All Roads Lead to Babylon : Mystery Babylon Demystified

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by something wicked
reply to post by muzzleflash

 

Wow, you surmised all this in a week? Interesting. There's a lot you have posted here that I will look over, but the Mona Lisa piece? It's historically known who he was painting and I'm afraid that is a little bit of a weak link. Whether you think this is a coincidence is a little pointless - he was commissioned to paint a lady and did so, anything else is nothing but speculation - would you agree?

Yes I agree it's speculation. However I dispute the claims that it was innocuous and not important for various reasons.
And again that was just my personal opinion.

1) It looks just like the other iconography.
2) It's the 'most famous painting in the world', for no apparent reason.
3) The 'authorities' made it into what it is today, and maintain it's famous prestige. (why?)
4) These are the same people that build a pyramid and put countless references to the same figure everywhere around the location where the painting is kept. ( Musée du Louvre )

There are other reasons as well. I don't know it just seems totally unreasonable to think that such a mundane painting became the most famous one in history. There are so many other great paintings that get no attention and I find that odd.

It was just something I thought of while comparing the painting to the Statue of Liberty, and those noses looked so similar. Maybe I am wrong, but at the same time, since we don't exactly have photographs to prove otherwise, there is a slight chance I am right.

1. Well, it would look like an icon because technically, it is, as are all portraits. The sacred aspect is a subset of the word, take a look in any dictionary.
2. If it's the most famous painting in the world, it's because it's thought of as one of the most perfect examples of its type.
3. The 'authorities' made it famous and maintain its prestige? What's all that about? The louvre might, but they have an obvious vested interest.
4. I really can't see what your point is. Of course there will be a lot of references to the Mona Lisa in the Louvre - it's what an awful lot of people go there to see - what point are you trying to make?

You may find the Mona Lisa mundane and have other preferences. That is absolutely fine, a lot of people think differently and it's as much about the artist as witnessed by the recent sale of another piece of his work.

"It was just something I thought of while comparing the painting to the Statue of Liberty, and those noses looked so similar. Maybe I am wrong, but at the same time, since we don't exactly have photographs to prove otherwise, there is a slight chance I am right"

We don't have photos of what? Google images will return you several thousand photos of both - are you suggesting something else?

Originally posted by something wicked

We don't have photos of what? Google images will return you several thousand photos of both - are you suggesting something else?

You have a photo of the original individual that supposedly inspired it ( Lisa del Giocondo )?
I didn't know they had cameras in 1505.


Anyways this Wiki reveals you are wrong:

Da Vinci used a pyramid design to place the woman simply and calmly in the space of the painting. Her folded hands form the front corner of the pyramid. Her breast, neck and face glow in the same light that models her hands. The light gives the variety of living surfaces an underlying geometry of spheres and circles. Da Vinci referred to a seemingly simple formula for seated female figure: the images of seated Madonna, which were widespread at the time.

Mona Lisa
Madonna (art)

So he did actually base it on this iconography.

reply to post by undo


Well that's a different Book of Deutoronomy that I've read!

Nimrod was a son of Semiramis and Cush, who was a son a Ham who survived the Deluge. Therefore Nimrod was a great grandson of Noah.

ANY beleifs in Pagan Deities that pre-dated Nimrod, therefore must pre-date the deluge. Muzzle specifically said he was avoiding discussing this aspect and the Nephilim & Fallen Angels etc because it would no doubt open the debate up much wider. Suffice to say that no doubt Noah and his sons Ham, Shem & Japheth would have handed down to their descendents much information regarding the deluge and what had gone on previously.

The Demons who were also stopped from materialising after the flood were angered by the death of their sons the Nephilim. The most sacred day of the occult is now Halloween -

The Encyclopedia Americana says: “Elements of the customs connected with Halloween can be traced to a Druid ceremony in pre-Christian times. The Celts had festivals for two major gods—a sun god and a god of the dead (called Samhain), whose festival was held on November 1, the beginning of the Celtic New Year. The festival of the dead was gradually incorporated into Christian ritual.”—(1977), Vol. 13, p. 725.

The book The Worship of the Dead points to this origin: “The mythologies of all the ancient nations are interwoven with the events of the Deluge . . . The force of this argument is illustrated by the fact of the observance of a great festival of the dead in commemoration of the event, not only by nations more or less in communication with each other, but by others widely separated, both by the ocean and by centuries of time. This festival is, moreover, held by all on or about the very day on which, according to the Mosaic account, the Deluge took place, viz., the seventeenth day of the second month—the month nearly corresponding with our November.” (London, 1904, Colonel J. Garnier, p. 4) Thus these celebrations actually began with an honoring of people whom God had destroyed because of their badness in Noah’s day.—Gen. 6:5-7; 7:11.

