9/11: A Boeing 757 Struck the Pentagon

Just a side note: There has been evidence found that it was a boeing jet, possibly a 737 or 757. They found one of the engines, and some bits of the landing gear. There is also a picture of a part that is ONLY used on 757's, however, the picture can not be confirmed to be at the Pentagon, as it was taken almost straight down on the grass. What hit the pentagon was most definately a plane, and NOT a missile, and evidence found points toward a 737 or 757. I think the real debate shouldn't be WHAT hit the pentagon, but HOW did a jet of that size, and a goon for a pilot pull off a near mathematical impossibility to hit the building the way it did?

Originally posted by Jaruseleh I think the real debate shouldn't be WHAT hit the pentagon, but HOW did a jet of that size, and a goon for a pilot pull off a near mathematical impossibility to hit the building the way it did?

How is it mathematically impossible? The Pentagon is the largest office building in the World, just point the plane in the general direction and voila. BTW, nothing is impossible, only highly improbable.

Not true... check out this web site. A VERY in depth investigation on facts available from the Pentagon attack. There is a lot of good info here, and I think the page does a great job of just laying out the facts, and letting you decide what happened. Basically, the part I'm getting at is this: In the video cought by the security camera, the Jet is already flying straight and level 10 feet off the ground. The reason this is a HUGE improbability is because that view is just to the left of a hill just to the right of the camera view. It is not impossible to be in the position the jet was in, but it would take some fancy flying without crashing pre-maturely, and by all accounts, the guy flying the plane couldn't land a cessna...I'm not sure everyone realizes how amazing a feat it would be for him to do this...or anyone for that matter. At any rate, here are 2 links. One is to the page I was just talking about above, and the other is the home page. www.earth-citizens.net... home page: www.earth-citizens.net...

READ THIS www.thetruthseeker.co.uk...

The crash of Pacific Southwest Flight 1771

A Call comes in to the San Luis Obispo County, California Sherrif's Office citing a small plane crash in the mountains of southern California. Detective Bill Wammock is the first to arrive on the scene. He recalls �nothing that resembled an airliner... we went on for hours, before we heard the news reports of a missing airliner, believing that we were dealing with a small airplane full of newspapers that had crashed. We saw no pieces of the aircraft that were larger than, maybe, a human hand. It did not look like a passenger aircraft.� Two days later, an FBI Agent working the scene found what appeared to be the barrel and trigger of a handgun. Forensic Analysists examined the pieces, and found a small peice of skin wedged between the trigger and the barrel. By matching the skin prints to the passenger manifest, investigators were able to conclude that the gun had been in the hand of USAir employee David Burke at the time of impact

or how about this one?

The aircraft exploded after a botched landing attempt in which the First Officer inadvertantly deployed the spoilers 50 feet above the runway. The aircraft slammed onto the runway, hitting the #4 engine on the pavement. The Captain initiated a go around, which was successful, but the aircraft exploded on downwind. Probable cause was that a fuel line was severed on engine #4 when it hit the ground, and the fuel ignited while on downwind.

click for photo Note that plane was on a low speed approach at the time. click for photo

The aircraft, on a flight from New Orleans to New York's John F. Kennedy Airport, struck approach lights during a runway 22L ILS approach. The aircraft broke up and caught fire. The National Transportation Safety Board's official accident report reads as follows: "The aircraft's encounter with adverse winds associated with a very strong thunderstorm located astride the ILS localizer course, which resulted in high descent rate into the non-frangible approach light towers. The flight crew's delayed recognition and correction of the high descent rate were probably associated with their reliance upon visual cues rather than on flight instrument reference. However, the adverse winds might have been too severe for a successful approach and landing even had they relied upon and responded rapidly to the indications of the flight instruments. Contributing to the accident was the continued use of runway 22L when it should have become evident to both air traffic control personnel and the flight crew that a severe weather hazard existed along the approach path."

www.airdisaster.com... Another low speed landing approach. And one more click for photo

The aircraft crashed while on approach in rain. The Captain was heard yelling "shut up, shut up" at the Ground Proximity Warning System as it announced "pull up, pull up."

In all of these cases, the aircraft was literally smashed to bits. Note that except for the first crash, all of the others happened at relatively low takeoff and landing speeds.

Originally posted by Cade Not many of us has seen the pentagon crash or a real life plane crash, but we have all seen them on TV, both the pentagon crash and many others, this is how we compare them. I'm sure we can all agree that when there are no wings, no engine, I think it's an intelligent reaction to ask questions. I also think to not ask questions is a misguided view of what a patriot is. The part that catherder says is from the engine is only a fraction of the size it would have had to be, if it came from a boeing. If you really feel strongly about this subject (as your post would seem to indicate) who not take the time to review the "Painful deceptions" DVD? How could more info hurt?

