All Roads Lead to Babylon : Mystery Babylon Demystified

reply to post by undo

i was responding to jb, who was telling me the history of nimrod so far as if i didn't have the data, and i thought i'd save him having to recount all of it to me, as the info i'm offering is in addition to the commonly known stuff. check the link i provided to jb in my response to him. there's some fun stuff right there. it's one page, on the single topic of the mention of the divine council in deutoronomy.

Firstly HIM is actually a HER.

I didn't post the stuff for you specifically about Nimrod. I posted it as general interest in this thread.

I agree that wicked spirit forces control all three facets of our society - the political, religious & commercial systems.

The Bible actually states that Satan took Jesus to an unusually high mountain and offered him "all the Kingdoms of the Earth" - if he would carry out one act of worship to him. How could he have offered World domination if in fact he and his occult organisation didn't control matters behind the scenes?

I've certainly learnt much more reading muzzle and other people's posts on this thread about ancient pagan beleifs and the history of secret societies. None of us can say we have the definitive answers on some ancient matters, we can only discuss based on the information we have to hand.

reply to post by JB1234


still trying to figure out what part of what i posted about nimrod you hadn't seen before and if you need me to get you the links to read or not. it's odd but i get the feeling you're arguing with me because you think i'm saying or doing something wrong. yet the only thing you've mentioned so far is i shouldn't post my info because no one has definitive info on it. please explain your position on this subject? and if you would be so kind, point to which parts of info on nimrod you didn't recognize, in my post. everything i've said so far, has been further explanations about the data the op offered, with minor corrections. hostile .

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by JB1234

 

still trying to figure out what part of what i posted about nimrod you hadn't seen before and if you need me to get you the links to read or not. it's odd but i get the feeling you're arguing with me because you think i'm saying or doing something wrong. yet the only thing you've mentioned so far is i shouldn't post my info because no one has definitive info on it. please explain your position on this subject? and if you would be so kind, point to which parts of info on nimrod you didn't recognize, in my post. everything i've said so far, has been further explanations about the data the op offered, with minor corrections. hostile .

I was taking issue with some of your post about Nimrod supposedly from Deuteronomy -

the big clue is embedded in the book of deutoronomy, as far as i can tell. the passages are talking about the events that occurred as a result of the tower of babel. the divine council, presided over by jehovah/yahweh, determined to correct nimrod's error. at this point in the story, nimrod is emperor of the known world. he has slaves from mesopotamia to egypt, who all speak the same language (because they were all survivors of the flood from the same geographical locations) rebuilding the prior temples of the gods, and their accompanying infrastructures. he brings new slaves thru the gate, who have different languages and cultures (this part i'm guessing at) which causes language and cultural problems (not to mention racial problems). aside for some very sci-fi like additional data, the storyline goes that nimrod was divested of his power and it was split between 70 watchers (archangel variety), and the world was split up into 70 territories presided over by the 70 archangel watchers. ISRAEL was set aside to be watched over by the archangel michael. this little tidbit of data, completely befuddled staunch believers who felt the text of the deutero-canonical books contained no errors and were written entirely by moses. but if that were so, how did moses write about isreal being presided over by michael the archangel when it wasn't even a country at the time of babel and wouldn't be for a very long time. seeing as how the text there is speaking as if it moses himself explaining the history of babel, retrospectively, the question has grown into different possible explanations, for example:

These details go way beyond what the Bible states about Nimrod, as far as I can see. Perhaps this is from another book not included in the original canon?

Whatever your impression I can assure you that I was not saying that you shouldn't post anything! I was merely saying that there is lots about ancient history that none of us can be definitive about. That was a general observation kinda agreeing with what Muzzle posted.

reply to post by JB1234


well did you read the link? it's 70 nations, governed by 70 sons of god (archangel variety, as is evidenced by the fact archangel michael was assigned israel). so if that's not the part you didn't recognize, which part is, can you be more specific?

reply to post by muzzleflash


Fantastic collection of information. s+f

Will definitely take some time to read through all of it.

