US/China and Pakistan. No False Flag needed!

Originally posted by Jay-morris

Originally posted by BRITWARRIOR

Originally posted by Jay-morris

Originally posted by Fractured.Facade
You ever wonder what if?

-Warning highly speculative-

China and Pakistan together covertly aided Al Qaeda and the Taliban in orchestrating attacks on the west, and on US and coalition forces in the wars that followed. and even in providing safe-haven for key leaders and figures in both groups, all while Pakistan played the role of an ally in the war on terrorism.

Everyone knows there was many things wrong with 9/11.... Well, what if?

Nah, it's too far fetched, to far out there to even go further on ATS with it.

Lets not go there, and just say we did, once upon a time.

China covertly aided Al Qaeda and the Taliban in orchestrating attacks on the west? What a complete load of rubbish! I guess the next thing people will be saying is china is Al Qaeda lol You people should start thinking for yourselves and realise that your governments are playing you, playing all of us.

edit on 26-11-2011 by Jay-morris because: (no reason given)

Well i don't know, quite abit adds up here, don't you think?

Iran fund & aid the Taliban (arms) and also trains & fund Hezbullah to attack Israel,

Pakistan aids & funds the Taliban

Russia is close allies with Iran

China is close allies with all the above including north korea



Now we have our conspiracy to fight your conspiracy's/propaganda

Yeah, so China are giving money to the same terrorists that have caused a few problems in China, including killings and bombings. Yeah, you have great logic there. Why don't the uk fund the IRA lol

Why not the US is in Pakistan LOL


Different factions its very confusing my friend,


PS im not saying this is the case, i'm just saying its easy to make up propaganda & lies, and its easier to get fools to believe in such things, just like the US/west is evil BS

Nobody helps the world out more then the western world/counties, in aid etc etc etc, nobody else attempts to sort out world issue, in fact most of them attempt to make things worst, if you have the means to do so the i believe you should try and help out & when necessary intervene, of course this can easy be turned around and interpreted as aggression by your enemies & those who want the thrown, its happen throughout our history, if nothing is done about it and those whose have the mean to help stand by idle and let these things happen nothing changes, the world remain the same s**t hole it was yesterday,

unfortunately people like to change things around and saying its all for profit & Oil, sure there is profit involved, otherwise it just wouldn't work at all, the west has its enemies and haters, and they will spread as much BS as possible to make it look and sound bad, because they want to be in that boat, SIMPLE... you say you come on here to stop BS & propaganda yet you have fallen hook line & sinker for it yourself i find that funny sorry

Originally posted by Jay-morris
No, people , leader, whatever killed them people, not commusism. Thats what people just can't see. They have been brainwashed at such a young age that they just go with the flow and say communism is evil. All governments are capable of terrible things, and thats because of the people running or in charge of these governments.

Thank you for clarifying your stance on the other points but, this bit here still irritates me to no end...

People are not brainwashed when they hear real life stories of the brutal nature that those PEOPLE/LEADERS under Communism carried out to maintain control of the "Collective"

Originally posted by ownbestenemy

Originally posted by Jay-morris
Well, this site is also here for peole like me to shut these fear proaganda people up, or at least tell them why they are wrong. Popele just want china to be bad, to be evil. Maybe because it makes them feel better about their own country going down the drain. Governments have a way of brainwashing their people to believe this and that about other countries, and the sad thing is, it works. Just like communism is evil and bad BS. At the end of te day, communism is not bad or evil, people are bad or evil..

I want to get on with the discussion and debate at hand that Slayer has presented but feel the need to address this and your other quips you have provided us Jay:

You do know you are getting pissed off and angry over someone who gave a clear disclaimer that what they were saying was "highly speculative" right? Then for some reason you have since then gone on a crusade to "shut these fear propaganda people up" and "tell them why they are wrong. (though you haven't done the latter and only have worked on shouting down speculation and opposing opinion and thought).

Sadly, you couldn't refute or discuss why they were wrong and possibly fold such discussion into this topic. The geo-political scene is not some clear black n' white chalk board or Risk board game where the lines and armies are clearly defined.