We've already heard from the various sources that the Babylonian account of Nimrod, Semiramis and Tammuz forms part of the Occult Mystery of Babylon. Nimrod's rebelliousness and determination to rebel against the worship of the true God and build a tower that would supposedly be taller than any deluge as a form of punishment set a marker for ALL mankind who opposed the worship of Jehovah. Nimrod became a focus that Satan and the demon's could base their whole basis of alternative worship, that mankind could follow that was in direct opposition to the worship of God.

One of the cleverest tricks that the occult has used is to mimic true worship, twist and pervert it - and we see that by the Holy Roman Empire adopting Babylonish/Pagan rites into their adopted true religion "Christianity".

(2 Thessalonians 2:3-4) 3 Let no one seduce YOU in any manner, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction. 4 He is set in opposition and lifts himself up over everyone who is called “god” or an object of reverence, so that he sits down in the temple of The God, publicly showing himself to be a god. . .

Getting back on track to Nimrod, here's some more info I found on him and it's not all from Biblical accounts.

Nimrod: Son of Cush. (1Ch 1:10) The rabbinic writings derived the name Nimrod from the Hebrew verb ma‧radh′, meaning “rebel.” Thus, the Babylonian Talmud (Erubin 53a) states: “Why, then, was he called Nimrod? Because he stirred up the whole world to rebel (himrid) against His [God’s] sovereignty.”—Encyclopedia of Biblical Interpretation, by Menahem M. Kasher, Vol. II, 1955, p. 79.

Josephus actually added meat to the bone about Nimrod and the reason he built the tower of Babel, which none of us know exactly where this occured. The City was called Babel - perhaps that City became Babylon, but none of us can be sure. Ziggurat towers have been found elsewhere, which no doubt the Biblical description of "tower" alluded to.

The beginning of Nimrod’s kingdom included the cities of Babel, Erech, Accad, and Calneh, all in the land of Shinar. (Ge 10:10) Therefore it was likely under his direction that the building of Babel and its tower began. This conclusion is also in agreement with the traditional Jewish view. Wrote Josephus: “[Nimrod] little by little transformed the state of affairs into a tyranny, holding that the only way to detach men from the fear of God was by making them continuously dependent upon his own power. He threatened to have his revenge on God if He wished to inundate the earth again; for he would build a tower higher than the water could reach and avenge the destruction of their forefathers. The people were eager to follow this advice of [Nimrod], deeming it slavery to submit to God; so they set out to build the tower . . . and it rose with a speed beyond all expectation.”—Jewish Antiquities, I, 114, 115 (iv, 2, 3)

It appears that after the building of the Tower of Babel, Nimrod extended his domain to the territory of Assyria and there built “Nineveh and Rehoboth-Ir and Calah and Resen between Nineveh and Calah: this is the great city.” (Ge 10:11, 12; compare Mic 5:6.) Since Assyria evidently derived its name from Shem’s son Asshur, Nimrod, as a grandson of Ham, must have invaded Shemite territory. So it would seem that Nimrod made the start in becoming a mighty one or hero, not only as a hunter of animals but also as a warrior, a man of aggression. (Ge 10:8) Observes the Cyclopaedia by M’Clintock and Strong: “That the mighty hunting was not confined to the chase is apparent from its close connection with the building of eight cities. . . . What Nimrod did in the chase as a hunter was the earlier token of what he achieved as a conqueror. For hunting and heroism were of old specially and naturally associated . . .

The Assyrian monuments also picture many feats in hunting, and the word is often employed to denote campaigning. . . . The chase and the battle, which in the same country were connected so closely in aftertimes, may therefore be virtually associated or identified here. The meaning then will be, that Nimrod was the first after the flood to found a kingdom, to unite the fragments of scattered patriarchal rule, and consolidate them under himself as sole head and master; and all this in defiance of Jehovah, for it was the violent intrusion of Hamitic power into a Shemitic territory.”—1894, Vol. VII, p. 109.

edit on 3-1-2012 by JB1234 because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by something wicked

We don't have photos of what? Google images will return you several thousand photos of both - are you suggesting something else?

You have a photo of the original individual that supposedly inspired it ( Lisa del Giocondo )?
I didn't know they had cameras in 1505.

Anyways this Wiki reveals you are wrong:

Da Vinci used a pyramid design to place the woman simply and calmly in the space of the painting. Her folded hands form the front corner of the pyramid. Her breast, neck and face glow in the same light that models her hands. The light gives the variety of living surfaces an underlying geometry of spheres and circles. Da Vinci referred to a seemingly simple formula for seated female figure: the images of seated Madonna, which were widespread at the time.

Mona Lisa
Madonna (art)

So he did actually base it on this iconography.