The engine has been explained away to be an auxiliary engine from the tail section of the plane. Although, no experts have been able to identify it as any engine that would have been in a 757. The engine debris should be the most identifiable pieces found, yet no one can ID it for certain? HowardRoark, maybe you should look at those pics. There's crap everywhere in all of them, not to mention the ground is really f*cked up. I don't see any similarity at all between those and the flight 77 crash. Do you? For one, none of them hit thick concrete. Soft ground is more apt to absorb debris into the soil. Unless concrete breaks, anything that hits it has to bounce off. The fact still stands that there's no way in hell that an entire 757 could fit through that hole and not leave ANY substantial debris outside. When you take a few college physics courses and get wonderful grades, come back and talk to me about this one. Until then, I'll assume you just can't comprehend what I'm trying to explain to you. The laws of physics are constant, unwaivering. You can't negotiate them, based upon your beliefs. That is the only reason I cannot believe a 757 hit the Pentagon. [edit on 10-12-2004 by Damned]

You have voted Damned for the Way Above Top Secret award.

I honestly cant think of anything else to add to this topic that hasnt already been addressed.If you see it,you see it.If you dont and believe what they HOPED you would believe,then so be it. IMHO,it was not a 757 AA.Im going to stick to that until the day I die.I wont lose any sleep over it.I wont push it down anyones throat.It is what I believe from what I have gathered around the net and my own common knowlegde of how things happen. I just hope that one day,someone,leaks some sort of document,footage,or otherwise.

Gracias dude. I'd like to add; Whomever came up with the liquid motion theory, also doesn't understand physics. For example: If you sprayed a stream of any type of liquid (I don't even care what type) at a concrete wall at around 500MPH (whatever PSI that would be), it's either going to punch through the wall, or bounce off. It's as simple as that! Even liquid is not going to change direction of travel at that speed, miraculously move over, and go into a hole. It just can't happen. I don't care if you did it with mercury. It's not going to happen.

Originally posted by Damned The engine has been explained away to be an auxiliary engine from the tail section of the plane. Although, no experts have been able to identify it as any engine that would have been in a 757. The engine debris should be the most identifiable pieces found, yet no one can ID it for certain?

The engine issue was discussed quite extensively earlier in this thread. As far as I am concerned the issue is settled. The engine is part of the 757. The wheel rims were from a 757. The pieces of debris on the lawn outside the building were from an American airlines airliner. Debate with yourself. I am not going to endlessly rehash the issue.

Originally posted by Damned HowardRoark, maybe you should look at those pics. There's crap everywhere in all of them, not to mention the ground is really f*cked up. I don't see any similarity at all between those and the flight 77 crash. Do you? For one, none of them hit thick concrete. Soft ground is more apt to absorb debris into the soil. Unless concrete breaks, anything that hits it has to bounce off.

�Unless concrete breaks, anything that hits it has to bounce off.� Or break itself. The airplane is not made of rubber. It won�t �bounce.� It will shatter, however. You are right about one thing. The lower speed crashes all did involve impacts with relatively soft earth. Yet the planes were pretty much destroyed. The pentagon crash involved a massive masonry structure. In fact, the only thing that would make me suspicious, would be if any significant parts of the plane had survived. Yes, there was a visible debris in those other crashes. but not much that looked like an intact part of a plane. Also even in those crashes that involved fire, you did not have the building around the debris to add to the fuel load and to intensify the heat.

Originally posted by Damned The fact still stands that there's no way in hell that an entire 757 could fit through that hole and not leave ANY substantial debris outside. When you take a few college physics courses and get wonderful grades, come back and talk to me about this one.

Until then, I'll assume you just can't comprehend what I'm trying to explain to you. The laws of physics are constant, unwaivering. You can't negotiate them, based upon your beliefs. That is the only reason I cannot believe a 757 hit the Pentagon. [edit on 10-12-2004 by Damned]

Well, I�m sure you would be happy to know that I got A�s and B�s in the graduate level engineering courses that I took. As you know physics is a study of mass and force. Your problem, damned, is that you simply fail to appreciate the enormously HUGE amount of energy that was involved in the impact. That energy was responsible for the deformation, and damage to the building and the destruction of the plane down to very small pieces. Oh, and BTW, if you go back and watch the parking lot video, you can see a large chunk of the plane fly up and onto the roof of the building as a result of the force of the impact.

