All Roads Lead to Babylon : Mystery Babylon Demystified

One little gem I found watching some of the videos posted by others on this thread was concerning the number of times Pine Cones or shapes that look like heads of corn appear in the hands of Sumerian & Egyptian/ depictions. Also in South American Sumerian depictions. Which we see echoed in Catholiscm & Freemasonary.

Pinecones Paganism & Catholicism

Anyhow it appears there is a school of thought that actually these are not pine cones being depicted here but a representation of the pineal gland in the human brain, which resembles a pine cone. Because via certain mind bending substances humans can enhance the function of this gland and supposedly talk to beings (Gods) in other dimensions and as they thought speak to the spirits and the dead...in other words it was a pathway to the Gods. Ancient pagan priests and rulers were fed substances that enhanced their pineal gland and increased their escoteric experiences and possibly stop anti aging processes etc working along with the hypothalamus. This according to ancient writings activated the Third eye which is seen as the eye of the soul - the key to their escoteric self... and we see this 3rd eye in Pyramids everywhere and infact in Freemasonary & to this day 10 $ bills.



Obviously ALL open to debate but nevertheless fascinating.

This led me to watch Laurence Gardner's video on You Tube "Lost secrets of the Ark" and all about Monoatomic Gold & other exotic elements, which someone posted earlier in the thread. Mindblowing stuff! Literally if the Ancients had this white powder at their disposal no wonder they were technologically advanced possessing this superconductor with amazing properties. This substance science now says can be used to bend & levitate matter etc It also as medicinal uses that can possibly cure sicknesses and enhance the brain function and the immune system.

What also I found really interesting in the video is that Gardner mentioned a scripture concerning Moses & what happened when he came down the mountain. Whilst he had been gone the Israelites (plus all the Egyptians that left Egypt with them).... had made Aaron melt down all their gold jewellery and from the molten Gold make a great golden calf on an altar in the wilderness. So that they could worship and ask for protections as they'd been used to seeing the Egyptians do when they resided in Egypt.

Moses then came down from the Mountain in a blaze of anger and smashed the stone tablets on which were written the Commandments..... Nothing new there.....we all know the Bible account

However what I'd never noted before was the next part of what Moses states.......(Exodus 32:20) . . ."Then he took the calf that they had made and he burnt it with fire and crushed it till it was fine, after which he scattered it upon the surface of the waters and made the sons of Israel drink it"

As Gardner points out... how odd?. If Gold is heated as far as I know it just reverts to being in it's liquid state. You can't crush Gold and turn it into a fine powder can you by heating it? It was so fine that this was sprinkled on water, if you note so it floated "upon the surface of the waters", which Gold doesn't normally do as it is heavier then water. Moses then made the Israelites drink the water along with this substance.

Also what waters is he talking about? Melting Gold doesn't require waters does it? Maybe it was just a nearby stream or their water supplies, or maybe it was other water & liquids required to make this special form of Gold powder?

Gardner also points out that the legends & ancient depictions show Pharoahs used to eat cakes containing a special form of Gold as Mufcut or Myfct. This supposedly had special properties. He claims this is monoatomic gold, which science has only just discovered and only by accident at that.

Moses as we know was raised as a son of Pharoah & the Bible states in Acts 7:22. . ."Consequently Moses was instructed in all the wisdom of the Egyptians. In fact, he was powerful in his words and deeds"

How interesting this all is. Well it is to me anyhow.

Could it be that Moses new the alchemy of the Egyptians required to make monoatomic Gold, which he then gave to the all the people who had left Egypt to imbibe to assist with their journey in the wilderness to the Promised Land?

reply to post by muzzleflash


no you are misunderstanding me...i believe the ROMANS, vikings, phoenicians, whatever..were crossing the oceans earlier than modern history wants people to understand

no doubt there is some amazing connection with the pyramids that popped up all one the world as if one belief/builder system was already worldwide back then

moving forward...when finally one of Rome's legions made it to south america say...the myth and beliefs in white feathered godmen like en.wikipedia.org... already had them backing down..not unlike planting the year 2000/2012 christian armegeddon beliefs. it makes it easier to take over and CORTES had that to his advantage.