I really didn't think you'd mean a photo of the original model, but I couldn't relate to what that would prove as fairly obviously the designer of the statue of liberty wouldn't have either, hence I couldn't see your point.

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by LightAssassin
reply to post by muzzleflash

 

Bookmarking for later, had a quick read, impressive yet again.

Make sure to check Section VII.
It's very hard hitting and there are TONS of correlations just like this to be found globally.
It's mind blowing for sure!

I could have made this thread 10 times larger but I am really tired and wanted to get it out sooner rather than later.
For the sake of simplicity I am going to just go with what I have created here. I am tired now and need to rest a bit.

edit on 2-1-2012 by muzzleflash because: (no reason given)

I have already known about this stuff for over a year now, I am just happy some people are finally waking up. The information was awesome btw. Just remember everything is connected to everything, there are double meanings for everything including the Hebrew Alphabet, astrology, the planets, colors, and so on. Have fun!

reply to post by muzzleflash


I do not deny a possible Sumerian connection to the Native Americans, nor do I question the veracity of your research.
It is quite sufficient.

The Crespi collection is interesting, but all that can be derived from it is interpretive speculation.

In fact the entire premise of your thread is based upon pure speculation.

The essence of my point lies in the fact that the Babylonian mysteries are solely defined by interpretations of symbols.
Interpretations and nothing more.
Nothing concrete can be identified that ties the history of this shadowy collection of unknown individuals to a present day force that can be squarely recognized

Whereas with Rome, we are all subjects in the jurisdiction of the Holy See.

Every law on our books can be traced to Roman origin, more specifically the law of the twelve tables.

Our current system of credits and debits is the exact same system that was established in Rome.

Sure, you can say that this system was first established in Sumeria, but you are basing this information on texts that were interpreted under the aupices of Roman Western intellectuals.

Our calender is of Roman origin.
The Roman Empire has been telling us how to keep time throughout all of recorded history.
To deny this is to once again speculate based upon information given to us by Roman historians.

Our entire system of labeling every known living organism in modern science is of Roman origin.
Genus/species/etc....

Our military is both organized in Roman fashion and taught Roman techniques of battle....
And this imaginary "illuminati" that is so often referenced is actually the Roman empire using the technique perfected by Julius Caesar of divide and conquer.

And oh.....religion.....

That is the biggest scam of all perpetrated by Rome.

All modern monothesitic religions were foisted onto the people by Rome.

This is proven, valid, and noted history my friend.

What you offer is well thought speculation, and I commend you for it, but it is mere speculation.

Open your eyes and look at society.

We live in Rome.
It never went away.

For any who wish to make the comparison click on the link in my signature.
I cannot do the tome that is that thread justice in one comment.

I am not taking away from your post muzzleflash.

You obviously put a ton of work into this and I commend you for it, but you are barking up the wrong tree.

Rome can be PROVEN.

Mystery Babylon is well....
A Mystery.

Cheers.

Libertas

Libertas (Latin for Liberty) was the Roman goddess and embodiment of liberty.

Columbia of U.S.A., Marianne of France, the Statue of Liberty and many others are actually embodiments of Libertas. See Liberty.

So that's the US and France's personifications.

Check out Britannia and Germania.

Also see the "Goddess of Democracy"

Also notice on the wikipedia for Columbia that is wrongly and misleadingly claims that it's based off Chris Columbus.

You can go look in any Latin dictionary :
Columbae = "Of a Dove"
Columba = "The Dove"
Columbus = "Dove"
Columbas (or columbis) = "Doves"

He was born in Genoa, and his real name at birth was most likely:
Genoese:

Christoffa Corombo

wiki

And in Italian they called him "Colombo" which means "Pigeon", and in Spanish they called him "Colón" which translates to "Columbus"- "Dove".

Now we already went through what the Dove represents, where the symbolism came from, Semiramis ad absurdum.

So actually Columbia should be correctly translated as to mean "Land of the Dove".

Originally posted by liliththedestroyer
Just remember everything is connected to everything, there are double meanings for everything including the Hebrew Alphabet, astrology, the planets, colors, and so on. Have fun!

That's exactly the premise I am working with!
And yes it is very fun to learn about all of these subjects! Thanks!

reply to post by Josephus23


I am not denying that there are direct Roman influences in almost all aspects of the world today, but that is akin to a more recent layer on top of a deeper layer which is easily shown to be of Sumerian origins.

Also one of the main pivots of my insinuation is that the Occult orders and organizations are actually knowingly practicing this 'mystery religion' and orchestrating the outside 'religions' that we see from behind closed doors.

Just a simple example of how the lineage can be traced is through the Roman secret cult of the Mithraic mysteries, which go further back to Persia and further back from there.

