God's seventh-day Sabbath: Its not Sunday.

reply to post by Lee78


I cant agree more.....after the proof provided as to what day it originally was.....why it was changed for christians....whats the point....

If I want to read the bible I will.....this whole thread is about interpretation of scripture at this point......I like to learn from it....but this is insane.....I cant really follow all these random thoughts and directions on something that has IMO nothing to do with proving or disproving the OP......

Saturday.....cool......now sunday.....got it as to why.....anything else ?¿??

reply to post by Alchemst7


The Sanhedrin asked Jesus what the two greatest commandments in the Torah were. Jesus replied "the first greatest commandment is to love the Lord your God with all your strength, all your heart and all your mind. The second greatest commandment is to love your neighbor as you love yourself".

The first 4 commandments involve loving the Lord your God, the last 6 regard loving your fellow man. This is what you are talking about, when applied together they all equal to loving and obeying the Lord your God.

Could simply be that Christians wanted to sperate themselves from Jews, who hold the Sabbath to be the same.

Stranger things have happened.

Tebow wins games!

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by colbe

I would like to share, once more, it is not true that our Justification is a one time event (OSAS heresy) or that Salvation is a "free" gift. Both are wrong.

You make Jesus a liar when you say that, do you realize this? He said "No man can come to me unless my Father first draw that man", then says "Anyone who calls upon me I will in no wise cast out." He also said that we who believe in Him "already have eternal life". Not hopefully sometime in the future, He said we already posses it.

Did you hastily pass over my question? How many of your sins were yet future when Christ hung on the cross? Next Q: How can we pay for sins that Christ has already died for?

David is re-justified before God. This proves that we can be justified before God, then lose our justification, and then be re-justified through repentance and reconciliation with God.

How ridiculously maddening your Theology is. What do you do? Do you hope and pray that your good days cancel out your bad days? Do you keep a list of sins and good works, always making sure the good works list is longer than the list of sins??

Check out Romans 14, Paul argues that people meticulously trying to keep the law and all the ordinances are spiritually "weak"er than the Christian who realizes his freedom in Christ. That's why he says that under grace all things are lawful, but not all are expedient. When exercising our freedom in Christ we should never be an offense to another brother who is still convinced in his mind that the thing is bad. If we do that we sin. Whatever is not done out of faith is sin.

You can lose your reward based on your faithfulness, not your salvation. All your works can be burnt up, yet you yourself shall still be saved. In the Prodigal Son parable the wayward son lost his inheritance, but his sonship was never lost.

Every Christian needs a book of Systematic Theology, I don't think you have one, I really suggest you investing the money to get one. I think my last one was like 30 dollars.

John 3:16, the "easy grace" verse some use to justify they are going
to Heaven while they ignore the rest of Scripture. I shall try again.
Jesus secured our Redemption by His death on the cross, Our Lord
opened Heaven. His suffering death does not justify us. We must
persevere, follow God's way till the end and with the help of His grace
we will.

I gave you the example of David, according to you he didn't have to
repent of two of the gravest of sins because he was already justified. Another example, the difference between Peter who was devoted to Our Lord but fell down sinning, denying Jesus and Judas who betrayed Our Lord, Peter repented of his sin.

You can lose your salvation. Do not listen to heresy.

Originally posted by newyorkee
reply to post by Lee78

 

I cant agree more.....after the proof provided as to what day it originally was.....why it was changed for christians....whats the point....

If I want to read the bible I will.....this whole thread is about interpretation of scripture at this point......I like to learn from it....but this is insane.....I cant really follow all these random thoughts and directions on something that has IMO nothing to do with proving or disproving the OP......

Saturday.....cool......now sunday.....got it as to why.....anything else ?¿??

edit on 30-12-2011 by newyorkee because: (no reason given)

People will argue Scripture forever. You can twist Scripture to mean
what you want, taking it out context and if you have no authority to
interpret it, you end up preaching nothing but error.

Again, we can know what the Apostles have passed down, we are no
longer in the Old Covenant. We honor Jesus and God the Father
worshiping Them on Sunday.

It's pride here denying the practices of the first Christians. Read the
quotes of the men taught by the Apostles. I'll post a couple. Look
at the dates, figure it out dear people.

The answer to your question is Satan. He is the one who changed the day by means of another organization. He is the original and ultimate conspirator.

