US/China and Pakistan. No False Flag needed!

Originally posted by Jay-morris



Im sorry, but iraq was alot more stable when saddam was in charge.

Stable as a Government?

Stable as to human rights?

Stable Saddam?

reply to post by SLAYER69

I noticed you left our Iran's and the Saudi's contribution to the massive civilian deaths and destruction of property by their training, supporting and sponsoring opposing sides in the ongoing sectarian conflict needlessly extending the conflict 4 years or more.

I'll admit Iraq was a bit more stable under Saddam at the point of a barrel that often killed randomly depending on which way the wind blew...

It was alot more stable. Now, Iraq is a complete mess. Im not saying saddam was a saint, but there is more problems in Iraq now, than there ever was before.

Desperate?

Really?

Last time I checked Iran is an irritant. More like a sore on the West's Butt.

They do seem to be looking for an excuse to go into Iran, like they did Iraq. Problem this time, is they have countries like russia and china behind Iran, but i don't think that will stop us

You mean like when the US/East allies stand up to China over disputed territorial waters? Hell, Now Vietnam and the US are on the same side on this one..

Notice anything only slightly out of Whack here?

And countries are now begining to stand up to america, and its puppet countries, including mine. Guess it was only a matter of time before other countries started shouting "enough is enough" and it is happening now.

No, But it helps our South Korean Allie civilian population sleep better at night knowing theirs and US troops are standing watch in case Little Kimmies fantasy land of a workers paradise decides to again try to spreads it's version of heaven South.

Should they be worried about the well being of the north korean people, like they said they were when it came to Iraq? Its all BS. Why don't they help the north korean people who are starving and dying. Is is because they have nothing to gain from it if they do?

Originally posted by sonnny1

Originally posted by Jay-morris



Im sorry, but iraq was alot more stable when saddam was in charge.

Stable as a Government?

Stable as to human rights?

Stable Saddam?

edit on 29-11-2011 by sonnny1 because: (no reason given)

Have you looked at the state of Iraq lately? But you have not Do you know how many countries around the world have dictators and violate human rights? There are many, but the America and its puppets only seem to care for the well being of the middle east peopl lol, ok

reply to post by Jay-morris


Yeah, I have, and currently Iraq is quite a bit more stable than it was under Hussain, and a lot less crazy.

Iraq children are imitating U.S. soldiers, and U.S. soldiers are quite popular there.

We have a large standing Army in S Korea, what more do you want?

However, this doesn't stop the haters from hating.

The U.S. needs to withdraw for awhile, rebuild our own economy. Let China take on larger world leadership powers, and see how well the world likes them. Good luck with that.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by Jay-morris

 

Yeah, I have, and currently Iraq is quite a bit more stable than it was under Hussain, and a lot less crazy.

Iraq children are imitating U.S. soldiers, and U.S. soldiers are quite popular there.

We have a large standing Army in S Korea, what more do you want?

However, this doesn't stop the haters from hating.

The U.S. needs to withdraw for awhile, rebuild our own economy. Let China take on larger world leadership powers, and see how well the world likes them. Good luck with that.

From the BBC

Iraq torture 'worse after Saddam'
The back and legs of an Iraqi who was allegedly tortured by the Iraqi police
Allegations of severe torture have regularly emerged from Iraq
Torture may be worse now in Iraq than under former leader Saddam Hussein, the UN's chief anti-torture expert says.

Manfred Nowak said the situation in Iraq was "out of control", with abuses being committed by security forces, militia groups and anti-US insurgents.

Bodies found in the Baghdad morgue "often bear signs of severe torture", said the human rights office of the UN Assistance Mission in Iraq in a report.

The wounds confirmed reports given by refugees from Iraq, Mr Nowak said.

He told journalists at a briefing in Geneva that he had yet to visit Iraq, but he was able to base his information on autopsies and interviews with Iraqis in neighbouring Jordan.

"What most people tell you is that the situation as far as torture is concerned now in Iraq is totally out of hand," the Austrian law professor said.

