Hitler Was a Socialist!!!

Originally posted by mkgandhas

wikipedia? Seriously,wikipedia can be edited by anyone.And stop acting so silly.Communism is where workers control production and state.Fascism is where corporations ruled by few dictate society.Please explain your arguement better.

BTW, if you don't want to believe wikipedia just do a search with the words "socialism cooperative enterprise" and see what happens...

For example....

Link

Link

The PROUT Worker Cooperatives
By Carla Dickstein, Ph.D.
Cooperative enterprises—worker, consumer, agricultural and credit—form the core of a PROUT economy. The majority of manufacturing and service enterprises are organized as worker cooperatives.
...

Link

That's just a few of them, and there are many.

www.bergonia.org...

www.marxists.org...

I could go on...

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
Do you undertand the difference between a SPIRITUAL/RELIGIOUS life, and a POLITICAL life?...

Do you understand that the two can overlap?
Do you understand that the spiritual/religious life can guide to the political life?
Do you undersand that the political life can be a guide to the spiritual life?
Ask the 1st Christians - their religious life was the law when it came to the poltiical.
Ask the communists .. their political system is law when it comes to religion.
Guess you don't get it ...

The bible, and everything in it is a guide to the SPIRITUAL/RELIGIOUS life of people... It is not a guide to SOCIALISM or ANY political life...

Again .. The bible, and everything in it, is not only a guide to the spiritual, but it is a guide on how to live in general. The ACTS are CLEAR that they lived a life in common ... SOCIALISM ..

This is actually the last straw ...

'The last straw' ... for what? That's an odd thing to say.

AGAIN ... you can't get down on Hitler being a socialist if you don't also get down on the 1st Christians who lived a socialist life. They each had their different motivations for doing so, but the fact remains that they were both SOCIALIST.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Do you understand that the two can overlap?
Do you understand that the spiritual/religious life can guide to the political life?
Do you undersand that the political life can be a guide to the spiritual life?
Ask the 1st Christians - their religious life was the law when it came to the poltiical.
Ask the communists .. their political system is law when it comes to religion.
Guess you don't get it ...

WOW... i guess nobody told you...

communists and other socialist dictatorships have BANNED religions...

POLITICS and RELIGION/SPIRITUALITY ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS... Neither leads to the other...

Life in common, or life in a society does not equal socialism, just like a SOCIAL life or social program does not equal to socialism...

For crying out loud...

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


so cooperative enterprise is fascism or socialism?

What are you trying to say?

And which communist nation did you stay in?

reply to post by FlyersFan


You claim to be so informed yet you show that you don't know anything of what you are arguing about...

The proletariat of today takes the side of socialism, which enlists science in the battle against the fog of religion, and frees the workers from their belief in life after ...

Link

Two radically different messages were being put across to workers. One was that this life “down here” was only important as a preparation for the next life after death which, depending on whether or not you adhered to the precepts of Christianity, would either be eternal bliss or eternal hell-fire. The other - the materialist, socialist view - was that this was the only life we are going to have and that workers should therefore concentrate on making it the best possible; which could only, be done on the basis of the common ownership and democratic control of the means of living. This - socialism - was what they, should be striving for rather than preparing themselves for some non-existent future life.

www.worldsocialism.org...

Oh yeah socialism/communism are VERY religious...

reply to post by FlyersFan


You really do have deep intellectual leanings. Sadly I could never develop as I had to start earning for my family at young age.

Any ways you are being added to my friends list.

And funny thing about that poster electricuniverse he does not answer my question that whether he believes in God or not while going on making assumptions on others.Its sad and it shows that he is bitter and disillusioned.

Originally posted by mkgandhas

so cooperative enterprise is fascism or socialism?

a political system where businesses are in control of a nation/state is fascism, which is a socialist ideology.

Do you not know that there are many different forms of socialism?... communism is a form of socialism, and according to Marx it is a stage before transforming a capitalist nation into communism through socialism.

Fascism, just like Nazism are both socialist ideologies.

Originally posted by mkgandhas
And which communist nation did you stay in?

I didn't "stay". i was born, lived and experienced life in Cuba. I still have half my family there. And please don't start with the BS that Cuba is not a communist nation...

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Cuba is a strange nation.Very unclean conditions there since the 90's.Too many shanty towns there.Never liked Cuba.But there is good cigar industry there.

Fascism and socialism are total opposites.Again please elaborate on how fascism=socialism.

Originally posted by mkgandhas
...
And funny thing about that poster electricuniverse he does not answer my question that whether he believes in God or not while going on making assumptions on others.Its sad and it shows that he is bitter and disillusioned.

AGAIN, I am not the one trying to use Jesus, God, and the bible to promote political BS...

I KNOW that neither Jesus, God, or the bible are socialist.

The time I lived in Spain, 1980-1989, I was in a Catholic group known as Opus Dei, and there they taught us, and made us learn the bible, among other things. So I know very well that the bible, God, and Jesus are NOT socialist...

None of them are trying to make us strive to a POLITICAL life...but rather a SPIRITUAL/RELIGIOUS life...

Originally posted by mkgandhas

Fascism and socialism are total opposites.Again please elaborate on how fascism=socialism.

WOW... I actually posted PROOF in favor for my argument, all you are doing is claiming "it is not so"...

How is fascism = socialism?.... Because "cooperative enterprise/businesses/corporations" can be in control of a socialist nation, which makes fascism socialist.

It is not that hard to understand. That is unless you are trying to save an idea that has only brought death and suffering to the world...

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Okay I see Opus Dei? Weren't they the guys in Dan Brown's who brainwashed and murdered people? What is Opus Dei?

I asked a simple question : do you believe in God? You haven't answered that question. I am not talking socialism of God or politics.A simple Question.

