Jesus is NOT a copy from Pagan religions! Those are lies! Do research and do not believe!

reply to post by NewAgeMan


NewAgeMan, if I could give you a thousand stars for this post, I would! Ok well I can still give you virtual stars anyway. The best star is the one above each and every one of us. It is truly sad how distorted some thngs have become, separating the soul from the Divine.

Originally posted by FugitiveSoul
reply to post by colbe

 

How does being an Episcopalian makehim an Atheist exactly?
And I'm not gambling my eternal life on anyone. Not like I would go to hell anyway, at least not in the sense of the word in which you think it means, and my soul is beyond eternal. "Eternal" would foster that there is a limit to my existence.

reply to post by mantisfortress

 

Also, let the bible speak for itself. Please do not mistake man-made church doctrine into it's message.

The entire bible itself is a canon of manmade doctrine.

Many in this thread have claimed that the divinity of Christ as invented after his death. This is so absolutely ridiculous! Obvoiusly, they have done no research on the topic.

Please provide a link to any writings discussing Christ while he was alive please, emphasis on discussing his "divinity."

Most importantly, to those of you who seem to detest Christ or think that the idea of Christianity is farsical...Jesus loves you too, and so do I.

I don't think anyone "detests" Jesus. The concensus is he was a great teacher, but that's it.

edit on 5-12-2011 by FugitiveSoul because: (no reason given)

Hi, are you speaking of Revelation? Who is "him?" I may have started with
speaking to Revelation but with other points, talking to everyone replying here
especially about the end times.

The word eternal and infinite get interchanged a lot. Fact, God has no beginning
and no end. Humanity has a beginning and his/her soul, no end.

Originally posted by Dystopiaphiliac

Originally posted by colbe
70,000 Christian, non-Christian and a few atheists saw the "miracle of the sun" at Fatima in
1917.

Roughly 70,000 human beings die from hunger each and every day. A miracle would be for an end to violence from these many religious sects across the world so that we can focus on peace, love and care.

Dy,

Everyone dies, what does that have to do with the "miracle of the sun?" Man
has a fallen nature, you can't have peace without the help of God's grace.

Pray to God for the grace to believe He exists. You won't be happy until you
come close to, find God...pray. God gave you a "soul" that part of you yearns
for Him.

love,

colbe

reply to post by NewAgeMan

I, too must say that I am awestruck by this post of yours......



reply to post by eight bits


Thank you a thousand times for putting your 'thanks' where I could see it and find NAM's post!!

Here's a simple question that I bet no one can answer. Who made God?

That is the question that you are taught not to even ask.

Who made who? Did God make man or is it the other way around?

I am not atheist but I certainly do not believe in the God described in your Bibles. Religion is and has been used as a tool to control the masses. Catholicism perfected this. The only religion I respect is Buddhism, they did not have a convert or die mentality. I do not think there has ever been a war fought for Buddhism.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

NewAgeMan, if I could give you a thousand stars for this post, I would! Ok well I can still give you virtual stars anyway. The best star is the one above each and every one of us. It is truly sad how distorted some thngs have become, separating the soul from the Divine.

Thank you, I see it was recognized by some. I'm still reeling from the implications of my discovery, it's awesome. Right after making that post, strange signs and synchronicities immediately started up for me, validating the importance of the sharing and mutual "grokking" of that information.

This isn't the dark ages any more, but Jesus, his teachings, his character, his awareness, wisdom and love is still relevant to this day, the prescious gift extended, the very same one, although it's been approached here from a wholely rational POV, instead of via the blind faith of a fanatical, religious, conservative literalist fundamentalism. Paradoxically we both arrive at the same place, but it's no good unless it's understood and accepted because of the value of what's contained, only then can we respond with the appropriate love in kind, and gratitude, for this utterly courageous and divine, sweet heart of the Lord who indeed was Lord and Master, and who knew it, and who with awareness and intentionality, fulfilled the prophecies of Elijah and Isaiah.