I posted one of the few real links left on the roman conspiracy in brazil travel way back then...so just imagine where else they were.

there are obviously some amazing leftovers of the culture who were seafaring, aggressive, into merchant/trade route building...and what later became thee dream and realization of ROME

what I'm saying is why you sit and argue about all these pre-rome civilizations or influence...like some else with big cred here said..you ignore the obvious proofs that all roads in 2012..lead directly to ROME as genesis of modern development in all areas you can think of from building to education to law to the modern day occult knowledge

i agree some type of sumerian/babylonian influence is there...are these people still in control ?? who knows, who cares...they likely learned there stuff from circles directly related to the various Roman front proto identified as well as what others like you have pointed out.

Rome took over history lets admit it and they write the future

Originally posted by muzzleflash
In another thread you claimed this:

Originally posted by SuperTripps

if all roads lead to babylon iraq and iran would be running the world.. OOOPS...

in fact they are lowest on the totem pole

My response::

All cultures derive from Sumeria therefore it doesn't matter which one controls the world, they are all of the same origin anyways.

You are ignoring the evolution and origin of culture, language, government, religion, etc.

Rome is just a step on the ladder of that evolution.
A simplistic and basic example of the evolution works like this (I am skipping many steps in the ladder mind you for the sake of brevity) :

Sumeria ----> Greek ----> Rome ----> Britain / Spain / Dutch / Germany / Portugal / France / Italy ----> American

That is a generalization of the steps from origin to present day. Rome is in the middle of the ladder.
My example pertains to contemporary United States of America and where it's origins derive from.

edit on 4-1-2012 by muzzleflash because: (no reason given)

thats why you need to read the COMPLETE ROME thread and open your mind. You are talking in nice logical steps like on a ladder and now you say all roads lead to sumeria to try and steal our thunder!!

what we are saying who know understand...is that ROME so dominated and by virtue of controlling every area imaginable in the relative modern world at the time...including rewriting the past..that ...wait for it...that ROME just metamorphisized and went invisible so to speak..it used its legions model and basically diversified so that what people like you thought was progress..was actually just a new facade of the old roman empire

old roman powers and elites still got payment, control, etc thru various ways including creating and controlling money and corporations to hide themselves. they created the roman catholic church and others

so rome peaked and then went underground and changed names. nothing has really changed since then. thats the point of the thread he made

lots changed from sumeria to when one could say...ROME was at its height.

so sure no doubt there are babylon, sun cults, mithras, etc built into some of the higher level minions....to say all roads lead there is wrong imo. ROME perfected the almagation of everything at the time. they were throwing up their ARCHES everywhere and just dominating. Sumeria never did.

why keep focusing on very hard to prove things like that...same with atlantis. we got the glory of ROME shining in our eyes everyday. we got this whole "can't talk bad about jews" things in the world too.

and ever since george bush's new world order speech, they have been trying to amp up the game and once again like the serpent change their skin on the outside

reply to post by SuperTripps


The Romans didn't build Pyramids and Ziggurat's all over the World - I think the point of this thread is that this was to demonstrate a much older Sumerian influence across the entire globe that pre dated the Roman Empire.

No one's doubting that there was a mighty empire under Rome, as I live only about 20 miles from Hadrian's Wall and there is a sight of a former Roman Fort only 4 miles from the village I live in, which used to be the original boundary with Scotland further South I can see that the Romans had a huge impact on Britain's landscape and culture.

However prior to the Roman's invading the British Isles - we had the Celts & the Druids et al. THEIR influences with the Celtic Cross, the stone circles, the beleif in the afterlife etc go way back to ancient practices that herald right back to ancient Sumeria.

The Mystery of Babylon & the Occult teachings & practices include many Druid ceremonies but they don't call it the Mystery of Rome because these matters go way back further than the Roman Empire.

There is no doubt that the Romans had a huge influence on their empire but they were also very tolerant of other religions and cultures. As long as their captives agreed to incorporate worship of the Emperor in Rome they didn't insist on former practices being ceased. Eventually the Romans often intermingled their worship with some of the Pagan practices they encountered and we often find that some of their citizens ended up with a pseudo Roman/Sumerian/Pagan beleif system.