Back room deals, arms pacts, defensive pacts, treaties; we know only the surface and what ever happens to either be pushed out for propaganda purposes or is leaked out (most likely intentionally). There really is no way to know if China was or wasn't involved -- hence the highly speculative disclaimer made before the poster went down the rabbit-hole.

Also, sticking your head in the sand about the known atrocities that take place under Communist rule shows a very naive understanding of the world and history. While you are correct that it was the leaders of those nations that were the ultimate evil, their evil was facilitated by the Iron Fist of Communist rule.

Do you think if the People of North Korea were able to speak freely, the press was able to report what they saw, and the People were able to make their own choices would still live in such destitute and oppressiveness? Kim Jung Ill maybe the leader oppressing but it is only facilitated by the structure of his Government.

----

Okay, I strayed a bit. Now to follow some links and read up on some fun United China-Stan threesome.

Im sorry, but i have been on this site for a while, and you learn that all this propaganda crap is just that, crap! Esp when it comes to China. There have been how many threads on china isn the last three months alone. From china invading usa to all chinese people are evil because a few do horrible things to animals. So yes, i believe that most people on this site don't have a clue when they write their fear propaganda, hence the reason why many of them never repy to my posts.

As for communism, you are wrong. Its the leaders and the people. You think non communism countries have not done bad things? I think its just more easy to hide your wrong doings when you are not a communist country,

So, like i said before, if you are a bad person, you are a bad person, be it communist or not.

reply to post by BRITWARRIOR

Why not the US is in Pakistan LOL


Different factions its very confusing my friend,


PS im not saying this is the case, i'm just saying its easy to make up propaganda & lies, and its easier to get fools to believe in such things, just like the US/west is evil BS

Nobody helps the world out more then the western world/counties, in aid etc etc etc, nobody else attempts to sort out world issue, in fact most of them attempt to make things worst, if you have the means to do so the i believe you should try and help out & when necessary intervene, of course this can easy be turned around and interpreted as aggression by your enemies & those who want the thrown, its happen throughout our history, if nothing is done about it and those whose have the mean to help stand by idle and let these things happen nothing changes, the world remain the same s**t hole it was yesterday,

unfortunately people like to change things around and saying its all for profit & Oil, sure there is profit involved, otherwise it just wouldn't work at all, the west has its enemies and haters, and they will spread as much BS as possible to make it look and sound bad, because they want to be in that boat, SIMPLE... you say you come on here to stop BS & propaganda yet you have fallen hook line & sinker for it yourself i find that funny sorry

So, you think we went into iraq for the good of the people, the wellbeing of the people, and get rid of saddem? Apart from the fact that iraq is a far worse place now before we invaded iraq, why have we not gone and done the same thing to other countries that need our help like Korea? Why does it alwasy seem to be the middle east?hhhmmmm

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by Jay-morris
No, people , leader, whatever killed them people, not commusism. Thats what people just can't see. They have been brainwashed at such a young age that they just go with the flow and say communism is evil. All governments are capable of terrible things, and thats because of the people running or in charge of these governments.

Thank you for clarifying your stance on the other points but, this bit here still irritates me to no end...

People are not brainwashed when they hear real life stories of the brutal nature that those PEOPLE/LEADERS under Communism carried out to maintain control of the "Collective"

Originally posted by Jay-morris
Have you been to China? I have actually spoken to people on this site that actually believe that China is like north korea, with not many westerners living there, which is complete BS. To hold china commusim up against communism china 30 years ago is wrong. I know China is not perfect, but compared to 30 years ago, its a damn site better.

Not to get any further OFF topic.

Where did I say ANYWHERE that China is still like that? Or that they are anything like North Korea presently? I clarified my statement by saying "Red China Under Mao" Come on man, I expected a better argument than that from you.

Having said that, I noticed you completely bypassed the truth about how things are under Communism in the real world. China is now Capitalists and North Korea...Well, I'll let you defend them...

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by Jay-morris
Have you been to China? I have actually spoken to people on this site that actually believe that China is like north korea, with not many westerners living there, which is complete BS. To hold china commusim up against communism china 30 years ago is wrong. I know China is not perfect, but compared to 30 years ago, its a damn site better.