Rev 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

Dan_7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Who Made Sunday Holy?
“Perhaps the boldest thing, the most revolutionary change the Church ever did, happened in the first century. The holy day, the Sabbath, was changed from Saturday to Sunday. ‘The day of the Lord' was chosen, not from any direction noted in the Scriptures, but from the (Catholic) Church's sense of its own power…People who think that the Scriptures should be the sole authority, should logically become 7th Day Adventists, and keep Saturday holy.” — St. Catherine Church Sentinel, Algonac, Michigan, May 21, 1995.

“Question - Which is the Sabbath day?
“Answer - Saturday is the Sabbath day.
“Question - Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
“Answer - We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea (A.D. 364), transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday.” — Peter Geiermann, C.S.S.R., The Convert's Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, p. 50, 3rd edition, 1957.

Who Do We Reverence by Keeping Sunday Holy?
“It was the Catholic church which…has transferred this rest to Sunday in remembrance of the resurrection of our Lord. Therefore the observance of Sunday by the Protestants is an homage they pay, in spite of themselves, to the authority of the (Catholic) church.” — Monsignor Louis Segur, Plain Talk About the Protestantism of Today, p. 213.

Info came from here

For more in-depth info on the Sabbath, please go here

As far as the law being done away with, I recommend checking out these short videos with your bible in hand. They are extremely helpful.

Part 1
Part 2

There is much more that could be said on the topic, but I will leave you with this for now. Bless you all.

Originally posted by colbe

People will argue Scripture forever. You can twist Scripture to mean
what you want, taking it out context and if you have no authority to
interpret it, you end up preaching nothing but error.

Again, we can know what the Apostles have passed down, we are no
longer in the Old Covenant. We honor Jesus and God the Father
worshiping Them on Sunday.

It's pride here denying the practices of the first Christians. Read the
quotes of the men taught by the Apostles. I'll post a couple. Look
at the dates, figure it out dear people.

In the Old Testament, it is prophesied to be changed and it is written
in the Gospel and long before the Church canonized Scripture in 383 A.D.,
Christians worshiped on Sunday. The Sabbath is now the Lord's Day.

Ignatius, third Bishop of Antioch as a boy knew the beloved Apostle John.
Notice the dates...here.
_ _ _ _ _

The Fathers:

Sunday worship has always been the worship of the Church:

The Didache (C. 90-150 A.D.):

"On the Lord’s Day of the Lord gather together, break bread and give thanks, after confessing your transgressions so that your sacrifice may be pure..."

St. Ignatius of Antioch, Letter to the Magnesians (110 A.D.):

"Those who lived according to the old order of things have come to a new hope, no longer keeping the Sabbath, but the Lord’s Day, in which our life is blessed by Him and by His death."

St. Justin Martyr, First Apology, C. 67 (C. 155 A.D.):

"We all gather on the day of the sun, for it is the first day (after the Jewish sabbath, but also the first day) when God, separating matter from darkness, made the world; and on this same day Jesus Christ our Savior rose from the dead."

Originally posted by bottlenoze
The answer to your question is Satan. He is the one who changed the day by means of another organization. He is the original and ultimate conspirator.

Rev 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

Dan_7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Who Made Sunday Holy?
“Perhaps the boldest thing, the most revolutionary change the Church ever did, happened in the first century. The holy day, the Sabbath, was changed from Saturday to Sunday. ‘The day of the Lord' was chosen, not from any direction noted in the Scriptures, but from the (Catholic) Church's sense of its own power…People who think that the Scriptures should be the sole authority, should logically become 7th Day Adventists, and keep Saturday holy.” — St. Catherine Church Sentinel, Algonac, Michigan, May 21, 1995.

“Question - Which is the Sabbath day?
“Answer - Saturday is the Sabbath day.
“Question - Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
“Answer - We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea (A.D. 364), transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday.” — Peter Geiermann, C.S.S.R., The Convert's Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, p. 50, 3rd edition, 1957.

Who Do We Reverence by Keeping Sunday Holy?
“It was the Catholic church which…has transferred this rest to Sunday in remembrance of the resurrection of our Lord. Therefore the observance of Sunday by the Protestants is an homage they pay, in spite of themselves, to the authority of the (Catholic) church.” — Monsignor Louis Segur, Plain Talk About the Protestantism of Today, p. 213.

Info came from here

For more in-depth info on the Sabbath, please go here

As far as the law being done away with, I recommend checking out these short videos with your bible in hand. They are extremely helpful.