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by JB1234

 

well did you read the link? it's 70 nations, governed by 70 sons of god (archangel variety, as is evidenced by the fact archangel michael was assigned israel). so if that's not the part you didn't recognize, which part is, can you be more specific?

edit on 3-1-2012 by undo because: (no reason given)

Ah I see now.

The dividing of the Promised land is what is being spoken of in Deuteronomy 32:7 & 8 and the interpretation on the link you provided to the Heavenly Divine Council is not what many understand this to mean.

On the other hand, Jehovah God also decreed that the Israelites should not encroach on the boundaries of the nations of Edom, Moab, and Ammon, anciently descended from relatives of the Israelites’ forefathers. (De 2:4, 5, 18, 19) The words of Moses’ song in Deuteronomy 32:8 are to be understood in the light of these facts. That text says: “When the Most High gave the nations an inheritance, when he parted the sons of Adam from one another, he proceeded to fix the boundary of the peoples with regard for the number of the sons of Israel.

There is much debate about these original verses and their transaltion,however my understanding of
Deuteronomy 32:7-8 . . .

Remember the days of old, CONSIDER the years back from generation to generation; Ask your father, and he can tell you; Your old men, and they can say it to you. 8 When the Most High gave the nations an inheritance, When he parted the sons of Adam from one another, He proceeded to fix the boundary of the peoples With regard for the number of the sons of Israel.

Moses cannot have been speaking surely about the division during Nimrod's era because the Nation of Israel didn't exist.

This explanation of Deut 32:7 is entirely in agreement with other scriptures also discussing God's covenant for the promised land with Abraham...

Genesis 15:13-16 . . .And he began to say to A′bram: “You may know for sure that your seed will become an alien resident in a land not theirs, and they will have to serve them, and these will certainly afflict them for four hundred years. 14 But the nation that they will serve I am judging, and after that they will go out with many goods. 15 As for you, you will go to your forefathers in peace; you will be buried at a good old age. 16 But in the fourth generation they will return here....

Genesis 15:18-21. . .On that day Jehovah concluded with A′bram a covenant, saying: “To your seed I will give this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the river Eu‧phra′tes: 19 the Ken′ites and the Ken′iz‧zites and the Kad′mon‧ites 20 and the Hit′tites and the Per′iz‧zites and the Reph′a‧im 21 and the Am′or‧ites and the Ca′naan‧ites and the Gir′ga‧#es and the Jeb′u‧sites.. . .

That link you posted about the Heavenly Divine Council was quoting - concerning 70 angels in Nimrod's time is not from Moses' writings THAT is from the book of Jasher, which is NOT traditionally included in the Bible or Holy Canon as of divine inspiration.

Any supposed orderly division by God during Nimrod's day of mankind's areas would surely run counter to the account of Genesis 11:8-9 . . 

.Accordingly Jehovah scattered them from there over all the surface of the earth, and they gradually left off building the city. 9 That is why its name was called Ba′bel, because there Jehovah had confused the language of all the earth, and Jehovah had scattered them from there over all the surface of the earth.

The use of the word "scatter" I would think.....certainly runs contradictory to the interpretation of Deuteronomy and Jasher's account, that God posted 70 angels and they watched over the divisions of the land in Nimrod's day into 70 areas, which would imply an orderly division. Not forgetting that Nimrod and his followers were "rebels" against God in the first place. So why would they take any notice in any case?

Surely the only conclusion would be that the division spoken of in Deuteronomy 32:7 & 8 is speaking of a much later division of the promised land between the 12 tribes of Israel.

Originally posted by Josephus23
reply to post by xuenchen

 

Greetings Xuenchen....
I am glad to see that you are still keeping this thread up and running.

I had to log into reply to that tripe that muzzleflash has posted and take him/her to task for the blatant rip off.

See you at the other site my kind brother.
Glad to see all you new folks posting on this thread.

Keep the hope alive for he who shall not be named and PM me for my personal email address so that I can send you info on how to talk to ummmm, me and other like minded folk by other means.

Take care brother Xuenchen.

edit on 1/3/2012 by Josephus23 because: (no reason given)

I will repost my reply here in this thread so that readers here can see what the true motives of your posts here actually were. This is a post from the older thread.