Not to get any further OFF topic.

Where did I say ANYWHERE that China is still like that? Or that they are anything like North Korea presently? I clarified my statement by saying "Red China Under Mao" Come on man, I expected a better argument than that from you.

Having said that, I noticed you completely bypassed the truth about how things are under Communism in the real world. China is now Capitalists and North Korea...Well, I'll let you defend them...

edit on 26-11-2011 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)

No, china is still a communist country. And China have got where they are today, as a communist country. Yes, its been a rocky road, and still is, but why does it always go back to Mao when people talk about communist China, and not the China that has improved greatly under communist rule?

My argument is, that communism is not evil or bad, people are evil or bad. Take the uk and america, their governments have done terrible things, their not communist. Like i said, its people.

If America suddenly became a communist country, does that mean they are going to start killing their own people and doing terrible things? No, it does not, but if they have leaders that are not very nice people, bad people, then they will, communist or not communist.

Pakistan stops NATO supplies after raid kills up to 28

(Reuters) - NATO helicopters and fighter jets attacked two military outposts in northwest Pakistan Saturday, killing as many as 28 troops and plunging U.S.-Pakistan relations deeper into crisis.

Latest news concerning that attack by NATO helicopters. This will cut approximately half of the supplies that are utilized in Afghanistan by allied forces. Question is, what else will we see Pakistan do because of this.

Originally posted by ownbestenemy
Pakistan stops NATO supplies after raid kills up to 28

(Reuters) - NATO helicopters and fighter jets attacked two military outposts in northwest Pakistan Saturday, killing as many as 28 troops and plunging U.S.-Pakistan relations deeper into crisis.

Latest news concerning that attack by NATO helicopters. This will cut approximately half of the supplies that are utilized in Afghanistan by allied forces. Question is, what else will we see Pakistan do because of this.

Thats Pakistans business. The US has been supplying throughRussia as well, including military equipment and supplies.

reply to post by ownbestenemy


I saw that earlier.

So in the last 48 hours: India has broken off talks with China on border issues and Pakistan and halted supply lines...

reply to post by Jay-morris



Jay China has completely changed their stance away from True Communism like they had been since 1947. Mao would have a cerebral hemorrhage if he saw what they have allowed [Which I'll agree isn't a bad thing] but to say they are still "Communists" in the true sense is not facing reality..

They have mercantilism which is only a breath away from outright capitalism.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by ownbestenemy

 

I saw that earlier.

So in the last 48 hours: India has broken off talks with China on border issues and Pakistan and halted supply lines...

Though such action has taken place before -- but not under such tensions of relations between the United States and Pakistan. I do though find it rather interesting this was buried deep within the article....

The committee decided to ask the United States to vacate, within 15 days, the Shamsi Air Base...

----

X this is NATOs business, not Pakistani.

Pakistan is a vital land route for nearly half of NATO supplies shipped overland to its troops in Afghanistan, a NATO spokesman said. Land shipments account for about two thirds of the alliance's cargo shipments into Afghanistan.

reply to post by Xcathdra


reply to post by ownbestenemy


Has the White house responded yet?
I haven't seen anything on the wires yet.

Pakistan demands U.S. vacate suspected drone base

The Pakistani government has demanded the U.S. vacate an air base within 15 days that the CIA is suspected of using for unmanned drones.

Islamabad outlined the demand in a statement it sent to reporters following an emergency defense committee meeting chaired by Pakistani Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani.

What happens if the US says no?

reply to post by Vitchilo



They'll send Hillary first to try and stabilize the situation first. [It was a mistake] etc etc etc.

Meanwhile IMO, the chopper pilots probably had some level of justification. I know that sounds like I'm making an excuse but a border out post is very obvious especially to a chopper pilot.

There had to be some reason to open fire...

reply to post by SLAYER69


Last time Pakistan told the US to get the hell out, the US told them to suck it...

Pakistan to US : get the hell out of our country. US : No

Pakistan at this point should just surround the military base, arrest everyone in it and throw them out forcefully if they are not gone in 15 days.

reply to post by SLAYER69

There had to be some reason to open fire...