It's a new lens by which to see, recognize and understand the person of Yeshua ben Joseph, and Joseph is also a real hero in this story I think, the unsung hero, for holding together enough of a family framework for Jesus to find his true father in God the Absolute. Yahweh may be seen as an agent by this frame, not God of the highest, but Jesus he undersstood this, as well as the deeper significance of the historical line of prophecy "which cannot be broken", and he recognized the higher will of God in it all, and came to realize, perhaps with John's help that indeed he was the seed who would crush the head of the serpent of the duality of the knowledge of good and evil, by functioning as Isaiah's "son of man" unto a suffering triumph, and John saw the same thing, and they were cousins and Essenes.

I always wondered what happened to Jesus in the intervening years, and how it came about that here he suddenly walks onto the scene wham a ready made master - who trained him?

I do not believe for a moment that he was a carpenter, or that he was even raised in his native land, no he made a return, through his friend and cousin John, and walked onto the scene a fully self-realized master, already, as if from nowhere (three wise men from the orient..). No doubt Jesus studied the Torah very hard, and remained absolutely pure during that entire period of his life, all in preparation.. woah! What a historical revelation that is indeed!

It isn't miraculous that Jesus fulfilled prophecy to a T, that's not proof of Jesus' divine conception, only Jesus' own awareness and realization as to his true identity, and upon his return, he intentionally and with full awareness of what he was doing, set about to do just that, knowing the whole of the framework of the prophecy like the back of his hand.

But he did not return as Jesus of Nazareth. Not, he returned as an already fully enlightened Buddhist master or Bodhisatva, who then, instead of obtaining release from all suffering, willingly and consciously took it all upon himself fo the sake of and in service to the principal of God as love made manifest.

What an extraordinary thing, particularly givne the somewhat dysfunctional familial background from which he sprang "in the flesh".

"Behold, woman, I make all things new!"

OMG, that's just too much to take within this newfound frame of reference and understanding. Look mom I make all things virgin..

Oh Jesus how I love you.

There's none like you and no one who compares. You did it! For real.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

Man, I wish you could come and sit around my kitchen table with me and my sisters one Friday night!!!

Originally posted by satron

Originally posted by GmoS719
reply to post by satron

 

God's attributes are not borrowed. False god's attributes are borrowed from the one true God.
He was here first. It just took us a while to get it right.

edit on 2-12-2011 by GmoS719 because: (no reason given)

Us, meaning Christians who wanted to mold God into their visions of what God should entail. Jesus was the light of the world, if you asked a Christian, or read the Bible. I can guarantee you that Jesus wasn't the first deity to use hijack the notion that light will triumph over darkness. Light vs Darkness dichotomy predates the Bible.

Quetzalcoatl, for instance.

No Christian input on that. At all.

Originally posted by lucifuge
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

No what is a narrow viewpoint is that out of the Trillions and Trillions of Stars and Galaxies in our Universe a Supreme Being in charge of it all would actually give a crap about this little piece of rock and it's inhabitants. It's human ego to think we are so special.

And what about my question about Good Firday and Easter Sunday being on different days every year?

And what about the thousand of other books written about Jesus and his life that were disposed of by Emporer Constatine to get his 66 books?

Yes those boooks were discarded and the Bible rewritten and toyed with, no doubt.

As to the human being and life on earth, and the central position of the spirit of the universe within the human being?

For starters, we live in a non-local, holgraphic univerese..

"The last shall be the first and the first, last."

Don't assume. Please?

Originally posted by jennybee35
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

Man, I wish you could come and sit around my kitchen table with me and my sisters one Friday night!!!

Better bring lots of kleenex..

reply to post by NewAgeMan

Yeah, we spend a lot of time squalling, being ashamed, amazed, stunned and awed, grateful and speechless!!! The whole gamut every time!