I don't think you took anything to task, you just dismissed it without providing any substance, and I easily rebuked your dismissive attitude easily.

I even provided significant proof that all roads don't lead to Rome after all, they lead to Sumeria. There are artifacts that reveal this. Debunk them properly, don't just go into other threads and bad mouth me behind my back, that's not very mature.

You were claiming that all of the religions derived from Rome but that is totally inaccurate and it is proven beyond a reasonable doubt through basic historical research. There is no need for you to act that way, to be honest.

Also I find it interesting that you keep saying "brother".
Am I sensing the source of your bias?

I don't really like to get involved in this type of thing but people need to see what happened here so they will know there is an agenda afoot.

Debunk the claims properly here please don't go to other places and talk smack.
That's all I ask thanks.

Originally posted by JB1234
.

Highly recommended viewing Klaus Dona: The Hidden History of The Human Race (March 2010)

This is one of the best I've seen. Thanks for posting.

Originally posted by Josephus23
reply to post by muzzleflash

 

I do not deny a possible Sumerian connection to the Native Americans, nor do I question the veracity of your research.
It is quite sufficient.

The Crespi collection is interesting, but all that can be derived from it is interpretive speculation.

In fact the entire premise of your thread is based upon pure speculation.

The essence of my point lies in the fact that the Babylonian mysteries are solely defined by interpretations of symbols.
Interpretations and nothing more.
Nothing concrete can be identified that ties the history of this shadowy collection of unknown individuals to a present day force that can be squarely recognized

Whereas with Rome, we are all subjects in the jurisdiction of the Holy See.

Every law on our books can be traced to Roman origin, more specifically the law of the twelve tables.

Our current system of credits and debits is the exact same system that was established in Rome.

Sure, you can say that this system was first established in Sumeria, but you are basing this information on texts that were interpreted under the aupices of Roman Western intellectuals.

Our calender is of Roman origin.
The Roman Empire has been telling us how to keep time throughout all of recorded history.
To deny this is to once again speculate based upon information given to us by Roman historians.

Our entire system of labeling every known living organism in modern science is of Roman origin.
Genus/species/etc....

Our military is both organized in Roman fashion and taught Roman techniques of battle....
And this imaginary "illuminati" that is so often referenced is actually the Roman empire using the technique perfected by Julius Caesar of divide and conquer.

And oh.....religion.....

That is the biggest scam of all perpetrated by Rome.

All modern monothesitic religions were foisted onto the people by Rome.

This is proven, valid, and noted history my friend.

What you offer is well thought speculation, and I commend you for it, but it is mere speculation.

Open your eyes and look at society.

We live in Rome.
It never went away.

For any who wish to make the comparison click on the link in my signature.
I cannot do the tome that is that thread justice in one comment.

I am not taking away from your post muzzleflash.

You obviously put a ton of work into this and I commend you for it, but you are barking up the wrong tree.

Rome can be PROVEN.

Mystery Babylon is well....
A Mystery.

Cheers.

edit on 1/3/2012 by Josephus23 because: BLAH!

fanastic synopsis

and ROME loves when people focus on skull and bones, or jesuits or illuminati or mystery babylon or whatever other 30 parties involved

fronts upon front upon fronts where the obvious truth is staring you in the face

no one is bowing to some babylonian priest in public...but they are to a roman catholic pope. no one is denying babylonian cult practices or symbolism but its amazing to me how fooled people are still by what "ROME" is

they did a great job!

Originally posted by SuperTripps

and ROME loves when people focus on skull and bones, or jesuits or illuminati or mystery babylon or whatever other 30 parties involved

fronts upon front upon fronts where the obvious truth is staring you in the face

no one is bowing to some babylonian priest in public...but they are to a roman catholic pope. no one is denying babylonian cult practices or symbolism but its amazing to me how fooled people are still by what "ROME" is

they did a great job!

Please explain a little more if you don't mind, your post has me intrigued.

Who is "They"?
The nobility? The occult organizations? The state?
All in the same?

What is the 'obvious truth'?

What are people fooled about by 'what Rome is'?