Every culture that took Sumerian beleifs on board tweeked & changed those practices & added or renamed the characters and Deities but surely it's no crime to point out that their origins go back to the dawn of man's civilisation after the deluge, hence so many echoes of this ancient path.

reply to post by JB1234


proto in his "all roads lead to rome" thread, tried to make the case that all that history was modified when romans took over the lands. so whether they had info or not, he says, it would be only the info that the romans allowed to survive. a case of the victors write the history.........of the world.

but if you try to demonstrate how that can only be partially right and therefore not applicable in the way he assumes, he points to some unknown high level mason who filled him in on the whole thing , including a plan in which the vatican, having lost interest in ruling a flock of religious people, and after having come to grips with the huge increase in atheism, have decided to actually assist in the genocide of religious people in any way possible, including pitting them against each other with many false flags, outright lies and false rumors, and incitement of people to riot and genocide religious people, even one religious group against the other (particularly abrahamic religions).

he claims the new testament was a fabrication and the prophecies are not prophetical but a long term game plan of how the romans would continue to rule the planet no matter whether the people were religious or not, but eventually, when the time was right, eradicate their own flock of religious people and rule over a planet of atheists, with some allowances for pagan atheism, under yet another proxy identity. in other words, he says the mason told him that the vatican is itself, atheist and just manipulating people and have been doing so for the entirety of written history.

oh yeah and if i remember correctly, i think he tried to say that they also created all the religions on the planet, including judaism. after questioning him further on it, he seemed to back pedal on the vatican angle, and put more focus on ruling families of italy, in particular. et.al, illuminati, but the vatican would fall under the auspices and be part of the same organism, if i understand him correctly. whenever i tried to get him to clarify, he would get agitated with me. at one point he asked the other people in the thread to put me on ignore. lol i was like....."Shunned!" I visualized people turning their backs to me and hanging my head in shame, and then i laughed cause it was that theatrical.

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by ElohimJD

 

this reminds me of peter goodgame's info. you familar with his work? (that you mr. goodgame? )
here's an interview i did with him that was sooo interesting. it's long, and i had laryngitis, lol, this is in .mp3 format. you can either right click and save to desktop and listen or click the link and listen to it in your browser.

ironshow.com...

that's not my website. if you're interested in it, it's ironshow.com but i haven't really
investigated it. peter goodgame's site is different. the ironshow guy has apparently archived
all of peter goodgame's radio shows. peter's site is:www.redmoonrising.com...

edit on 4-1-2012 by undo because: (no reason given)

Hehe

No I am not Mr. Goodgame and have not heard of him until your post, although that name is pretty epic!

I agree with not wanting to derail this great thread with Daniels prophecy of the 4 section beast. I can give a simple summary of my opinion, just for comparrisons sake, although debate is not needed in this thread.

Gold Head = Babylon
Silver Torso = Persia
Bronze midsection = Greece
Iron and Clay legs and feet = Rome

those are the world ruling governments that would exist between the moment of the vision and the birth of Jesus Christ, just as the Beast of Revelation covers the revivals of the Holy Roman Empire between Jesus' death and His return. in my own opinion, and just for referance.

Great thread OP!

God Bless,

This isn't the "monomyth". That is a term coined by Joseph Campbell to denote the "hero's journey" a mythological concept which in no way has it's origins in Babylon, though it exists there within the myth of Gilgamesh. You would be correct to assert that most Freemasonic and other religious symbolism can be traced back to the Semetic myths, but that in no way means that that is the origin of mythology itself, or that myths originating in other areas of the world, among variant cultures, have no influence on modern dynamics.

As far as these myths being "true", that is just stupid. They are the same as modern myths because they represent concepts that are universal within the paradigm of "civilization". The alleged rulers of this society probably care very little about this symbolism at all, on the whole.

An important question for you to think about would be "what is the relevance of occult symbolism on the reality situation?" as I think you will find that there is none. I know that this board is more about entertainment than it is about reality or solutions to real problems, but I have also much too often seen this type of information presented as if knowing about it could in some way aid a person in effecting change within society, and this perception is absolutely false. Jordan Maxwell, David Icke, Alan Watt and others promoting this information as somehow being relevant to a revolutionary movement need to be dismissed for what they are - shills.

Having read Hislop's book, "The Two Babylons", when I was a teenager, and rereading it again last week, I agree with the basic premise of the op. However, I think it is unrealistic to assume that Nimrod and his Mother concocted their entire religious system on the fly. I think it is more likely that they borrowed and adapted some of their theology from the earlier Sumerians. This is a very interesting thread and I have learned a few things from it. Thanks for all posts both for and against the op.