"The situation is so bad many people say it is worse than it has been in the times of Saddam Hussein," he added.

Brutal methods

The UN report says detainees' bodies often show signs of beating using electrical cables, wounds in heads and genitals, broken legs and hands, electric and cigarette burns.

Bodies found at the Baghdad mortuary "often bear signs of severe torture including acid-induced injuries and burns caused by chemical substances".

Many bodies have missing skin, broken bones, back, hands and legs, missing eyes, missing teeth and wounds caused by power drills or nails, the UN report says.

Victims come from prisons run by US-led multinational forces as well as by the ministries of interior and defence and private militias, the report said.

The most brutal torture methods were employed by private militias, Mr Nowak told journalists.

The report also says the frequency of sectarian bloodletting means bodies are often found which "bear signs indicating that the victims have been brutally tortured before their extra-judicial execution".

It concludes that torture threatens "the very fabric of the country" as victims exact their own revenge and fuel further violence.

Mr Nowak said he would like to visit Iraq in person, but the current situation would not allow him to prepare an accurate report, because it would not be safe to leave Baghdad's heavily guarded Green Zone where the Iraqi government and US leadership are situated.

Also throw in there the bombs that are going off daily, you have a country that has gone to sh*t. If you think Ieaq is a better place, you are in the minority.

And what makes you think that China wants to invade countries once they become the biggest superpower. You think being a super-power means you have to fight pointless wars while your own economy fails? China have got were they are without going down the american government route, because they don't have too.

reply to post by Jay-morris


That is a report from 2006, and they aren't reporting any bodies being ran through meat grinders as Saddam liked to do, so unsubstantiated rumors from 5 years ago don't prove your point.

Claims that Iraq is worse off than under Saddam is just pure propaganda nonsense.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by Jay-morris

 

That is a report from 2006, and they aren't reporting any bodies being ran through meat grinders as Saddam liked to do, so unsubstantiated rumors from 5 years ago don't prove your point.

Claims that Iraq is worse off than under Saddam is just pure propaganda nonsense.

There not rumours. The fact of the matter is, Iraq has been a complete mess since saddam went. Over the years, it has gotten better, with less deaths, but there are still alot of violence with alot of deaths from inside iraq. I think this year alone there have been 10+ suicide bombers. Also, with the governemnt that seems just as currupt, just like their police that have tourtured thousands of iraq people.

At the end of the day, it was a pointless, illegal war. If that was a country like China that done the same thing as america and its allies, everyone would be saying how evil and bad they are and need to be stopped. The same thing is going to happen to Iran, but this time China and russia are having none of it. I just wish more countries would do the same

reply to post by Jay-morris


You might want to consider that now that groups have been enabled to monitor rights abuses in Iraq, what they are seeing is a light version of the way things were done under Hussein.

The most likely scenario is that the people who were running the police under Hussein are still doing the same jobs, and they are still doing things the way they were done under Hussein, except not nearly as bad as before, as slow improvements suggest. Nothing you have provided shows any evidence that Iraq was better under Hussein, and actually points to just the opposite reality.

In addition, a lot of the problem comes from groups outside of Iraq, sending in people to do terrible things, and you are wrong for blaming the U.S. for the actions of other countries with their own agendas.

Just more proof that the U.S. would be better off washing our hands of this nonsense, and concentrating on making things better here at home.

reply to post by poet1b


Well apparently Pakistan is now threatening to shoot down US Drones if they violate their Airspace.

Stay tuned.

---------------Thread Update--------------

Well here they go again.
Seems like this is a biyearly claim. Chances are that this fall through just like all the rest. I don't think the Pakistani ISI would give up a good thing that easily.

Pakistani Taliban commander: Peace talks under way with government

Islamabad, Pakistan (CNN) -- A Pakistani Taliban commander said a faction of the Taliban in Pakistan's tribal region is holding peace talks with the government.

The Taliban commander said local political officials in the Bajaur district are representing the government in the talks. He asked not to be named because he's not authorized to speak to the media on the matter.

