9/11: A Boeing 757 Struck the Pentagon

No, I just don't see why I should believe your hear say over anyone else's. I don't know you. Also, just because they pulled bodies out of a building doesn't mean they weren't already in the building. Weren't there some people in that section? Do you often believe second or third hand testimonies of friends of people you don't even know? [edit on 10-1-2005 by Damned]

One Word : NORAD ???... where's all that tech??........... How could they have missed this whole thing..Four planes...

Originally posted by Horus_Re One Word : NORAD ???... where's all that tech??........... How could they have missed this whole thing..Four planes...

Here is a link that delves into NORAD and what they did and did not do on that day that allowed the four supposed highjacked planes crash where they did.

Stand Down is dedicated to Scott Shuger. Scott was known as the first Internet reporter. He was also the only mainstream or alternative media writer, besides myself, who had the courage to write about the elementary mathematical facts (that the two United States Air Force (USAF) F-15 fighters ordered to intercept United Airlines Flight 175 and the two or three USAF F-16 fighters ordered to intercept American Airlines Flight 77 were flying at only 25.8% and 27.4% of their top speed) of the IGNORAD Press Release of September 18, 2001. Scott's article is called IGNORAD The Military Screw-up Nobody Talks About. Scott Shuger died in a scuba diving accident June 15, 2002. The Military Screw-up Nobody Talks About by Scott Shugar IGNORAD NORAD Press Release: AP Article On NORAD PR: The following link lists the 7 bases on full alert and the 28 that were within range. Stand Down 1. To end a state of readiness or alert. 2. To go off duty. 3. To withdraw, as from a political contest. Many sources for Stand Down are from the 600 articles on: For Audios, Photographs and Videos of September 11, 2001: 911 Timelines Direct Action 9-11 Commission Subpoenas FAA and NORAD 911 Commission Subpoenas FAA Planes That Flew Too Close To The White House Private Plane Flew Too Close To The White House Cessna 182 Flew Too Close To The White House Frontier 737 Flew Too Close To The White House

Source: . www.standdown.net... [edit on 10/1/2005 by Sauron]

Originally posted by Horus_Re One Word : NORAD ???... where's all that tech??........... How could they have missed this whole thing..Four planes...

How is NORAD supposed to distinguish between planes that are being hijacked by terrorists and planes that are experiencing electronic problems unrelated to terrorism? BTW, you do realize that there is a major airport, just a few miles from the Pentagon, don’t you? reagan.airporthotelguide.com... In fact, did you know that the approach to one of the runways is directly over the pentagon?

Originally posted by HowardRoark

Originally posted by Horus_Re One Word : NORAD ???... where's all that tech??........... How could they have missed this whole thing..Four planes...

How is NORAD supposed to distinguish between planes that are being hijacked by terrorists and planes that are experiencing electronic problems unrelated to terrorism? BTW, you do realize that there is a major airport, just a few miles from the Pentagon, don’t you? reagan.airporthotelguide.com... In fact, did you know that the approach to one of the runways is directly over the pentagon?

As I understand it, NORAD acts once there is a problem reported by the FAA? I think the issue is why did the FAA take so long to report once they knew there was a problem - nearly 40mins in the case of Flight 77. This despite the fact the aircraft were off course and not responding to comms. NORAD then also seemed less than "on the ball" once they did know. Fighters are often scrambled for a lot less - I think the figure I heard was 60ish times in the 12 months before 9/11. Yet they did nothing when 4 commercial airliners were hijacked? It sounds a bit odd to me

Originally posted by HowardRoark

Originally posted by Horus_Re One Word : NORAD ???... where's all that tech??........... How could they have missed this whole thing..Four planes...

How is NORAD supposed to distinguish between planes that are being hijacked by terrorists and planes that are experiencing electronic problems unrelated to terrorism? BTW, you do realize that there is a major airport, just a few miles from the Pentagon, don’t you? reagan.airporthotelguide.com... In fact, did you know that the approach to one of the runways is directly over the pentagon?

Well excuse my ignorace,see I'm no rocket scientist,but if they can look not only what's flying under the atmosphere they can look outwrads about some extra 3700 miles past it.. If a plane has a deisiganted cource & it deviates from that ,some questions have to be asked..NO.??.. Stange enough today I saw the whole Norad complex being build on discovery..and I thought This is not right ,how come they did'nt see those planes,about a minute later my girlfriend said the same,I said I was thinking of asking that in the forum,but ...only when I checked in a sawthat the topic was on top of my subscrib...I chose to put in the question... Honestly....I don't care if they did see it or not it's past..if there was a IGRNORAD thing..well ..That joins in with the rest of he unanswered questions ..which eventually led to the WAR..long story..And I tell you somethiçng else..WE can Only speculate... pity the links Sauron supplied I can't activate...well I guess I could... What was the issue....??..I'm still Oh yeh I forgot;but I'm sure I've heard that a jet fighter can rach an altitude of some 20,000ft in less that 2 Min.. explain that.. [edit on 10-1-2005 by Horus_Re]

Originally posted by HowardRoark How is NORAD supposed to distinguish between planes that are being hijacked by terrorists and planes that are experiencing electronic problems unrelated to terrorism?