Originally posted by ElohimJD

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by ElohimJD

 

this reminds me of peter goodgame's info. you familar with his work? (that you mr. goodgame? )
here's an interview i did with him that was sooo interesting. it's long, and i had laryngitis, lol, this is in .mp3 format. you can either right click and save to desktop and listen or click the link and listen to it in your browser.

ironshow.com...

that's not my website. if you're interested in it, it's ironshow.com but i haven't really
investigated it. peter goodgame's site is different. the ironshow guy has apparently archived
all of peter goodgame's radio shows. peter's site is:www.redmoonrising.com...

edit on 4-1-2012 by undo because: (no reason given)

Hehe

No I am not Mr. Goodgame and have not heard of him until your post, although that name is pretty epic!

I agree with not wanting to derail this great thread with Daniels prophecy of the 4 section beast. I can give a simple summary of my opinion, just for comparrisons sake, although debate is not needed in this thread.

Gold Head = Babylon
Silver Torso = Persia
Bronze midsection = Greece
Iron and Clay legs and feet = Rome

those are the world ruling governments that would exist between the moment of the vision and the birth of Jesus Christ, just as the Beast of Revelation covers the revivals of the Holy Roman Empire between Jesus' death and His return. in my own opinion, and just for referance.

Great thread OP!

God Bless,

ElohimJD & Others,

I have been wondering about something Re; the Neb's statue in Daniel and would like your input. The Iron torso, which represents Rome, is split off into 2 legs and then 2 feet with toes of Iron and Miry Clay.l am starting to think that the 2 legs represent when the Roman Empire split between the Ottoman Turks to the east and The Roman Catholic Church to the West.

I am convinced that the Iron and Miry Clay in the toes represents Islam and Catholocism, who have to this day a shaky, but semi-peaceful relationship. It is postulated that Islam was actually born out of the RCC as well. The 10 toes will be the 10 regions that the Earth will be divided up into ( 5 East=Muslim Control) (5 West= RCC Contol) Islam and the RCC will merge into a synergistic pagan religion.

The Beast from the Earth- Is the 12th Mahdi from Islam, that will emerge from the Well (that is in the earth) during a period of world conflict to usher in peace (According to the Wahhabi's and Shiite's) He will end up becoming the False Prophet from Revelation.

The Beast from the Sea- Is the final Catholic Pope (Holy See) who will be indwelt by Satan and become the Antichrist after he initiates a 7 year peacy threaty anmong Israel and their enemies, in the aftermath of the prophesied war coming up in Ezekiel 38.

I would appreciate any comments on this theory.

reply to post by muzzleflash


You have done some pretty extensive work here and I appreciate it. It took me 2.5 days to get through all the material here and I loved it. I had no clue as to the origin of half of this info and will be doing my own research on the subject. Thanks.

Thanks to the OP for starting this rather important thread - an attempt to discover our civilisation true roots.

And also thanks to the many whom had contributed with references not just from the bible, but other sources based upon archeological sources, which interesting, relates to the supposed 'myths' in the bible. Perhaps there is more to the supposed 'myths' than believed?

Rome was only a small nation, but through its military, tech and trade connections, with education learnt from the Greek civilisation, for all its might, it could only managed to keep territorial gain and expansion within Europe and northern Africa(Middle East).

Being students of the Greeks, many of the Roman leaders had sought to emulate Alexander the Great, who venture far further than the Romans - into the Indus Valley - a feat Rome could never claimed, not even subsequent Roman Emperors whom were satisfied with their reach and riches gained.

The Indian and Chinese Empire were left alone with almost no contact with the romans, perhaps for a minority and insignificant daring adventurers. No records were evident of their presence in those empires even though the asiatics took history seriously, and could recite lineages or events back to when Earth began by rote alone, without even the use of the written word which were copious.

Some claimed that Caesar burnt the library in Alexandria and destroyed ancient records. There were disputes that it may had been an accident caused by the macedonians while rioting against Cleopatra, and that those records were only copies of actual records that still exists in the Alexandrian warehouses, thus those copies may still exists today hidden somewhere in our world that may correlate other sources on the history of our civilisation from the Egyptian/Greek angle.

