Jesus is NOT a copy from Pagan religions! Those are lies! Do research and do not believe!

reply to post by Rothbard

I just picked up on the point that you referred to the father from the OT and not to Jesus or the person of Jesus, and so I wanted to point back to him. I obviously know him, and yes, even the family of Jesus had baggage, and he was human who in self discovery became divine and had a sent calling, whereby he assumed the full weight of all of OUR baggage. It's a heroic feat of immense courage, and needn't be discarded or bypassed, even if aspects of it might make us uncomfortable. What did Jesus say - pick up your cross and follow me. We all have something we're working out, and overcoming, but because of him, our own triumph is also assured, and that's powerful, and a curative solution which treats the illness at core. There is nothing easy about it. It's simple, but not easy. It can't be easy. There's a lot of joy on the other side of all the sorrow, and since we cannot avoid it, it cannot "get in the way". It's part of the great work of all ages, something that Jesus makes possible for us in the fullness of time and history. A blind faith just doesn't cut it any more. We too have to wrestle with the beast of the world and somehow cast it into the abyss and oblivion in the same way that Jesus did. We too must summon the courage to overcome and triumph in the face of it all, the whole, inglorious, decrepid mess, and find perfect love on the other side of hatred and wickedness, and the simplicity on the far side of complexity. To follow him is to do this work, and transmute the evil in the face of our great love which transcends it. There's no running away from the truth, good and bad. When you really think about it, it (the truth, good and bad) shouldn't turn us away from Jesus and his love for us, but towards him, unless there is work on our part (the work of forgiveness) which we are refusing to do.

So it's also challenging, what Jesus puts to us, as the cost of our descipleship, but in the final analysis, it's the only thing that is either reasonable, or worthwhile!

That's the thing, there is no avoiding the truth, and the greater (and infinitely better) truth which it masks. "There is nothing now hidden which will not be made known and brought to light." Jesus understood all these things perfectly. Without his lead and model, I wouldn't know a damn thing about any of this stuff, it's all him, because of him. There is nothing he will not tell us or share, and his love knows no bounds and endures forever. It's ... indescribably wonderful, once you get through to the joy on the other side of all the sorrow and suffering and the baggage, which vanishes in an absurdity and in the twinkling of an eye, as the tears are wiped away at the end of the day! All is well that ends well. He knew everything, and through him so can we.

Best Regards,

NAM

The whole Bible is filled with baggage and heartache AND a redemption and a river of life which flows through it, along with the non-dual tree of life depicted at it's end, two of them, within a newfound heavenly household right here on earth (brotherhood of man).

"He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son."

"I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people."

"And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God."

Our hope and joy is in the promise on the other side of the baggage, but there can be no denying it, whether in the life of Jesus, the prophets of old, to our own lives and the world in which we find ourselves today. Our hope is in the triumph over it all, and that seems to be the point of the whole Bible, who's aim is a reunification with God in spirit and in truth, even in spite of it all.

"His master replied, 'Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master's happiness!'

Obviously there's a lot of work to do then, so let's get to it, and stop arguing over it. It's time for courage, overcoming and triumph in the name and spirit and person of Jesus Christ, who swallowed it all up in a triumph which can never be undone, and which not even the man-made gate of hell can prevail against.

If not now, then when and if not us, then who? That's the question.

The Birth of Jesus


This isn't about me, so don't assume I'm a narccissist by continually posting, but there's something in that post, something very important, and historically significant - please share it. Thanks.

It speaks for itself, and you'll note in the video, that the producer of "Jesus of Nazareth" also knew and understood perfectly. And that actor Powell who played Jesus in the film, amazing, blue eyes too! He never played another part in his life. Seems he was born to play Jesus in that film.

reply to post by boymonkey74


Honestly what did you expect him to quote? An atheist's video, to simply rule out the video do to the persons faith is a logical fallacy. Yes I agree the video may be flawed, I haven't watched them either. Regardless you take yourself out this argument by way of your own logical fallacy, making your argument invalid not his.

reply to post by arpgme


I completely agree with you, Christmas is a pagan holiday turned christian. It was used as a way to convert pagan's toward the christian faith. Most scholars believe Jesus was born in the late spring-summer, due to the talks of Sheppards and sheep. Some people seriously do believe that Jesus was born on Christmas...the 25th of December. It's sad it really is, I appreciate threads like this. Defend Jesus' name from all the detractors, hopefully they all see the light that is Jesus Christ.