Come on. You don't really believe this do you? They could fly up next to it and look. What are the chances of a random electrical failure causing a plane to wander silently over the NE at the exact same time as this "attack"? This would supposedly paralyze NORAD, since they would have no idea what plane this was? Pretty long odds. Probably about the same chances as hung over "islamic terrorists" being able to pull this caper off. Oy.

Let's say there is an electronics problem on an airplane. What if it was fatal? What if there suddenly was no way to land this plane? What if it was going to crash downtown Manhatten in 25 min. ? If you could shoot it down and only loose the passengers on the airplane would you? Or would you let it crash downtown Manhatten and then kill thousands of people on top of that? Let's say the plane was hijacked. Would you scramble jets then? Is the real question really if NORAD could tell if the plane was hijacked or had an "electrical problem" or is it "why didn't they do anything" ? Is the issue what kind of problem they were having since they detoured from their route or is it why didn't they act to find out? Why be so quick to defend government without room for sceptisism, when thousands of civilians have died? Why has the white house promoted everyone involved in this faliure / stand down and given them more money on the budget? Sincerely Cade

Originally posted by HowardRoark

Originally posted by habmano but it takes more than airplane fuel to disinigrate a human corpse.

What about slamming into a building at close to 500 mph?

Come on dude,are you serious The word here is disintegrate! And you can safely say that NORAD maybe didnt know what they were dealing with as far as the plane goes? What was going on? Please,a flea farts anywhere near that place they send up a squadron Is it so far fetched that a plane mimicking an AA 757 hit the Pentagon and could have had bodies from who knows where on it to distract and give them means of so called proof? Im sure body parts were taken out of the place.Who's were they?The members of the original flight?Says who,the masterminds behind the traggic event!! They must really think people are dumb to think they found ALL members of that flight by means of DNA also by means of small pieces of flesh no bigger than a grain of salt That is as ridiculous as what you all think we come up with in this discussion.Actually,I think it is worse

This thread contains all the evidence that it was a staged event, just like oaklahoma city bombing (watch "road to tyrany" by alex jones). It's not the evidence that is missing. When someone is ready to argue in this forum on behalf of the official story, without having the investigative seriousnes and respect for the dead, to actually hear the prosecuters side of the story. If there is to be a searching for truth, must we not hear both sides of the story before passing judgement? Is this not what a court of law does? Since it's so obvious that so many has not seen the documentaries that point out exactly what is wrong with the official theory, can we assume it's because they do not really want to have a court of law approach to this subject? is it because they really do not want to look at anything that would cast a bad light on our leaders? Are they feeling a "father complex" towards their officials? (like a kid who threatens to beat up the other kid if he says one more bad word about his father) Those who are genuinely mourning the dead from those attacks will always have a burning decire to find out the truth, no matter who is found to be the guilty ones. What we see in this thread, and lets begin with the author of this thread, is a willingness to spend hours and hours of obviously very serious research to find every bit of tingle on the laws of the pentagon that will support the official theory, but not spending even 1 hour listening to those who point out why the official (conspiracy) theory is impossible. Next they come here, again not to find the truth whatever it might be with an open mind, but convince anyone that it's better to keep their eyes closed as well. They dismiss any evidence and ask us who have seen these documentaries and have heard the concerns with the official theory, to belay those arguements to them in this thread....so they can dismiss it. There is something in dismissing a proclamation that makes a man feel clever, and ofcause this does in fact go to show just how clever he really is. "Investigation comes before dismissal, not the other way around!" -- Brian Zebeaune It doesn't matter, those of you who can handle the truth whatever it might turn out to be (after all when you find out the official conspiracy theory is totally impossible, you begin to wonder what really happened, but now you have to do the job that FBI, CIA etc SHOULD have done, but without their now trippled budget) and you will join the movement to uncover this massive coverup of unparraleled proportions. We'll let the others play the role of mister:"What happened?" Are the dead are still waiting for justice to prevail? are they watching us too? Sincerlely Cade [edit on 11-1-2005 by Cade]