Even if the wings burst into little tiny little pieces, every single piece of them would be all over the Pentagon lawn, and the entire area. This was not the case, really. We're talking about probably more than 25,000 lbs. of aluminum that could not have entered the building. I don't care if it turned to dust sized particles, that's still a pretty large pile of debris. It sure as hell didn't just disappear. Imagine trying to disperse 25,000 lbs. of sand. Just where did it go? I got ya beat. I got an A+ in physics and graduated on the Dean's list. I didn't even have to study, for the most part. I've also worked with metals for most of my life. I have been a mechanical engineer, professionally. I designed machines for a living, until the last 5 years or so, when I made a career change. So, Nyah!!! [edit on 10-12-2004 by Damned]

I dont have time to read the 40 pages of posts, but surely someone has mentioned how eric hufschmid (at least), scaled what a 757 would look like in the security camera pictures... and it does not fit behind that post or whatever... eric hufschmid also mentioned how the explosions were not typical of exploding rocket fuel... 40 pages... holy crap

What did we all believe on September the 11'th? We were told that no terrorist organisation could have pulled this off as the operation was much too big. So were were all in doubt. Then we were told that Osama did it, and we all believed it. I for one didn't doubt it at all. Next some of us at one point started seeing the evidence, or perhaps rather the lacking evidence, to support the conspiracy theory that a group of jihad terrorists was behind the attack. This made some of us decide to no longer believe in the official conspiracy story. Which group has proven to be open to both the official conspiracy explanation and the alternative conspiracy explanation in this process? "investigation comes before dismissal, not the other way around" -- Brian Zebeaune We as a population have been brought up to believe that conspiracy theories are always just theories and never real. We believe this as a population. A few important facts totally escapes the average joe: 1) Our history books are filled with conspiracies. Read about Nero, Jesus, Hitler, Kublai Kahn etc. And in the history books they are written as facts, not "theories". (by the way, I am anything but a history buff, so please, no Q & A in history, as I will surely fail ) 2) Our authorities ask us constantly to accept conspiracy stories all the time. Conspiracy theories that Sadam was conspirering to build WMD and then perhaps attack the US. That Sadam had conspired with Osama to bring about the attack of 9/11. Etc. etc. 3) That somehow conspiracy theories are always just "theories" when two factors are in place: A) The conspiracy theories point towards the authorities as the perpetrator B) They are to have happened in the present time and not history. This way the reality of conspiracies can dissapear from present time when they expose authorities, much like a boeing can on the lawn of pentagon. Who is dreaming and who is awake? Sincerly Cade

Carl Sagan, who once said something along the line:"It's much more fun to cry in a jaguar than on a public bus, I would know, I have tried both" ...also wrote an interesting essay that a friend just recently pointed out to me. It's called "There's a dragon in my garage". Read it here if you want, it's only about one page: www.users.qwest.net... It's about believing in conspiracy theories, and it really gives food for thought. Mr. Sagan points out that if someone claimed there was a dragon in their garage and you went there only to find out you could not see it, and "someone" then explained that the dragon was invisible, but you could not trace it's foodprints in flour because it also floats in mid air, and cannot be traced by infared because it gives out no body heat etc. etc. why would you indeed believe in the dragon, in the conspiracy theory. Now, replace the dragon with a boeing, the foodprints with planewreckage and a green lawn, teh infared with 5 frames of low resolution survelliance footage etc. I think you get the idea. Sincerly Cade

Originally posted by Damned Even if the wings burst into little tiny little pieces, every single piece of them would be all over the Pentagon lawn, and the entire area. This was not the case, really. We're talking about probably more than 25,000 lbs. of aluminum that could not have entered the building. I don't care if it turned to dust sized particles, that's still a pretty large pile of debris. It sure as hell didn't just disappear. Imagine trying to disperse 25,000 lbs. of sand. Just where did it go? I got ya beat. I got an A+ in physics and graduated on the Dean's list. I didn't even have to study, for the most part. I've also worked with metals for most of my life. I have been a mechanical engineer, professionally. I designed machines for a living, until the last 5 years or so, when I made a career change. So, Nyah!!!

[edit on 10-12-2004 by Damned]

The real issue here is how much pain it imposes on some people to see evidence that those in whom they trust, are not trustworthy. Perhaps if we could find a way to show them comfort, showed them what we believe in instead, they would find something new to believe in. We all need something to believe in. Let me start by saying that 90% of the people in the intelligence community, the military, the government are trustworthy and sincer. Unfortunately it only takes 99% clean air and 1% poison to kill you. To believe that evil people are not aiming for the same positions of power as the good spirited people are, is not only naive, but it is foolish and treason towards human kind, as you thereby become an accomplish to their misconduct. Obviously what you are saying is correct. It's obvious to anyone except those who feel that their would would stop making any sence if it was really true. People, we are all in this together, we can easily stop them, but first we have to wake up and face reality. We can create a much better world, and wouldn't it be nice? If we had trustworthy leaders, what a world it would be. Sincerly Cade

Originally posted by afklop I dont have time to read the 40 pages of posts, but surely someone has mentioned how eric hufschmid (at least), scaled what a 757 would look like in the security camera pictures... and it does not fit behind that post or whatever... eric hufschmid also mentioned how the explosions were not typical of exploding rocket fuel... 40 pages... holy crap

If anyone would like to know what afklop and many other of us know, you can download Eric Hufschmid's "Painful Deceptions" for free right here: question911.com... You can optain even further knowledge from this "911 in plane site" DVD Why does FOX misrepresent the movie? Any "News Diciples" waking up? www.911inplanesite.com... www.911inplanesite.com... Sincerly Cade

This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing...............................