Originally posted by FugitiveSoul
reply to post by colbe

 

Maybe I was confused by the context of your grammer, but didn't you claim Bishop John S. Spong was an atheist. If so, then that's what I was referring to. If that isn't what you meant then I'll amend my answer to oblige you.
I am not an atheist, nor do I "gamble" my soul on the knowledge (or lack thereof) of others, religious or otherwise. I do believe in a higher power, but it would take me ten lifetimes to explain to you what that means, though I can say that this higher power has no need of worship, nor does it require such human fare. There is no difference between god and the devil, neither is there a difference between god and man. Once you can see beyond the limitations of the idea of "God" you'll begin to understand that our mortal perception of reality is primitive, and it is this archaic belief system that keeps humanity stagnant.

Hi, thanks for your reply. Revelation, I think it was, put up a video saying a priest
said there is no Hell. I pointed out the priest was not a Roman Catholic priest
but Anglican or Episcopalian priest. The priest -hah!- was speaking nonsense.

Ephesians 4:5 for Bible Alone believers says there is one Lord, one faith, one
Baptism. Sounds pretty simple, it shows God has one plan. The fascinating
thing about God is He is perfectly simple yet infinitely complex.

The world is in serious times, a help, don't ignore it. Prophecy. Prophecy makes explicit what God has already revealed. I just posted a message to an American Seer. Why not put it up here to help. Get right with God, it's called getting in the "state of grace." Everyone is responsible for their own soul. Believe, Jesus is coming soon, spiritually, to save souls. All the world will
realize.

Here's that message, I just posted on another thread about the New Madrid.


Pray for mitigation and very important...

Jesus states it twice, reconciliation means Confession.
If you are Catholic go to Confession now. If you are
non-Catholic, repent with true contrition and confess your
serious (mortal) sins to God...now.

+ + +

Message to Jennifer

11/30/11
5:46 PM
My Child, the mountains will awaken, the hills will roll forth with great might as the earth opens up in the middle of America and you will no longer see a Grand Canyon rather a greater one. You will see a war begin as the north will ignite manmade missiles against the south as the two Korea's cannot make peace with one another. I tell you My children you seek to find stability within the markets yet I tell you your peace is not in the ways of the world, for until humanity converts to My mercy greater turmoil will come.

You will hear thunderous cries of your brothers and sisters as the battle between heaven and the beast intensifies. Put on your armor My children and clothe yourself with the protection I have given you through the Eucharist, through fasting and prayer and most of all reconciliation.

You would not choose to attend a great feast wearing clothes that are soiled and smell as they are rotten for the gatekeeper would turn you away. Just as I tell you that heaven is awaiting you but you as caretaker must take care of the things that stain your soul so that they are removed so you are prepared for the time of My visitation for I am Jesus. Come My children and reconcile yourself before your King, now go forth in haste for I am Jesus and My mercy and justice will prevail.


www.wordsfromjesus.com...

reply to post by NewAgeMan


Don't talk rubbish. Robert Powell has had a very successful career following that role. Look for yourself www.imdb.com...

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
The Birth of Jesus

 

This isn't about me, so don't assume I'm a narccissist by continually posting, but there's something in that post, something very important, and historically significant - please share it. Thanks.