``Suspected militants`` probably...or the post was linked to Talibans operating in Afghanistan...

Or the military post took ``potshots`` at the helicopters with Ak-47s so they just launched everything they had at them... Overreaction.

Well I'm sure we'll be treated to a whole host of opposing and conflicting details about the incident over the next couple of days as this drama plays out.

Stay tuned as always.

Originally posted by Jay-morris
reply to post by BRITWARRIOR

 

Why not the US is in Pakistan LOL


Different factions its very confusing my friend,


PS im not saying this is the case, i'm just saying its easy to make up propaganda & lies, and its easier to get fools to believe in such things, just like the US/west is evil BS

Nobody helps the world out more then the western world/counties, in aid etc etc etc, nobody else attempts to sort out world issue, in fact most of them attempt to make things worst, if you have the means to do so the i believe you should try and help out & when necessary intervene, of course this can easy be turned around and interpreted as aggression by your enemies & those who want the thrown, its happen throughout our history, if nothing is done about it and those whose have the mean to help stand by idle and let these things happen nothing changes, the world remain the same s**t hole it was yesterday,

unfortunately people like to change things around and saying its all for profit & Oil, sure there is profit involved, otherwise it just wouldn't work at all, the west has its enemies and haters, and they will spread as much BS as possible to make it look and sound bad, because they want to be in that boat, SIMPLE... you say you come on here to stop BS & propaganda yet you have fallen hook line & sinker for it yourself i find that funny sorry

So, you think we went into iraq for the good of the people, the wellbeing of the people, and get rid of saddem? Apart from the fact that iraq is a far worse place now before we invaded iraq, why have we not gone and done the same thing to other countries that need our help like Korea? Why does it alwasy seem to be the middle east?hhhmmmm

Oh yeah thats right, the middle east was a very stable place before Iraq wasn't it, so was afganistan before 2001 the middle east was and alway has always been a very unstable place you fool, perfect breading ground for people with such extremist views to emerge, I'm not going to deny Oil helped pay some bills, but if your suggesting the whole thing was just about an oil grab maybe you need to look at the price of petrol at your local pump or the state of the economy

Not to mention Israel being located there and being attacked from all sides over the past 30yrs who is a close allied country, why always the middle east hmmmm?

Not to mention those extremist group who started murdering innocent civillians on our streets, that hail from the peaceful nation of Afghanistan, hmm why always the middle east?

perhaps you could point out a more troubled spot on the globe for me? just so we can get an idea of "hmmm why always the middle east"

Look at all the protest that are happening YET AGAIN HMM WHY ONLY IN THE MIDDLE EAST???

Why? i don't understand why all these people are protesting in the middle east THIS MUST BE DUE TO OIL, there more oil there and there more protest there & suicide bombers daily yearly milleniumly in the middle east because its peaceful & has lots of oil,

Is Oil the solution to everything ?

Now.. Korea, apart from the obvious what are you pointing out about Korea? the US Had 37.000 troops stationed over there last time i checked its been drastically reduced today for obvious reason,


One thing i notice with all you oil grabbing conspiracy theorists is you only EVER mention Iraq, anything else then you set about to figuer out how oil could be involved LOL

So what about THE FIRST GULF WAR? OIL? OIL? or did they just bomb them the first time make piece the then come up with a cunning plan to blow up there own people in order to go back and take the OIL? hmmm more hmmms

Ok what about these war/operation OIL RESOURCES TO ?

Yemen?

Afghanistan ?

Libya ?

Sierra Leone ?

Kosovo ?

Northern Ireland?

Vietnam ?

All other wars /operations which i can't be bothered to list? has every war in the past 100 years been about oil?




When are you people going to realise every war/operation has its own very unique reasoning & agenda behind it, in your little world every war there has ever been has been about OIL, next you will be telling me the crusades was about oil, get a grip,

reply to post by BRITWARRIOR


I still fail to understand the middle east for oil argument since the US obtains the bulk of our poil from non middl east sources. Canada is first, and venezuela is second... Only about 25% of US oil imports come from Middle East sources...