Originally posted by thehoneycomb
reply to post by madhatr137

 

Ok anti-communist I can understand as they opposed the communist force of Russia, however I can not seem to find anywhere that he was anti-marxist and opposed the system we know as socialism today. Nazi Germany was text book socialism, I beg you to show me how it was any different.

Actually it was very right wing, not left wing, Hitler abused the term socialism to disrupt any form of revolt and at the same time suckering in any would-have-been socialists under a big lie.

Nationalism is also considered very right wing too... If anything his party was like an extreme American republican party - since those people also hate marxists, communists , socialists.....

Hitler was VERY right wing and simply mocked the left wing.

Originally posted by mkgandhas
Okay I see Opus Dei? Weren't they the guys in Dan Brown's who brainwashed and murdered people? What is Opus Dei?

I don't know who Dan Brown is, but time that i spent in Opus Dei i never saw any form of brainwashing... You could stop going any time you wanted to. I also NEVER saw any kid getting sexually abused. In fact, being in Opus Dei was one of the best things that happened to me in Spain.

Originally posted by mkgandhas
I asked a simple question : do you believe in God? You haven't answered that question. I am not talking socialism of God or politics.A simple Question.

I am not going to derail the topic at hand... AGAIN... and AGAIN I am not the one trying to use God, Jesus and religion to spout some POLITICAL BS... simple answer...

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


politics and nationalism has brought only death and destruction to the world.Look at what British empire did in India atleast 150-220 million died directly due to british genocide and deliberate starvation and there are estimates that british were responsible for 1.8 billion deaths due to their policy of starvation and genocide.Politics and politicians are always corrupt.Socialism,capitalism,fascism,humanism all the ism's and even religion are all corrupt.

Man should know God and peace .that is the way to exit from this illusion.Understand that you achieve liberation from birth and death.

As for fascism=socialism,again your arguements make no sense.Please give detailed explanation.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


okay because from what I read in Dan Brown's novels,it seemed that Opus Dei were mass murderous freaks.So you are a Jesuit?

And when did I say socialism=God. I have asked a simple question: do you believe in God? Please answer this.

reply to post by mr-lizard


simply some of posters say that socialism=fascism.Such arguements fox me.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by mkgandhas

Fascism and socialism are total opposites.Again please elaborate on how fascism=socialism.

WOW... I actually posted PROOF in favor for my argument, all you are doing is claiming "it is not so"...

How is fascism = socialism?.... Because "cooperative enterprise/businesses/corporations" can be in control of a socialist nation, which makes fascism socialist.

It is not that hard to understand. That is unless you are trying to save an idea that has only brought death and suffering to the world...

Hi - have some proof.

The ONLY similarities between socialism and fascism are the ideals of a centralised government, this is the only factor - the attitudes of a socialist society is much different to that of a fascist society.
Socialism eradicates class, whilst fascism embraces class. Socialism can evoke concern for small business , fascism supports state-side corporations.

www.3quarksdaily.com...

That link should educate you slightly.

Originally posted by mr-lizard


Hi - have some proof.

The ONLY similarities between socialism and fascism are the ideals of a centralised government, this is the only factor - the attitudes of a socialist society is much different to that of a fascist society.
Socialism eradicates class, whilst fascism embraces class. Socialism can evoke concern for small business , fascism supports state-side corporations.

www.3quarksdaily.com...

That link should educate you slightly.

That is no proof, and that link educates no one... Anyone can create a program and claim whatever they want to...

BTW, your PROOF is to claim that because there are differences in fascism and other socialist ideologies that they are not thbranches of socialism?...

First of all, of course they are not EXACTLY the same... It is why they have DIFFERENT names for each branch of socialism/communism....

What you are claiming then I guess then means that national socialism/communism are not socialism/communism neither?...

Your proof is what makes no sense...

There are DIFFERENT branches of socialism just becaus ethey have DIFFERENCES... otherwise they wouldn't be DIFFERENT branches of socialism/communism...

Seriously, you guys need to think a bit more...

reply to post by mr-lizard


Centralized totalitarian government is a very big thing to have in common. Right wing and left wing are both terms from the French revolution and are both socialist. Saying the NAZIs are right wing doesnot remove them from the socialist sphere of government types.

Socialism is always totalitarian, every one is included and everything about each individual is derived from the state. In fascism some regulations eminate from corporations, in Soviet Communism some regulations eminate from the party-- either way there are more regulations in a state that seeks to control everything about a citizens economic and political life.

BTW, this excerpt shows CLEARLY why NAzi Germany was SOCIALIST.

The basis of the claim that Nazi Germany was capitalist was the fact that most industries in Nazi Germany appeared to be left in private hands.

What Mises identified was that private ownership of the means of production existed in name only under the Nazis and that the actual substance of ownership of the means of production resided in the German government. For it was the German government and not the nominal private owners that exercised all of the substantive powers of ownership: it, not the nominal private owners, decided what was to be produced, in what quantity, by what methods, and to whom it was to be distributed, as well as what prices would be charged and what wages would be paid, and what dividends or other income the nominal private owners would be permitted to receive. The position of the alleged private owners, Mises showed, was reduced essentially to that of government pensioners.

De facto government ownership of the means of production, as Mises termed it, was logically implied by such fundamental collectivist principles embraced by the Nazis as that the common good comes before the private good and the individual exists as a means to the ends of the State. If the individual is a means to the ends of the State, so too, of course, is his property. Just as he is owned by the State, his property is also owned by the State.
...

mises.org...

I have already posted what Hitler himself, and his people said about Nazi Germany, and it ALL proves it to be a socialist system...

They didn't call it National SOCIALISM just to make it look good...