This is easily shown through comparative analysis of various aspects of all of the evidence. It's far more than pure speculation, it is only partially speculation whereas much of it is essentially provable with rock hard stone evidence.

We can create a hypothesis, show a form of experimentation, and then others can repeat it for themselves after having the tools to do so on their own. There is much more scientific (repeatable) basis within these varied disciplines than many give credit for I am afraid.

This is not ultimate proof, but neither is the theory of gravity. Point is, if this were a court trial, I would have a conviction beyond any reasonable doubts at this point. People get put away for far less evidence than this.

reply to post by JB1234


oh i know nimrod's history. not sure what part of my post you are disagreeing with. what i'm establishing or trying to, for researchers, is there's even more to the story. we're talking hundreds of years of data just for him, so naturally it's not going to be summarized very effectively with the condensed version we have available today. torah was highly condensed. skimmed the most important parts to them but left out some details that help further flesh out the story.

here you go, some info on the divine council
www.herealittletherealittle.net...

and if you explain what part about nimrod that you dont recognize or agree with, i'll get that info for ya too.

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by JB1234

 

oh i know nimrod's history.

That's absurd. No one knows it because no one was there.

We have debates over it because it's controversial and up for dispute.

We can't even agree on what types of facts can or cannot be established.
All we have to work with here are legends and ancient writings or art about it, which were created at later times.

I'm just watching this video from Alex Jones about The Bohemian Grove and what World Leaders and the Elite are up to woshipping at the feet - and worse! - of a Babylonian/Sumerian Owl God Molech. It's just all quite scary, thanks so much muzzle for this thread and all the information you provided for us to do some more research.

Alex Jones - Dark Secrets: Inside Bohemian Grove

Google Video Link

Klaus Dona has assembled many out of place artifacts that prove a Sumerian Link to the Americas as well as allsorts of anomalies. I find his slide shows fascinating. He will be speaking at the Megalithomania Conference in Glastonbury in 2012 and I may well try and attend this.

Highly recommended viewing Klaus Dona: The Hidden History of The Human Race (March 2010)

Sure, you can say that this system was first established in Sumeria

reply to post by Josephus23


no, i don't think so. sumer is not babylon, although sumerian eridu then buried under 8 feet of flood silt, was the site of the later tower of babel. the code of hammurabi was not sumerian, for example. sumer ends the minute the black sea flood starts. after that, the land is repopulated, presumably by the survivors of the deluge, who all spoke the same language. it's somewhere in this timeframe, that the law texts start showing up.

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by JB1234

 

oh i know nimrod's history.

That's absurd. No one knows it because no one was there.

We have debates over it because it's controversial and up for dispute.

We can't even agree on what types of facts can or cannot be established.
All we have to work with here are legends and ancient writings or art about it, which were created at later times.

i believe almost everything said about him so far, on this thread, is accurate.
what's your beef with my info?

Originally posted by undo


i believe almost everything said about him so far, on this thread, is accurate.
what's your beef with my info?

Sorry it was just semantics.
"Accurate to our knowledge", yes perhaps.

I just like to keep back doors open that leave room for alternative possibilities, that's all.
But at the same time we need to define alternatives and if we cannot, we have to go with what we have until then.

Klaus Dona has assembled many out of place artifacts that prove a Sumerian Link to the Americas

reply to post by JB1234


which gets into the really big questions that the op wants to avoid and i'm resisting the urge
to post lol

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by undo


i believe almost everything said about him so far, on this thread, is accurate.
what's your beef with my info?

Sorry it was just semantics.
"Accurate to our knowledge", yes perhaps.

I just like to keep back doors open that leave room for alternative possibilities, that's all.

i was responding to jb, who was telling me the history of nimrod so far as if i didn't have the data, and i thought i'd save him having to recount all of it to me, as the info i'm offering is in addition to the commonly known stuff. check the link i provided to jb in my response to him. there's some fun stuff right there. it's one page, on the single topic of the mention of the divine council in deutoronomy.

Originally posted by undo

Klaus Dona has assembled many out of place artifacts that prove a Sumerian Link to the Americas

reply to post by JB1234

 

which gets into the really big questions that the op wants to avoid and i'm resisting the urge
to post lol

I won't be mad if you post it, but at least try to define the differentiation between alien, hybrid, or human; or postdiluvian and antediluvian (as best as you possibly can).

That way we won't get things mixed up.
It is really easy to get mixed up with all of these names and events.
But I can't stop you from posting anything. And I won't report you or anything. I'm not like that.

reply to post by muzzleflash


no i agree with you as i have so much data on that subject, i would inadvertently add too much info, overwhelm your readers, and sidetrack. let's stay on the topics you provided.