There is a historical timeline of our civilisation, but with several branches, not just one direct line progression. When it is rebuild back, one will find that indeed, all roads lead back to Sumer.....

Sumer (hundreds of thousands years ago?)
? civilisations existed before recorded history
Sumer - Africa (ancestor Lucy)
Sumer - Europe -China (Peking man) - India- Egypt - Africa
Israel - Egypt - Greece- Europe -Persia - India - Han Dynasty China - Africa
Rome - Tang China -Asoka India - Africa
Medieval Europe - Islamic Arabia - Mongol China - Dynastic India - Africa - South America
(Current) Israel - Europe - Middle East - Commie China - Fragmented Africa - N/S America.

MOD PLEASE DELETE (MISTAKE )

ElohimJD & Others,

I have been wondering about something Re; the Neb's statue in Daniel and would like your input. The Iron torso, which represents Rome, is split off into 2 legs and then 2 feet with toes of Iron and Miry Clay.l am starting to think that the 2 legs represent when the Roman Empire split between the Ottoman Turks to the east and The Roman Catholic Church to the West.

I am convinced that the Iron and Miry Clay in the toes represents Islam and Catholocism, who have to this day a shaky, but semi-peaceful relationship. It is postulated that Islam was actually born out of the RCC as well. The 10 toes will be the 10 regions that the Earth will be divided up into ( 5 East=Muslim Control) (5 West= RCC Contol) Islam and the RCC will merge into a synergistic pagan religion.

The Beast from the Earth- Is the 12th Mahdi from Islam, that will emerge from the Well (that is in the earth) during a period of world conflict to usher in peace (According to the Wahhabi's and Shiite's) He will end up becoming the False Prophet from Revelation.

The Beast from the Sea- Is the final Catholic Pope (Holy See) who will be indwelt by Satan and become the Antichrist after he initiates a 7 year peacy threaty anmong Israel and their enemies, in the aftermath of the prophesied war coming up in Ezekiel 38.

I would appreciate any comments on this theory.

Sure thing.

Your research is excellent and your conclusions soundly logical.

You are 100% correct about the Beast from the sea being the final Catholic Pope, and that it is that indivdual that will be the indwelling of Satan during the final time of this age.

The timing is off, but that is to be expected, the 7 years comes from laying several timelines in succession, not realizing the timelines often are reffering to the same time period. The total time of the great tribulation of Rev is 1335 days. It begun with the sealing of the 144,000 members of the Kingdom of God on a HIgh Holy Day (Feast of Trumpets 2008) and ends on another High Holy Day (Pentecost/Feast of the Firstfruits) 1335 days later in 2012. We are in it right now and begining next Sabbath, the final "half-a-time" begins.

Interesting fact: In no other year going back 200 years or forward 200 years does a Feast of Trumpets and a Feast of Pentecost fall exactly 1335 days apart. There can be no other year where prophecy can manifest in perfection then this year. Amazing!

The final pope is the false prophet from Revelations, however there are many false prophets at this time and the secret Imam is just one of them, and will serve his purpose to bring down Israel (Israel, US, UK, Canada, Australia), but that is all the Imam will do.

The clay mingled with iron is the attempt at mixing Catholoism with Government. they do not mix, and the loose 7th revival (of 10 nations which are the 10 toes) will not hold together for long, and they regret there union shortly after it begins as a result of the power vacuum created when the US, UK and Israel fall.

Anti-Christ is an attitude, not an individual. If your mind is "against Christ"'s work then you are anti-christ. For 2000 years Jesus' work was to build the temple of God, church of God/Body of Christ with each member a "stone" fitted perfectly together. That work ended with the sealing of the 144,000 during the Feast of Trumpets 2008. His work now is to establish the Kingdom of God on Earth. That work involves the destruction of the current civilization ruled by Satan. Any who fight to maintain this corrupt way of life, is effectivly "anti-christ" and against the curent work of God's son and our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. If you desire the Kingdom of God on Earth, you are for Jesus Christ (pro-christ).

Yes you are 100% correct that the two legs signifies the separation of Eastern and Western Catholosim (Greek Orthodox and Roman).

Again I am truely impressed at your research and your extreamly sound logical conclusions, this is a testament to your abilities as a researcher, the only reason all truth was not reached by your effot is due to God's revelation for a great purpose at this time at the end of the age.