No wonder this thread is so long. Noone bothers to read the first 10 pages or so where all the questions are discussed the first time. Instead the same questions keep gettin asked over and over again, the answers will never change. I guess everyone has to put their 2 cents in even if its the same 2 cents over and over and over and over..................

The main reason people keep repeating themselves is because those who buy this story won't accept that there are very good, solid reasons to believe otherwise. They cast aside all logic that conflicts with the story they've already accepted. Absolutely nothing has been solved or proven, as far as I'm concerned. I keep bringing up new facts and examples, trying to get the blind to see, but the blind will never see. Instead, they'd rather resort to distracting questions, such as, "Well, if it wasn't a 757, then what was it?", which don't directly address the questions at hand. This is basically trying to answer a question with a question. When you start to analyze a problem, you don't immediately jump to the last questions. This is the same as asking, "Well, if the world isn't flat, then how come people don't fall off?" Then trying to prove the world is flat because, as far as you know, there is no other possibility. You start facts you can verify, not questions you can't answer. The physics are still the most important evidence that something is very wrong with the official story. Has anyone here met a physics major or independent crash investigator (not affiliated with the gov) who believes that it was possible for a 757 to enter the Pentagon and leave no trace? Have any independent experts actually investigated this? Why not? Where are the results? Why haven't the few parts that should easily be identified been identified? Why have some of the most logical things been skipped, suppressed, or kept from the public entirely? What is going on here? Why hasn't the video been released in its entirety? Where is the black box audio? [edit on 12-12-2004 by Damned]

I agree. Perhaps the real danger is getting caught in the discussion, trying to convince those who love the government more than they love their country and the public, instead of doing what needs to be done about it, whatever that might be. The nationalists will never accept the evidence of misconduct, the patriots are always prepared to defend their country against their government, if nessesary. Well it's nessesary now! More so than ever before in known history. I keep comparing to germany, but so far not many has had much to say about that comparison. The nationalists just don't have the heart to look at this evidence, they are not bad people, they just worship the institutions rather than the people who constitute them. If they really looked at the people, they would quickly realize that no institution is any more legit than the people who run them. I feel that we are waisting our time, getting the blind to see, it's their choice and peace to them. We on the other hand carry the grave responcibility that comes with this knowledge. Ofcause some of the responsibilities are to spread the word so to speak, but I don't think it's about convincing those who refuse to open their eyes. In my country we have a saying: "you can't put anything in a closed hand"...and you can't show anything to closed eyes. We need to move on, there are enought of free thinkers out there who can see something is wrong and who might love their government, but who loves their country and the population even more. We must show the evidence to them, as many as possible. Many are already in action. Perhaps we need to stop waisting our time in forums like this and doing something. (I live in denmark, and we are facing the same problems here now because of 911. Our constitutions is also being subverted, the EU wants to monitor every citizens phonecalls, emails etc. etc.) 911citizenswatch.org... Someone once said: "A society of sheep, in time will breed a government of wolves" Sincerly Cade ps. the real discussion we should be having is not if it "there's a dragon in my garage" but what we are going to do about stopping the campaign saying there is!

Originally posted by Cade I agree. Perhaps the real danger is getting caught in the discussion, trying to convince those who love the government more than they love their country and the public, instead of doing what needs to be done about it, whatever that might be. The nationalists will never accept the evidence of misconduct, the patriots are always prepared to defend their country against their government, if nessesary. Well it's nessesary now! More so than ever before in known history.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness...... But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. If there's something wrong,those who have the ability to take action have the responsability to take action.

A great quote, SMR. After second thaught, the real patriots in America are not these scared jerks taht get behind Bush's back to point their fingers at all these "evil muslim terrorist" or the "leftist hippies" or anything. The real patriots are those who are not afraid to question the authorities of their country and contest the governemnt and the people who work inside it. As you read this post, Bush is selling America to big corporations and works hard to establish a Police State where your constitution will just be useful as a souvenir into historic-theme parks for kids, and if you people here don't realize how Bush is NOT America, and how you HAVE the right to contest what he's doing, how you HAVE the right to go to Washington and protest against him, you'll never be a real, free American.