It is too wonderful to hear from another 'truth-seeker' that is actually willing to hear the truth as it comes directly from the Holy Spirit!!!

reply to post by jennybee35

There's a sad part in this involving the Roman Catholic Church, who made of what was given as a heavenly gate, a gate of hell, or a gate of the duality of heaven and hell, so they always come up on top regardless of which side of the fence they're playing at any given historical moment. That's not the all-good frame of refernece, and then there is the secreted truth, and so what do we see but raping and pillaging, and empire, with Jesus on a cross, simply placed upon the obelisc of every prior religion known to man, all in order to rule the world for a thousand years (and more), based on ignorance, lies, and all manner of overt and covert manipulation, in the name of Jesus, his authority removed, presumably while he was on the cross, and as he remains on the cross. Not good, not a happy visualization, but this is the world that they gave us, the temple priests, and since they've obviously dropped the ball, now it moves to you and me, having been released from the stained glass bottle of the church.

I grew up around the church, and I had the key, so me and my buddies could go in there and sneak around, climb the steeple and poke around in dark corners, maybe very little has changed!

It all makes sense now, including the deification of Mary and the images of Jesus with near blond hair and blue eyes. They know. It was even in the Queen's speech at Christmas a few years back, in which she pointed to the "shut out" nature of Jesus' birth. She knew and was making a point of mocking Jesus imho.

Sorry people of "high" (low) places, you cannot shut out Jesus any more, nor keep him on a cross at the point of the duality of Christ/anti-Christ, NO!

I have the key, watch me open the door to the true church and let my friends freely enter the domain of eternal life and freedom that Jesus had in mind. Watch, you see it happening even now before your eyes.


Jesus was a Buddhist-Jewish Rabbi/Bodhisatva, with a very controversial birth and upbringing, who was or who became everything he said he was, unto a triumphant suffering, without any loss of integrity.

And You saw it all right here first at ATS!

Here's something from the spirit I've also been given:

When he said, upon the cross "father father why do you forsake me?!", he'd become confused, as there was one, a spirit present taking everything he had away from him and leaving him with absolutely nothing, a spirit that cannot be trusted and which proved itself untrustworthy before an entire observing universe, and then and only then was the great work complete, when the true God of love as the Absolute kicked back in, the one who never forsook him, not at any time. Therefore I say that the Roman Catholic Church may be and is on the wrong side of the historical equation here and has been all along - to the point of generating a rising tide of people for whom anything even remotely "religious" is treated with the utmost scorn, and understandably. They intuit the evil there, and look at the wars, and the division and the strife, and then, also fooled, they then try to tear down Jesus himself, if possible doing away with him once more.. (see this whole thread)

But the gate, the door, it's still available, the very same one, who is Jesus Christ and through him, little old me. C'mon in, let's hang out and party and enjoy koinonia together, and let us praise the name of the Lord for all the right reasons.. that's very precious, very VERY precious indeed.

Let all those with ears to hear, a mind to process with and a heart with which to fathom, hear, think, and love.

God Bless - Merry Christmas!



NAM
Your Brother in Christ (whether you believe or not)

reply to post by colbe


Maybe I was confused by the context of your grammer, but didn't you claim Bishop John S. Spong was an atheist. If so, then that's what I was referring to. If that isn't what you meant then I'll amend my answer to oblige you.
I am not an atheist, nor do I "gamble" my soul on the knowledge (or lack thereof) of others, religious or otherwise. I do believe in a higher power, but it would take me ten lifetimes to explain to you what that means, though I can say that this higher power has no need of worship, nor does it require such human fare. There is no difference between god and the devil, neither is there a difference between god and man. Once you can see beyond the limitations of the idea of "God" you'll begin to understand that our mortal perception of reality is primitive, and it is this archaic belief system that keeps humanity stagnant.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

But the gate, the door, it's still available, the very same one, who is Jesus Christ and through him, little old me. C'mon in, let's hang out and party and enjoy koinonia together, and let us praise the name of the Lord for all the right reasons.. that's very precious.

1 000 000 000% agreement here!


You have given me a whole plateful of food for thought with this post! I have to say that I agree with your beliefs on the Catholic church. Such a shame that people simply refuse to ask for the knowledge that is needed in this age to see past the lies and half-truths that have been perpetuated for millenia......

Originally posted by NewAgeMan

Originally posted by lucifuge
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

And what about the thousand of other books written about Jesus and his life that were disposed of by Emporer Constatine to get his 66 books?