And can you explain what the differences are between Babylonian priests and Roman priests?

Sorry for all the questions and thanks.

This is my retelling of the original myth after collecting many various sources around the internet and although I may be off slightly on some of this, this is the myth as I understand and interpret it. So take it with a
grain of salt. I do not know if this myth is true, but apparently the majority of Occult organizations believe it is true and hold it as a secret in many instances.

Cush, (son of Ham, or grandson of Noah) was married to Semiramis. They became rulers of the original great city. Cush died but his wife Semiramis gave birth to their son, Nimrod. Semiramis then married Nimrod her son.

Shem, son of Noah and founder of the Semite lineage, killed Nimrod and cut his body into (12?) pieces. Semiramis told her followers that in order to bring him back to life, she needed to recover these pieces and reconstruct his body. They found all pieces except for one, his genitals.

Therefore Semiramis told the people that Nimrod had ascended to the Sun and became the "Sun God" named "Ba'al". She then became pregnant with a son, and claimed that the 'rays of the sun god' had impregnated her, and declared she was a virgin. This son's name was Tammuz.

Semiramis declared that she was born from an Egg (the Ishtar Egg) which fell from the Moon which she declared was the Goddess, and it fell into the Euphrates River and hatched. She was also referred to as the 'Golden Dove'(
columbam auream ). The 'Ishtar Egg' festival was celebrated on the first full moon after the Spring Equinox.

Her son Tammuz became a hunter, but was killed by a wild pig/boar and his blood was spilt upon a pine tree stump, and his blood caused the tree to regrow fully within one night. By the way Tammuz was also said to be very fond of rabbits. Semiramis then added the significance of pine trees, rabbits, and the nature of pigs.

Semiramis declared that Tammuz had ascended to his father the Sun God (Ba'al, Nimrod), and was to be revered through candles or flames; and thus created the sacred 'trinity' of Father (Sun), Son (Tammuz), and Spirit.

Semiramis had her followers worship the 'mysteries of Ba'al and Tammuz' by eating a cake and drinking blood from a cup, while making the 'T' or 't' symbol over their chest. This explains why the cross or 't' symbol is found
throughout all cultures.

Some of these Semiramis beliefs sound like Christianity and the birth of Christ. Unless you are of the Patrick heron type of people who say these Gods were fallen angels thrown down to the earth to lead mankind astray. William of Orange dope traffickers that enslave people today to a Zeus style empire.

Nice post S&F for this

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by SuperTripps

and ROME loves when people focus on skull and bones, or jesuits or illuminati or mystery babylon or whatever other 30 parties involved

fronts upon front upon fronts where the obvious truth is staring you in the face

no one is bowing to some babylonian priest in public...but they are to a roman catholic pope. no one is denying babylonian cult practices or symbolism but its amazing to me how fooled people are still by what "ROME" is

they did a great job!

Please explain a little more if you don't mind, your post has me intrigued.

Who is "They"?
The nobility? The occult organizations? The state?
All in the same?

What is the 'obvious truth'?

What are people fooled about by 'what Rome is'?

And can you explain what the differences are between Babylonian priests and Roman priests?

Sorry for all the questions and thanks.

muzzle...come on..you know these answers.

did you ever read the whole ROME thread? do it..well worth it

again, Rome consolidated all the cults IMO as it built its new world empire ...then officially codified it with the roman catholic church in 300s ad...and the thing known as "roman empire" went underground as the elites, etc were allowed to think or act like they were running things by the middle ages via bloodlines, etc

when things need to be "adjusted" they send in their their various fronts of the day whether templars, jesuits, sun cult worshipers, mithra worshipers, you name it

there is obviously a strong jewish/hebrew and anglo saxon/norman influence in there over years as well as one can see in the rothschild/rockefeller developments with the banking system, energy system ( as well as vatican bank)
thats my opinion anyway. I guess there is something to say for this Jesuit influence as a main control...as well- someone posted that video presentation found it pretty cool.

the point is people are arguing over all these names or fronts over all these years...and arguing over all these cult influences ...where the one thing in the modern ages that ties them all together is the continued power and utter dominance of the "Roman Empire"

i see it everywhere. i love ROME! Long live Rome! they really nailed it!