Is how ATS has totally pumped it up as a fantasic example of excellent research (and .. okay .. it was well put together for a post .. but that is about it) it basis all it info on what the government has released... "They managed to identify all of the bodies through DNA analisys except for the hijackers." Gee, no kidding? I bet they told you that the DNA they could NOT identify was arab too right? Not only that.. but those photos of the crash.. were NOT officially released by the DoD... they were leaked somehow. There is NO other video of the crash released even though its the most survailed place on earth. And since most of the evidence in this threads report seems to be based on something to do with the video of the crash that the DoD did NOT offically release (because they KNOW its fake and don't want to be caught red handed with a fake at a later date.. just like the OBL confession film) then that means the most of the 'evidence' in this thread is based on a video that NO ONE feels has any credibility.. except for the poster.. who can't figure out how big the plane is (the plane went in at an angle, its not going to look perfectly profile 90 degrees to the buildings side)... not to mention its so low quality that you wouldn't be able to make out the logo on the tail even if it was there. Its a WELL written report dude. And its more interesting I think to see how many people were taken in by the quality of your report (you almost had me there for a minute too). Fact of the matter is... no cameras... no flight recorder.. no plane. Its a hoax. We're just suppose to take their word for it when we already KNOW (there is NO doubt) that they KNEW something was going to happen.. and then made huge gains off its happening (financially and politically). But we should believe them right? I don't doubt that something hit the pentagon... I doubt it was flight 77. Although sometimes I wonder if it was just a bad approch to Regan. "This isn't the same world you left four years ago son. People don't dream like they used to. It's about survival now."

shouldnt a 757 of chewed up the pentagon lawn a bit?.

Not necessarily. The plane came in at an extremely shallow angle and a high ate of speed. At that angle and speed, the "ground effect" would have worked to keep the plane from hitting the lawn. (I beleive that this has already been discussed somewhere in this thread)

The problem with the report of it coming in at an angle is that in the security tape we have seen so much of,the 'object' is parallel to the ground. At the rate of speed this supposed plane was going,in order for it to be parallel with the ground as shown,it would have had to start flattening out several 100 yards before.It cant just come in at an angle and all of a sudden flatten out.Had it 'tried' to do that,the back end would have hit the ground,thus leaving a huge mark in the ground,which we can see is not there. Plus,we see all these images of light polls knocked down.Funny how the ones closest to the building in this 'objects' path were still in place.Supposedly the wings knocked the others down,but not the ones closest to the building even though they were right in the objects path Perhaps some should read the REAL science HERE that debunks that it was an AA 757

Originally posted by SMR Perhaps some should read the REAL science HERE that debunks that it was an AA 757

That's a very good website for this topic. It has a lot of reasonable calculations. Other than the gas station and hotel, there were two highway cams that should've captured the plane. Not to mention, the Pentagon's roof is lined with cameras, all the way around. Every square inch is under surveillance. [edit on 12-1-2005 by Damned]

I know you didnt direct that question at me,but if what you say did,I can honestly say I would still want more considering all the contradicting reports from others on the same day at the same place. Im not saying they are lying,but suggesting they may have seen 'something' in all the confussion.As for knowing and realizing a friend was on the plane as well,I would have to wonder if he really was and question it concidering all the contradicting stories. I would like to know this.They say they identified all the peolpe from DNA. How did they know that a certain DNA matched?Did they take blood from family members?Did they have all these peoples DNA stored someplace?How's that? Makes you wonder if something fishy was going on. They find a piece of skin,and through DNA,link that to a member of the flight.How?

There were indeed a lot of contradicting eyewitness reports. Sure, I'd be inclined to believe my brother, or any other family member, but I'd still wonder how there can be different versions of what happened, depending on who you question. And I'll never get over the physics. It just doesn't add up. Even if a member of my family was reported to have died in that plane crash, I'd still want to investigate. Something just isn't right. No amount of testimony is going to make that feeling go away. Something isn't right about the entire 9/11 day. Call it a gut instinct, if you want. Something just isn't right.

Originally posted by SMR How did they know that a certain DNA matched?Did they take blood from family members?Did they have all these peoples DNA stored someplace?How's that?

DNA matching can be done via an immediate blood relative. (parent, child, sibling, etc.) In addition, items like toothbrushes, combs, etc from a missing individual contains DNA.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord What would your position be if your brother called you the evening of 9/11 shaken to his core because he was on the highway next to the Pentagon when it happened and saw it all... even the quick glimpse of people in the windows of the 757? No questions at that point, it was the day of the event. No prodding, he called on his own to relate how he saw the plane, and described what he saw to the police. And later he discovered a close friend was on the plane. Had this happened to you the evening of 9/11, what would your position be today?

Could you convince this person to sign up for an ATS account and post their account personally? It might help us to read this information more "first hand" than the constant "friend of a friend's brother" mythology.

This is what gets me. Once again, look at this crash test video. Do the wings fold when it hits the barrier? Do they move back or forward? Would they, if the wall was as wide as the wingspan? Definitely not! They'd explode into a bunch of debris and be scattered all over the place, just as this plane was. Except, on a 757, there's alot more mass on the wings, with 10,000lbs. of engine on each wing. Yes, the debris is small, but observe the way it scatters backward. There should have been alot more debris everywhere. Wings just do not fold in either direction when they hit a solid object like that, at high speed. They do not change direction, and they certainly do not fold into the cabin of the plane and enter the same hole the body went through. We're talking in excess of 20,000 lbs. of debris that could not have possibly entered the Pentagon, not counting the tail section. It doesn't just vanish. www.sandia.gov...