Yes those boooks were discarded and the Bible rewritten and toyed with, no doubt.

I use to get all hung up about the "Lost Books of the Bible" etc. But if you have faith and pray for spiritual knowledge and understanding you will come to the realization that all the arguments posted upon this topic are meaningless. The Father wants to have a relationship with you. All the searching for proof of Jesus or his birthday are really moot. "You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart." Jermiah 29:13
By letting all this baggage stand between you and The Father is detracting from the joy, peace and wisdom of knowing The Father. Like Don Frey said, "Get over it"

Re: The Roman Catholic Church.
What they need to understand is that Jesus didn't forgive the devil, he obliterated that spirit, and turned the tables on it, tricked it with it's own hubris. And it wasn't "God" who impregnated Mary, while the seed of Mary did crush the serpent of the duality of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil that leads to death. Mary ought to be celebrated to a degree I suppose, but not for her womb or as the fleshy infrastructure by which Jesus was concieved and came to birth in physical form - that's the wrong frame of reference.

Looks like the devil tried to work his way back in, by cloaking himself in the garb of the flesh, when it was never about the flesh at all, but the spirit of rebirth from above, from the incorruptible center and source of all life which is all-good, and man at the center as an all-good creation, as the all-good son, that's Jesus, who transcends the duality.

reply to post by Rothbard

I know Jesus and his spirit has shown me these thigns. To know him is to know the father who sent him.

"And as my father has sent me, even so send I you."

You're preaching to the choir.

And all that baggage, the knowledge and recognition that Jesus overcame it all, triumphant, isn't that an essential aspect of the joy?

None of us have had perfect families either...

Reconciliation and atonement is what it's all about, and then there's the perfect love, and the dilemma of the human condition resolved with satisfaction and relief, and that's peace, real peace of the lasting kind.

I'm not focused on the baggage, but that baggage gives it a whole new meaning and significance and makes it much more sympathetic, the love, not less so, and not just an issue of blind faith either, but mutual understanding and therefore koinonia or the type of sharing and communion Jesus had in mind.

"I am the way, the truth and the life. Nobody comes to the father but by me." (all-inclusive statement of invitation).

Originally posted by eight bits
RP

We rarely agree, but you are spot on about this. S&F. The least I can do.


steveknows

But you've been given proof that Jesus was a mortal man. I posted a link to the court outcome of copywrite about those two books and the court ruled that though one book was fiction the historical aspect that Jesus was a man and got Mary pregnant was historical fact.

No. Jesus' sex life was not before the court, so the court did not make a finding on the subject. Even if it had, a judicial finding does not mean that what the finding asserts is true.

The issue before the court was whether the earlier book had made historical fact claims, not whether those claims were true. The book said that Jesus had a child by Mary Magdalene. It happened or it didn't, but either way, the authors of the book get no royalty from anybody who takes their claim at face value. If true, then Jesus and Mary did the work, not the authors.

In a note especially suited to ATS, Random House, MSM with oak leaf clusters, publishes both books. That was something that the judge found as a fact. It is also true.

Of course, being in the news had no effect whatsoever on the sales of either book, and it is utterly inconceivable that this was a "collusive lawsuit," lawyer-speak for a sham to use the courts as a publicity vehicle for both sides to make money.

www.independent.co.uk...

www.imdb.com...

(Compare release date with the date of the judge's ruling.)

RG presents a broad target cross-section. Nevertheless, you missed.

No you're confusing the issue.

HBHG was a book based on scholorary research of documents and historical account which are known to be true. The reason the court findings are relavent is because it aknowledged that the information contained within the book was historical fact which is there for anyone to research which is why they failed to sue Dan Brown because the core of his book, though taken from HBHG, is in fact historical and not subject to copywrite therefore what you seem to be missing the point off is that there are documents and historical accounts that say that Jesus was a mortal man and Mary was pregnant to him which is the core of HBHG and which the court said is historical fact.

So. RG said that the DaVinci code was fiction which is true but the core of the book was taken from the Holy Blood and the Holy Grail book which isn't fiction. It is scholorary research of historical documents and events and tells a different story to the bible. See the historical information that disputes the bible is there for anyone to research. Bible people just don't bother and they get upset when others people do. That's blind faith.