But the time of revealing all things is on the doorstep (literally), and shortly God's servants will be able to addresss these details more fully, for now this is all that can be shared.

I hope this helps. And please forgive me if this reply is derailing the thread. I do not want this thread to be derailed, it is too important for each of you to grasp what the OP is saying.

God Bless,

Excellent job puttting your information together ive been studuying this for close to 2years and still able to gain valuable information from your studies, and images. keep up the good work. and i would like to share a video i did
"Vatican square Symbolism: christianity sex lies paganism". linking the catholic/christian symbolism back to babylonian worship of nimrod and semeramis and the spirit of saturn/satan. If you have time check out the playlist from the beginning. and sub the channel cause its far from done.

Let me add also... Mystery Babylon is America. but the key to understanding it is KNOWING who the children of israel are today. they are the so called African Americans and the people of the transatlantic slave trade. Deu 28:68

Originally posted by each1reach41
Excellent job puttting your information together ive been studuying this for close to 2years and still able to gain valuable information from your studies, and images. keep up the good work. and i would like to share a video i did
"Vatican square Symbolism: christianity sex lies paganism". linking the catholic/christian symbolism back to babylonian worship of nimrod and semeramis and the spirit of saturn/satan. If you have time check out the playlist from the beginning. and sub the channel cause its far from done.

Let me add also... Mystery Babylon is America. but the key to understanding it is KNOWING who the children of israel are today. they are the so called African Americans and the people of the transatlantic slave trade. Deu 28:68

mystery babylon is a city, not a country, not a woman. in fact, it's a religious city, that's why it refers to it as a whore, because it is religously adulterous, not sexually adulterous.

city, repeat after me, city

mystery babylon is a city, not a country, not a woman. in fact, it's a religious city, that's why it refers to it as a whore, because it is religously adulterous, not sexually adulterous.

city, repeat after me, city

You are 100% correct, the Whore of Babylon is used to express religious adultery (believing in false religion rather then what God commanded His servants to believe), and the mother of all harlots is the relgion the OP has identified and the source of all religious adultery. The Babylonian trinity of Cush, Nimrod and Semirimis.

Here is true wisdom...Babylon is fufilled across multiple spiritual concepts and you as well as the ones you are quoting are all correct in part.

Babylon accurately explains the ancient city, the governments of today, the religions of today, and all things which rebel against the commandments of God

God uses names in many ways, and always for a purpose.

Jerusalem (Way of life which leads to peace)
Babylon (Way of life that leads to choas, confusion and suffering)

It is a city (Babylon/Babel) it is also a civilization (all cultures which reject the way of life which leads to peace). There is only ONE way of life that leads to peace and that is Gods way, all other ways of life lead to confussion, pain, sufferring, chaos, selfishness and rebeliousness.

Our world is all BABYLON, all of it.

What God Almighty and Jesus Christ are about to usher in is Holy JERUSALEM.

These words are used in Revelation because they summerize a way of thinking, an attitude.

Babylon = I am right, my way is best.
Jerusalem = I am wrong, God is right, His way is best.

God Bless,

reply to post by JB1234


JB, yes...but to minimize that ROME is the #1...penultimate influencer and enforcer for over 2000 years of history ....is laughable..and that is why I'm on this thread arguing with you guys

All parables might lead to Babylon...but all ROADS lead to ROME...most definitely in my mind

its amazing that people would want to gloss over 2000 years of Roman Empire influence to look for men staring at goats and argue about who built the pyramids or if atlantis was real----when the people who brought it all together, including allowing Celts to worship ...were the Romans.

reply to post by undo


undo, to this day no one has proven proto wrong...and thus its the greatest thread on here!

love ROME

Originally posted by SuperTripps
reply to post by undo

 

undo, to this day no one has proven proto wrong...and thus its the greatest thread on here!

love ROME

that's cause if you tried to prove him wrong, his default position in his defense was some nameless mason, and his next defense was to try to get people to ignore disagreement so the issue wouldn't have to be dealt with, by force of popular vote. i know, i was there. lol

reply to post by ElohimJD


may be, but mystery babylon is a city.
it's a city that sits on 7 hills/mounts that represent
7 kings. but it is not a nation or an empire by itself.
mystery babylon is a city that rules the world.
and one more time for good measure, a city.
don't make me go into quote mode. lol