It speaks for itself, and you'll note in the video, that the producer of "Jesus of Nazareth" also knew and understood perfectly. And that actor Powell who played Jesus in the film, amazing, blue eyes too! He never played another part in his life. Seems he was born to play Jesus in that film.

edit on 6-12-2011 by NewAgeMan because: (no reason given)

Robert Powell has alot of success outside of that role. And there are no paintings done at that time of Christ that depict Christ so no body knows what he looked like. The oldest one that MIGHT be Jesus is in this linkwww.dailymail.co.uk... but there's no detail as to skin hair or eye colour.

Originally posted by arpgme

Justin Martyr even admitted that the Pagans were COPYING stories of Christianity and they were NOT there before...

I never heard of this dude so I just now looked him up. He was Christian. Duh, he's gonna say that. Big surprise --not.

Pagans could not possibly have copied Christianity. Christianity is only 2000 years old which has been mentioned here before but deserves repeating.

I've observed the back and forth on this topic. If you believe in Jesus thats great. Its one thing to believe in Jesus and its an entirely different thing to follow any given faith and all its particular doctrine. But I ask. What do you do with it? What I see always coming out of Christianity is an emphasis on sin. Who has sin, who is committing sin, who is going to hell because of sin. If you didn't have a Bible at all... could you find Jesus?

And while I respect that Jesus died on the cross for everyones sin, I also respect that ordinary humans die day in and day out for us all and not made individual gods. Whether you believe we should be in wars or not, those that are fighting do so because *they* believe they are helping others and protecting us. They go in so that others don't have to. Policemen and firemen go into dangerous situations day in and day out to protect and save others. Why has this one story of a man on a cross been elevated so highly? Because he attached the word eternal to it? It a story as old as time.

Man is not evil. Man and woman will protect what they love. Jesus was one of many. Not the first to lay down his life for others. Not the last but he got the most publicity. Others prefer to do so quietly.

Lastly, I always find it curious that in the time since Jesus has died the only appearances ever made back to this earth have been by a woman. Mary also known as Guadalupe. I have more reason to believe in a Goddess than a God any day.

Originally posted by LunaKat

Originally posted by arpgme

Justin Martyr even admitted that the Pagans were COPYING stories of Christianity and they were NOT there before...

I never heard of this dude so I just now looked him up. He was Christian. Duh, he's gonna say that. Big surprise --not.

Pagans could not possibly have copied Christianity. Christianity is only 2000 years old which has been mentioned here before but deserves repeating.

I've observed the back and forth on this topic. If you believe in Jesus thats great. Its one thing to believe in Jesus and its an entirely different thing to follow any given faith and all its particular doctrine. But I ask. What do you do with it? What I see always coming out of Christianity is an emphasis on sin. Who has sin, who is committing sin, who is going to hell because of sin. If you didn't have a Bible at all... could you find Jesus?

And while I respect that Jesus died on the cross for everyones sin, I also respect that ordinary humans die day in and day out for us all and not made individual gods. Whether you believe we should be in wars or not, those that are fighting do so because *they* believe they are helping others and protecting us. They go in so that others don't have to. Policemen and firemen go into dangerous situations day in and day out to protect and save others. Why has this one story of a man on a cross been elevated so highly? Because he attached the word eternal to it? It a story as old as time.

Man is not evil. Man and woman will protect what they love. Jesus was one of many. Not the first to lay down his life for others. Not the last but he got the most publicity. Others prefer to do so quietly.

Lastly, I always find it curious that in the time since Jesus has died the only appearances ever made back to this earth have been by a woman. Mary also known as Guadalupe. I have more reason to believe in a Goddess than a God any day.

edit on 6-12-2011 by LunaKat because: (no reason given)

edit on 6-12-2011 by LunaKat because: (no reason given)

edit on 6-12-2011 by LunaKat because: (no reason given)

He's a Christian saint. St Justine. Nothing else to be said but Bunk.

steve

No you're confusing the issue.

No. The opinion can be found here,

msl1.mit.edu...

Your authors did not plead in court the truth of what they wrote,

11. The book was first published in 1982 and was a tremendous success. The Claimants described their book as being one of “historical conjecture”. By this I understand them to be saying that they have researched the matter and as a result of that research are able to make hypotheses about various particular points and suggest that they might be plausible without actually committing themselves to whether or not they believe them to be correct...