Part 1
Part 2

There is much more that could be said on the topic, but I will leave you with this for now. Bless you all.

Yes, the Bible is a Catholic book, the first Christians were Roman Catholic. You can't continue to protest. I just posted the quotes of
the first Christians, one who knew John. The Sabbath is now the
Lord's Day to honor Jesus and the day He arose from the dead,
Sunday.

Take a look at those dates, all before the Church assembled the Canon. There's your proof.
We can know.

The Fathers:

Sunday worship has always been the worship of the Church:

The Didache (C. 90-150 A.D.):

"On the Lord’s Day of the Lord gather together, break bread and give thanks, after confessing your transgressions so that your sacrifice may be pure..."

Pope Damasus decided which writings were divine, the Canon in 383 A.D. You see, long before the Bible, the first Christians worshiped God on Sunday.

They knew what day it was Jesus arose. Give them break.


blessings,

colbe

reply to post by colbe

You can lose your salvation. Do not listen to heresy.

You may be able to lose yours, I cannot lose mine because I know in whom mine rests. It's in Him and His sacrifice. You cannot justify yourself, you cannot add to the completed work of Christ. To think you can is the true "heresy" at work in this conversation. Christ gave us 2 commands to follow. Love God with all we have, and love our neighbor as ourselves. Love is the fulfillment of the law.

reply to post by halfoldman


Sounds interesting halfold, I'll try to track it down...
Thanks.

I love these threads that go on with only 2 flags. I think it means some brains are really working, (not just trying to collect stars either.)

Nowhere in the Bible, is the Sabbath Day changed from the 7th Day to Sunday.

Before sin ever entered our world, God created this sanctuary in time (the seventh day), to fellowship with Him.

Genesis 2 -
And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
And God blessed the seventh day (made it Holy), and sanctified it (set it apart): because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Shabbat Shalom

reply to post by ovumcranium


Its not about flags and stars for me its about discovering, might be a good idea for ATS mods to implement an extra symbol where threads are in serious discussion where no stone will be left un-turned inviting serious discussion? Also a symbol for case closed etc? maybe an idea

Luke 15:24,32 - the prodigal son was dead, and now is alive again; he was lost and now is found. The prodigal son regained his father’s favor through repentance (v. 18-19,21). When we ask our Father for forgiveness, we too will regain His favor and be justified.


Luke 15:24, 32 [24] Because this my son was dead, and is come to life again: was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry. [25] Now his elder son was in the field, and when he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard music and dancing:

[26] And he called one of the servants, and asked what these things meant. [27] And he said to him: Thy brother is come, and thy father hath killed the fatted calf, because he hath received him safe. [28] And he was angry, and would not go in. His father therefore coming out began to entreat him. [29] And he answering, said to his father: Behold, for so many years do I serve thee, and I have never transgressed thy commandment, and yet thou hast never given me a kid to make merry with my friends: [30] But as soon as this thy son is come, who hath devoured his substance with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf.

[31] But he said to him: Son, thou art always with me, and all I have is thine. [32] But it was fit that we should make merry and be glad, for this thy brother was dead and is come to life again; he was lost, and is found.

Jesus came to make things new, we're not in the Old Covenant.

+ + +

St Paul answers this claim the best in that he says: (Colossians 2:16-17) "From now onwards, NEVER LET ANYONE ELSE DECIDE what should eat or drink, OR WHETHER YOU ARE TO OBSERVE ANNUAL FESTIVALS, NEW MOONS OR SABBATHS, THESE WERE ONLY PALE REFLECTIONS OF WHAT WAS COMING:THE Reality is CHRIST" In other words, Paul is saying let no one call the Christians to task for what they ate or drank or IN REGARD TO FESTIVALS: NEW MOONS (the thing of the pagans) and SABBATHS (Jews). Note also that the festival, new moon (2 kings 4:23) , and Sabbaths are references to the yearly, monthly, and weekly observances of the Mosaic calendar. Therefore the whole Jewish festal calendar is no longer binding and this includes the Sabbath's of the Old Law. Thus St. Paul rebukes the idea of reverting back to Jewish customs and observance of feast days of the Mosaic calendar as if they were still binding (Galatians 4:9-11). Today those who object to Sunday worship also place themselves under St. Paul's harsh words of condemnation

In regard to this verse...

