Hitler Was a Socialist!!!

Originally posted by ANOK

Socialism has free-markets, money and profits (that goes to the workers, as apposed to the 'private owner'). Communism was supposed to be what happened when state socialism created enough wealth to do away with a structured economy, and resources would be free and communally owned. It was the idea that came about after a meeting in London in 1847, when people of many nationalities gathered to discus how to get rid of the ruling capitalist class, and put the working class in control of their own labour. Marx and Engels were at that meeting, and were asked to write a pamphlet outlining the groups ideas. They called it the 'Communist Manifesto'.
...

You see, the above claim made by you is why i know that people like you have no idea of what you are talking about.

Socialism DOES NOT have a free market. How can you have a free market when the government owns all means of production?... The answer is simple...you CAN'T...

The state owns EVERYTHING "in the name of the people of course' and then the state decides how much, and what you MIGHT need...

That is not a "free market system"...

BTW, let's read directly from wikepedia what socialism is and you will all see that even corpocratism/fascism is a socialist economic system.

Socialism /ˈsoʊʃəlɪzəm/ is an economic system characterized by social ownership of the means of production and cooperative management of the economy; or a political philosophy advocating such a system.[1] "Social ownership" may refer to any one of, or a combination of, the following: cooperative enterprises, common ownership, autonomous public ownership or state ownership.[2] As a form of social organization, socialism is based on co-operative social relations and self-management; relatively equal power-relations and the reduction or elimination of hierarchy in the management of economic and political affairs.

en.wikipedia.org...

Does anyone know what a "cooperative enterprise" is?

Let's go back to wikipedia to find out exactly what a "cooperative enterprise" is...

A cooperative (also co-operative or co-op) is a business organization owned and operated by a group of individuals for their mutual benefit.[1] A cooperative is defined by the International Cooperative Alliance's Statement on the Cooperative Identity as "an autonomous association of persons united voluntarily to meet their common economic, social, and cultural needs and aspirations through jointly owned and democratically controlled enterprise".[2] A cooperative may also be defined as a business owned and controlled equally by the people who use its services or by the people who work there. Various aspects regarding cooperative enterprise are the focus of study in the field of cooperative economics.

en.wikipedia.org...

Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy...

So can you all see why fascism is also a SOCIALIST economic system?...

Or are you so hard headed that you will continue to "deny, deny, and deny"?...

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Please allow me...

ANOK will tell you that when the workers own all production there is no need for government which is by definition Anarchy.



Yeah it doesn't make sense to me either. If workers all owned production their would be no supply and demand.

reply to post by thehoneycomb


You need to check again, because they absolutely do have power over you. You just aren't aware because they use the government, that actually illustrates my point that capitalism gone awry is actually worse because it becomes imbedded in the government and is harder to uncover and remove.





Just because you personally aren't aware of it doesn't mean it does not exist and does not happen.
That is our problem in America right now. That is why our country is doing so poorly. Businesses buying into the government via lobbyists and puppet officials.

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


That just looks to me like a liberal orgy.

Maybe you can describe to me what we are seeing here.

Big business in bed with the democrats? Yeah, thats what I see. They called it the "stimulus package"

Originally posted by thehoneycomb

Please allow me...

ANOK will tell you that when the workers own all production there is no need for government which is by definition Anarchy.

Yeah it doesn't make sense to me either. If workers all owned production their would be no supply and demand.

He can claim whatever he wants but it is ALWAYS the same. NO matter how many times truly socialist nations claim that the means of production is owned by the public, who do you think controls that means of production? and who decides what to do with that means of production?... I'll give you a hint. the STATE...

I know Anok, and people like him will NEVER relent in their BELIEF that socialism "is the best thing invented in the world" and "it is the best for the people"... but you know, you would think people like Anok would LEARN from history what really happens to nations, and people who embrace complately socialism. But unfortunatley such people never learn. That is until they find themselves inside a gulag, or an indoctrination camp... Even then there are probably several hard headed people who would still insist that "socialism is the best for the people"...

reply to post by thehoneycomb


I added more for you.
Actually those three examples should be all we need to know to decide that it's time to make a big change.
That is why we no longer have real capitalism, our government is actually, literally owned by corporations. They do rule you, whether you know it or not.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


True, but you can't help wonder if he gets paid the big bucks by the government to do things that are unneeded and highly regulate and hurt business.

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


Did you just ignore the FACTS i provided that show corporations in power, or "corpocratism/fascism" is a SOCIALIST economic system?...

Even wikipedia demonstrates this fact...

Socialism /ˈsoʊʃəlɪzəm/ is an economic system characterized by social ownership of the means of production and cooperative management of the economy; or a political philosophy advocating such a system.[1] "Social ownership" may refer to any one of, or a combination of, the following: cooperative enterprises, common ownership, autonomous public ownership or state ownership.[2] As a form of social organization, socialism is based on co-operative social relations and self-management; relatively equal power-relations and the reduction or elimination of hierarchy in the management of economic and political affairs.

en.wikipedia.org...

Does anyone know what a "cooperative enterprise" is?

Let's go back to wikipedia to find out exactly what a "cooperative enterprise" is...

A cooperative (also co-operative or co-op) is a business organization owned and operated by a group of individuals for their mutual benefit.[1] A cooperative is defined by the International Cooperative Alliance's Statement on the Cooperative Identity as "an autonomous association of persons united voluntarily to meet their common economic, social, and cultural needs and aspirations through jointly owned and democratically controlled enterprise".[2] A cooperative may also be defined as a business owned and controlled equally by the people who use its services or by the people who work there. Various aspects regarding cooperative enterprise are the focus of study in the field of cooperative economics.

en.wikipedia.org...