So, unsurprisingly, neither does the judge find whether or not what they wrote is true,

103. As is usual with books that attract a lot of publicity they have attracted the wrath of the literary experts of the world. Fortunately it is not part of my judgment to assess the literary worth of the books or even the truth behind them....

Contrary to your hopeful reading of the article you cited, the judge made no finding that would help you in your dispute with the other member.

reply to post by arpgme


Jesus would have to have actually existed for this to be true to begin with. Since he is a completely made up story and there is far more proof that he never existed than your fake book as the only source that claims his existance, you have no point. So don believe your own lies!!!!

Originally posted by eight bits
steve

No you're confusing the issue.

No. The opinion can be found here,

msl1.mit.edu...

Your authors did not plead in court the truth of what they wrote,

11. The book was first published in 1982 and was a tremendous success. The Claimants described their book as being one of “historical conjecture”. By this I understand them to be saying that they have researched the matter and as a result of that research are able to make hypotheses about various particular points and suggest that they might be plausible without actually committing themselves to whether or not they believe them to be correct...

So, unsurprisingly, neither does the judge find whether or not what they wrote is true,

103. As is usual with books that attract a lot of publicity they have attracted the wrath of the literary experts of the world. Fortunately it is not part of my judgment to assess the literary worth of the books or even the truth behind them....

Contrary to your hopeful reading of the article you cited, the judge made no finding that would help you in your dispute with the other member.

Again you're confusing the issues and you're either completely stupid or you're doing it on purpose. I NEVER SAID THAT THE AUTHORS WERE ARGUING THE TRUTH OF THEIR BOOK IN COURT AND YOU KNOW IT. I said that when the authors of HBHG took Dan Brown to court for copywrite infringement the court ruled that what they had in their book was historical fact and therefore not subject to copywrite. A 5 year old would have understood this on the first post.

HISTORICAL FACT AND NOT SUBJECT TO COPYWRITE.

Now that you've been identified as a religious energy vampire changing the meaning of a post to confuse issues and therefore fooling yourself into thinking that you're one of "GOD SOLDIERS" I will no longer waste my energy on you.

reply to post by colbe


Before we take this discussion any further I have a question, but before I ask it, I'm going to direct you to a previous post I made in this thread:

That wasn't the only word they got wrong. They also got the word "Stauros" wrong, believing it meant cross, when it actually meant pole or stake. There are loads of mistranslations in the bible, which is why the debate has become so heated, because many believe this somehow voids their religion, when in fact it only strengthens it.
If you uphold something that is wrong as gospel, it makes you seem crazy, but if you can amend your religion, take into account that some of it was handed down by older religions, and that at the end of the day it's all just a story of morality, then you seem legitimately spiritual and open minded enough to understand what it is you're reading.

Here are some other misunderstood words from the bible.

- Apostle - (apostolos)
Literal meaning: ambassador, emissary, envoy, diplomat
Word breakdown: from “apo” (away) + “stello” (dispatch, send) = one who is sent away or dispatched
This word commonly referred to foreign ambassadors.

- Church - (eklesia, pronounced “Eh-kleh-SEE-ah)
Literal meaning: assembly
Word breakdown: from “ek” (out of/out from) + kaleo (to call/summon) = one who is called or summoned out to a public assembly.
Originally, this was a political term referring to the public assembly of all eligible voters (that is, all adult, male citizens who had completed military training) in the Athenian democratic system. In such an assembly, each person could have their say, and all of their votes counted. Each person contributed directly towards important national decisions and legislation.

- Devil - (diabolos, pronounced dee-AH-bo-los)
Literal meaning: accuser, prosecutor, slanderer, false accuser
Word breakdown: from “diabalo” (to backbite/slander, accuse, or give hostile information)

- Desciple - (mathetes, pronounced mah-theh-TES)
Literal meaning: student, pupil.
Word breakdown: from “math-” (aorist root of a verb meaning “to learn/perceive/comprehend”) + suffix “-tes” (“one who”) = one who learns.