I brought up the court case to show RG that the information in the HBHG is valid. And the only answer in discouting it is "The good book told me so" That's not validation. I know that no matter who presents evidence against what the bible says bible people will keep saying "That's just their opinion. No it's not opinion. A judicial system has said that the information in HBHG is historical fact and it won't say that unless the evidence says so.. SO IT"S HISTORICAL fACT.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
Re: The Birth Of Christ

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by AQuestion

 

Listen, Jesus birth was mired in controversy and overlaid by myth. That they couldn't find a place to give birth might be true and that Mary was found pregnant, that Joseph wan't the father, yet who did not divorce Mary as might be the custom, also true. What would this tell us...

And perhaps the story of the Three Wise Men from the Orient, who "saw his star" might contain imbedded within it, another truth when viewed as an allegory of the myth overlaying his birth.

I think, or stongly suspect, that Jesus left his native land as a boy, went to the far east, and then returned later as a near-30 year old man and re-entered Jewish society through the Essenian sect, and in fact was initiated into the Jewish mysteries via John the Baptist (Jesus' cousin and an Essene), but was already a fully self-realized Bodhisatva by that point.

Connect the dots..

But it doesn't matter who Jesus of Nazareth was or how he came about, what matters is the "birth of Christ" and just who and what he became..

Epiphany!

The bright morning star..

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by AQuestion

 

Think it through, and I don't want to demean Jesus' lineage here, because it's irrelevant to who he was and what he said and did, God bless him, and through him, us.

And Joseph might very well have been given his name in a dream from an angel, and the holy spirit might even have been present at his conception for all we know, as it may be in every case no matter what the circumstances. Just don't ask me to spell this out for you. You'd have to figure it out on your own.

For me this doesn't demean or detract from Jesus one iota, while perhaps creating even more sympathetic understanding, of the boy who went in search of his true fature, and FOUND HIM in God as the Absolute and who then made his return to a waiting John in the wilderness. It's very precious, the truth, better even by far than the myth.


Ok, here's a tip and a possible piece of the puzzle.

Re: the "Three Wise Men" or "Kings" from the Orient (far East)

The three living streams of Taoism/Buddhism are compliments of

Lao Tsu
Confucius
Buddha

time: approx 500 BC.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
Epiphany!

The bright morning star..

Another clarification - by that I don't mean anything re: Lucifer.


Buddha, after 15 years or whatever, of meditating, at last "gave up" and then, with a feeling of impending enlightenment, he sat again, and was said to have seen the morning star, or venus, at the moment of his enlightenment.

As a motif or a symbol, it is the star of enlightenment, what I call the star of "isolate consciousness" (one with everything).

Take it as you will, but I've done my research from every angle and perspective, and this "groks" for me.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan

Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

Dear NewAgeMan,

I have absolutely no idea what your point is. Lets make is easy, did Jesus exist as a real person? Let us at least start with some common ground.

Ok, Let me spell it out.

Mary was a virgin when Joseph married her, but became pregnant, not by him. The society was under Roman oppression. Mary was not convicted of adultery, and Joseph did not divorce her, but stayed with her. Jesus was given the name "God saves" even possibly by a dream Joseph had in which he was instructed also NOT to divorce Mary. When it came time for Jesus, the baby boy, to be born, they were shut out, and were forced to have the birth in a barn. There is but one anecdote about Jesus as a boy, and then nothing until he springs onto the scene later with John the Baptist, his cousin and an Essenian Rabbi with unique understanding and methods. Jesus is then baptised, led into the desert, and returning, having overcome the devil, begins his ministry until his cricifixion on the cross as an atonement for all sin and evil, athough completely innocent and perfect (without having sinned). Three wise men or kings from the Orient supposedly herald his star and offer precious gifts at his "birth", which could mean another birth altogether.

To this day, one of the 12 days of Christmas is in celebration of The Three Wise Men from the East. It is called "Epiphany Sunday".

Deny Ignorance.