The Taliban in the district of Bajaur is led by Maulvi Faqir Muhammad, the Taliban's deputy chief.

reply to post by Jay-morris

Should they be worried about the well being of the north korean people, like they said they were when it came to Iraq? Its all BS. Why don't they help the north korean people who are starving and dying. Is is because they have nothing to gain from it if they do?

See...

I find that type of reply troubling. On the one hand many are opposed to armed conflict and invasion then on the other turn right around and seem to advocate it when they deem it appropriate.

Nobody said the US/West are worried about the well being of the North Korean people like they are about the Iraqis to the point of invasion. Sure, the situation in North Korea is tragic but that is self inflicted by the North Koreans. The US/West have done well by standing with South Korea and have been worried about South Koreans well being.

Now try this one on for size.

How about China stepping up to the plate and taking care of that mess they helped create in the paradise known as North Korea? Why should the US/West who have helped South Korea grow into one of the strongest economies in the region take that bull by the horns? China has money now and influence. Why are they not pressuring North Korea?

reply to post by SLAYER69


This issue with the muslims in western China has been brewing since the Revolution overthrew Chaing Kai Chek (sp?).

It's only a matter of time 'til it bubbles over. ...and I'll guaran-damn-tee you that it'll be hard-line fundamentalists that will be ramrodding the revolt.

China may want to reconsider it's attempts to star in a bigger international roll... They've their own issues coming home to roost...

reply to post by seagull


This should be no surprise to anybody who has been watching China's two pronged endeavor in their Western Province. One, to build and maintain Oil Pipelines to Central Asia and Two, they are trying to encircle India IMO, their only real up and coming regional economic rival.

Somehow I feel their dealings with the Extremists have been manipulated into a reason to push harder into the region and using it as justification.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by poet1b

 

Well apparently Pakistan is now threatening to shoot down US Drones if they violate their Airspace.

Stay tuned.

We need one of our "special" drones to end up in their hands....

reply to post by Fractured.Facade


Better than a "Downed Pilot" Which was the case previously eh?

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by Fractured.Facade

 

Better than a "Downed Pilot" Which was the case previously eh?

Absolutely.

Lets just hope they take the bait, and can't resist the urge to investigate the technologies.

reply to post by Fractured.Facade


I find it funny that some perceive it as a mission failure. Meanwhile, the craft was "Brought down or failed" over 150 Miles inside Iran.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by Fractured.Facade

 

I find it funny that some perceive it as a mission failure. Meanwhile, the craft was "Brought down or failed" over 150 Miles inside Iran.

Its even more funny, what has been done with it since then.



IMO

reply to post by Fractured.Facade




You mean Iran captured an expendable craft and may try to exploit off the shelf older US tech?
What in heaven will the US do?

Maybe, knowing this possibility they stripped it down and only went with the bare essentials?

Originally posted by poet1b

Claims that Iraq is worse off than under Saddam is just pure propaganda nonsense.

We killed more Kurds than Saddam ever dreamed of. We also gave Turkey the green light to annihilate the Kurds in northern Iraq.

We also violated the Chemical Weapons Convention and bombed the bunkers Iraq had that held those weapons. They were fully declared to the Chemical Weapons Convention. We released those poison gases into Earths atmosphere.

Iran filed a protest to the Convention over us bombing those Chemical Weapon sites and releasing the toxins.

Iraq's currently got a huge problem not only with that, but with the Depleted Uranium that'll poison their land and crack their DNA for thousands of years.

The US military has been running open burn pits over there burning all kinds of waste along with entire trucks, forklifts, plastics.....we've poisoned our troops breathing that in along with Iraq's.

......Iraq was better off under Saddam. He only invaded Kuwait and called them dogs because we came up with the new "cross drilling" method and were drilling from Kuwait.....into Iraq's oil fields by drilling at an angle. We were stealing his oil.

Muslims don't like thieves. His invasion of Kuwait was justified. Poor man swung from a rope and he was innocent.