- Eternal - (aionios, pronounced ai-OE-nee-os)
Literal meaning: pertaining to an age/eon, lasting for an age. Not forever like many would believe.
Word breakdown: an adjective formed from the noun “aion” (an age/era/period/span/epoch/eon)

- Fornication - (porneia, pronounced por-NAY-ah)
Literal meaning: prostitution.
Word breakdown: from “porne” (prostitute)

- Hell - (geena, pronounced GEH-eh-nah)
(hades, pronounced HAH-des)
(tartaros, pronounced TAR-tar-os) (sheol)
In the Old Testament in the King James version (which has massively impacted English speakers for centuries), the Hebrew word (sheol), is translated “hell” many, many times. However, sheol meant merely “the grave”. It did not in any way imply an afterlife or punishment or suffering. So when someone says that Christ died and went to Hell before ascension, it just means he was buried.

- Preach - (kerusso, pronounced keh-ROO-soe)
Literal meaning: to announce, to make a public broadcast, to proclaim, to be a town-crier, to be a herald.

- Repent - (metanoeo, pronounced meh-tah-no-EH-oe)
Literal meaning: to have an after-thought, to change one’s mind.
Word breakdown: from “meta” (after) + “noeo” (to think/consider) = to have the benefit of afterthought, to rethink, to think twice, to reconsider, to change one’s mind.

- Sin - (hamartia, pronounced hah-mar-TEE-ah)
Literal meaning: missing of a target, error, mistake, failure.
The word originally referred to occasions when one missed a target that one was aiming at. In English, “sin” is almost inconceivable outside of a religious context. In Greek, it meant any kind of mistake, error, failure, or shortcoming.

- Scipture - (graphe, pronounced grah-PHEH)
Literal meaning: a writing, something written
Word breakdown: from “grapho” (to write)

Just these words alone paint a very different picture of the bible as a canon of lessons. They alone change the very context of a lot of the writings, but do they take anything away from the moral teachings of Christ or God? No. However, knowing these words and the etymology of them does give the holy scriptures a new weight, doesn't it?

My question:
Can we both agree with these etymological definitions? If we can, then we can proceed with this conversation. If not, then we should both agree to disagree, and both bow out respectfully.

steve

I said that when the authors of HBHG took Dan Brown to court for copywrite infringement the court ruled that what they had in their book was historical fact and therefore not subject to copywrite.

For the third time, the judge made no such ruling. Last time, I showed you where the judge said that he declined to rule on that question, and I gave you a link to the text of the entire opinion.

So, steve, you've been called out. Back up your claim.

Instead of wasting the community's bandwidth telling us what you think about me, please quote from the opinion where the judge ruled that "what they had in their book was historical fact."

Simple, no?

But you won't be able do it, because it's not there. The judge didn't rule on that question. He didn't rule on it because the matter was not before the court. It had no relevance to the case.

BTW, in the UK, it is possible to infringe the copyright on a work of historical fact. That's explained in the opinion, too.

Jesus is a copy.

There is no single legitimate historical source during his life that confirms he ever existed except Josephus which is a blatant forgery ( proven )

On the other hand there is entire library ( at least 12 different authors ) of scrupulous historian which never mentioned Jesus , a person that supposedly was teaching to the crowds and making miracles.

And those book are what survived catholic books burning , just imagine how many proofs that Jesus is false was actually burned.

Originally posted by eight bits
steve

I said that when the authors of HBHG took Dan Brown to court for copywrite infringement the court ruled that what they had in their book was historical fact and therefore not subject to copywrite.

For the third time, the judge made no such ruling. Last time, I showed you where the judge said that he declined to rule on that question, and I gave you a link to the text of the entire opinion.

So, steve, you've been called out. Back up your claim.