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Please notice that the 10 commandments were written by the finger of God on tables of stone

Exo 31:18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.
Exo 25:16 And thou shalt put into the ark the testimony which I shall give thee.
Exo 25:21 And thou shalt put the mercy seat above upon the ark; and in the ark thou shalt put the testimony that I shall give thee.
Exo 25:22 And there I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubims which are upon the ark of the testimony, of all things which I will give thee in commandment unto the children of Israel.

So the 10 commandments were placed inside of the ark of the covenant. There were a second set of laws written by Moses (as dictated by God) into a book and they were placed on the side of the ark, not inside as were the 10 commandments. Please notice this below.

Deu 31:24 And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished,
Deu 31:25 That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying,
Deu 31:26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.

It was the book written by the hand of Moses that contained all of the "handwriting of ordinances" that pointed to Christ. The book of Moses is that which was "contrary to us".

2Ch 35:6 So kill the passover, and sanctify yourselves, and prepare your brethren, that they may do according to the word of the LORD by the hand of Moses.
2Ch 35:11 And they killed the passover, and the priests sprinkled the blood from their hands, and the Levites flayed them.
2Ch 35:12 And they removed the burnt offerings, that they might give according to the divisions of the families of the people, to offer unto the LORD, as it is written in the book of Moses. And so did they with the oxen.
2Ch 35:13 And they roasted the passover with fire according to the ordinance: but the other holy offerings sod they in pots, and in caldrons, and in pans, and divided them speedily among all the people.

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Lev 23:37 These are the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, to offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD, a burnt offering, and a meat offering, a sacrifice, and drink offerings, every thing upon his day:

It was the ceremonial system, feast days and ceremonial sabbaths were done away with. These were the ceremonial sabbaths that included meat and drink offerings.

Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
Heb 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

The 10 commandments are God's eternal moral law. God does not change....
Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
Psa 119:142 Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.
Psa 119:172 My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness.
Psa 97:2 Clouds and darkness are round about him: righteousness and judgment are the habitation of his throne.
Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

The tabernacle and ark of the covenant were patterned after the tabernacle and in heaven.

Exo 25:8 And let them make me a sanctuary; that I may dwell among them.
Exo 25:9 According to all that I shew thee, after the pattern of the tabernacle, and the pattern of all the instruments thereof, even so shall ye make it

Mat 22:35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
Mat 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Those that asked him this question were the Pharisees and not the disciples. Notice they were tempting him. The first four commandments have to do with loving God and the other six are about loving your neighbor. That is why he said "On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."

More verses in support of the Sabbath.

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

Jas 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

2Co 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

The "ink" being spoken of here is the handwriting of Moses. You see, it's supposed to be written in our heart. It's an act of obedience and worship and not of works as it cannot save us. Rather it should be kept, not just the sabbath, but all 10 commandments because we love God.

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

christianity is the new sorcery, sanctioned by the state, whatever you "believe" determines reality therefore a slut can be a virgin and the dead can come back to life.

Justification is not a one time event. You can fall (sin) and never repent.

OSAS is not true.

1 Cor 10:12
Wherefore he that thinketh himself to stand, let him take heed lest he fall.

Originally posted by colbe

Justification is not a one time event. You can fall (sin) and never repent.

OSAS is not true.

1 Cor 10:12
Wherefore he that thinketh himself to stand, let him take heed lest he fall.

You are correct. Some other scriptures that show that OSAS is not accurate are:

Matt. 24:13, RS: “He who endures to the end will be saved.”

(Revised Standard)
So a person’s final salvation is not determined at the moment that he begins to put faith in Jesus.

Phil. 2:12, RS: “As you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.”

(Revised Standard)
This was addressed to “the saints,” or holy ones, at Philippi, as stated in Philippians 1:1. Paul urged them not to be overly confident but to realize that their final salvation was not yet assured.

Heb. 10:26, 27, RS: “If we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful prospect of judgment, and a fury of fire which will consume the adversaries.”

(Revised Standard)
Thus the Bible does not go along with the idea that no matter what sins a person may commit after he is “saved” he will not lose his salvation. It encourages faithfulness.

Hebrews 6:4-6, " For it is impossible as regards those who have once for all been enlightened, and who have tasted the heavenly free gift, and who have become partakers of holy spirit, 5 and who have tasted the fine word of God and powers of the coming system of things, 6 but who have fallen away, to revive them again to repentance, because they impale the Son of God afresh for themselves and expose him to public shame. "

Here is shows that even a person anointed with holy spirit can lose his hope of salvation.