Best Regards,

NAM

"Oh Nicodemus, what is born of the flesh is flesh, but what is born of the spirit IS spirit!"

"Behold - woman (mother Mary) I make all things new!" [while carrying the cross]

..man of sorrows...

"We know who OUR father is." (OUCH!)
~ Temple Priests

Then Jesus' mother and brothers came. They stood outside and sent a person in to tell Jesus to come out. Many people were sitting around Jesus. They said to him, "Your mother and brothers are waiting for you outside." Jesus asked, "Who is my mother? Who are my brothers?" Then Jesus looked at those people sitting around him. He said, "These people are my mother and my brothers! My true brother and sister and mother are those people that do the things of God."
~ Mark 3:31-35

"The more that suffering has carved into our being, the more joy we can contain."
~ Kahlil Gibran

The initiator - John the Baptist

John answered them all, "I baptize you with water. But one more powerful than I will come, the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.
~ Luke 3:16

"Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world"
~ John 1:29
en.wikipedia.org...

John the Baptist
by Leonardo Davinci
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/18741ca13533.jpg[/atsimg]

I am aware that this little thesis of mine does not cast the Roman Church in a very favorable light, from a whole host of angles and perspectives - from the time of Constantine to the present day, with Christ on the cross and his authority stolen, the womb of the mother of Jesus glorified in the deification of Mary, who's is demeaned in no way by what I've offered here, and who is blameless and therefore without shame, most certainly not in the son she bore and the prophecy he fulfilled quite literally to a t.

But in the fullness of time and history, there is nothing hidden which is not made known, and since the conversation about Jesus goes on, the triumph, his triumph remains with him, and through him with all who know him and who hear his voice (essential character), the Bridegroom's voice, who being the perfect gentlemen expresses only a non-coersive, unconditional love.

And so the love of Jesus, his true love, is made known throughout the nations, and who can stop love?

There is a woeful misunderstanding expressed here in this thread, about Jesus.

It is also very sad.

But when we are committed to denying ignorance, and are not unwilling to re-investigate free from any sort of contempt prior to investigation, sometimes we discover something that's all good on the other side of the duality of good and evil, something capable of moving us in favor of also having the courage to be true to our highest self who is reborn from above.

Thank you Jesus for your love and for your courage. You will not be forgotten, nor eliminated, nor excluded, hung on a cross while your authority from obediance to the all-good heavenly father of love, is stolen by wicked men and the whore of babyloon and used as a sword by which to slay the saints in the name of empire and a satanic system of might makes right, and of top down domination and submission - one which you stood against, and were crucified relative to.


The criticisms of the church are fair. The criticisms and denails of Jesus Christ, the reborn one, are not at all.

"And as my father first sent me, even so send I you."

Jesus is our brother people. He is simply the most courageous among us.

Read him again, now that some light has been shed on him as a real person, and look to the character there, reading between the lines and underneath the myth.

He deserves our love. He is worthy, trustworthy and true. Worthy is the lamb.

"I am the truth and the life."
~ Jesus (Yeshua)

"I have one commandment. Love one another as I have loved you."

This post was so significant, that I thought it would be good to post it again for anyone who might have missed it.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by Rothbard

 

You're preaching to the choir.

Really, if I am there is a lot of discussion transpiring for all to be in agreement.

And all that baggage, the knowledge and recognition that Jesus overcame it all, triumphant, isn't that an essential aspect of the joy? [quote/]

No, it is not the essential aspect of joy. It just gets in the way.

Reconciliation and atonement [quote/]

Reconciliation yes. Atonement for what? Jesus did that at the cross.

I'm not focused on the baggage, but that baggage gives it a whole new meaning and significance and makes it much more sympathetic, the love, not less so, and not just an issue of blind faith either, but mutual understanding and therefore koinonia or the type of sharing and communion Jesus had in mind.[quote/]

You are apparently focused enough to assign it a whole new meaning and significance. As far as koinonia good luck with that. True Christian fellowship is very rare these days most so called Christians are to busy practicing Churchianity to understand the fellowship that was described in the book of Acts.

edit on 5-12-2011 by Rothbard because: I can not get it right