Originally posted by SuperTripps

again, Rome consolidated all the cults IMO as it built its new world empire ...then officially codified it with the roman catholic church in 300s ad...and the thing known as "roman empire" went underground as the elites, etc were allowed to think or act like they were running things by the middle ages via bloodlines, etc

"All the cults"?

So you are saying that in 300s ad, that Rome consolidated the Chinese, Polynesian, Indian, and North/South American cults?

I would beg to differ.

They haven't even accomplished that here in 2012 ad either.
Perhaps you are missing the entire point of this discussion?

-Every other empire treated Jews and Christians badly after Christ was put on the cross.
-The Catholics did their requisitions, but since then not much has happened apart from..
-Mussolini who was an Italian in Italy and a non religious Fascist.
-Babylon is Iraq in terms of place name and location unless of course it symbolises the cities of the world.
-Some says Mecca has Seven hills.
-Could the last empire be Euro-Arabian?
-It is becoming a reality that Muslims want to take over Rome and the Vatican because it is their prophecy to do so.
-It is a reality that the West is influencing freedom in Arab countries without implementing Christianity as an alternative.
Islam beheads Christains and imprison them, they live and die by the sword.

Revelation 13

10 “If anyone is to go into captivity,
into captivity they will go.
If anyone is to be killed with the sword,
with the sword they will be killed.”

This calls for patient endurance and faithfulness on the part of God’s people.
Text

The current swordsmen are the Arabians who live and die by the sword, their national flags have swords their justice system is by the sword or decapitation, of course things could change, who says if Europe does adopt some sharia law systems that will come into play, not like they are doing much to stop it.

Islamic prophecy expects their Jesus/Isa to turn up near Damascus and help kill off the Jews and Christians who do not do as he says, so by this we ask who is such a figure in Bible prophecy? 1.2 Billion followers would do his job to help this Muslim Jesus turn the world Islamic in mass execution and war.

I do not see the Chatholic threat being as serious as this, even the secret societies have more power and influence in the world but they do not have nations and people who would kill us because it is the religious thing to do.

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by SuperTripps

again, Rome consolidated all the cults IMO as it built its new world empire ...then officially codified it with the roman catholic church in 300s ad...and the thing known as "roman empire" went underground as the elites, etc were allowed to think or act like they were running things by the middle ages via bloodlines, etc

"All the cults"?

So you are saying that in 300s ad, that Rome consolidated the Chinese, Polynesian, Indian, and North/South American cults?

I would beg to differ.

They haven't even accomplished that here in 2012 ad either.
Perhaps you are missing the entire point of this discussion?

they consolidated all the cults that mattered around their large empire


years later as Spain, Portugal, Brits conquered rest of world they did the same thing with their crusader "knights"
although mostly just crushing them

there is also the very real possibility these Roman legions planted fake quetzacoatal style false flags in multiple areas down there

i also believe rome was in Brazil very early on as I posted that info on the rome board.they even planted their big JESUS statue in RIO as a sign of their dominance.

reply to post by JB1234


i addressed the issue of moses and the timeline earlier. also, there are 70 nations in genesis 10, so clearly there's a reason. as that site i linked you to indicated, a copy of deutoronomy found in the dead sea scrolls, also called them beney elohim (sons of god), which scholars typically view as angels, not humans.

here's a recap of moses' timeline on this topic.

ISRAEL was set aside to be watched over by the archangel michael. this little tidbit of data, completely befuddled staunch believers who felt the text of the deutero-canonical books contained no errors and were written entirely by moses. but if that were so, how did moses write about isreal being presided over by michael the archangel when it wasn't even a country at the time of babel and wouldn't be for a very long time. seeing as how the text there is speaking as if it is moses himself explaining the history of babel, retrospectively, the question has grown into different possible explanations, for example:

1) that moses wrote it and someone edited it later and put the israel reference in there

2) israel already existed but that part hasn't been revealed in the text of the deutoro-canonical books. it's always been assumed it was created on the spot, for jacob. that may be a huge assumption! it may have originally been a title of power not necessarily a land title