Instead of wasting the community's bandwidth telling us what you think about me, please quote from the opinion where the judge ruled that "what they had in their book was historical fact."

Simple, no?

But you won't be able do it, because it's not there. The judge didn't rule on that question. He didn't rule on it because the matter was not before the court. It had no relevance to the case.

BTW, in the UK, it is possible to infringe the copyright on a work of historical fact. That's explained in the opinion, too.

Key legal issues

"The court did not set out any novel legal ideas. Instead, much of the decision was based on the application of established legal principles to the facts at hand."

Got a question for you folks out there. Maybe really not on this particular subject but close . Here is the question. If Jesus was put in a sealed tomb for three days and three nights, why is it that most Christians celebrate Easter as from good Friday night to Sunday morning? If Jesus was killed on Friday afternoon and put in the tomb before sunset then he spent Saturday night and Saturday day as one day and one night. Then he spent some of Sunday night in the tomb but not certain how much because Sunday morning was found to be gone. Now I can only account for one day and possibly two nights at the very most.

Does anyone out there have any ideas on this or is the biblical account wrong? I have an idea but will wait for some answers before spouting my take on this.

Many years ago (many, many years ago), I was a Christian. Then I came across a passage in I Timothy that said "Hold fast to what you know to be true." My closest friend at the time was a Rastafarian who gave me the following challenge "Have you ever read the bible to see what it really says instead of what people tell you it says?" In all honesty I had to admit that I never had, so I did because I did not know what was true. As I did I was struck by the incredible inconsistency between what my church claimed the bible said and what it actually said, as well as the inconsistencies between parts of the bible. When I approached the spiritual leaders of my church with questions, they had no answers except to say that everything other than what I heard from them was a lie and trick of the devil. I could summarize all of their answers with "Shut up, stop questioning and do what you are told."

I expanded my investigations to the writings of the early church fathers and other early christian documents like the Gnostic gospels. I discovered through those extensive materials on Mithras and other messianic cults.

Many decades of investigation has led me to the following personal conclusions. Christianity as practiced today is a recycling of other religious traditions and myths designed to keep the masses under the social control of the church. "Being Saved" is nothing more than a form of social control.. do what your church says or god loves you so much that he will torture you in hell for all eternity.. However there is also a school of spiritual enlightenment within Christianity that it is actively suppressed by the church proper since it contains the seeds of knowledge that allow people to truly find god without the need of submitting to the church itself. It's there if you look (An interesting book on the topic is Robin Amis book "A Different Christianity")

As Jesus is reported to have said in the Gospel of Thomas "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all. [And after they have reigned they will rest.]"

I am at peace with my god, at peace with myself and the universe. And as a result of Paul's admonition to Timothy, I hold fast to what I KNOW to the be true, but as a result, I am no longer a Christian.

steveknows

Here's that link to the judge's opinion again,

msl1.mit.edu...

The court accepted the complainant authors' characterization of their book as "historical conjecture." Historical conjecture is neither fiction, nor is it history. The judge explains what he understands the term to mean, in paragraph 11 of the opinion, from which I have already quoted in an earlier post.

Any literary expression whatsoever, whether historical, fictional, or "historical conjecture" can enjoy copyright (not "copywrite," lol) protection in the UK. That's explained in the opinion, too.

The court did not offer an opinion on whether the book's ideas are true, which wasn't an issue in the case. The complainants didn't sue Brown for copying their ideas, but rather for allegedly copying what they called the "Central Theme" of their book, an organization of those ideas, something at least potentially protected. They didn't persuade the judge that Brown had taken their "Central Theme," and so they lost. Again, this is all explained in the opinion.

Competent rebuttal is for you to quote one or more paragraphs from the judge's ruling that say otherwise than above. Ad hom remarks and tough-guy poses don't cut it.

Everyone else who even cares about this has already downloaded the opinion, and verified that my quotes from it are accurate and representative of what the judge wrote. I don't know who you think you're fooling, but I am pretty sure that RG can't believe his good luck.