Uh oh... you think the lightbulb will light in some people? or will their light continue to be dull, or completely dark even in the face of HARD FACTS?...

reply to post by thehoneycomb


No, it happens under every president. We just happen to have a democrat in office when these were made and when people (ows) actually woke up and started protesting.
Of course your right wing propaganda machine wants people to believe the protesters are some how in bed with Obama even though they are outright protesting his administration and what he is doing. The media wants you to think otherwise though. If right wingers and tea partiers knew the truth they would be out there too.

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


Yeah ok, but they are also all liberals and forget the people on the business side, it's the government throwing the money around to promote their agendas and not the other way around.

If you want to find the real truth look up what a oligarchy is.




Socialism and communism and fascism are all closely linked. They are all oligarchies. This is what Russia was and still is China is also one. Nazi Germany was a oligarchy. We must learn from history so we do not repeat it.



America is slowly turning into this also. If you look up one word this year this should be it. It kinda puts things into context.


You also hear the left saying that fascism is the far right of the political spectrum this is not true anarchy is the far right. A political spectrum is how much control the TPTB have over the people. Socialism and fascism sit side by side together and one leads into the other.




They can try to fool the sheep but history is not on there side. They are the true sheep that usher in total control of people and art and education all in the name of what is best for the whole. The funny part is if you ask them most socialist will say they love freedom and that is what they are fighting for.




Also Hitler loved labor unions. He was a man of the people sound familiar?

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Capitalism opened the door for the problems we are facing today.
I don't hate capitalism. I love it, but what we have isn't the good, real capitalism.

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


I think we are all aware of that.

reply to post by thehoneycomb


Not all of them. There are ones in there still from Reagan! That's a long time. If you guys think that the democrats we have today are liberals you are looney tunes. Obama is more right than left. I'm surprised republicans don't love him honestly. If Bush was in office still there would be the same type of Venn diagrams with business men inboth government and their businesses with a little R by their name. If we don't get Ron Paul in office you will get a chance to see those Venn's soon enough.

Originally posted by thehoneycomb
reply to post by GogoVicMorrow

 

Yeah ok, but they are also all liberals and forget the people on the business side, it's the government throwing the money around to promote their agendas and not the other way around.

Don't listen to him. He knows the mayority of the OWS movement are socialists and or outright communists and anarchists. Only a small percentage of people who support Ron Paul went to the OWS protests not thinking it through and because they did not do their homework to find out who these people are...

Some other members and I have shown how leftwing the OWS movement is, even the organizers/partners of this movement are all a who is who list of leftwing organizations and groups.

The OWS camp has gone so far as to adopt socialist/communist logos.





www.lewrockwell.com...


news.anon210.com...


Shame, in the above you can't see the pretty RED words...
occupywallst.org...

Everywhere I look your movement has very similar logos to socialist/communist logos... I wonder why...

Perhaps they have something to do with logos like the following?...

Malaysian socialists clenched-fist logo approved

links.org.au...

Socialist Fist Logos










Soviet Fist

www.neofactionapparel.com...

Yeah, the OWS movement has NOTHING to do with socialism/communism and the desire for a One World Socialist Regime, right?...

In the following thread i even presented proof directly from one of the panphlets of the OWS movement that they organizers/partners are all leftwingers.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by thehoneycomb


Apparently not electric. Although he/she is always pretty grouchy and loves to call people socialists. I am far from a socialist. I am young, but I hope to be a business owner soon. If I can ever afford to.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


You don't know what you are talking about and never have. Oh wow you googled ten or so pictures and expect us to believe it represents a hundred thousand people across the US and millions the world round.

Fact is OWS has done more to out corrupt big business and corrupt Obama than anyone else. They want him out. I know I have been to several protests. I see more people there supporting Paul than supporting anyone else. That is a fact. I have seen it with my own two eyes. That is why I am a libertarian that supports OWS because I actually know what is up. If you could open your eyes and didn't believe everything the news tells you, even as right wing as you are you would support them because you would know the truth, but you would never risk having to have been wrong or having to admit it.

I have never seen those symbols used at an Occupy. The only time they are there is when a little troupe of socialists come marching through and no one pays them any attention.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow

Capitalism opened the door for the problems we are facing today.
I don't hate capitalism. I love it, but what we have isn't the good, real capitalism.

Nope, leftwing policies, and structures like "the Federal Reserve bank", which is a centralized bank, alongside other leftwing policies are the reason why the world is in so much crap right now...

A central banking system, including the IMF (international Monetary Fund), are SOCIALIST systems...

Let me make my point by proving what I am saying with more FACTS...

5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly.

Any idea where the above excerpt comes from?...

It is one of the ten planks of....

Manifesto of the Communist Party
www.anu.edu.au...


Let me add all the Planks of the Communist manifesto, which I had to learn FORCIBLY in Cuba...

1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.

2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.

3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.

4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.

5. Centralization of credit in the banks of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly.

6. Centralization of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the state.

7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state; the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.

8. Equal obligation of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.

9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country.

10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, etc.

You see, CENTRALIZATION of EVERYTHING is part not only of communism, but also of socialism.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


I am against both the IMF and Fed.
I supported Rand and will be supporting Ron.
What is the point you are trying to make, because you know that isn't the only thing causing problems in the U.S.
Just as much if not more is due to the conflict of interest between government and big business. Fact.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow

I am against both the IMF and Fed.
I supported Rand and will be supporting Ron.
What is the point you are trying to make, because you know that isn't the only thing causing problems in the U.S.
Just as much if not more is due to the conflict of interest between government and big business. Fact.

And the fact is that when the corporations are in power, or control a nation through a mutual understanding with those in power that is SOCIALISM, but more commonly known as fascism...