3) that israel was the name of that particular geographical land before the flood, and jacob inherited the land title. if this is the case, moses could say that israel would be watched over by michael the archangel without any reservations (this would assume he knew the land was called israel before the flood), because the 70 archangels had been assigned TERRITORIES anyway. the idea being that we assume this particular subject meant the actual lineage of the people of israel when it may mean anyone who lives in the territory of israel, which by default would later include jacob and his descendants (this particular approach needs more research) and which the text verifies

4) that somebody else wrote it, retrospectively, based on prior unknown texts or oral traditions and someone else edited it later.

michael s. heiser, writes on various sources that help to flesh out the meaning such as the ugaritic texts of EL and his 70 sons
here's an excerpt

Literary and conceptual parallels discovered in the literature

of Ugarit, however, have provided a more coherent explanation for

the number seventy in Deuteronomy 32:8 and have furnished sup-

port for textual scholars who argue against the "sons of Israel"

reading. Ugaritic mythology plainly states that the head of its pan-

theon, El (who, like the God of the Bible, is also referred to as El

Elyon, the "Most High") fathered seventy sons, thereby specifying

the number of the "sons of El" (Ugaritic, bn il). An unmistakable

linguistic parallel with the Hebrew text underlying the Septuagint

reading was thus discovered, one that prompted many scholars to

accept the Septuagintal reading on logical and philological

grounds--God (El Elyon in Deut. 32:8) divided the earth according

to the number of heavenly beings who existed from before the time

of creation. The coherence of this explanation notwithstanding,

some commentators resist the reading of the Septuagint, at least in

part because they fear that an acceptance of the Myhlx ynb or Mylx ynb

readings (both of which may be translated "sons of gods") means that

Yahweh is the author of polytheism. This apprehension

has prompted some text-critical defenses of the Masoretic text in

Deuteronomy 32:812 based on a misunderstanding of both the tex-

tual history of the Hebrew Bible and text-critical methodology, a

prejudiced evaluation of non-Masoretic texts, and an unfounded

concern that departure from, the Masoretic reading results in "Isra-

elite polytheism." The goal of this article is to show that viewing

"sons of God" as the correct reading in Deuteronomy 32:8 in no way

requires one to view Israelite religion as polytheistic.

/end. you can read the entire commentary by heiser here
faculty.gordon.edu...

First of OP Excellent job!

You are not only 100% correct about the pagan trinity of all religions, but you even fully understand that Babylon is the whole modern civilization around us, not just religion, not just the USA.

Honestly I am amazed that you were able to arrive at these truths in the maner you had, it speaks volumes of your ability to tediously research and comprehend.

As for a debate I read and would like to chime in on:

The 70 angels that aided in the scattering of nations pertains to the 70 great grandsons of Noah which were the patriarchs of their respective families at the time of Peleg and the destruction of the Tower of Babel. God assigned 1 angel to each family and guided their peoples to the land which God had intended for them to live.

Essentially every human on Earth today can trace their liniage to one of these 70 architypes of cultures. All of which were together in Babylon under the rule of Nimrod and Semerimis. When God caused each of the 70 families to speak a different tongue and them seperated them away from each other physically, the names and stories about the false religious system of Babylon began to take a slightly different shape in each unique family dynamic. Over time each of the 70 primary cultures of mankind would spin a never ending web of myths into one overall system, which rebels against God.

Mystery Babylon is false religion AND a false society based off of idolizing power in the form of money.

Any religion that adds to scripture i.e. adds Christmas (NImrod's birthday and the re-birth of the sun God), adds Easter (Feastival of Easter/Istar, egg feast of Semerimis), adds SUNday worship (Day of the Sun God); OR takes away from scripture i.e. takes away Gods ordained Holy Day forever (Passover, Pentecost, Atonement etc.), takes away the 7th day Sabbth which is to be "forever a SIGN (Hebrew word for MARK) of who God's people are". Is false religion and is not what Jesus Christ kept himself as an example of salvation.

