The only once decepting here is YOU. You are pompous Skeptic!

>>ALSO... please read

Now you're SHOUTING at him - real intelligent. You sound more like a 12 year old who can't have a lolly and you can only stamp your feet because you cannot understand your feelings. Poor baby!

>As you have been treated as a guest speaker

If you treat your guest speakers as you are now then you will never have any.

I was going to write to ATF and see if you would be interested in me being one of you guest speakers (not linked to jumpspace of course). I KNOW people would be interested in what I have to say...and they would certainly know who I am.

You can forget about that now as ATF has revealed their true colours.

Remember - it always starts at the top - YOU! Look at the other moderators backing you up. LOL. What a joke! Talk about "group" resonance! All moderators bow to the Overlord...NOW! LOL.

>>we have been lax in enforcing our general rules related to quoting entire threads and one line responses with you. This will no longer be the case.

WTF was this? "entire threads" posted by JL? Get a life skepticoverlord - he DID NOT post entire threads in this thread. Also, your "one line responses" is a joke! He was bombared with hundreds of questions and you want him to write an essay for each answer that could easily have been answered with a "one liner".

On that, can you please DELETE MY ACCOUNT - I have no interest in this site as I can see it is run by an immature idiot who has been obviously PAID by agovernment agency. A moderator said that you "have worked hard" for this site. Well, if you're paid enough, I'm sure you would!

I have thought about the government connection for a while, due to some "comments" made but didn't say anything. Now I know it as FACT! How do I know this? Easy - JL hit a nerve that YOU (your sponsors) didn't like - and YOU decided to shoot him down (via your sponsors).

You may also say "why would this be a government front"? Simple - it is to "know who the whistle-blowers" and "dissidents" are. You may also say "but everyone is anonymous" LOL. I refer you to the following:

www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

There's something in one of these threads that NOT MANY people in the public know about.

IT IS VERY HARD TO BE ANONYMOUS - it can be done. Here's how:

1) Post via Internet cafes, universities or any other PUBLIC site WITHOUT cameras USING CASH.
2) Wear disguise, ie hat, high collar jacket etc that prevents facial detection - even when "casing" or "checking out" possible posting sites.
3) Travel to various states if you need to make a lot of posts (and never use plane travel or any identifiable travel means).
4) DO NOT use these public sites again to post to the same site.

PS: I'd be VERY surprised that you don't delete this post at some time...or even edited by YOU to remove my name calling. Don't forget to delete my account as I have no interest in participating anymore.

LOL.

I just received a warning from Kano:

-----START
A member of the forum staff, Kano, has sent you a warning regarding your activity on the thread titled,
Q&A Session with John Lear. Your have been warned 1 times.
Warnings are recorded, and each individual warning expires in three days (72 hours) from the time it was applied.
If forum staff continue to warn you and you gain 5 or more warnings, a temporary posting ban will be enforced automatically.

Individual warnings carry a points penalty of 250 points which have been deducted from your total.
-----END

And responded by telling Kano to pi$$ off (amongst other expletives) as I am no longer interested in this government backed site.

Will this survive as well?

Cheers

JS

Originally posted by TheSeeker He belittled John Lear in a very facetious manner, basically telling him that "If you want to post here, than you'll only post gospel-truth and facts as I see them."

You are incorrect This is the only time I asked Mr. Lear to alter his posting style... www.abovetopsecret.com... As you can see, it was only a request to abide by our clearly stated, and often enforced guidelines related to big quotes and one-liners. (with an additional strong request to respond to one outlandish claim upon which many of this points are based)

Originally posted by TheSeeker Personally I think the entire thread could have gone on without S.O.'s input / poor moderation,

You must understand that I am in a position to have a level of responsibility for the entire community (admin), and as such, was simply attempting to ascertain the poster was who he said he was. When these attempts were ignored, the resulting conclusions that can be drawn are rather limited.

Originally posted by partykid it's not about facts, it's about treatment

Let's consider that for a moment, what about the way Mr. Lear treated one of the senior management of this domain/site/board? Me. Since it's very easy to pretend to be nearly any person when online (especially one as often quoted as Mr. Lear), we thought it important that senior management verify the poster's identity. How are we to interpret that type of behavior? In the past, we have banned a hoaxer who turned out to be not who he said he was.

Originally posted by partykid And responded by telling Kano to pi$$ off (amongst other expletives) as I am no longer interested in this government backed site.

Your warning was for the insult and expletive. If you familiarize yourself with our terms and conditions, you'll understand. So... this is all very disturbing. Member backlash simply because an attempt was made to verify that a poster claiming to be a popular figure from UFO lore is indeed who he said he is. And further backlash when the poster made some outlandish claims (even if opinion) that were then challenged. This is a first... ATS appears to have an overwhelming number of members who would rather believe a "conspiracy story" simply because it's a "conspiracy story" (this and the Pentagon 757 thread), rather than consider alternatives. A sad, sad day.