The details of this posting are endless, OP you have done so well I only hope you can continue on this train of research, now that you understand this the totality of all truth is at your doorstep if you have "eyes to see and ears to hear", truely I tell you, you are so very close to finding the truth you seek in all things through God.

God Bless,

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by SuperTripps

again, Rome consolidated all the cults IMO as it built its new world empire ...then officially codified it with the roman catholic church in 300s ad...and the thing known as "roman empire" went underground as the elites, etc were allowed to think or act like they were running things by the middle ages via bloodlines, etc

"All the cults"?

So you are saying that in 300s ad, that Rome consolidated the Chinese, Polynesian, Indian, and North/South American cults?

I would beg to differ.

They haven't even accomplished that here in 2012 ad either.
Perhaps you are missing the entire point of this discussion?

i tried , boy did i try, to explain this same thing to protoplasmic traveler, who authored the ALL ROADS LEAD TO ROME thread, but he insisted that any extant texts or artifacts of those places were what was left over after rome invaded them and wiped out anything they didn't want to incorporate. (i even mentioned sumerian-akkadian data, asking how it was possible for rome to have control over and editing powers over, texts and artifacts that had been buried for thousands of years before rome existed and 200+ years before babylon existed)

i then suggested that considering our current universities teach a strictly atheist view of history, wouldn't they be adding and abetting Rome, to suggest their archaeology departments were ignoring the implications, and this would include the data that even the enlightenment atheists didn't have available, such as the sumerian-akkadian texts and artifacts, which are really a sore spot for atheists and religious people alike.

reply to post by undo


There is a huge amount of argument as to whether Deut 32:7, 8 is referring to sons of men ie sons of Israel or sons of Gods or whether the number 70 was significant and indeed in the original song.

I think the traditional rendition is far more likely and that this song of Moses referred to the boundaries being apportioned into 12 tribal lands.

The point has NOT been answered as to why the word "scattered" in Genesis is used concerning how the different language groups spread out over all the earth. It is used on 3 occasions in regard to Nimrod and the people who attempted to build the tower of Babel before their languages were confused.

(Genesis 11:4-9) . . .They now said: “Come on! Let us build ourselves a city and also a tower with its top in the heavens, and let us make a celebrated name for ourselves, for fear we may be scattered over all the surface of the earth.” 5 And Jehovah proceeded to go down to see the city and the tower that the sons of men had built. 6 After that Jehovah said: “Look! They are one people and there is one language for them all, and this is what they start to do. Why, now there is nothing that they may have in mind to do that will be unattainable for them. 7 Come now! Let us go down and there confuse their language that they may not listen to one another’s language.” 8 Accordingly Jehovah scattered them from there over all the surface of the earth, and they gradually left off building the city. 9 That is why its name was called Ba′bel, because there Jehovah had confused the language of all the earth, and Jehovah had scattered them from there over all the surface of the earth.

If Jehovah directed angels to deliver all the different language groups to their chosen destinations as apportioned nations and watch over them, then why does this passage of scripture not include those details? Why would a God who had just confused Nimrod and his follower's languages to stop them constructing again a similar pre-deluvian world that "ruined the earth in the sight of God" wish to protect these people and organise them. The very word Babel means "confusion" and is the OPPOSITE of order.

These people wanted to worship and do things their own way. They weren't interested in what God wanted them to do.

On another occasion the word scattered is used in a sense whereby people find their own way somewhere - they are not directed. Take the case of the Israelite slaves in Egypt labouring to make straw & mud bricks. Pharoah decided to add to their burdens

(Exodus 5:10-12) . . .So those who drove the people to work and their officers went out and said to the people: “Here is what Phar′aoh has said, ‘I am giving YOU no more straw. 11 YOU yourselves go, get straw for yourselves wherever YOU may find it, because there is to be no reducing of YOUR services one bit.’” 12 Consequently the people scattered about over all the land of Egypt to gather stubble for straw.

In Exodus the word scattered is used to signify the Israelites were now expected to go & find straw from "wherever" they "may find it". In just the same manner surely the word "scattered" in Genesis 11 4 to 9 denotes nations spreading out across the globe "wherever they found themselves to be"